Dick Harrell drag car (new thread)

[JoeC]

Dick Harrell seems to be a popular subject. He worked with Bill Thomas, Nickey, Yenko, Fred Gibb, and others. here is an early pic of Dick getting some air under the front wheels. The FX drag cars looked "funny" with their altered wheel base and this started the Funny Car class.
http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/harrellwhelie2.jpg

[JoeC]

Here is a pic I posted before. It is an early SS Camaro small block 427 conversion. I think it started out as a Harrell/Nickey/Thomas car then became a Harrell/Yenko

http://members.aol.com/chevelleyenko/images/yenko67.jpg

[Stefano]

Sixtiesmuscle,
Is this the 'Garfinlke' Camaro that you were refering to?

Joe C,
Thanks for the pictures.

[IRONCLAD]

Joe,

I have always like the early Novas and had a 1965 SS with a 6 cylinder many years ago. It took a long time to find another one with a V-8 (283 Four-Door car). I swapped the engine, restored the car and enjoyed racing the unsuspected competion back then.

However, relating to the FX cars, I had always wanted to put a 327/360 Fuel Injection engine in mine (like the FX cars) but it was cost prohibitive at the time to purchase a Fuelie engine.

Rumor has it that this set-up in a Nova could beat the Vette. I would have like to see that. Thanks for pic and the memories.

[JoeC]

Mike Garfinkel had some type of deal to run this car with the Harrell Yenko name. Mike was an AHRA points champion in a Pontiac the year before. Not sure who owned the car.

[Stefano]

There are some interesting pictures in the 'Super Stock Drag Racing the Family sedan'.

Such as the fastback Bill Thomas Chevy II on page 156.

Dick Harrell lined up against a Richard Petty sponsored 10.0 sec Barracuda on page 150.

Lots of Harrell pics ect...

[JoeC]

here is a story about Dick H. from the draglist.com web site. Libby refers to a "genuine Z-16 Chevelle" that Dick had but I think it was really a early 64 Chevelle that Dick bought and dropped in his Z-11 427 motor in. I saw this car in Dick's scrap book when on display at the SCR when Dick's daughter was there.

"I first met Dick Harrell at Wes Jerde's speed shop in Kansas City in about early 1967. But I had seen him match racing at the Kansas City "old strip" (where the second NHRA Nationals were held). He ran a '63 Z-11, a '64 or '65 Chevy II with a Z-11 motor, and one of only two genuine Z-16 '65 Chevelles I have ever seen. That was the first of the 396 Chevelles, but I believe it had a 427 in it at the time. I am not sure this was his car (I never asked him), but he had it there just the same.

When Dick moved to Kansas City later that year to start his Dick Harrell Performance Center, I was offered a job there. I was on layoff at the time and jumped at it. I stayed there until late 1969. In that time I put a lot of 427s in a lot of Camaros, Chevy IIs ('68s were Chevy IIs and '69s became Novas), and a few Chevelles. (Read it in SS&DI July Œ68).

We also did a lot of custom machine work and built more than a few race cars, like Fred Gibb's ZL-1 Pro Stocker, for instance. I have often wondered what happened to that. I think it was the #1 ZL-1. I left Dick when he was getting ready to move the shop to Mission Kansas. This is a story about one of my experiences during that time (summer Œ68).

I had been racing my AHRA B/HR Œ55 Chevy at Kansas City the Saturday night all this started. Dick had a match race in Pittsburgh, Kansas, with the "old car" (his recently reacquired '67 Camaro) while Charlie Therwhanger had the "new car" (Dick's '68 flopper Camaro) in Union Grove (Great Lakes Dragway) at the "Olympics of Drag Racing." I got home about midnight from the drag strip and shortly after that the phone rings.

Dick says, "I need you to help me. Charlie has torn up the motor and I have the motor out of the old car now. I need you and Norm (I cannot remember his last name) to take it to him and help put it in the car so we can race tomorrow." I said, "No problem Dick. Be right there."

Well, making a long story short, we drove like a bat out of hell all night and got to the "HO-JOs" in Kenosha, Wisconsin, about 8:30 Sunday morning. Sure enough, there was Charlie and Jerry (Stanger, I think) waiting for us. We set the motor in the car and I went to the room to take a shower and catch a few winks. Guess what? In the shower/bathtub, Charlie had overhauled the tranny the previous night! BIG mess! I went to get some breakfast instead.

At breakfast, I overheard other racers talking. Word was "Harrell's car is broke. Guess one of us will get a single first round." I looked around to see who was talking and it was the Jungle man himself talking to someone. (I donÃt remember who.) Just as I was finishing my coffee, Charlie fired the car in the parking lot. That got a LOT of attention, including the local cops, but it all worked out OK. Charlie had a good line of BS.

Needless to say, we got to the races on time. Charlie won the first round but lost second round to... I cannot remember who -- Schumacher's Stardust Cuda or maybe the Ramchargers car -- I am not sure. (Wonder why I can't remember? It has only been 32 years ago! HA!)

I crashed so hard I really don't remember the ride home, but the memory of the trip will never fade. Wish I knew whatever happened to or where Therwhanger is now. I would like to talk to him again. I still miss Dick and will never be able to thank him for all the memories I have, but I thought I would share this one with you.

Dave Libby

[Denis]

Here's a photo of the boys pulling out ZL1 #1's transmission in the Holiday Inn parking lot:

http://www.1967z28.com/fredgibb/holiday-t.jpg

[JoeC]

Here is a part of a Tommy McNeely interview also from the draglist web site

"It was a time much different from today when "Sunday! “ Sunday! “ SUNDAY!" radio ads screamed of Ford against Chevy and Dodge against Pontiac. Tact and tactics were not part of getting paying customers through the gates and after all, early FX/FC races were slightly more of a circus act than spectators were used to. All the extraneous stuff was fun for the fans -- pie fights, putting on fire suits right out front, rosin, burnouts, and radio and PA shouting matches. Nobody wanted to lose or they didn't get paid as much or asked to go to more races. But the show was a huge part too.
There were times when a car was outclassed by its competition so the driver threw lead or cylinder heads in the trunk and went into big wheelstands -- the spectacular action of the wheelstand drew our attention away from a better performance. The "loser" ended up being the winner because he gained more ink and fans. It was exciting to watch.
"And scary too some times but we were too young to know the difference. I was 19 when I got the Falcon. I refer to Dickie and Hubert a lot because they were probably my greatest mentors at the time. One of the first things Dickie taught me was if you know you're going to lose, load the trunk and put it on the back bumper"

[Stefano]

There is also a picture ,in the mentioned book of Dick Harrell's 'Good Guys' 64 Chevelle running an 'old' Z11 430hp 427 (He must have pulled it from his '62 race car). Sponsorship on the car is by Bill Allen enterprises.

[copo9566aa]

1969 ZL1 Harrell With just Ray Sullins script on the paint scheme.
http://communities.fr.msn.ca/BornForStreetRacing/photos.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=280

[Edited by copo9566aa (05-01-2002 at 01:18 PM).]

[Edited by copo9566aa (05-01-2002 at 01:19 PM).]

[Denis]

http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/yenko.net/69Zl1Harell(5).jpg

[68TopStock]

Another shot of Ray Sullins with the #1 ZL1

http://www.1967z28.com/fredgibb/gibb48.jpg

[JoeC]

Nice Pictures thanks for posting
More Dick Harrel


http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/harrelyenkofc2.jpg

http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/harrell69camaro2.jpg

[JoeC]

http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/harrellfc4.jpg

[JoeC]

This is a picture of a picture in Dick Harrell's scrap book. Probably one of the first Chevelles to hit the drag strip and it had a 427 but a 1963 Z-11 not a MK IV. The BB Chevy wasn't in production yet.

http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/harrell64c.jpg

[T Billigen]

Did'nt the ZL1 get damaged a few years ago on tne way to Indy Super Chevy? If I remember correctly it caught fire on the trailer. I remember them backing it off and there was extensive fire damage. Something broke on the trailer's suspension causing the fire.

[68TopStock]

T Billigen,

Here is how the #1 ZL1 looks today, it was re-restored after the 1991 trailer fire by Bill Porterfield. Shot was taken at the 2000 Fred Gibb Memorial Car Show in LaHarpe, Il. First time Fred's racecars were ever in front of the dealership together. He sold "Little Hoss" on November 6, 1968 to make room for the #1 ZL1 delivered on December 31, 1968.

http://www.1967z28.com/fredgibb/gibb2000/dealer%20both.jpg

[T Billigen]

Looks good as new! Neat picture!

[copo9566aa]

This is the same ZL1 #1's with Leatherman(Larry Leatherman) lettering on the Yenko Logo or another ???



[Edited by copo9566aa (05-09-2002 at 01:53 PM).]

[JChlupsa]

Nice write up in the Dec 1989 Car Craft Mag on the #1 ZL1 with a centerfold pic of it. Esp like the valve covers stamped Offenhauser with the Dick Harrell cast emblems on them. Just wondering were the DH emblems cast into the covers or where they attached with fastners.

[68TopStock]

copo9566aa and others,

I have a pic of the 69 car, lower photo that JoeC posted above. It reads "Super John" on the rear 1/4's with the Dick Harrell crest on the door. I am not sure which car this is, or if it is a ZL1. Anyone care to comment? My file of the pic is too big to attach.

[copo9566aa]

68TopStock
You can send me the pic and i will resize it for you.
That doesn`t say anything to me "Super John"

[68TopStock]

Here is a pic of a Dick Harrell sponsored car, driver was "Super John", same car as JoeC posted above. The wheels are the "Bad Ones" made by Kelsey Hayes. Dick and Fred agreed to put them on their cars in 1970 for a Kelsey Hayes marketing program.

[copo9566aa]

Another pic of Gibb/Harrell Camaro ,but '70 with RS (Front end)The wheels look the same "Bad Bones".
Thanks 68TopStock for the info.

[68TopStock]

The above is the Gibb/Harrell GT-2 racer that was raced along with Kim's 70ZL1 ProStock in 1970. I have a pic of it in an advertisement. I'll try and find it and post. This is one of the cars that needs to be found and brought back to life. I know very little about it at this time, and have just started researching it.

[copo9566aa]

I found an old classified ads in a old magazine dated July 1973,with a Dick Harrell 70 Camaro for sale by John.B
("Super John" 70 Camaro ???)

[copo9566aa]

I found another article with a GT2 1967 Harrell/Dunlap Camaro
in HP-Cars Sept 1971
"Cool info" about Dick Harrell car lettering
(Katy Neff of Kansas
City did the expert lettering. Now,
many of you may be wondering if
Katy is a girl, and let us tell you that
she most definitely is. This very
talented, young lady has done the let-
tering for several years on some of
the prettiest cars in the country, in-
cluding all of Dick Harrell's cars ) /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[hotrodchev]

Wow... you guys really have an interesting thread going here! Whaddya say we keep it going and add another photo for discussion! Here's a rare photo of Dick Harrell's short lived Chevy II at Minnesota Dragways in 1968. Based on what I've read, Harrell had high hopes for this machine but it never performed as expected, so it was raced only a short time before it was retired. Anybody care to comment or add any further information about this car? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks,
Tim "Hotrodchev"
1968 Nova SS
1968 Chevelle SS
1969 Chevelle SS
1972 Cheyenne Super SWB

[68TopStock]

hotrodchev,

Welcome Tim! You found me out here in cyberworld with the rest of the fanatics. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif This thread is one I hope will lead to a pic of every Harrell and Gibb sponsored car that raced.

Tim, you know how to downsize pics to fit, send more.

Come on the rest of you guys, lets anty up some more pics.

[hotrodchev]

Hi Ken,

Here are a couple more photo's I acquired taken at Minnesota Dragways in 1969 with "Boemler" featured as the sponsor. Maybe you would be so kind to comment on these photo's for me as I'm not real familiar with this sponsor myself. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Thanks,
Tim "Hotrodchev"

[hotrodchev]

Here's the second pic. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

Tim "Hotrodchev"

[68TopStock]

This is Jim Kirby's 68 bodied funnycar. It was originally painted gold in early 1968 prior to him being sponsored by Dick Harrell. I have a June of '68 dragworld that says Jim was here in MN with the car, painted gold. It raced against the topless Nova pictured above. The car ended up being rebodied in 1970 with a '70 body, and is supposed to still exist.

This car is also known as the second '68 Harrell funnycar. It was owned by Jim Kirby, and is different than Dicks personal '68 funnycar. Later in the year it was painted a dark purple or maroon. I think Boemler Chevy was a MO. based dealer. The name has only been seen on this car. It apparently only had one tank in the front for gas, as Dick's had 2 moon tanks for fuel and H20. I think I have this straight. Tom, do you care to comment?

