Copo Production & Survivors

[Stefano]

I have a few questions; 1) What is the 'official' number of 1969 Camaro L-72 Copos Built ? 2)How many of these cars are documented and survive today? 3) How many of said Copos are registered with the supercar registry?

[COPO]

I'll take a stab at questions 1 & 2. The actual number of COPO 9561's is not known most estimates are between 500 and 1,000 including the 198 Yenko Camaros. These figures are derived from an internal Chevrolet memo and the L-72 Camaro engine production records from the Tonawanda engine plant. As far as how many survive, one must keep in mind that many of these were driven hard with many of them raced. I would guess a 50% or less survival rate would be a reasonable guess. How many are registered? Rob??

[COPO]

here's a related link: http://www.copo.com/L72-History.htm

[Stefano]

Has anyone cross referenced RPOs to get another perspective on the L-72 Camaro Production.

[JoeC]

Another interesting topic on the COPO cars is the production numbers. Some people use the number total of 1338 COPO Camaros and COPO Chevelles as derived from the number of engines produced, to estimate the number of cars built. The engines were built on a forecast of car production and I believe it is too easy to over estimate car production using engine production (for COPOs) since it can be up to 98% inaccurate. There were situations where engines were assembled and stamped with a code for a car that very few were built. If you use engine production to estimate that particular cars production number you would be way off. An example is the 1969 ZL1 Corvette where over 100 engines were built and code stamped and 2 cars were sold to the public.
According to Chevy service documentation there were 700 COPO cars "in process" on July 7, 1969, including ZL1's, Yenkos, COPO Camaros and COPO Chevelles. It is not clear what they mean by "in process" but July is very late in the normal production year. If you take the 700 COPO's and subtract the 69 ZL1's, 198 Yenko Camaros, and 99 Yenko Chevelles you get 700-69-198-99=334 remaining COPO Camaros and Chevelles built as of July '69. If you take the L72 engine numbers estimate and subtract the Yenkos you get 1338-198-99=1041. That would be 1041 L72 engines left after July '69 for all L72 COPO except Yenkos. That's a big difference between 334 cars "in process" and 1141 remaining engines.
If Chevy said there were 700 COPO cars "in process" on July 7, 1969, then they would have to have built 638 (1338-700=638) more COPO Camaros and Chevelles between Aug. and Nov. of 1969 to match the engine production number? I know the 1969 Camaros ran late into Nov.'69 but I have not heard of many COPO Camaros with a trim tag date of Aug. or later and no COPO Chevelles that late so I find it difficult to believe they could have made 638 COPO cars after July'69. Yenko was the king of L72 COPO cars with his 198 Camaros and 99 Chevelles. Burger sold 50 Camaros and about 10 Chevelles. Other hi po dealers like Byrne Brothers in NY sold maybe 10 COPO Camaros and a few Chevelles. So L72 cars sales were not big numbers. Both Don Yenko and Jim Mattison clearly remembered the number of Yenko Camaros built as 500. In my OPINION I think Chevy must have told them they needed to build a minimum of 500 in order to pay for engineering and assembly cost of the L72 COPO but this was for all Camaros not just Yenkos. I don't think they built many more then 500 L72 Camaros and 200 L72 Chevelles in 1969. Again this is just my opinion.

[Stefano]

JoeC:
How are these 'Tonawanda' production numbers reported? Is this based on the block casting number '512'or is this based on the Engine Pad stampings? Would this include C E blocks for warranty replacement and over the counter sales? If not then how many of these were produced?

Who is the keeper of this info., as it has been referenced often, but I have never seen official copy?

[William]

The keeper of the info is Fran Preve, who works at the Tonawanda engine plant. They retained production records for many years. In an April 1987 issue of Muscle Car Review he stated that 822 "MN" and 193 "MO" code 427 engines had been shipped, 1015 total. As these codes are unique to Camaro, it is indicative of a production level near that number. He stated that historically, installation rates were 2%-5% less than engines produced.

[Keith Tedford]

I read one time, an article by someone, that Fran Preve had a number of 358 427 engines destined for the Chevelle application. He had a figure of 10% for CE applications leaving 323 to go in cars. The best information I have is that 30 COPO Chevelles came into Canada. With the US having 10 times the population, you could figure on about 300 sold south of the border. That's 330 which is pretty close to the 323 figure. Just statistics but interesting. From what I have ever seen, engines came into the Oshawa assembly plant with the Tonawanda, McKinnon etc info already stamped on them and we added the vehicle VIN. As an example, and MP 427 would come with the flex plate installed. The MQ engine would have its flywheel and clutch assembly installed. While not answering the original question it is part of the puzzle.
As for survivors, I can come up with five survivor COPO Chevelles and one Yenko Chevelle here in Ontario alone.


[Edited by Keith Tedford (11-01-2001 at 03:23 AM).]

[Stefano]

Keith:

In my opinion, the Canadian production numbers are disproportionate to the population , as compared to the USA.

There were more built ,in Canada for Canadian consumption, percentage wise.

This is mainly because the Tonawanda plant is so close to the border. News about the COPOs traveled very fast. Sometimes those in the know had to educate the ordering dealerships. GM ties are very strong in that region. What do you think?

[JoeC]

I agree that a larger number of COPO cars went to Canada as a percentage of total. Many US dealers had no knowledge of the L72 Camaro and Chevelle. I believe the only 2 LT1 1970 Novas not used in the Yenko Deuce program went to Canada?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

JoeC;
That is the correct story on the COPO Novas in Canada. Central ordered 10 cars, but only received the Cortez Silver car and a Forest Green car. The Green car is gone.
M

[Chevy454]

As in "gone", does that mean we lost track of it, or does that mean it went to the great recycling plant in the sky?

Doesn't some bearded Canuck own that silver car http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif? I heard he might have another car or 2...

[Edited by Chevy454 (11-02-2001 at 08:05 AM).]

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

'Gone' as in.... COPO Pete has to fill in the details!! He is the lucky owner of the Silver COPO, and has done the research ont he Green COPO. Pete's silver car has a body number which is in between the two blocks of bodies that went to Yenko, and I believe that the green car had a body number that preceded Yenko's first order!!
M

[Keith Tedford]

All the Ontario COPO Chevelles that I have info on were built in Baltimore. None in Oshawa. We found out about the COPO deal in January or February of '69 through a friend who worked in the GM Oshawa main office. Three of us bought one of these cars but I know of no others that were bought in the Oshawa area. Belmont Chev-Olds in Toronto, Central in London and a few other dealers seemed to know about these cars as well. The dealer we bought through had to take the COPO 9566 number and check to find out that it was available. There seemed to be no problem ordering these cars IF you knew about them. No one at GM was waving a big flag or anything like that to advertise.