COPO question .

[hugger1]

Other than the well known Camaro's , Chevelle's , Nova's , are there other COPO cars ?
what about Vette's ?

The reason i ask is i was at Floyd Garrett's and he had a car there listed as a COPO.
I believe it was a 69 Caprice WAGON , maybe a Impala Wagon , ( sorry , i cant remember ).
it was White with the Woodgrain sides and the 427 in it and i believe had the base steel wheels with Dog Dish caps.
The car was spotless and with Low miles too if i remember right.

I was courious if anyone else has seen this car.

[SS427]

This question has come up on some of the other boards regarding the big cars and has never really been answered. The general concensus is that they would not be considered a COPO because of the fact that these cars had the 427/425 on the option list anyway. They could also be ordered with pretty much any speed part and those were on the option lists as well. I quess a ZL-1 or L-88 Impala would be considered a COPO but I have never heard of any.

My '69 SS427 Impala convertible was supposedly ordered with the 427/400 3-deuce engine in it. The engine was delivered with a 4 bbl and not the 3-deuce intake. I have never found any proof to this other than the original owners statement (I bought from him in 1979) and the fact that the engine had strange GM cast pistons (unlike stock 390 or 400 horse) and 7/16 pushrods and guide plates. Unfortunately, the engine was hurt in 1981 and changed before the numbers days mattered!!!

One other oddity on the car is underneath the Chevrolet script on the trunk is a bar that resembles the 66-67 427 Turbo-jet emblem found on Corvettes. However it is void of flags and is simply the bar. Many people have stated that this is nothing more than someones handiwork (in 1979?). I also ran across and photographed another '69 SS427 in a used car lot in Phoenix back in about 1984 with that exact same emblem. Unfortunately, I did not make note of the assembly plant to see if it was the same as mine. I still have the photos somewhere.

[Edited by SS427 (02-20-2002 at 10:19 AM).]

[Rat_Pack]

Hugger1, I have seen this car a number of times while up at Floyd's. I am usually there at least once a month just to see what is new. About 2 weeks ago I was up there and I made it a point to look at the window sticker and it is not a COPO as the "display board" says. The L72 was a normal RPO that was ordered on this car. Did you happen to notice the picture of the car from a magazine article that was taped to the window? The car in the picture had a dark colored painted top at one time and this one does not. Same car? Yes. This car has been somewhat restored at one time and has a very good repaint, if you look closely you will find places of overspray. Not knocking this car as it is a very nice piece but I would not bank on it being totally original. Also the window sticker has been re-applied to the window as the car in the picture shows that it is not even there...................RatPack.............

[hugger1]

Hey Rat-Pack .

Do you live close to there ?

I too stop in quite often , when i am in town .
My Mother lives in Sevierville about 15 minutes away , RIGHT BY 411 Drag strip.

I did see all the info but dont remember the specifics, I WILL LOOK CLOSER NEXT TRIP .

I was actually looking at the RED 69 Floyd had there and the Green Z28 that was next to it.
I took several shot for details i was interested in.
I'm usually down there 1 , sometimes 2 times a month and enjoy seeing the cars he has as well.
So if its Not a COPO , why advertise it as such .

SS427 - I might be wrong but i think a guy i know in Bloomington INDIANA had a 427 impala and i believe it had the Bar emblem like your describing.
His name is Don Hawkins and he had the car at INDY Super Chevy 2 yrs ago , It was for sale in the car coral and was a low milage car but in need of a restoration also.
His car was a Goldish color and a Covertable also .

I'm not positive but i will try to get hold of him and try to verify this....
I know he had a # of pics of this car .

He sold it for around $5500.00 AS IS. if i remember correctly.

[Stefano]

As far as COPO Corvettes go, there were as Corvette Guys call them "Big Brake" and "Big Tank" or "Tanker" Coupes made. A minimum production quantity of larger gas tanks was produced in order to meet homologation racing requirements.

I do not know off hand if this was listed as a standard RPO.