[sYc]

I do not have a lot of info on Dick's steel bodied cars but have spent hours researching Dick's 'glass cars. Dick's first FC is actually an "altered" wheelbase car, a 1967 Camaro which will have the Yenko shield on the side. Square tube frame, metal body with fiberglass doors, front clip, trunk lid, etc. This car first ran injectors, then went blown. The car is being restored up North. Dick's second FC is a full fiberglass, flip top style 1968 Camaro. This car was painted at least 3 times, red w/black top, all red and red? with the gold leaf. Most pictures show the car with the Courtesy Chevrolet shield on the side. This car ran a blown big block. It is owned and being restored by the Yenko Sportscar Club. The second '68 FC is the Kirby car. This car was used by Dick to help him fullfil his many race committments. This car ran both injectors and a blower. A couple of years ago Jim still owned the car. Not for sure about the body(what year). Going on magazine articles, I had thought that there may have been a 3rd '68, but have been assured by Dave Libby (who worked for Dick) that there were only the two. Dick's 1969 FC is the much photographed Gibb Camaro, which matched the paint scheme on the '69 ZL-1, red? with gold lace. It is owned by Dick's daughter Valerie. I have heard reports of a possible 2nd '69, or at least part of one, but this may be rumor. In the fall of 1971 Dick was killed in his 1970/71 Camaro FC, which was cut up and buried in a land fill in KC. There was also a DH Vega during this time, which the where abouts is unknown. Tom

[copolocater]

69 funnycar-looks like a duck talks like a duck could it be?Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[whitetop]

Tim
Not sure where your body came from but the frame is probably homemade or made in the '80's or '90's. Some '69 F/C from that era besides Harrel was Mike Burkhart, Bob Steakly, Dale Chevrolet Super Hugger among many others. I just looked at some pics and all three of the above body's were identical including the Harrell car body.
Even if you take off all the updated rollcage tubes per NHRA specs, it is still not an early design. The Harrell '69 chassis was all round tube, front to rear, even the main bottom tubes. The firewall forward section for instance had 2 parallel tubes, one on top of the other about 10 inches apart running horizontaly to the front. I sold a mag on Ebay about 10 months ago with the Harrell '69 F/C and made a copy of the article for the second highest bidder and remember how the tube frame was configured-compared it to a Harrell F/C model kit for sale on ebay and was curious how close the model was.
Dave

[copolocater]

Dave we already know about the chassis its the body and sheetmetal work thats similar to Dicks.I never thought it was Dicks but the info I've received from68\30 Steve and Ratpack I'm not counting anything out it had to be somebodys.Its a stock body with sheetmetal work identical to Dicks 70 camaro thats the concern.Don Hardy couldn't give me a diffinative no that he didn't do it but he didn't give me a yes either.We are in the process of trying to figure out if there could be some relation to Dick.Either way it's a neat piece of history.

[whitetop]

Tim check on the inside of the rear trunk. I have a picture of the rear 3/4 shot of the Harrell car and it has a short spoiler molded onto the rear. Looks like your rear spoiler was bolted on. The spoiler I'm looking at is very short and does not wrap around the body. It is not bolted on.
This Nova shot I'm attaching says the frame/suspension was designed and set up by Dick Harrell but the frame was actually built by Don Hardy. The Harrell '69 frame was near identical to this one for reference.
Dave

[copolocater]

Dave both myself and Ratpack checked the spoiler area out.The current spoiler has been added.The area where the the spoiler is now looks to have been repaired at one time.Don't know if that means anything but we had assumed with that repair it could have possibly had a molded spoiler.

[68TopStock]

copolocator,

You need to find a Hardy chassis for your body. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Have you made any measurements, and compared them to Dick's and others bodies? What is the wheelbase? Just curious.

[copolocater]

Ken haven't done anything since I put it up for sale.When you get into these funnycars its a 50/50 thing.Theres a couple people telling me I have something and a couple people telling me no.I'm selling while I'm even. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif If you would like to know anything let me know on PM board I'll get you the info .I accept it for what it is updated chassis original 69 body.

[whitetop]

Tim
Post a free wanted ad on www.drag.race-cars.com (http://www.drag.race-cars.com) for the Hardy chassis. Lots of vintage stuff is either for sale or wanted on that site.
Dave

[copolocater]

Ken wheelbase is about 118" wheel center to wheelcenter.Thanks Dave

[copo9566aa]

Picture of 68 Camaro F/C (Steve Bovan)Blair's Speed Shop.

[copo9566aa]

And the gold 68 F/C with Fastback (Style Charger roof).

[hotrodchev]

For anyone interested- Here are some original Dick Harrell photographs I found posted on the Webshots.com website. Very interesting!

Go to these links:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/3382755/3382790OqFuUvwzEe

http://community.webshots.com/photo/3382755/3382799jFAvhhbWcz

http://community.webshots.com/photo/3382755/14853055UakGaMFwTF

http://community.webshots.com/photo/52016892/52017511hEbhDg

http://community.webshots.com/photo/52016892/52017425KbBSHf

http://community.webshots.com/photo/49747919/49827045oxKZaY

[copo9566aa]

Thanks Hotrodchev
For anyone interested 4 pics of the 69 Cut-away display Camaro.
on the album (Car Shows Of The Past).

[JoeC]

nice pictures. I have a 67-69 Camaro fiberglass trunk lid made by AI Fiberglass. It has painted on the spoiler "they call me the breeze" and the name "COOK" is visible on the top but faded off. It was held on by 4 zuse fittings. I wonder what car it was on.

[JoeC]

here is the tag that is molded in under the resin. It has a 1969 date hand writen on it.

[copolocater]

Ken & Dave got some info last night that the body could have belonged to a guy named Kosty Ivanhoff.Anybody have any pics or info on him?Was he bigtime? Supposidly the car was the same color,stripes(but gold) and same sheetmetal work.P.S. my scoop is an add on.Thanks for any help

[Rat_Pack]

copolocater, what did you do with the pictures I sent you last month of Kosty's car? /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif There were some good pics of the tinwork and body. Call me tomorrow after lunch as I am finally painting my car /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ..................RatPack...........

[moparts]

A couple months ago a friend of mine here in town was telling me about a car he built in the mid 60's. He was working at a small garage in St. Louis and they built a convert. chevy II. Before they got it finished someone bought the car. I showed him this pic and he swears that it is the same car. He is trying to find some more pics that he thinks he has. Small world! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[hotrodchev]

moparts,

It would be great to see the pics if your friend is able to locate them. As I said before, this car never performed as expected and from what I know it was retired after only 1-season. From what I've seen, pics seem to be pretty scarce of this car. I'll look for some other magazine articles I have of this car and try and get them posted here in the near future.

Tim "Hotrodchev"

[moparts]

My friend is looking as well for some more pics. Would like to see anything you can find.

[68TopStock]

The Chevy II roadster funny is the car that was parked in front of Dick's shop in Granite City, just outside of East St. Louis, when Herb Fox first met Dick. This was the summer of 1967. Dick had his '67 Yenko sponsored Camaro funnycar in early August at Beardstown, when he first came to LaHarpe. I know he had the Camaro at the first UDRA meet on June 13, 1967, so it seems he had both during the late spring and summer of 1967, but not the end of the summer.

[Stefano]

Tim,
Who was that Nice Lady telling you that she towed your Funny Car back and forth from the race track at least 150 times? /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[copolocater]

Stef that lady happened to be Nancy Gibb ,Freds daughter.It was great to see how excited she was about the car.Glad you guys were there to treasure the moment!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Something I'll never forget.Did she really say she hauled it 150 times?

[Stefano]

No Tim, she said at least 150 times. Yes,it was a neat Reunion and don't know, even as optomistic as I have been known to be that I could have appreciated the drama unless I had been there to witness it first hand.

Tell us more about the story, I didn't want to intrude on the moment.

[copolocater]

Stef you share the story it might sound egotistical coming from me.It needs your input.She's a super nice lady.Tell the story.There was only a few who were there and I came in late.You were there the whole time.When she came over you should have told her it was yours /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Stefano]

Tim,
I guess I can start with the story as I was sorting through the remainder of your Mr. Norm's Memorabilia with Ricky Smith. Kevin Hand was only a few Radio Flyer Wagon lengths away from us, but focused on closing a Multi Yenko T-Shirt deal. There were quite a few other list members present as well.

She had her finger raised and pointed towards the car as she inquired who it belonged to. I had never met any of the Gibb's, so I didn't know who she was for sure untill you told me. for all I knew it could have been Dick Harrell's daughter or someone else.

I pointed you and your Father out to her and she commented, as she walked over to meet you, that "I have trailered that car at least 150 times back and forth from the race track". She did appear too young to have trailered the car on her own but ,I became aware of what seemed to be taking place. She appeared to be ,almost mezmorized and drawn to the car as she walked towards it.

Once the two of you started talking about the history of the car and looking over the old clues and tell tail signs of its heritage,i just tried to give you some space.

I did hear her say that as far as she and her mother were concerned that they had just found the back-up Dickie Harrell/Fred Gibb funny car.

Please fill us in on what I missed?

[shor]

Stefano, it appears you have lost your "m"

[mr gasser]

Very cool Tim what a nice find. I was glad to be just a couple a cars away when history was found. Im glad I have some pictures of car for Dyno Dom museum. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Stefano]

i think i have the virus, no nn's caps don't work ect ect.

'nnr gasser' has the price of addnnission to the nnuseunn gone up do to the historic event?

tinn,
i did offer to buy the car, fronn your dad while this was taking place, but he turned nne down and said that selling the car would be put on hold for the tinne. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[copolocater]

Nothing against people with viruses but /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif Next time in current english not old world dialect /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif Can't tell it any better than that Stefano.I was in awe as she walked around the car and pointed different items out.Either way it confirmed what some of us thought(Ratpack) that there were two 69s and she confirmed that when she said she was there the day they were both painted.P.S. that radio flyer is currently in our possesion and undergoing a frame off resto.Weren't satisfied with its current condition!! Thanks Dom

[copolocater]

I would like to get something straight before it gets out of hand,I in no way at any time tried to convince Nancy Gibb that this was her fathers funnycar body.She did the convincing.We at no time knowing they were there ask her to take a look at the car,she stumbled across it walking around.I had the car for sale at what I thought was fair market value as a 69 funnycar.My father had an offer for a trade on a supposed NICKEY/BILL THOMAS LA car as Mark Hassett can attest to and another big block 69 camaro.She told us not to sell the car as she walked away.She even felt bad because she felt people were making fun of here over the excitement she showed over the car and I informed her they weren't that they were in awe over what she was saying.We did go over photos and discuss other things as well.She is a very gracious person and we appreciated the time she spent talking to my father,myself and other site members. I accept what Nancy and Mrs. Gibb have to say on this subject.They were there.

[Stefano]

Tim,
I can certainly attest that it was a chance meeting,and she was telling you what you had, whether or not the car was discussed with her by someone else and she was pointed in that direction I do not know.

She didn't seem to mix words when she said that there were definately two cars.

I certainly do not know anything other than what she said.

I hope I didn't offend her, I was after all quite a bit giddy and overwhelmed.

[Mr70]

Tim
It was nice to meet you and put a face to the name at VF.I saw this F/C and enjoyed it as well.Were you able to have her to sign the F/C..If so where did she do it at?

[copolocater]

No Stef nobody offended her she was just excited over the car and didn't want to seem like she felt you guys thought she didn't know what she was talking about.No didn't have her sign the car it was in the afternoon and didn't want to take up alot of her time.I was just excited myself just to be in her presence and have her being so kind to speak to us. She didn't have a full understanding of what was happening when she was speaking.First time I've seen those guys listening instead of talking /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif .Whatever happens I was in the presence of something that you just can't explain.I'll never forget it. I'm humbled

[Belair62]

Congrats Tim. I found the original owner/builder of a 66 GTO funny car I owned. When these folks find out a very dear part of their past is still around after all these years it has quite an affect on them. I also found the original owner of my Y Chevelle ...his wife was nearly in tears..they had no idea the car was still alive after all these years.Same deal with a Super Duty Pontiac I had. The original owner had passed away but the Mrs. talked for an hour about the good times they had ordering and racing that car. Make the family proud and get it painted and lettered again.

[Stefano]

Bob,
Would that be the famous 'Blue Goose' Super Duty.

[Belair62]

Yep Steve...Actually it wasn't real famous. It was a local racer.Original owner went to Mercury after GM shut them down with their official ban on racing in '63.I still have a dash plaque from a benefit held in original owners name sponsored by Beswick.....let the new owner know my number if they would like it.

[Stefano]

I am certain that he would like to have it. The Goose is one of the cornerstones in his Pontiac collection.

[hotrodchev]

Hello copo9566AA,

Interesting ad you posted. Do you or anyone else here have any other information about this car or Mr. Bezdichek? Being from Minnesota myself, I began to wonder if Mr. Bezdichek had run this car out at Minnesota Dragways while he had owned it. Sure enough, after a little investigative work, I ran across Mr. Bezdichek's name listed in a MN. Dragways newsletter dated July 16, 1972. Although the last name is spelled incorrectly, the remainder of the information corresponds with the same information given in the ad that you posted. "J." for John, "N.U" New Ulm, Minnesota, "70 Chev.", etc. See attachment on bottom right hand corner.

Not the most impressive times, but still interesting to read.

Tim "Hotrodchev"
'68 Nova SS
'68 Chevelle SS
'69 Chevelle SS
'72 Cheyenne Super SWB

[copo9566aa]

Hi Tim "Hotrodchev"

Very interesting /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

The ads is from HOT CARS Magazine July 1973
This magazine is published only four times a year(in 1973).

Class 2E/MP MP is for Modified Production but 2E ???.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

That class sounds like an AHRA classification. The Yenko Deuce was AHRA classified as 3EA, I was told that the 3 indicated a type of carb(s), the E was class, the A was automatic. I'm not sure on that 3 definition though, or in this case the 2.

[hotrodchev]

Does this sound more like a Dick Harrell prepared car than one that was actually raced by Harrell? Just curious, are there any known '70 Harrell Camaro's in existance and did these cars receive any other special touches like "Harrell" badging, hood or suspension upgrades besides the typical engine treatments? I need some "ed-ju-ma-ka-shun" please. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

Tim "Hotrodchev"

[menmyfcs]

Copolocater. I haven't seen the pictures of the car I see being posted about how it is a Dick Harrell 69 funny car
or just the body. I know several people who worked for Dick at the time and I also spent a fair amount of time with Dick,and the crew. I have located all but 1 of the people who could shine some real light on it. According to these people, who were more than teenagers at the time, there was only 1 car and 1 body. The car that year did have a few different paint jobs, which would lead people to believe there was more than 1 car.I will send a picture of what was left of the real 69 car as it left the home of Elaine Harrell around this time in 2000. At that time it did belong to Valerie. I wonder if Nancy Gibb could have the cars confused, being that the ZL1 and the F/C were finished close to the same time and painted a lot alike?
There were Camaros Funny cars every where in 68 and 69 Your body could be anyones.I would say there were 100 active cars at the time Kosty Ivanof was on the scene until about 1982.He was from the east coast.Best of luck on your car.

[68TopStock]

This string of posts has been interesting to say the least!

You will notice I performed an edit on copolocators above post. I did this with Tim's permission. I was concerned regarding keeping this post as positive as possible. I care not to comment regarding his funnycar body, as I am not a knowledgeable source for funnycars. As I have stated in the past on this site, I offer to act as a conduit for any information that may help identify Fred Gibb or Dick Harrell cars that members or visitors request assistance with. I only desire the truth be posted on this site, so lets hold off on any judgements. As you have read on the main page, copolocator has signed off, so I do not know if further debate or posts will be acknowleged by him. Hopefully, someday he will rejoin us. I know he has many friends on this site.

Now..........lets get on with the original intention of JoeC when he started this post. I have always been interested in Dick's early cars, does anyone have good quality pics of the 1962 bubbletop 409 or 1963 Z11? Does anyone know what was his very first drag car?

Ken Boje /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[sixtiesmuscle]

I agree with you Ken, however, I think there are too many people who take any opportunity to downplay the authenticity & value of other people's cars. I'm afraid many self proclaimed experts compile information from a variety of sources, some accurate, some not, and, combine it with some urban myth that has been created over time. When presented as confidently as these people do, it comes off as absolute fact. Haven't we learned that when it comes to these cars, there is very little that is "absolute"?

As far as the Harrell funny cars, first there was only one. Then there was a "rumor" of a second. Now, maybe there are three. Maybe the people with the cars that are "verified" are simply protecting their own investment by making claims of exclusivity.
Knowing the time spent by the two Gibb ladies, and, the details they looked for and observed on Tim's car, I think further investigation is justified. To dismiss a car, or at least the body, based on what some people say, perhaps for their own financial gain, isn't fair. Maybe we can wait for all the facts to be discovered before we pass judgement on any of these issues.

[copolocater]

I don't know who you are or where you came from but I see you just registered on the site yesterday.Who called you to let you know this subject was being discussed on this site?I think that you know as does the administrator of this site that there were 2 funnycars if not possibly 3.We have numerous documentation to prove it.You take whatever stance you need to take by whomever sent you to this site but to question the Gibb family you better be able to back yourself up by documentation not by hearsay.We've done that.I've already spoken to a couple of those people they were wrong. Whether this is a car or not isn't the point to us now its the premise.We've been deceived and were not happy.The reason for me leaving this site is because at the reunion I had a conversation with the administrator and a couple in the know that gaurenteed me that there was only 1 car and it was an extended body car that there was no backup.And now Nancy and Mrs. Gibb has informed us there were 2.The administrator of this site sent me a private message letting us know he knows who has the backup car and he feels its not ours.Read again he knows who has the backup car.Why wasn't I told of this when I asked?This information isn't something that needs to be kept secret.I feel betrayed.Again this isn't about ewhether our car is or isn't its about honesty.Every one has looked at videoed pictured and touched our car its been out there. I think we need to start looking the other way.Since there is a backup car that the administrator confirms lets see it.I'm on my way to Daytona to have a good time I've spoken my piece .This isn't about us or our car anymore this needs to go the other direction.P.S.Our car is a stockbody 118" wheelbase car.Valerie has the only extended body Fred Gibb /Dick harrell extended wheelbase car known to exist.You want to investigate tell me her chassis is NOT 118" long .Sorry Ken I'm trying

[shor]

Thank goodness I deleted my post!!!

[mc25t190]

i'm the guy whos was stupid and sold the radio flyer wagon which is currently undergoing a frame off rest, bent axle. i will confirm as i have a picture with gibbs daughter everything i heard and all the details she pointed out for 30-45 minutes, she knew the car like she was currently driving it, every detail. she was in awe! i was on the move with a yenko shirt deal but had no deaf ears. i heard every word she said, and offered to buy the car then. btw, tim , is right here, along with stefano, myself, rick smith, bulah?sp. and tims dad. i know what i heard and could duplicate it along with stefano , rick, and others present. i am in tims corner on this one guys. this lady knew her stuff. there was no way she could explain those details without knowledge, confirmed i heard her say she had towed this car behind a station wagon at least 150 times. i had her sign the flyer wagon and guess what it is worth now. i sold it to cheap. don't take shots without ammo.

[Souperhigh]

Well put Kevin!!!To many times on our neat site some members quickly shoot from the hip without thinking.

[GMH454]

Being from the other side of the world, could someone enlighten me with funny cars what constitites the basis for a restoration, with provenance.
Back in the early 90's when restoring Monte Carlo Rally cars was a big thing there were many versions of the same car, as body shells due to wear and tear were junked several times per season. When these cars were restored many people claimed to be the owner of the "original car ". For Funny Cars does the provenance follow the body or chassis.

[Rat_Pack]

Usually the body is more important as you can always build a chassis. Over a period of years if the car is campaigned in the lower ranks after being out-dated by the sanctioning body due to safety reasons the chassis' are usually changed or modified or even destroyed. However it is nice to have both original items but it is rare unless the car was parked as a whole.......................RatPack............... .

[davenkc]

Ken
The "super john" 69 camaro is John McFadden and yes it is a ZL-1
Dave

[menmyfcs]

First, I would like to say I hope Copolocater rejoins this site, and moreover, I never was trying to anger him. If I were in his shoes I would be upset also. When a person takes the word of others and it's what they want to hear it is very discouraging to hear from another that it is not correct. With all due respect to the Gibbs, I do not think it was fair to make a statement to a person when they were not involved that part of the history - the funny cars were built out of Dick Harrell's shop in Kansas City, not for Fred Gibb Chevrolet. My information comes from the men that worked with Dickie and helped to run the cars. They even stayed at my house. The cars were painted by OOPS, John Fenson. He re-painted the 69 F/C car several times in 69,The SAME body.Made by Fiberglass ltd as were many. As confusing as the Harrell stable was, I could understand the confusion.
In 70 to 71 there was as many as 3 at one time 1 being a Vega. Yes Valeries 69 car was 118in wheel base. If I figure out how to send a few pictures on this site I will do so.
Good nite all hope you had a great thanksgiving

[menmyfcs]

I have heard a lot of statements made in racing and just on TV. I am sure glad I dont believe them all. Maybe I have missed something. This is supposed to be a 69 Dick Harrell funny car. What was she doing towing it behind a wagon when Harrell had a full shop of men to work on His race cars including Ramp turcks and then an 18 wheeler.Some of The Fred Gibb door cars were towed on trailers. Do you have any clue how long it takes to make 150 trips to any where?
I would be suprised in 69 if she was even 16 years old.
On a busy year the car may have made 70 race dates.If Valerie had the 1 car. Who had or has the other.It would be a Don Hardy round tube chassis.Not a square tube car. Now I will ask you.Where is their documentation?

[LVCamaro]

Your approach to "due respect to the Gibbs" is at a minimum curious, and more likely insulting.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I say, where is EVERYBODY'S documentation?? Let the people you refer to identify themselves, and, state what they think they remember. So far, everything else is just hearsay. Why you think one person's recollections are more accurate than another's, I'm not sure. Unless, as you say, it's what you want to hear.
Can't we keep an open mind, and, let the info develop as it will? It could take months to gather,and, we can't settle these issues by jaw-jackin' on this site.

[bkhpah]

The men that built the car would be a good start. The people that had there hands on the car every day would have an idea of what went on then. Dave Libby saw the car at the reunion, what was his impression? Maybe the Gibb's will share their story with the board members?...BKH

Post deleted by yenko

[Stefano]

She did say back and forth to the race track not complete round trips if you want to be accurate. She also didn't say one way or the other that she was the one driving the tow vehicle itself.

She definately ,without question stated per her and her mother that there was a back up car.

For every race date how many test/tune/track rental dates exist ?. It is unlikely to be 1 to 1 for any serious national level race effort of any kind.

[sYc]

My original intent was to keep this duscussion civil and off line. Since neither has happened, I will now go online with what I know.

The car in question is not a new found discovery. It has been making the rounds in the vintage funnycar world for the past 2-3 years, much like Bob Peck amd his cars on this site. It is known as the "Idaho" car. No one associated with vintage funnycars has every felt that the car was one of Dicks. The previous owners had tried many avenues to pawn the car off as being one of Dicks, going as far as offering the sYc a nice commission if we could help them sell the car. We passed. Finally the car was listed on Ebay. As is done on this board when a COPO is listed on Ebay, the car was once again discussed on a couple of vintage funny car sites, again with no one saying it was one of Dick's. Thus, the car sold for much less then what a real DH car would sale for. At the supercar reunion, Dave Libby, who was employed by Dick at this time, stated that the car was not one of Dick's. This was done to a group standing around the memorabilia displays.

To the ones who have blasted menmyfcs, you might want to reconsider, apoligize and stick to steel bodied cars. That gentleman was invited to this board by me, becuase he is the world's leading authority on vintage funnycars, bar none. He is employed by NHRA, moderates a couple of vintage funnycar sites, is very involved in vintage funnycar racing, and most important, was a close frined of Dicks during this time. As Ed Cunneen is to ZL-1s, he is to vintage funnycars.

Now, to the Gibbs. Becuase of the respect I have for the Gibb family, it was very troubling for me when it appeared that I was disputing their word. Thus, though a mutal friend, I sent an apoligy to them. I was told that I might want to visit with them direct. Boy, was I surprised to hear what they had say about the events at Vettefest. Here goes, as told to me by Nancy Gibb, with her mom present.

First, a couple of very important facts. 1. Helen Gibb never examined the FC at Vettefest. She was being interviewed by a TV crew. When she finished the interview, she and Nancy left the show. 2. Nancy was 10 years of age in 1969.

Nancy did not tow the cars 150 times, she was sitting in the back seat of a station wagon with Dick's wife Elaine, as it was being pulled down the return road. She did not see two cars being painted at the same time, she told Tim that there were two cars painted the same, the ZL-1 and Dick's funny car. The mis-quotes go on and on. From the very beginning, she told Tim that the chassis was wrong, and that all she knew about the body was that it was similar to Dick's 1969, except Dick's had an extended front end. She gave Tim several examples of other drivers of the time who also had Camaros. When asked if this could be, or that could be, Nancy said yes, could be, but that she did not know. Nancy nor Helen, have no idea whose car Tim has. Nancy only remembers Dick having one 1969 FC, the one he won the world championship in, which has the extended front end. She did say Dick may have had another one, but had no way of knowing.

I do not know what everyone there heard, but I know what Nancy said happened, and I take her for her word. And you do not have to believe me. Ask any close friend of the Gibb family, or ask Tim. He should have an email from Nancy by now expressing their concerns.

The worst part of the whole situation is this, and it saddens me deeply. Because of the way that their words were turned around, Helen was quoted as saying" I wish that we had never gone to the show(Vettevest). I may never attend another event(except LaHarpe)."

Everyone who has participated in the two threads regarding this matter owe the Gibb family an apoligy. I have already done so, several times over. Tom

[davenkc]

Tom,
I agree with your statment about the disrespect shown to the poster menmyfcs I also know who he is and you are accurate in your description of both his knowledge and the respect he has in the f/c world.
That being said if it would be prudent of me to say, I am one of the few remaining people there is who believes he can pretty accuratly explain the many yes and no of Dicks
funny cars from 67 thru 69 which I have intimate knowledge of. I was there! My knowledge of the 70&71 cars does have a few gaps but I do have a fairly good amount about them as well.
This would be a lenghtly post to do this but I would be glad to do it if there was enough interest. I maybe can once and for all clear up a few mostly unfounded rumors

Dave Libby

[whitetop]

One possible way to get an answer is to sand the body down in an area and see what the base color paint it. Not sure if the body would of been stripped when it was repainted over the years. Then again weight conscious racers might have removed the old paint. I know many old race cars have been discovered or at the same time pointed out as a fake by this method.
Dave

[sYc]

Dave; Glad to have you aboard. And, not only are you welcome to post about what you know, I encourage it. It is people like you, and the Gibb family, folks that were there, who help us sort the BS from the truth.