The Corvette Guys lurking in the shadows can chime in. We know your out there.

[Edited by Stefano (02-20-2002 at 11:38 PM).]

[JoeC]

Here is an old reply I made to a similar question;

The term "COPO Car" or "Coh Poe Car" as some people call it, has developed into a muscle car buzz word. Today it is normally used to describe a specially ordered limited edition high performance Chevrolet product such as the 1968 Nova SS 396/375 TH400, the 1969 ZL1 Camaro, the 1969 427/425 Camaro and Chevelle, or the 1970 LT1 Nova. The history is not exactly all clear but from what I can tell the origin of the COPO term is from the Chevrolet Central Office which was a Division of GM. A department in the Central Office was the Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Department that processed the paper work for the sales and marketing of Chevy Special Vehicles. These special vehicles were not normally hi performance but may have been telephone trucks, taxi cabs, police cars, etc. Among these normally utilitarian vehicles were some hi po cars built to race. Chevy built special cars for racing as far back as 1957. The Chevy Central Office printed a book called "1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide." This book told you how to order a 57 Chevy 150 Sedan with hi po cam, pistons, and even Corvette FI. All parts were RPO so the term COPO was not used but the book was published by Chevrolet Central Office. I have a copy of this book and it actually shows how to prepare a race car. I have read that Smokey Yunick had helped Chevy with this book. The next year I have in my notes was 1962 when Chevy wanted to run a competitive drag car. The hot ticket back then was to use aluminum parts to build light weight cars. Chevy built some aluminum front ends for the Impala/Belair sold as service parts and some people say that a few 1962 Impalas were built at the factory with alu nose and a special 409 with a 1963 Z11 type intake manifold on the 409. This may have been some type of COPO car (not sure). In 1963 the 427 Z11 was built using RPOs and 50 or more were made to qualify it for NHRA competition. The next car I have notes on is the special order Corvairs that Don Yenko bought to build his Yenko Stingers to race in SCCA where a minimum of 100 were required. In 1968 Yenko special ordered some COPO Camaros with 140 speedometers and other options but the facts on this car are not all clear. Then came the fifty 1968 COPO Nova 396/375 TH400 cars ordered by Fred Gibb and Dick Harrell. Then the 1969 427 ZL1 and L72 cars. In 1970 Yenko ordered a COPO LT1 Nova and there was a COPO number for a special big Camaro rear spoiler that became standard in 1971. There is some evidence that Yenko ordered a COPO Vega in 1971 but not many facts on this car. The hi po COPO cars as they are known today were ordered to "beat the system." Using the COPO process you were able to get a non SS big block 427 car or special trans and rear end or an alu motor or other parts not available using the normal order process.

[Mr70]

That 427 Kingswod Estate Wagon is featured in Jan.2000 Muscle Car Review.

[Rat_Pack]

Hugger1, I am right down the road from her about 10 miles away. Check your emails and look at the picture I sent you.............RatPack...........

[jon rand]

That 427 Kingswood Estate Wagon was for sale in car craft for $5,500 and listed as a COPO there was also a 71 BM Vega for $8,000 that ran 10.20s 1/4 mile. to bad this was a 1976 issue. If we only knew then what we know now.

[Tom Hendricks]

I've been around a lot of Corvettes and I can't say that I've ever really seen a COPO Corvette. However I have seen some strange combos of options and paints that may have come through the Central Office. I've learned never say never on Corvettes though. Just when you think you've seen it all.........................

[TimG]

Corvettes ordered with the L88 and ZL1 options were COPO cars. Big tank cars were not COPO cars, this was regualr production option NO3. Some special colors were COPO options, you may have had to push very hard to get this through. One example is a 1967 Corvette, silver exterior with red interior.
This combination was not considered available, a few were built on a COPO basis.

[Mr70]

Welcome Tom Hendricks..what took you so long. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[hugger1]

There is a Corvette listed for sale here locally and advertized as a possible "PHASE III" Corvette

Is this a Baldwin Motion car ?