For those who do not know Dave, he was employed by Dick Harrell in KC. Dave's handsome mug can be seen in a couple of articles that were done on Dick, back in the day. One of them shows Dave working underneath one of Dick's funnycars. Tom

[Stefano]

Dave,
I for one, would certainly like to learn more, especially from a first hand source. I would believe that should be one of the main objectives for a Forum such as this.

[sixtiesmuscle]

If asking for people to identify themselves, and, thereby verify the knowledge base that qualifies them to pass judgement on a car is taken as disrespectful, I apologize. I for one, am thankful that we can hear from those qualified to weigh in. That's what we need in this instance, not "he said- she said".

[menmyfcs]

Thank You Tom and Dave. All though I do love the computer it has its faults. One being that you cannot see a person or hear what is in their voice. What comes off as sarcastic may not be anything like it sounds. When researching some cars that were supposed to be Mickey Thompson cars, I ran into this same issue. I used my full name and was bombarded with a bunch of mail, some not real good. I would never-NEVER want to make the Gibbs feel they did anything wrong. Again my wording was more than likely a bit harsh. Those years were the best of most of the racing communities lives and I am glad for Helen, Nancy and many others that they are having a chance to re-live them and the memories. As I stated, there were funny cars coming out of the woodwork. The wheelbase of the body or car has NO bearing on what was out there. The M/T pinto and mustang were 112" and others were 115". A 68 Camaro F/C I drove had a Camaro body that was 125" wheelbase. It was an experimental time. There were also cars as of today that staggered from side to sided 2 1/2 inches, called an offset frontend.

Tom, just so you know there were several others who that alerted me to the issue of the postings on the Supercar site about the DH/FG funnycar! I have 5 pictures of this car with prices ranging over 100K plus. Initially, a man named Peterson from Boise, Idaho was trying to sell the 69 F/C. He was told by a few racers that it COULD have been one of Dick's cars, however, they were not 100% sure. After talking to those racers, they confirmed that Peterson was told it looked like an old Dick Harrell or Kelly Chadwick body. Peterson took it from there and all he saw was $$$$$. He then tried to get you to sell it, then he located Valerie and last of all trying to find Elaine Harrell. Valerie and I both confirmed to Peterson that it was NOT a DH/FG funnycar. After that, it was probably a good year and half later that the very same car showed up on the eBay, only the decals that Peterson had on it had been removed & all that was remaining on the body was the Candy Apple red paint. So when it comes to old race cars, a duck may not be a duck. It may just look like one and possibly be a turkey. I am sure that Nancy was talking about ZL-1 cars, as they did run and test quite a bit. The earlier cars were lucky to test 6 times a year, they test more now than ever before. In the late 60s they match raced so much
they used them to test. Also, in the late 60s there were only about 8 AHRA events per year, and the funny cars were just getting rcognized by NHRA. Once again no harm was ever meant to anybody. Sincerely Menmyfcs

[copolocater]

This is no longer about my car> I don't care about my car. What I do care about is the authenticity of the other two cars. Dick's extended nose funny car, which was supposed to be the only car had a 125" wheel base. The 118" wheel base fit only under a stock body car! The back up car that Tom relates to...What is it and we would like to see pictures. If we are seeking the truth, let's find it! Within the next week, not after completion of any car. if I am wrong, I will stand up like a man and apologize to EVERYONE!! Agaain, this is not about my car. This is about one car and Tom Clary's back up car, the one I assumed you had....if not you then who!! My car is not a DH car. Now we have that understanding, now let's move on. Information and pictures of BOTH cars please. Let's get to the truth.

[sYc]

Tim; I think the time to apoligize is now. And not only you, but several others, who became involved in something they knew little about. I, for one, am very disappointed in how this all played out on this site. Right now I am ashamed and embarrassed to say that I am part of the current "supercar hobby". Tom

[mc25t190]

i, like , stefano would like to hear from knowledgable people like these new members. nancy never authenticated the car and was just using the number 150 times as a figure of speach and trips to the drag strip. her curiosity was so aroused that the last we saw her she was going to get her mom to see the car, from there? i appreciate the fact there are people with knowledge, me not being one, but was certainly there to here the conversation. i am not making up what i heard and the excitement she shared with us. i like everyone else, sisxties muscles, and others would enjoy the finality of what it is or isn't. when i was there i heard what i heard but never did i say she said it definitely was, she just pointed to numerous items on the car that indicated that it could have been. my apologies to anyone who has taken offense. nancy was very excited , avery nice lady, and spoke with great knowledge that got us all excited about the car. if anyone had heard what we heard it was enough to make anyone reach for there wallet and take a chance. i wasn't the only that was willing to buy it on the spot based on what i heard, again not saying she authenticated the car. the last we saw her she was going after mom.

[sYc]

Tim, I do not have, nor do I know who does, have the second car. I was told by a reliable source a couple of years ago about it. As far as they knew, only a portion of the chassis remained, as the car had been rebodied, maybe to a '70. What I do have is a 1968, which is why I have researched vintage FCs. It is believed to be Dick's Courtesy car, but I am still doing the research. That is one reason Dave Libby was at the reunion. He had some pictures for me. Tom

[Charley Lillard]

Perhaps the owner of the backup car does not want any info on the car released to the Public. Or maybe it is being kept quiet because of possible purchase. If I knew where it was I don't think I would post that info on any Web site as it would most certainly hurt my chances of owning it. I don't think we need proof of the backup car to settle this dispute.. I would also like to thank the Gibbs for coming to Vettefest and thankyou Helen for signing my cars. My ZL1 wasn't sold at Gibb but it wouldn't exist if not for Freds efforts. Helen is sharp as a Tack and traveled by Train to come to the show. I do Hope that what has transpired here does not deter them from coming to future shows.

[moparts]

"I have heard reports of a possible 2nd '69, or at least part of one, but this may be rumor." (Tom Clary)

"69 funnycar-looks like a duck talks like a duck could it be?" (copolocator)

"This is about one car and Tom Clary's back up car, the one I assumed you had...."(copolocator)

Assumed Ass....out....of.....u....and.....me... (don't remember who said it but it was a good line in a movie)

[mc25t190]

charlie,
very well put!

[sYc]

"My car is not a DH car. Now we have that understanding, now let's move on. " Copolocater

Now that we have that settled, and the bandwagon is almost empty, I am headed to my shop to sand on a Nova. Tom

[davenkc]

Tom and all

I will try to explain the existance of both 68 f/c as I know it.
Dick's 68 car in it's ORIGNAL configuration was a new construction by Don Hardy painted the same as the 67 (ie)
Chevy red with a black spray on vinyl top later it lost the black top when it was repainted a different shade of red overall. side note this was done after the plan to have 4 cars with the red/black combo, The car that Ken Bojie has now being one Dick f/c, a Chevelle formula stock and a camaro prostock. That didn't happen hence the 1st repaint.
Again after a short time it was repainted to the red/orange/burgandy combo most remember best. fast forward to end of season that car was sold to John McFadden, exactly how it moved from him to who you got it from is just not in the bank of info of what I know. After all that happened 1500 miles away. Going Back to mid year when the repossed 67 car was sold (67 will be explained in my next post) Dick made a deal with Jim Kirby to use his car to replace what the now sold 67 car had beem doing. As you Tom have mentioned it was a 68 Hardy car but inj.only Painted gold.Otherwise it was a near twin to Dick's car. It was painted by my brother a sort of plum color and we changed it over to a blown combination. (the loan of the car deal)
There is a picture of this car already posted early on in this thread so no need to post it again. It is the one with Dick's name on the Quarter panel and Jim Kirby on the front fender. BTY That is me and my older brother in that pic.
After all concerned grew tired of that plum color (it really was not very pretty). It was again painted red with a sort of beige/gold lace not too unlike what the 69 was patterned after. I have seen a picture of this paint job also in this thread. The clue is the name Jim Kirby on the front fender. RUMOR has it that Jim still has this car but that is as I say RUMOR. It is in my opinion that this is a moot point anyway no matter WHO has it if in fact it does still exist because it is NOT a Dick Harrell car! only one he used for a short time. It is a Jim Kirby car. Charlie drove it mostly anyway.
I am going to attempt to attach a picture of the above mentioned "Kirby car" with Charlie driving racing the 68 SuperCuda. I sincerly hope this will clear some of the fog around this matter.
Dave Libby

[sixtiesmuscle]

Dave, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I still have a question though. If Dick built [or had built] and drove a car, even for a little while, and, it carried his name, how is it not a Dick Harrell car? Is the protocol in funny cars to consider the car to be only one that was driven by the last driver?

As far as being embarrassed, Tom, come on. There have been alot more hostile discussions on this site before this. Let's not forget, these are JUST CARS!! The truth always comes out, EVENTUALLY, and we have to acknowledge that there are monetary motivations behind many of our dealings. I agree, a bit more civility and respect is appropriate, but, sometimes a good honest argument is what it takes to hear all sides.
I admit my interests are more in stock & superstock race cars, so, maybe it's different in the funny car world. As one member stated recently, we need edumacation. Mike Guarise

[davenkc]

Mike
Good question I will try to explain why my view is as it is.
The car in question (the 68 kirby car) was built by Don Hardy for Jim Kirby (of ST.Louis MO) and delivered in what form I have no idea maybe complete maybe a roller with body mounted but none the less to him.. hence his car.
As I memtioned a deal was made for Dick to use the car for a period of time for no fee. In exchange for this Dick
or to be absolutly correct we (his shop) would change it over to a blown combination. Even then this was no small expense. After the agreed time was up the car returned to Jim as it was (blown)and he ran it I believe on the UDRA mostly. I have heard that after Dick died Jim sanded the Harrell paint job off of it and it was last seen in primer
in an undisclosed location in St.Louis area.
Again this is my opinion but thanks for the question.

Dave.

[mc25t190]

its all over now baby blue, quote "grateful dead", former bob dylan tune.
mike,
i must agree! see attachment!

[copolocater]

I apologize. Now, answer this question and I'm done. Is the 69 F/C Valerie has an extended nose 125" wheel base or is it a 118" stock bodied wheel base? Simple question!

[sYc]

Mike, you can make light of the subject if you want, that is your business. I agree, we have had numerous heated discussions on this board, but none that involved as many innoocent people as this. Folks who until a couple days ago did not even know this sight existed. This one was more then JUST about cars. People's integrity, including mine, were questioned. That bothers me. Especially when it is, as you say, monetary motivated. Tom

[mc25t190]

see attachment

[sYc]

Dave, about 5 years ago I spoke with Jim Kirby on the phone about his car. He still had it, parked in either his or his dad's basement, I do not remember which. He told me it was complete, ready to race. He stated that it no longer carried the DH paint scheme. It was changed after Dick's death. At the time of our visit, the car was for sale, as Jim was into Harleys. No one seems to know if he still has it. Tom

[davenkc]

Tim
Look at the attachment on my post I did earlier today of the "Kirby car". This is the fabled 68 back up car it is a near twin to Tom's car including the w/b 118 inches. Not 110 as a real 68 camaro. for a point of reference look at the distance from the door line to the front wheel also the position of the rear wheel in relation to the sail panel and I can assure you this car is 118 inch wheel base.
I reality I had occasion to actually measure the wheel base of the 69 car and it was 120 on the left side and 118 on the right side. Understand this was done to give the car more "roll out" in the starting beams. If it is must know info as to how/why I did such a thing I can explain but it is a long story involving suspension tricks and not relevant
to the matter at hand.
The true fate of Dick's 69 car is known to me however I will not disclose that is is only for Valerie to do so if she desires and I dont think she needs to do that.
I also have pics of the 69 car w/date on them taken in summer 2000 but will not post them without her permission.
Its location was known to me as late as summer 2001.

Dave

[davenkc]

Tom
I remember our conversation. I was only trying to be somewhat vague about where/what happend with that car
because as you say nobody seems to be able find out if he still has it or not.I am firm in the belief that although Dick & Charlie drove it it is still not a Dick Harrell car
because I believe you have the one and only true Dick Harrell 68 f/c.
best to you
Dave

[68TopStock]

davenkc, menmyfcs, Tom, Tim, and all board members,

I am glad to see this open, honest discussion, and hope friendships endure and we all understand this is
only about cars. They are material items, and just that.

I sincerely hope Nancy and Helen are not hurt by what has gone on in this post, as I cherish their friendship. I also respect the knowledge and heritage new members such as menmyfcs and davenkc bring to this forum.

Ken Boje

ps: davenkc, SuperJohn really was super! /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[menmyfcs]

This forum is now getting down to a discussion that sounds worth sticking with. As for the wheelbase on the 69, this was verified today by a person that made a dolly under the car to help transport it to to a safe location. It is as I said and as Dave states, 118 and 120 a standard practice still today for more roll out on the lights. The builder just moves the body to try and get all the wheel wells to match. As of late, the bodies are made with the wheel well staggered. Maybe the 125 inch cars Dick had were some of the door cars. You can tell them real easy. They almost look bent in the middle.
This is normally what my take has been on what makes the car a ligit Harrell car. Was it built for him? No. Jim Kirby has a Don Hardy built car made for and owned by Jim Kirby, not a Dick Harrell owned car. Just a car he borrowed. Again, Dave is correct-Charlie Therwanger drove it most of the time as a fill in. Also, what is a back up car? In most cases it is a car to run if the other is crashed or being repainted. There was not one in 69 according to shop and crew personel. If Kenny Bernstein borrowed a car from John Force for a few races, and won one of them. It would just be the car Kenny won that race in and still be a John Force car. Not a Kenny Bernstein car! I hope this all makes sense.
Menmyfcs

[sYc]

Dave; My car has a staggered front end, but not for roll out. When we went to re-install it, things did not go so well. As simple as it looks, it is not easy (at least for us rookies) to get it back square under the car. You may have to explain to us how to set it. Working on the fiberglass beast has been a real learning experience. And I have not even tried to figure out the workings of a magneto fired, blown/injected big block Chevy yet. Tom

[davenkc]

Tom
I will give this a shot. The first thing you need to do is verify that the rear end is square to the chassis in its mounting this is a must. If I know Hardy like I think I do there is a centerline scribed somewhere, probably on the bottom that you can work from.You can adjust the trailing arms to make this happen. Please tell me you replaced all those hiem joints if not now is the time. With that done the rear end and centerline will be your reference. Now to the front end, I am not certain your car was offset w/b but it is a very good possibility.There may be a slight difference in the length of the front end radius rods.again check all those hiem joints, very important! Using your rear end as a reference adjust the front end to bring it into line with your preferences either square or offset somewhat. Given what the destiny of your car most likely wil be square or very close will suffice.
As far as a startup tune up goes I would suggest you contact menmyfcs for a safe ballpark tune up. He as you know is one of the foremost nitro/tuner/crew chief who really does know his engines and is vastly more up to date than me. I would only suggest for you in the event you actually make maybe a half pass with it, I am sure you have no intention of a b**** out run with it, to keep the timeing set NO more than 23 degrees (static with no advance capabilities (ie) locked out mag) and NOT more than 55% nitro.
An iron block & head chevy although likes more than that it is very likely to have a short life (ie crack cyl wall& blown out combustion chambers) Aluminum blocks and heads of today are far better than the old castings and will take MUCH more. Reminds, me it would seem we would get new cyl heads from Mondello very often. Charlie loved to "tip the can" the old 10 10 &10 (old racer jargon) meanind 10% on the blower,10 degrees more lead and 10% more nitro.

On another subject I believe we have thrashed the subject of Dick's 68 funny car enough, I plan to post version of the past/present of the 67 car tomorrow sometime with pics. The much talked about 69 car I have many pic of I am going to get a couple of together and post that next week.
Thanks to you for the fine welcome to this forum.
You can't imagine how bad I want to see my old friend...
your car again. Best of luck hope I helped you even if only a little bit.
Dave

[sYc]

Dave, Great, I thought all of the radius rods were the same length. Back to the drawing board. As of yet, we have not replaced the joints, but will once we do the final assembly. Engine wise, we are set up to run alcohol, not nitro.

As per runnning the car, a lot depends on where it ends up and who has it. I have had several interesting offers, including a big time museum, someone wanting to put it on the Nostalgia FC circuit and one just wanting it to display it at numerous shows and race events. If I do keep it, I do not intend to race it, but would like to see it do a burnout or two. At this time, I do not anticipate the car being sold, mostly because of sentimental reasons and what I have associated with the car. Original DH t-shirt and patch, check made out to Ed Pink racing from DH Racing, signed by Dick, and my most cherished momento, a DH business card, removed from the billfold Dick had in his pocket at the time of death. Holding that billfold sent chills down my spine. I am sure you know where the items came from. That person is close to both of us.

Maybe someday there can be a reunion of known Harrell and Gibb/Harrell race cars. Dick's '67, '68 and '69 FCs, ZL-1 #1, Kim's '70 Gibb Camaro and Lil Hoss. The ulitimate tribute to Dick and Fred.

[davenkc]

Tom
Please consider keeping that car as I am confident you will take it to places it can be seen by the many fans of Dick.
There are more of them than most of us can imagine.

On the car note I said there MAY be a difference in those rods maybe not. measure and see if there is a difference,
it may be slight as to where the front shock mounts are located from say.. the very front of the top chassis tube back to the mount. If they are square chances are car is/was setup to be square and procede accordingly.
Engine wise ok on alky safer fuel but there is no other sound like a chevy on nitro... even a small % (25or30) makes a unforgettable sound. Best luck.

I have made several posts concerning this car and mentioning the different paint configurations and failed to post pics to document them I am goint to attach them to this message. one the red/black,all red and the tri color
last config.

Again best to you
Dave

[davenkc]

second pic is all red against Limefire (Clare Sanders)

[davenkc]

Last is the tri color it that is my personal fav
This was taken at NY National I dont know by who.
BTW if anyone wishes to claim credit for any pic I might post I will be glad to aknowledge that. credit where it is due. This not a really good pic sorry

[Salvatore]

Tom, I think a reunion of those cars that made history would be a great idea! I grew up looking at those cars in the magazines and going to the Super Stock nationals at York US30 and Atco, NJ. Maybe the York Super Stock Reunion would be a great place. As for a driver to do some burnouts, I know a good guy that has a double B funny car license. Very reliable and knowledgable. For any chassis mods you need: S+W chassis in Spring City, Pa. or Ed Quay Race Cars. All these people are less than an hour from Maple Grove Dragway, Pa. Keep up the good work. I appreciate all the commitment to Nostalgia racing and our muscle car hobby. Thanks, Sam

[sYc]

Sam, The York show is one of the shows I hope to attend within the next year or two. Not only with the FC, but to display a Yenko or two, and my memorabilia collection, in the Supercar Registry area. As per the funnycar, I had put it on the back burner for a while, as I worked on my Yenko Nova. But, because of the all the interest in the car, both online and off, I pulled it out of the corner this evening, to see what was needed to finish it. I hope to finish it, ot at least be close, by spring, as just today I have received invites from a couple of shows wanting the car to be part of a vintage FC display. In addition, I have been in contact with a NHRA person to see what would be required to do a burnout and maybe even a short pass. If all goes well, with the help of Dave, Bob, Dale, Val and people like you, sometime in the not to distance the future, a blown/injected big block Dick Harrell Funnycar can once again be roaring down the track, and hopefully, joined by a couple of others. The ultimate Harrell reunion. Tom

[sYc]

Dave; thanks for the tips. I can see that Mo and I have our work cut out for us, just getting the car square. We did a short walk around the car this evening, and both the front and rear ends are not square with the chassis or each other. I guess next time we will need to do more then just eyeball everything. Looks like the first pass needs to be in a big, wide open area. I would suggest standing behind the car, way behind. Tom

[Salvatore]

Tom, Sounds real good! If I can do anything for your cause let me know. I would like to meet you guys. All you guys have OIL for blood. Just like me. Sam

[copolocater]

One final thought moparts stick to taking pictures and parking cars thats what your qualified to do.I will consider all statements and will respond calmly.

[sYc]

"Sorry to say I will no longer associate or be a part of this site.For those who need to get ahold of me you have my phone # and adress.This will be my last post." Copolocater

I guess we are just too much fun to be around. Could not stay away. Tom

[bkhpah]

On a lighter note, Darwin Doll has contacted me and has invited the Supercar Registry to again be part of this great east coast show. Last year was great and we won the Largest Group Participation Award. All involved had a great time. An all indoor show makes it perfect and a large cruise area outside has new cars coming and going all day. The dates are July 11-12 2003. You can visit www.yorkus30.com (http://www.yorkus30.com) for additional information. I once again will help out with the set up for the Supercar area. Email [email protected] for registration info. Think spring!!!...BKH

[davenkc]

Tom and all
To you first Tom what you describe is not unexpected by me as always with any restoration the attention to detail is the primary consideration. With a funny car maybe paramount is a better word. I know you guys will do the best you can remember do not hesitate to ask if you are not sure. There are many who will help. You know who I mean.

There is another car of Dick's that is under restoration at this time it is his 67. Thought I might share with you what I know of it's past and present.
The 67 was the second of 2 like it built by Don Hardy. Kelly Chadwick's being first. Actually Dick ran it in early 67 before his was finished to honor a race date. This is about his not kelly's so...
The history of this car is well documented. It was built from a new "rear clip" of a real camaro (new never a completed car) with an extended fiberglass front end,glass doors ,trunk lid. Chassis is rectangular tubing ant the normal for the era roll cage. w/b is 115 inches with the rear wheel opening moved up approx 8 in and the front end was approx 12 in extended. It first saw service as an injected only (on nitro) and its many antics (giant wheelies) have been featured many times in/on many publications. I have attached a photo taken early at Green Valley raceway against Mike Burkhart in a similar car.Sorry it is b&w more to follow
Dave

[davenkc]

Cont-
The 67 car was equipped with a blower about I stress about mid year minor chassis mods were made at this time (ie) engine set back a few gussets...the car ran the rest of the season this way and was very sucessful winning an amazing percentage of its match races. In this time this was the bread and butter of the touring funny car.
Attched is a well known pic of the car w/ blower at Orange County Raceway. more....

[davenkc]

cont...
After the season and when the new car (the one Tom Clary has now) was ready to go the 67 was conditionally sold to a party who shall not named, My term used here will be obvious in a min. The car was taken to AMT (the model people) and repainted by them. The reason was as I understand they were going to make a model in it's image but that never happened.Reason being Dick was never paid for the car and he repossed it.When it came back to the shop I personally thought it was beautiful (attached pic)
We (shop) built a new engine and put it back in service. The plan was to use it as a "fill in" car for match racing when the other car was busy elsewhere. Remember this car was somewhat heaver than the all glass body fliptop cars.
(app 2400 lbs) but was still competitve. more

[davenkc]

The car was relettered and that pic is attached here.
nearing mid year of 68 this car was again sold to a fellow named Bruce Neff who match raced it for several years. When he took possession of it, it was painted an orange color and named The Stroker. Making a longer story shorter He eventually sold it to a party who is unknown to me. It was then aquired by the present owner who I was with at the reunion this year. He has owned it for close to 20 years and fairly recently discovered it's true history. This has been documented and verified by several persons including the builder, Mr. Neff and myself.Plans at this time are to restore it to it's original configuration. Red/black,inj.
It is hoped to be done at least to the point of being able to show it at the reunion next year. So there is another genuine Dick Harrell car. This is a true piece of history and I for one am very glad it is being preserved.
Thank you all for this forum and a place to share my memories.
Dave Libby

[davenkc]

All
If there interested parties I have similar accounts of the 69 car, the 70 cars and the 71???
Dave

[sYc]

Dave; Being both a Yenko and a Harrell addict, I can not wait to see this car. Tom

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
The 67 was the second of 2 like it built by Don Hardy. Kelly Chadwick's being first. Actually Dick ran it in early 67 before his was finished to honor a race date.

<hr></blockquote>

I've got a picture or two around here of Chadwick's car with what looks like a piece of posterboard on the side with "Dick Harrell" or something to that effect written on it. Your statement explains that picture!

[Seattle Sam]

Dave,
Thanks for that great history of the '67 car. History remembered by the people who were there and helped make that history is always fascinating to read. Accounts like yours are a big reason why this board is great! I, for one, would definitely like to read the stories of the 69, the 70's, and the 71 car.

Thanks again for sharing your memories with us!
-Sam

[davenkc]

Tom
I talk to Craig quite frequently and progress is moving along but as with yours who can tell. I found a better pic of your car.. maybe you have seen it but it shows the last "tricolor" pretty good. The unique thing about it was it looked different in different light. In the pits sitting next to the Car Shop Camaro out of Lousiana I think it was Henry Garcia drove it.

[sYc]

Dave; Thanks for the great pictures. With them you have solved question I had. In fact, I had just asked Bob about it yesterday. When I got the car, it had a door handle on the driver's side, but the passenger side had the indention, but had been filled in. I have numerous pictures of the car, but none of the passenger side. Glad to see no handle on the passenger side, as I did not remove the filler. As per the tri-color paint job, I believe I will stick with the rerd/black look. Of course I am sure it looked better in real life, verus pictures.Tom

[Chevy454]

Some great info in there fellas! I do have a small "request", though. If possible, could we start a new thread(s) dealing with each of Dick's race cars, possibly a thread per car (year), as Bob and Dave seem to have quite a bit of info, and I'm sure other members would like to contribute as well. Just a suggestion, which would make it easier to find on down the road.