What exactly is a PHASE III CAR ?

[Kurt S]

L88 and ZL1 were RPO's. No COPO order was required for an RPO. May have required the Central Office to approve (the special color combos did require this), but they did not require any additional engineering so thus did not get a COPO # assigned to them.

[Denis]

hugger1, see http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/corvette/69Baldwin

[Tom Hendricks]

Thanks Rick:

I must have been sleeping. I never knew you guys were here partying without me. Looks like a good place to learn more stuff !!

[Edited by Tom Hendricks (02-26-2002 at 07:48 AM).]

[JoeC]

QUOTE.."but they did not require any additional engineering so thus did not get a COPO # assigned to them."

I would disagree with this because there may have been different types of special paint. Some early Camaros had special paint but it was no more then deleting the mandatory nose stripe on an SS. This may not have required processing by the COPO system. When a car received a complete color change to a non standard color, I believe it would require approval through the COPO system. Jim Mattison recalled in his interview that he did paperwork for some strange colors requested by Chevy dealers. Also I have seen Chevelle build sheets with special paint that have some COPO type numbers on them. Some special paint 1970 Chevelles have been found with strange numbers stamped on the trim tag.

[Stefano]

There are people like Jim M. who were there, so I just want to clearify my understanding(I don't know I wasn't there).
It would be highly unlikely to get the Central Office to process a single special request ,not that it couldn't get done for the likes of, lets say Pete Estes, but unlikely for a single vehicle. Usually it would require at least a few???

[Jim Mattison]

Guys, I don't mean to stir the pot, but the '69 Kingswood Wagon at Floyd Garrett's did come through the Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Department (COPO)!

Most think that all COPO cars had some very special equipment on them, like the '69 Camaros and Chevelles with the L72-427 engines. However, a COPO could also be a car (or truck) with a non-recommended combination of RPO equipment. Remember COPO stands for Central Office Production Order.

Some examples are: "stripe delete" on Z-28s and SS models, non-recommended color/trim combinations, black painted 1970-72 Corvettes and even the L72 engine in a full-size Chevy wagon required a special "ok" to get built. We also processed tons of special paint orders for customers.

The Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Group had the authority and power to tell an assembly plant to build most anything (assuming that it was buildable). Many of the vehicles that we built were single orders, something that we could not do today!
I even remember building a '69 Corvette for one of the guys at the office with an L88 hood on a Corvette with the L36 (390 hp) engine.

I am going to try and get out to more events this year and put some of the myths about what the Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Department (COPO group) did and didn't do. It is a very interesting story and a high point in my automotive career!

Jim Mattison

[Stefano]

Thanks Jim,
Nothing like getting it right from the 'Horses Mouth'!

[Mr70]

Jim M.
Any chance of you speaking at this years Supercar show in Collinsville Il. or the ACES Chevelle show in Goodletsville Tn. this June?
I would enjoy a book written by you on this very subject alone!
Rick

[Belair62]

Jim,when was Cental Office created ? Was this department used only for Chevrolet brand ? Did other GM units have this type of department ? I e-mailed you a year or so ago about the aluminum front end on a SD Pontiac in which I asked how some cars got aluminum and some got steel. You indicated it was customer preference and there was no cost difference for aluminum. These cars had to have a higher approval so thats why I wonder if there was a COPO type office within Pontiac.

[Edited by Belair62 (02-28-2002 at 04:07 PM).]

[Mr70]

I didn't think COPO was Chevrolet specific,but all the GM line,Chevrolet-Buick-Pontiac-Olds?

[Jim Mattison]

Every division of General Motors had there own way of handling special vehicles, but the term COPO (Central Office Production Order) was unique to Chevrolet Division.

As for the Supercar show in Collinsville, Il in June, Tom Clary has been after me for several years to attend. I'll look at my schedule and see if I can make it. It sounds like a good time!