But, on a final note, check out this picture I found while cruising some old SS&amp;DI mags, which I feel helps explain a little bit of the passion behind these cars:

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/25440-DH_FIRE.jpg

Caption reads:

"Dick Harrell was a funny car builder, an excellent driver, and one of the drag racing sport's very best ambassadors to the outside world. He won countless match races and major events, and was cited over and over again by the racing associations and the drag racing media for deeds on and off the drag strip. During his career, he built hundereds and hundreds of Chevrolet engines for customers at his Kansas City shop, and managed to create a full range of specially equipped and very exciting Chevrolet street cars when no one else would, because he believed in high performance cars for their own sake. His talent, creativity, and energy were legendary, and he will be remembered."

[Belair62]

Now THAT'S a funny car !!!! I always liked that type of wheel on these cars.

[sYc]

I think most, if not all of us here agree that Dick Harrell did as much, or maybe even more, for the sport of drag racing, then almost any other person. Well, yesterday I was told that he IS NOT in the drag racing Hall of Fame. We are talking about a AHRA World champion, who was at the top of the sport when he lost his life. 30+ years later his influence can still be seen, on and off the track. I am not for sure how, but I feel that we need to do something to see that this is corrected. Tom

[Stefano]

Tom, I would say that while Drag racing may have been Dick's Primary avocation that it its ridiculous he is not in the its Hall of fame, based on his accomplishments and contributions to the sport. IMO he is directly responsible to one degree or another for the whole "Super Car" Culture which exists today ,as well.

[davenkc]

Tom and all,
This is a true statment Dick is NOT in the dragracing Hall of Fame! I personally have written to several of the people in charge of nominations more than once. I know Bob Gibson has also with no responce. Plain and simple he has been shunned by the powers that be. I once thought it was due to
his loyalty to AHRA. This proves out to be wrong as Jim Tice (the founder and president of AHRA until his death) is in the HOF. After Tice passed even Don Garlits was involved in the admin. of AHRA for a while. I think that voices should be heard in order to make this happen. The DRHOF is located near Garlits famous display of cars in FL. There is no reason Dick should not be honored with membership on this
list of Dragracing heros. One person on the board of nominations is Steve Gibbs another Shirley Muldowney just to mention 2. Mentioning to Garlits surely would not hurt.
what say you?

Dave

[menmyfcs]

Dave. When I see these pictures of the 68 car and Henry Garcias in the back ground it almost brings tears to my eyes.That year I raced several times with those guys, Being the young kid on the block those guys looked out for me.Took me places in New York I never imagined existed.Between Dick and Charlie I never knew who had the biggest grin but they both had it.After being around that 68 car I wanted a Don Hardy car so bad.We were in the staging lanes at NY national when Charlie pulled in next to Kelly. Kelly still had his Door car and was soon to get his flip top.as soon as it stopped he jumped in the 68 just to see how it felt.was all smiles knowing his was next.It was not a deep candy red but a very bright with the gold base showing on the right angles.
Dont get me going on that Hall of Fame. I have talked to Garlits,Steve Gibbs,Shirley Muldowney and others on the board.Its pretty dissapopinting of who has gotten in and not Dick.I would not hurt for any of you to send letters to them about it. I am the 1st to say after the last few years its political.Far be it from me to sugar coat it.
MenMyFcs

[davenkc]

Rob.
I have another picture taken at the same time (by Bob Plummer) from a slightly different angle. Perhaps you saw it on a t-shirt I had on at the reunion. My opinion of this shot is... Here is a perfect example of Dick Harrell in his finest hour.... Putting on a show for the people.
BTW this was taken.. Sat night Sept 11 1971. Dick died on the 12th.
Dave

[moparts]

OUCH!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif That coming from someone who announced his own death a few posts back? If you come to the next reunion with a ??????? car I will be sure to have a special place for you to park. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif I can also help you with where to put your table! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

Maurice Wiggs
6'4" 300 lbs
and almost as good looking as Charley Lillard

[Charley Lillard]

You Big Lug You. This thread was alot more interesting when you Guys were Fighting.......just my opinion........ /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Belair62]

My pet snail is as good looking as Charley Lillard.

[Charley Lillard]

Only you would have a Pet Snail........And I know why...

[Belair62]

Would you rather be on the other thread talking about what constitutes a Supercar ? It's spooky over there! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Belair62]

Jeez I just opened the attachment Chas.....for cryin out loud how long have you been peeking ?

[Rat_Pack]

Belair62 &amp; Charley, you guys kill me! Keep it going though. By the way it is getting a little spooky on that other thread. Stay away! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ................RatPack...............

[davenkc]

menmyfcs
I also have gotten a little choked up going through some of the pics I have. Thinking today back to 68-69 how many times a touring car would stop by the shop. Hardly raise an eyebrow other than to look and see who it was. Now I would go back to then if given the chance in a heartbeat.

I am going to attach the first of pics of the 69 to this post. It is fairly early on in the year. Has Courtesy in
the logo on the door. This car was fast from the start and probably Dick's best remembered car. Pic speaks for itself.
IMO it was beautiful just like this.
Dave

[sYc]

Dave, keep the pictures and stories coming. And if you find a way to return to those days, PLEASE take me with you. Tom

[Belair62]

DO NOT FOLLOW THE LIGHT you guys...stay here...Charley has more snails to play with and its much more mellow on this thread now...

[davenkc]

Tom. Consider it done BTW notice on the 69 it has door handles on both sides. Do real race cars have doors?? Maybe so maybe not. This one has door handles but no doors.
Dicks 69 car.. what can be said about this car that hasn't been said before. From my stand point it I am just proud to say I had the chance to work on it,sit in it while it was running... There is no way to describe what that feels like.
You had to be there to understand. I will be the first to admit it was no fun to pull the tranny after a run and either put the other in(we had a spare always) or pull it apart and see if anything else but the high clutches were trashed. The tranny was the best piece that there was for the era and we had been known to lose it on a burn out.
Wow it sure was fun. In Jan of 71 (yes 71) This car advertised in the AHRA paper for sale. I have a copy of the ad. I still kick myself for not buying it. Ahhh live and learn. The attached pic some will think it has been repainted but it is just the different lighting. I talked at length a few months ago with John (oop) Fensom about this car and he assured me there was no complete repaint on this car until just before Fred's prostock was painted to match it.
Dave

[sYc]

More mellow, yes, but playing with Charley's snails? Sick /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Belair62]

Sick ??? How fast does your Es-car-go /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Rat_Pack]

Someone has seen Trading Places one time too many! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ..............RatPack..................

[sYc]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[davenkc]

This next pic is the first time I tried out my scanner It is of my personally autographed copy of the well known hand out taken at Bristol Tenn. On the back it said To "Dave Libby best wishes" signed Dick Harrell. The Lace has been added in this pic and the logo has been changed to Fred Gibb
The hand out has been destroyed by a strange sequence of events. Suffice to say I was upset,but what is done is done.
There is not much one can say about a world championship car
Its winning record speaks loud. This car will rise again
for all to see take my word for it.
Dave

[davenkc]

This last pic is from a magazine, Hotrod I think and this is the last configuation seen for this car. There was a repaint done after the 69 season when it became known that the 70 Camaro would be released late, so late actually it was called a 70 1/2 Dick felt that the car should be changed somewhat. Now I dont pretend to know all there is to know about the reasons for this and actually it is not really important except that there were no new cars to use to make a "buck" (a mold for fiberglass) from. The car was ran like this picture as late as may 15 1970. It was on the front of Drag World that issue as having won the Kansas state championship race in Manhatten KS with Clyde Morgan driving.

[davenkc]

This is the ad I mentioned where the car is for sale in Jan 1971.

[menmyfcs]

And here it is now. Pretty sickening isn't it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

[Jeff H]

Dave, great pictures! All I can say is that I was 3 years old back in 69 so it's hard for me to relate to what was going on in racing. All the pictures in this thread are great and you can't really find this stuff anywhere else. Thanks to everyone who has posted some of this history! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[menmyfcs]

Sorry for the quality of these. Dave. With your picture and this one we have 2 of the many paint jobs of 69.Note ZL1
looking very similar.I am like you I always thought the 69 Courtesy car was the pretiest. Thats the one we took to a street race in Ca..For some reason I thought Corky painted that one.I talked to Kelly last nite and he thought so also.We talked about how easy it would be if Hardy and others would have put a tag and a number or name with each car. Sure would have stopped a lot of confusion.

[Mr70]

I gotta say,this is a very interesting topic to me.I am a Stock Chevelle man first,but very much enjoy the F/C sector of the hobby.The Funny Car pictures you are posting are incredible.THANK YOU! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gifFor years I have collected Chevrolet Dealership displays and like my Chevelles Day 1 stock (with Smog parts) but I could really go Bonzai with these Funny Cars.I showed My Joplin Missouri born L-78 Chevelle at VetteFest last week with friends and their Chevelles,and met Copolocater and saw his Funny Car there with his dad..WOW! Can I drive it just once??? I would like to Visit Tom and Rob down SouthWest of me here in Chicago to view their cars and collection as well someday.As much as I like to see the Camaro Funny cars,was there a Harrell or Gibb Chevelle Funny car? I'd like to see pictures if there are any,as well as any stories on it.Also in the last picture post,you show Dick Harrell posing with the two Cars with his Beautiful Trailer in the Background.Where is that Trailer today? Are these sought after by others in this Hobby as well?Regardless,DavenKC &amp; Menmyfcs Welcome to this website as I very much appreciate both your posts.As I watch the Snow come down over here and have CredenceClear Water playing on the Radio,I too am working feverishly to invent a Time machine... SUNDAY,SUNDAY,SUNDAY, WHERE THE BIG ONES.....RUNNNN! /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif Rick

[SS427]

Rick, I think I can answer part of your question. From my Pro Stock racing days, most of these trailers were sold off to smaller teams as the bigger teams moved up the ladder into bigger and better trailers. The same held true for the cars. Pro Sotck cars moved on through many teams and classes. Often times when the cars and trailers were retired, the then current owners had no clue whos car or trailer they had. Sad but true in most cases.
Rick

[davenkc]

menmyfcs,
I also am not sure who (Corky most likely) did the orig paint on the 69. I do know that opp did the lace work and when the color change (ie) the House of Kolor "kandy" (for lack of a better discription) colors appeared. Oop has many pics if I can only get them to copy. He is not in good health and I need to get over to see him soon. He only lives about 5 mi from me.I also have that pic you posted great aint it.
I am going to post a similar pic with this showing the 70 cars of Dick, (far right) Clyde Morgan's car which I am not sure if it was ran as a contract deal or partnership but it was there none the less. Plus in the pic is the 70 stocker of Harry Kalwe(sp) and Leathermans 70. Dick and James kneeling by them. The idenity of these cars was confirmed less than a month ago to me by James who is in this pic

Dave

[davenkc]

This pic is the 70 car of Dick's. Notice how the chassis is (I want to say it IS) so close in apperance to the 69. Remember the 69 was not listed for sale until 71. Exactly what went on here is not clear.But I and others remember the 69 body sitting in the back of the shop about I stress about this time frame.
Dave

[davenkc]

The next pic is of the Clyde morgan car on the ramp truck. It has very similar paint. This car was transported in this manner unless both cars were going to the same place. Meaning a national event or one of the many 16,32 and even once in a while the fabled 64 car show/bookings. Wow those big "shows" were something to see, Funny cars a far as the eye could see. I feel sorry for those who can only see pics and read/hear stories of those times. You just had to be there.

[Kim_Howie]

Dave, the second car from the left is the 70 pro/ss car I own and restoring, if you or anybody has info on this car please let me know. Kim Howie thanks

[davenkc]

Rick,
I too am a lover of the stock Chevelle. I assume you were at the reunion. If so I am the guy who was taking up a lot of time with Joe S. around his DH Chevelle. You see I personally am the guy who did the conversion on that car.
Imagine my reaction when I saw it on the cover of that mag.
Just FYI there is another of those cars undergoing resto at this time. I cannot wait to see it in person. To be honest when I first walked up to Joes car I turned away for a min.
The lump in my throat just would't let me talk just then.
The best I can describe it is like walking into a room and suddenly it is 1968.
On Dick's tractor trailer I believe it was a lend/lease deal from Quaker State oil co as part of the sponsorship
deal. That is what I believe it was. At least at the first.

Dave

[davenkc]

Kim,
About the best I can do is say what James told me so that is second hand info. He told me it was Leathermans car,Rumor was it had the ZL-1 engine from his 69 in it at least at one time. I have no knowledge of this. The other car,( Harry's) he is someone I have seen/talked to within the last year I will try to look him up and see if he can lend any info.
Dave

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, does your car have red tinted windows in it? Somewhere I have a picture of either the P/S or the GT1(?) car at Bristol in 1971 taken by my Dad and it has red tinted windows. The front wheels are the spoked Kelsey Hayes wheels. I need to try and find that picture................RatPack.................... ....

[davenkc]

All
I have several pic of the 71 cars the Camaro and the Vega am am going to post. The first is very early on of the Camaro taken at Kansas City. This may have been even the first test session/shakedown runs. Note the lack of people in the stands. Others pics will follow later today.
Dave

[Kim_Howie]

The May of 1971 Rodder &amp; Super/Stock mag shows no tinted windows. but it had a tinted back glass when i bought it.
I have a picture of it at Bristol. I know the history of the car but need history of where and when and how long it was raced. Kim

[davenkc]

The next pic I wish to share with the forum is the 71 car at speed. This for those who do not know this is the Chrysler powered car, speeds were in excess of 200 mph on a regular basis.
Dave

[davenkc]

All
Next pic is with the chute out. Notice the down attitude as compared to the previous pic at speed. Imagine what the downward force might be during this time. Might be a little scary.
Dave

[davenkc]

All
Next is a pic I mentioned earlier. It is taken at the same time as the other one posted which was the centerfold pic in ss&amp;di I believe in Jan of 72. It is Bob Plummers pic and the one I had on a t-shirt at this years reunion. If you have never seen a fire burnout suffice to say you have missed something you would never forget!
Dave

[davenkc]

All
The next pic is of the Vega. This car was built with a partner involved Larry Christopherson. The details of that are not entirley clear to me and imo are not necessary the fact that the car existed is enough.In pic it is being driven by David Ray against The Chi Town Hustler Challenger
A car that has been restored and is in the NHRA Museum.
Fate of this car is cloudy, only thing I have been told is this.. It was supposed to be in someones back yard body and chassis in Missouri and washed away never to be seen again in the 1993 floods. If true how very sad.
Dave

[davenkc]

All
The next and last pic of the Vega is on a ramp truck with the body up. As you can see it is also Hemi powered.

[davenkc]

All The next attachment speaks for itself.

[davenkc]

All
One final pic on this subject. Mr. Chevrolet. RIP my friend
Dave Libby

[Mr70]

Rick
Thanks for that.I did not know you knew about F/C's too.I am selling all my stuff,and converting over to Dick H. Memorabilia....

Dave
I did not make the reunion,but I've seen the DH 1968 Chevelle in our ACES magazine from Chuck Hanson.I will see that in person someday.I envy you that you were the original wrench on that Chevelle!

Were there any Famous 1968-72 Chevelle Funny Cars?

The obit you posted on Dick H.is very Sad.I had no idea he was only 26....The last two lines in his obit are sure an understatement Today.

[davenkc]

Rick
Thank you. I assure you I am proud to have been involved. Joe's Chevelle is a great example of our work. And it is original that is the best part. When I saw it at the reunion it looked the same as it did when I last saw it 30 years ago.
As far as well known Chevelle f/c there were a couple that come to mind but were what I call second generation cars being 66-67 I think Bobby Wood and Malcom Durham had them a few others but names dont come to mind just now. Best example I know of in the post 68 Chevell class car was a 73 or 74 Pontiac Grand Am built by Micky Thompson. With the front end stretch it was a good looking car.
Think you read the obit wrong Dick was 36 not 26

Dave.

[ORIGLS6]

Dave,
I too am a big fan of Joe's car. I had a brief opportunity to see the car and talk with Joe at this year's Reunion. Also got to chat with he and Brian on Friday eve. at VetteFest. I wish I'd had more time at the Reunion so I could have met you but we had to leave early for a wedding. Maybe next year.
Thank you for the fantastic photos and stories. It brings back fond memories of one of Chevy's greatest champions. Please take good care of those photos.
Dennis

Rick, how bout we convert your car to a FC? It's already the right color and I don't think we'd have to cut it up too bad /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif . Maybe we could establish a new class: SB/FC (Stock Bodied Fuel Coupe!) /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

Dave,
Great info and pictures thanks for posting. What year did you begin to work with Dick Harrell?
Do you know anything about a shop called Harrell and Sanders Automotive on 411 East Church Street
Carlsbad, New Mexico Phone TU 5-3532.
They did some of the 427 conversions on the Yenko Camaros in 1967.

[menmyfcs]

Hey Dave I found some documentation that does exist.The Quaker State Transporter was leased to Dick Harrell Performance dated Jan.2 1970 for $1.00 with all expences picked up by Quaker State. Dick was 39 when he died Birthdate Oct.4 1932. Dick and Clyde Morgan were partners in the 701/2 Camaro.The Christopherson Vega was also owned by Dick Harrell Performance on a joint venture of some kind.I have also found pictures of the 69 painted 3 different ways.Last of all tonite I just found another piece that you may not see from most other racers. It is a letter of Dicks sending back a contingency check because he didnt really use there brand of filter. Most would have kept it. MenMyFcs

[68TopStock]

Dave,

Thank you very much for the posting, these pictures are fantastic. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

ps: are the Leatherman's still around?

[davenkc]

JoeC
I have no personal knowledge of the shop other than it existed.
The Sanders in the name of that shop is I believe the first name is right Frank Sanders. He was responsible for S&amp;S headers, I remember the mention of that name as the builder of many sets for Dick for his racecars. I have a picture many have seen it is on many web sites of Dick's 64 Chevelle (427 Z11 power) racing a Ford Thunderbolt.
On the front fender is clearly seen "S&amp;S Headers"
One other thing to answer another question I "officially" went to work for Dick when we started moving into the shop on Hickman Mills drive in KC. (winter/spring 67-68) One of the things Dick had brought with him was several sets of headers for Camaros with a 427, Guess what they were... S&amp;S. This leads me to believe that the header equipped Early (stress on the early) Yenko cars had S&amp;S headers. How does that prove out?

Dave
ps I can post the pic of the 64 Chevelle if you have never seen it.

[davenkc]

Menmyfcs
Bingo. Thank you for confirmining.I remember that transporter when it first appeared it looked like any other Quaker State truck.
Makes me feel good to be that close to accurate after all these years. Great you posted the pic of the 69 on that rollback very glad to see both pieces at the same place,same time once more.
That letter you mention about the oil filters says a lot about the integrety of the man. As you say most would have just kept it.
Dave

[Stefano]

The information and participation on this thread has been phenomenal but I would like to get back to the issue at hand.

Since many have stated (certainly not to my satisfaction) that which Tim/COPO Locater does not have, then someone please tell me just what he does have.

As an independent bystander I am more confused than ever /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

Who, what, where and when, built/raced the Funny Car which he has?

Copo Locater where are you??????

[davenkc]

Ken,
My pleasure. My only intention in doing so is to set the record as best it can be. A real bonus has been Menmyfcs to confirm much of what I said. A great guy many here will meet when the time is right.

I have not heard anything of the Leatherman bros since the 70's
Dave
ps Still have not been able to positive id on Sam's car but not giving up.(not seen it)

[copolocater]

Stefano please don't pull me back into this issue.I originally ask for help and received none.Now all this info is pouring out of the woodwork.Thats all I ask for from the beginning.The car is for sale like it was before this happened.It's just a 69 funnycar body with an updated chassis.I just want to get rid of the albatross.It's become a thorn in my side.You will see that I will not make other posts.But to reinterate Stefano I don't care.Thanks anyhow the more my name pops up the more people pressure me to respond.I don't need it anymore

[JoeC]

Dave,
here is an early picture of the 64 Chevelle with the Z-11 engine. I took this picture of a picture in Valerie's scrap book.
So you remember doing a lot of 427 conversions at the shop on Hickman Mills drive in KC on Camaros, Chevelles, and Novas?

[davenkc]

Joe,
Yes I have seen that pic before. Here is the pic I mentioned. That pic has the front fender obscured by reflected sun or something.

Yes originally there was 2 of us who did the conversions, myself and a fellow named Danny O'Shay. As I have mentioned I personally did all 4 of the Chevelle 427 conversions (the other red one was sold to my brother as a 396/375 and a week later recieved a 427 after the 396 spun a front main.So in reality I did all 5 of those. It is hard to put a # on the Camaros and Chevylls (68s were chevyll). But I put in 10-12 hours a day for nearly 3 years.I would do it again in a heartbeat. Early on when Dick learned of my passion for the funny cars I was allowed to learn the work side of them (not just watching them). I would not trade those times and memories for ANYTHING! Few people had the chance to do what I did and will be forever grateful to Mr.Chevrolet for that chance.
Dave

[davenkc]

Stefano,
Aginst my better judgement I will comment on Tim's car
First and foremost I will not make any guesses on its past history, based on my observations of it at the reunion I will venture an opinion (stress opinion).
First in regard to the chassis. My first impression was it was a home made bracket racer. However Craig who I was with there observed it was very near in design to an early Tom Smith (Wolverine Chassis ) a builder of some renoun in the late 60's. He stated the slightly offset driver location and rec.tube lower frame rail being consistant with his design. Not being familiar with that I take his word for it. But that by no means is any proof of anything.
As far as the body goes I for one think it is a VERY good one considering it's age. I for one would be very happy to have it beside the 71 Camaro f/c body in my back yard. That being said the possibility of tracing a body back is at the very best marginal. There were funny cars everywhere all over the country. Unlike "real cars" there is no paperwork no serial numbers nothing only he said she said to rely on
so if I have made any point I hope you understand. My statment that I would like to have it is just that, I would like to have it. But my racing days have passed years ago and I know it so I must be satisfied to just look and reflect on what I should have done.
best wishes to you and Tim.
Dave

[Stefano]

Dave,
I certainly don't know nnuch about funny cars, but I gew up down the road fronn Rick Roshto and Steve NNanhart. They ran a funny car called the Vixen. I used to hang out, with nny custonn built Shwinn chopper. I would listen to engine and watch the flannes it would through out of the headers, at dusk. you could hear the car throughout the neighborhood literally for nniles, Very fond nnennories indeed.

If there is a way to verify and validate who nnay have raced/built the car and if it does have sonne historical significance then I nnight be inclined to put a deal together with Copolocater.

[hvychev]

STEFANO! Get the M button fixed or postpone your next super car purchase and spend the C-Note for a new one!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Stefano]

I have nny priorities strait, everything and then sonne, plus a little nnore goes to sonne 'really neat cars' and a couple of 'super cars'.

Who needs nn's any way.

[menmyfcs]

Funny car bodies were made by a few people at the time. The one in Chicago was Fiberglass Ltd, Ron Peligrini. There were also a few chassis builders in that area.BTW. for you Chicago guys. The Funny car hang out in the late 60s and early 70s was the Phillips motel in think was 8750 S. Ciscero.That is where most of us stayed.Also Speed sport on 111th. None of which I knew to build the kind of car Tim has. I have 5 or 6 pictures of Tim's car's previous owner, Ken Peterson, prior to the eBay auction. Ken Peterson sent Valerie the pictures and she emailed them on to me. Peterson met Richard Schroeder while he was in Boise along with Mousie Marcellus, who was the partner of Wild Wille Borsch and still owns the Winged Express. Petersen told me that Mousie &amp; Schroeder told him it might be a Dick Harrell car. When I saw both Richard and Mousie about 3 weeks later they said "NO WAY" did they say that. When the car went up for auction on Ebay, the auction was discussed on several of the race sites (i.e., Fuel Coupes), which all posts said no way was this a DH funny. I don't believe that Tim did not receive any help. He just asked people who may not have known. Kinda like asking the guy at Home Depot in the lumber dept how to build a computer. Please don't disregard the fact that Tim's car is still a darn nice find. J&amp;E Fiberglass and Fiberglass Trends also made this type of body. If it were me I would just keep posting on sites and researching. The best way is to trace backwards. Start with Ken Peterson. If you need his contact information either can be obtained from myself or Valerie. The body may have never been with that car till a short time ago. Again, find out where Petersen got it and trace it back. I would say the Northwest to start. Now to send something that may answer a few other questions. As you can see someone scratched out the Sanders Auto name and the address; here is a dated Dick Harrell invoice. Please note that the invoice is an authenticated Dick Harrell handwriting for one of the Yenko conversion cars. Have fun with it!

[menmyfcs]

Now to send something that may answer a few other questions. As you can see someone scratched out the Sanders Auto name and the address; here is a dated Dick Harrell invoice. Please note that the invoice is an authenticated Dick Harrell handwriting for one of the Yenko conversion cars. Have fun with it!

[JoeC]

I believe that receipt is for Kevin's 67 Yenko Camaro #YS710. I have one very similar to that for my 67 Yenko Camaro #YS738. The second line reads "tuned headers Doug" maybe this is Doug Thorley Headers? The third line is hard to read but I think is "Dist Package" which may be for springs and weights to re-curve the distributor?
You guys think that is Dick Harrell's own handwriting? That would be great and make the receipts extra special to me.

[Jeff H]

Joe, that looks like it says "Inst Package" maybe for extra gauges. Great piece of documentation.

[JoeC]

thanks Jeff I think you are correct.

[68TopStock]

C'mon Joe,

Will you post yours so we can print a copy for our files? Do you have a pic of #38. /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif

[copolocater]

Sir if you knew me you would know thatI wouldn't go to Vw to inquire about a RollsRoyce.Yes weve been on the funnycar sites and I haven't seen any where that people denied this was a Dick Harrell car but they haven't said it was either.99% of the people we have talked to couldn't either way, but what most have said is that the sheetmetal work looks like it was out of Don Hardys stable.This is the last time this needs to be mentioned it is an updated chassis not a Hardy chassis.I just hope when this car is sold it remains just a 69 funnycar and thats it just a 69 nobody knows whos funnycar it was.We will be sanding the paint to see whats underneath just for my curiosity.Then its down the road. We will inform the new owner of all that has transpired and tell him everything we know so this situation does not happen again.Thanks but the issue of my car should be put to rest.