Jim Mattison

[Kurt S]

I differentiate between a COPO package and a Central Office approval.
A COPO package required a special combination of features and included delete and add instructions for the plant and was assigned a COPO #.
A COPO approval was 'build it without stripes or in this color or with this RPO' type of thing. No COPO # was assigned.
I believe I've seen Central Office approval mentioned in GM documentation. COPO packages are not.
The COPO's have a COPO # on the build sheet because they were a package. Never seen a special paint car with a COPO # on the build sheet, just the special paint instructions.

Comments Jim?

[Stefano]

Kurt,
What then is a car with a "COPO" option listed on the Build Sheet, like an L78 Camaro with XT coded wheels?

[Kurt S]

"What then is a car with a "COPO" option listed on the Build Sheet, like an L78 Camaro with XT coded wheels?"

The standard wheels on all SS's were XT's. So I'm afraid I'm missing your question.

[JoeC]

I would guess there were COPO numbers for special paint. GM Production Control was a big operation and seemed to have forms and numbers for everything. There was a magazine article showing a copy of a COPO form which I copied and enlarged trying to read it. I sent a copy of it to Jim M and an ex Chevy engineer a few years ago asking if they remember it. Jim replied it is a "GSD-578" form. The title is "Request for Central Office Special Production Authorization." I was told by a restoration guy who worked on the Otis Chandler cars that Otis did a lot to get documentation from Chevy. As the LA Times publisher, Otis Chandler had some good connections with high level GM managers and had requested their help in researching the COPO cars. The guy said Chevy gave a pile of paper copies to Otis.
here is the COPO form GSD-578

http://members.aol.com/yenkochevelles69/images/copoformx.jpg

[COPO PETE]

As far as I can tell on the special paint deal on the COPO Chevelles is this. On both the Hugger Orange (Monaco Orange), and Daytona Yellow cars, on the GM microfilms it lists the option as ZP3. On the build sheets, both coloured cars have the 1001HA, which would be the COPO # I believe for special paint. The orange cars appear to have a 81082 # beside it and the yellow have 81072 beside it.
Peter

[Mr70]

I wanted to share these codes.
A 1970 Chevelle LS-6 buildsheet painted Special Order Monaco Orange,Arlington plant,Typed across center of buildsheet in one line:"F&SO R0066 1001HA Hood,Fenders, And Entire Body-926499616 Orange Acrylic Lacquer"

Here is a 1970 Chevelle LS-5,Atlanta Plant with Special Order Paint.Typed across its buildsheet:"Hood,Entire Body,Frt.Fenders 927-98457 Gold Metallic Acrylic Lacquer Wheels.767-98457 Gold Metallic baking Enamel.1734AA Tags SC Tricentennial Bypass code 2 Bypass code 2."
This car had its SS wheels painted Gold from the factory.

[Edited by mr70 (03-01-2002 at 05:15 PM).]

[Kurt S]

Pete,
The 1001HA code is for special paint and it was used for several years. Shows up on the window sticker too. Actually have seen a couple different suffixes...
The other code is the paint code.

[A69COPO2]

COPO PETE & Kurt S.....I don't really agree fully with you......on the COPO code use of #1001HA...for 1969 anyway......I don't think it was use specific for Specail Order PNT, unless all RPO Colors were part of this also....I have quite a few 1969 COPO Chevelle build sheets and the Canada Receiving sheet, for lack of better words....with 10 COPO Chevelle's on it....I don't think it has anything to do with "ZP3 SPCL ORDR Paint colors, of Orange or Daytona Yellow(Bright Yellow)......All these build sheets/Canada receiving sheet have the 1001HA typed on them. In this format; B1795 1001HA 9566AA(FOUR SPEED),this is my COPO Chevelle,it's Fathom Green and a RPO color. The B1795 is the special order #FB1795, located on the build sheet and the bottom line of the trim tag.


COPO PETE....I believe your COPO Chevelle is B1072 1001HA 9566AA. Your SPEC ORDER #FB1072, should be there also, however the B1072, on your trim tag might have an "8" stamped on/near the "B" also?? for what ever that means, any input for the "8" anyone?

......I fully agree with your statement of Code "ZP3" being for Specail order Paint.

mr70......Don't know what to say about the"GOLD Wheels" LOL

Just my opion and/or input, though, regards,MIKE

[COPO PETE]

Mike, you are correct. The 8 in my code is actually a "B". Never paid close enough attention I quess.Yours is the third car I've heard of with a "8" stamped in the firewall tag. Interesting is that the cars coming to Canada are always listed in vin order on the sheet. The one car here with the 8tag should have been on that sheet, but was not. GM of Canada had a tough time finding it to verify it for the owner. The other one I know of falls just past my sheet #'s so I can't tell if it was posted later or not. Makes me think the cars with the 8 were short on a certain part and set aside till the parts came in. The two cars here are 64 vin's apart. GM of Canada list ZP3 as special paint and the 1001HA as special paint.
Peter

[Chevy454]

Now we are getting somewhere...tell me about this trim tag:
<FONT size="4">

</FONT s>

[Edited by Chevy454 (03-03-2002 at 01:44 PM).]

[Chevy454]

I edited the above post, using the UBB "code" tags, which maintains the same spacing as when you type it up (like I used on the trim tag I posted). Does that look pretty close? If not, just edit it, but leave the code tags.

[9566 BA]

My orange COPO has a 9 in the right corner of the cowl tag and an 8 in the same place as everyone else has below the build date and the special order #.
<FONT size="4">
</FONT s>


[Edited by sYc (03-03-2002 at 05:54 PM).]

[copo9566aa]

a Canadian SS Chevelle Hugger Orange Tag

<FONT size="4">
</FONT s>


[Edited by sYc (03-03-2002 at 05:57 PM).]

[JoeC]

The numbers in the upper right and the "8" in the lower left of the trim tag, I have seen on other Chevelles besides COPOs. I have seen numbers in the upper right that looked like they were stamped on the trim tag after it was installed on the cowl.
Rob's Yenko Chevelle has an "S" for Midnight Green vinyl top. This is the only Grn top I have seen on a Yenko Chevelle. There does not seem to be as big of a data base of trim tag numbers collected for the Chevelle as for Camaros and Corvettes. I am not sure what the "8" is for. It had to be for something where the operation had to be done during Fisher body assembly before it went to the main assembly line.

[Tom Hendricks]

Jim, did cars that were ordered for high level execs get any kind of special order treatment? I have a 72 Malibu 400 that was ordered for Zora Duntov's wife. It was shipped to the Tech Center in Warren, Mi. It was ordered through Penske Chevrolet.

[A69COPO2]

OK, here's my trim Tag info. Mine also has the # in the upper Right hand corner as well as the "8".

7>>>>>>>>>>
ST69 13637 BAL283042 BDY
TR 796 57 57 PNT
07CB1795 B M206750
8

The bottom line is the most important of all lines.

Breaks down as follow; 07C:June third week
B1795: is the special order #, refer to your build sheet, block #60 and #107
B: I have no idea
M206750: all I know is that the 750 is hand written in block#24 and was on the fire wall, rear end top and frame, just before the right rear spring brace. The M20 isn't for my trans, because it's an M22 Car, block #7 shows "XI", which is for the M22.

The Trim tag for the SS Chevelle, will show a few options, which is very nice to know, if you look at the info that copo9566aa supplied for the car.

A51:Strato Bkt Frt(bucket seats)
D55: center console
B79:exterior trim(SS 396)
L34:396/350hp
M40:TH400 auto

So if I'm right, if the other three would check there build sheets and written #, it too..will be on there's as well.

As for the 1001HA, well, I hate to be the banker here, but I have at least one build sheet, for a 69 COPO Chevelle, that has the 1001HA, with a RPO paint code of (51),Dusk Blue, this car is special order #6B1603 1001HA 9566AA. There is nothing out of the norm, for this COPO Chevelle, by the build sheet.