[davenkc]

All,
Earlier in this thread I posted a b&amp;w pic of Dicks 71 car and said It may be the first shakedown runs. I found a pic last night I have never seen before. Pic is of the same car unlettered on the cover of a mag. (attached) Amazed that this existed and I never ran on to it. Just wanted to correct an assumtion. Scan credit to Dennis Doubleday
Dave

[copo9566aa]

Thanks
for the pics and great info.
I,m not familar with Funny Car world.

[menmyfcs]

You are not going to like this and I have left it alone on purpose.I am wondering why anyone thinks this was ever even a real funny car other than the body? The Chassis is far from an up dated car.I havent seen lower rail like this since about 68.and then only a few.99.9% of all the cars built after about mid 70 had the headers outside the rails, The roll cages were dragster type with a much narrower frame. What you have is a Comp. Eliminator car or also refered to as a bracket car.The more I look at pictures of this car,I doubt if they would have let it run as a funny car past the year of 1970.Funny cars had blown or injected Nitro engines.Also your car would have had to have a SEMA approved tag welded on the roll bar or a stamp on it as of 1970 As far as the tin goes. Don Hardy used to work for Logghe that also built the same type of car and tin work.I would have gladly dropped this had I not recieved calls from others who are not on this site.The car was on Fuel coupes and Nitronic Research while on Ebay.I am sure lots of people can say what to look for on these cars. what they cant tell you is what the past 5 owners changed to make it the way they wanted.I have seen 4 of my old race cars and only could recognize 1 of them.I am over this subject!
Good Luck sanding.
Yes that is Dicks hand writting on that document. Authenticated by Valerie J Harrell.

[copolocater]

Well well well.This is just the kind of dialoge I had hoped for from the beginning.The info you have just provided can be of great assistance as to an area as to where to start.You are correct the chassis is not certified for running in an injected class.But you have provided info on it could possibly be pre 70.As to why you would assume I would be upset ,I don't know, you have just provided a wealth of info.Remember we were not trying to prove it was Dicks body just that it wasn't.Do you realize how stupid I would look if unknowingly sold a piece of history without knowing I did so .I'm copolocater I'm supposed to know .That pertinant info will be provided to the next owner.

[menmyfcs]

I am very glad you see it that way.I would not only make you look stupid,It is not good for your future credibilty
in your business. I have no idea why it never dawned on me in the 1st place as it just never hit me that it was being called a funny car,I guess I was fixated on the body.Kinda like seeing a great looking woman,until she talks all you see is that look. Best to You MenMyfcs

[menmyfcs]

I am very glad you see it that way.I would not only make you look stupid,It is not good for your future credibilty.
I have no idea why it never dawned on me in the 1st place as it just never hit me that it was being called a funny car,I guess I was fixated on the body.Kinda like seeing a great looking woman,until she talks all you see is that look.
On another note. I have been trying to send a few pictures.only like 560 bytes and they come back as file to large anybody have any clues? Only on black and white.
Best to You MenMyfcs

[JoeC]

not sure where this photo is from but looks like after a FC fire

[menmyfcs]

TIM 1st I would like to correct A typo on my last post. Saying I would make you look stupid. It should read IT would make you look stupid.Sorry! Trying to Dyno and map FI programs and play at the same time.From my typing you can imagine how my Dyno day went.
That last Picture was at New York Dragway Long Island,1967
From a wheelstand losing a wheel as it came down and catching fire. Pretty tired to nite but have 3 sequence shots I will try to share of it. Nite All

[copolocater]

Thanks

[Belair62]

The Yahoo Fuel Coupes site was pretty helpful back when i was trying to find out info on the Gray Ghost 66 GTO funny car....hell I got some nice pictures of the car from some of the guys there...talked to pellegrini and even the chassis builder as well as finally finding Larry Swiatek the original owner ! Great site.

[mr gasser]

belair is that the the one with the chimalawall chassis by cookie....

[menmyfcs]

Do any of you Chi town guys know if Dukes is still in business. Best Italian beff sandwiches I ever had.Austin Coil lived right down the street. I thought it was 79th and Archer.
Lets see if I can send this with out a screw up.

[Belair62]

No Dyno that was a chassis built by R&amp;B in Kenosha and painted by Scully...

[menmyfcs]

Here is the last of the wheelstand shot.
R&amp;b. B was John Buttera who built some of the most famous funny cars of the 70s.

[Belair62]

Nice try menmyfcs ! Never had a beff sandwich ! I know Dukes son ran the place and it may still be there but home to those guys with big stereos! Not positive.Didn't know Austin Coyle lived around there.Gary Dyers place is still close by...

[menmyfcs]

I will try to post this. It may show why you find more people that loved Dick Harrell for more than just the cars.
He would have been way ahead of the teams out there today just because of his personality and charm.

[menmyfcs]

You think my spelling is bad wait till you try to read that last attachment. Is Dyers still by the toll way? Coil lived in the Apartments at 95th and Archer.May have been 87th dont recall exact.I have an old polariod of the Motel with the lot full of ramp trucks and funny cars.Try the beff its as good as the beef.Man I gotta crash now. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Garys shop is still at the same place. He was also at vettefest. Kim Howie

[Stefano]

The Same John Buttera now "Califorina" Street Rod Builder?

[Rat_Pack]

Yes that is the same one..............RatPack................

[menmyfcs]

John has been into so many different areas. Street rods to custom Harleys and now does design an one off things for Harley factory.Very talented.He built the Schumacher cars of the 70s the Mickey Thompson Maverick and 2 Grand ams.
Barry Setzer cars and the list goes on.You could buy a complete car with and ED PINK blown fuel engine and a top of the line Buttera car and know it would run good just like you could a street car.Then it was up to you after that unless you hired Ed Pink or others to do all the rest.
Like a Fred Gibb car Yenko or others. you knew it had all the right parts.

[davenkc]

Belair62
Maybe I can kill 2 birds here with one stone.

A few posts back on the subject of known Chevelle f/c I mention a couple. Also mentioned "3rd gen" Bodies like the 68-72-74 Chevelles were almost non existant but there was a Poniac or 2 Like the M/T. As luck would have it I ran across a pic of it last night. thought you might like to see it. After seeing your interest in the Grey Ghost.
Dave
scan by Dennis Doubleday
Built by " Lil' John " Right menmyfcs?

[JoeC]

Bruce Larson ran a cool looking 66 or 67 USA-1 Chevelle with those crazy looking forward bent injectors.

[Mr70]

Any idea as to why the 64-67 Chevelles had Funny Cars formed and the 74 did,but not the A-body 1968-72 Chevelle?

[whitetop]

mr 70
Not 100% sure about this but this answer is probably pretty close. Weight &amp; Size. Unlike the Super Stock ranks which were broken out by class, the F/C class in the '68-'72 time period I believe just ran by a minimum weight requirement(I'll say 1800 lbs for argument sake)) so why disadvantage yourself by running a heavy 2200 lb '70 chevelle barge when you can run a small Vega or sleek Camaro weighing 1800 lbs and still be legal? Also the earlier Chevelles while called F/C were that in name only-still looked stock bodied in a way. They were very unlike the later flip top Funnies.
Dave

[menmyfcs]

You hit on one of my best subjects. In reality. John built the 1st one that burnt up at Gainesville 73 then the next one that was also Yellow Which became the Black car that was crashed at Union Grove 4th July 74. then it went to Romeos shop on Pulaski and 103rd?and got the front frame from the firewall forward replaced then ran the rest of the year as the red car to become the Marines blue car for 75.I have some good pics of those.
Yes the bodies for the later Chevelles became to big.
Body for that Grand am was by Pelligrini then modified by Hank Buck in Berwyn Ill. Red car also painted by Hank.

[davenkc]

Good answer, Exactly why the "flip top" all fiberglass body came into being displacing the "door cars" (ie)Cars like Dick's 67. Steel or "real cars" rear clip with glass components front end doors etc. The weight and as is said today aero. The older cars could still be made to compete but more hp created the problem with available traction.
The evolution of the funny car had begun.
Yes Bruce Larson is another who had a 66-67 Chevelle. And with more thought I am not sure if it was Bobby Wood as I said or Jim Maybeck. Malcom Durham early on I believe to.
But I never saw a 68-72 Chevelle f/c.
enough for now
Dave

[davenkc]

menmyfcs
Yes I thought you would recognise that one :-).
I saw a pic of it as it is today. MT's daughter has it not for sale in a collection of his cars (not complete)
Never seen that car run but did look at it somewhere when it was black. I really liked that car never knew just how quick it was until now. 6:16&amp;6:17 back to back 28 years ago?
I am very impressed.
Dave

[Mr70]

Dave &amp; Dave
Thank You.
You both answered my question,with Whip Cream on top!
It all makes sense now. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[menmyfcs]

Dave,
Do you remember anything about Dick and someone flying a plane thru the St. Louis Arch? You guys really missed a nice car if you never got to see Bruce Larson's 65 Chevelle. I cut high school for the NHRA Winter Nationals that year. What a pretty car as were all of his. I still get a Xmas card every year from Bruce. Talk coincidence. I got an E mail from a friend of Lyndy Thompson's with the phone number of the guy who has the Yellow Grand Am body. He also has the Pinto body and the 1 69 Mustang. He and Lindy are going to build a replica chassis under the Yellow body. NOW Back to Dick Harrell items. Valerie tells me that Mrs.Tom Jacobsen sent this, &amp; told Valerie that it was one of Dicks Early cars.Any Ideas?

[hvychev]

menmyfcs, tell me about Hank Buck from Berwyn IL. That is where I was born and raised. Where was his shop? I lived there for 21 years.

As far as Dukes goes, they are still located on 87th and Harlem. The street you are refering to as Archer is actually Harlem although Archer was a popular crusing street in Chi-town back in the day. From what I hear only lowriders frequent Dukes now. That is a shame because I have fond memories of Dukes as my father used to take me there when I was a single diget old lad in the 1980's. I have many of pictures of myself in front of various muscle cars and street rods there back then. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

[menmyfcs]

Hank Buck had a place called Ogden Auto Body. He was a guy that loved racing. He was always repairing and fixing someones car.In the early 70s there were a lot of funny cars that were having fires. Hank was the guy that could fix it. He put a front end On the MT Grand Am and repainted the whole car in 73 then in 74 he chopped and re did the bodies of both the Black M/T Grand Am and the Red one as shown.He also painted the red one along with many of the Chi Town Hustlers.Hank died of a heart attack while working for Joe Pisano in 90 I think. Yes Harlem.Why Archer comes to mind I am not sure.Hey Im in my 50s now.That was a long time ago.
I hope this Dick Harrell paper clipping comes out. its pretty old. I am going to look and see if I can pinpoint the date fromthe acticles on the back. Yenko guys should like this.

[menmyfcs]

The article that would not scan very clear was from a St. Louis paper July 1967. Paper and the print are both pretty yellow.Head Line Reads
Harrell's Plan for East St Louis
"SUPER CAMARO CAPITAL OF THE WORLD"

[davenkc]

menmyfcs
I have seen that car before. In the background that looks like his 63 Z-11.The black car is one I saw him match racing at the old KC strip against one of the (remember this) $ites Bro$ hemi cars. This is the car that had one of the first "new" 427 that I ever saw, (Back when it was called The Mystery engine) I think! I always wondered if this was his own car or not. I never asked him.
I dont think this is the 64. Hard to tell from the side.
YES I heard the story about the arch!!! Was that you???
HAHAHAHA what a hoot! Man thats been a long time ago.
PS
I figure for a positive id best would be Charlie T or maybe Tommy McNeeley. They go back that far with Dick. Would you send me that pic I will blow it up and see if I can make out the name above the door.

Dave

[Belair62]

Neither car is a 64 in that pic...

[menmyfcs]

I am betting 63.That is whenthe Z11 was coming about (I think) I never cared for the 63. 62 was the 409 still.Just looking at the fenders makes me think 63. WT!60 something /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

That is a great article for trying to establish a time line for the Dick Harrell shops.
The article states he set up a shop in New Mexico in 1965 but gave up operation of that shop to do more racing in 1966. Then says he set up the hi po program for Nickey "last year" meaning sometime in 1966?
This article is dated July 67 and states that Dick's shop was presently in service station on St. Claire Ave. in St. Louis and ground will be broken for a new 16 car garage at St. Louis International raceway in East St. Louis with opening planed for Oct 67.
The receipt from Harrell and Sanders Automotive on 411 East Church Street
Carlsbad, New Mexico is dated 8-1-67 but has the Sanders name and the address crossed out. We know the deal with Don Yenko was in progress at this time.
Dave recalls moving to the shop on Hickman Mills drive in KC. (winter/spring 67-68)
So it appears that he may have never opened this new Super Camaro shop that is mentioned in this article at the St. Louis drag stip in Oct 67? What do the Harrell Historians think?