Any one else on the Board, have a 1969 COPO Chevelle, would like to share there info, we just might be able to figure this out.

COPOPETE, I have your's LOL, however it would be nice to know what your trim tag shows.

[JoeC]

I have only seen the 1001HA on special paint car's build sheet. With one exception which is the build sheet for the dusk blue COPO that you mention. This is a weird build sheet. In box #44 it has 51 51 for upper and lower body color but then listed in the RPO box it has CO8 vinyl roof. Something does not look right with this build sheet.

[copo9566aa]

<FONT size="4">
</FONT s>
Stephane Copo Tag

[Edited by sYc (03-03-2002 at 02:33 PM).]

[Edited by copo9566aa (03-05-2002 at 03:23 AM).]

[copo9566aa]

Hi All
The Chevelle COPO 9566aa of my friend Stephane have a 8 stamped in the
firewall tag on the bottom left corner of the tag.And a 18 in the top
right corner of the tag.
This COPO 9566aa Chevelle is a Canadian car with Special Paint
(Daytona Yellow) and GM canada paper show ZP3
The digit 8 and the 18 is a little bit bigger than the other digit.
Other Copo Velle have a digit in the top corner ?????
if it can help you.

[Edited by copo9566aa (03-05-2002 at 03:39 AM).]

[COPO PETE]

I have a copy of an original window sticker.List it as 01001HA, Special paint. $26.71
Peter

[Chevy454]

Well, true to form, I ended up with an "oddball" car! The only Y-Chevelle with green top, huh? I guess it would be a crime to leave it off when I restore it then! I was half-way considering it, since I'm not a real big vinyl top fan, but since that's how it's supposed to be, then it shall be. My '72 big block Cheyenne has almost the exact same color combo...they will look good together.

Now, fellas, tell what the rest of the numbers on my tag mean!

[JoeC]

Rob, I think the Fathom Green with Midnight green top will look great with white Yenko stripe. Now "all" you have to do is get the resto done.

[Chevy454]

Joe:

I agree...I need to get with the program and get the Chevelle done...but dad keeps mumbling something about how a certain Nova comes first http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/crazy.gif!

[Edited by Chevy454 (03-05-2002 at 09:31 AM).]

[IRONCLAD]

DISREGARD THIS MSG

[Edited by IRONCLAD (03-05-2002 at 02:59 PM).]

[9566 BA]

Joe C
On my cowl tag the number in the right corner looks like it was stamped before they put the tag on . It was punched with the number facing the same way as the rest of the tag . You can tell it wasnt in the fixture when they stamped it because its not very straight and it hits the B and the Y in the BDY on the tag.

[copo9566aa]

9566BA
your COPO BAL289486 Stephane COPO BAL289492
two special paint COPO - -

[9566 BA]

copo9566aa
My # is M211415 is yours close to that? It seems that the cars were only 6 cars apart on the line. I assume yours is 4 speed. also on box 24 in my build sheet it is hand written the number 415 which is the last 3 numbers of the #s following the M on the cowl tag.

[copo9566aa]

9566BA
No, the number starts similar M21XXXX but the other numbers are not similar.
Stephane COPO is a M22 car.Bucket seat(A51)
on the shoulder harness have a date
May 6 1969 235 and Model 3.900 24K69
and 3.950 27K69 ???

[Edited by copo9566aa (03-06-2002 at 07:26 PM).]

[A69COPO2]

copo9566aa; so you see what I was saying, about that #.......pretty neat stuff, if you look at your build sheet and look at all the other parts, in this case, the trim tag.....I started this as soon as I bought mine......it's still sleeping......haven't had the chance to restore it yet......But I got a lot of NOS parts for her, LOL

It's a Fathom green(57 57), Dark Green Bucket seat(769) car, with the M22(XI), chamber exhaust(NC8), Tac/gages, console, lamp package and Floor mats.

Regards, MIKE