Do GM Records Exist?

[69L89396]

Does anyone know what happen to or did GM have the records on the first generation Camaros? Is anyone working on gitting this or did it ever exist?

[William]

I guess no one responded because this has been hashed out here previously. Chevrolet has never made a statement, I expect they could care less. Some Corvette guys were granted access to a storage facility and found records only back to the late '70s. It is a bit much to expect a Chevy to maintain hardcopy records on the millions of vehicles built in the last 35 years although I suspect the info could exist on mag tape. Just ferreting out the first-gen stuff (700,000 records) would be a massive, incredibly boring task.

[69L89396]

How did they get the Pontiac records and not the GM? If they exist, why won't they let someone sort through them?
I sometime wonder if they even exist! If they did wouldn't they have surfaced by now?

[Mr70]

My feelings on this.
The records don't exist from Chevrolet because they didn't care enough to keep accurate records back then,and they don't today.
Why?
Because Chevrolet is making 100's of thousnads if not Millions in the restoration market today.
All those Clone cars and undocumented Muscle cars are having Brand new emblems and parts put on them today.And who sells the License for all these parts...GM.
So buy coming forward with records (If they do even exist) to show who's car is real and who's is fake,Chevrolet will be losing BIG money and making there sales market much smaller then it is today.
This has everything to do with good Business sense,and not about the Love of the Hobby with them.
If these records do exist Today, (God I am tired of this rumor every year) no matter what they Charge these owners today for that documentation,it will be a small profit for them compared to what they are making on parts now with all these Clown Cars being made.
Chevrolet didn't build this many LS-6 Chevelles! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[JoeC]

Don't give up hope on Chevy records. At least some still exist. You have the GM of Canada records, the Yenko records, and the ZL1 vin numbers and info.
There may be more out there somewhere.
NICB has the original dealer and date for many cars.
Some Hurst Olds records were found.
I read about a guy who bought records from a Mustang assembly plant and can document some cars built at that plant.
There is the Pontiac Historical Service that was started by Jim Morrison who is listed as a moderator on this site
here is a link to PHS

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/PHSInfo.html

a link about Jim M
http://www.yearone.com/leader_ads/jimmattison.html

this is from Caddy web site
"Cadillac for the first time is releasing archive records for the purpose of funding the historical Cadillac Museum. Cadillac is now expanding the range of documentation offered for 1903-1970 models, to include copies of Salesman's Data Books, Operation Manuals, Optional Specifications, etc. Sorry, 1968 record sheets are NOT available. A list of available additional documents for the car will be included or may be requested by mail at no cost.
To receive a copy of the original Build Sheet and Historical Package for your Cadillac or LaSalle Motor Cars 1903-1970, Send $50.00 payable by check or money order, along with your vehicle identification number, year, body number, and style number of your Cadillac or LaSalle To:
http://www.caddydaddy.com/cadhistpage.htm

[69L89396]

mr70,
I'm with you on this one that GM didn't care plus so many cars were built back then. I have always wondered from their stand point (GM) why would they want to keep these kind of records.

I find your option very interesting on the repro market. I have never thought of it that way.

[William]

Chevrolet did keep records for the length of the warranty period. I wrote them many years ago concerning a Z/28 I owned. I received a response from R.M Semanisin dated August 22, 1978 that stated in part:

"Unfortunately we are unable to assist you regarding your request inasmuch as the vehicle history file for 1969 has long been discarded."

No sinister plot here. They no longer needed the files and discarded them long before anyone was restoring the cars.

Don't compare Chevrolet to Pontiac. In those days Chevy had numerous plants and built far more vehicles.

[JoeC]

From what I have read Chevy did go by their own rules and did destroy records. During the Corvair/Nader lawsuits there was an in-house whistle blower who helped the prosecution's case. After that Chevy was more careful about holding records that would incriminate them in any new lawsuits. The reason I say to have a little hope for new records becoming available is because of the stories like what Caddy is doing and also the story about the guy who found boxes of Camaro build sheets. His dad took them home from his job on the assembly line. The son has a web site where you can look for your build sheet from his list of vins. There could be more new findings but it is only a slim chance.

[JChlupsa]

to bad there not for the 1st Gen Camaros but if you have a Norwood built 70 or 72 this page might help

http://www.nastyz28.com/buildsh.html

[Stefano]

The Rumor seems to cycle every so often. I always felt it was a liability/legal and distribution issue.

We all know that there are quite a few missrepresented vehicles,in the market place today.

First of all, if some,any or all did exist, how would the info. be distributed to the end user? Like William stated, Chevy sold quite a few more vehicles than the other divisions.

The work load entailed, by hitting the market all at once would be overwhelming. Pontaic Historical and GM of Canada have been at this for some time, so the demand for info. is not bottlenecked.

Most vehicles are plane Janes. It would take quite an effort Just to sift through any such records. William stated that there were almost 700,000 First Generation Camaros Built. Just think how long it would take to get through just those files?

[robber6910]

Joe, what is the name of that website this guy has in regards to the build sheets/vins?

[William]

And the work is boooooring. A friend owned a dealership, sold it in the '80s. We went through thousands of file folders with shipper's copies for Bel Air wagons, trucks, Chevelle sedans and a few Camaros, very few Corvettes. Chevy built around 2,000,000 vehicles in 1969 - imagine keeping track of that.

ZL1 VINs are known because a Chevy exec kept a hand-written file. Much of the Yenko documentation to date was also handwritten. Just recently some shipper's copies have surfaced.

[x44d80]

Over at www.camaros.net (http://www.camaros.net) a guy by the user name JohnZ who worked at GM said no records exist. He points out just how many cars were built and the warehouses GM would need to keep the paper. I often wondered if GM didn't transfer records to microfiche and store off site. I worked for a grocery chain in the early 80's and everything from mag tape was transferred to fiche and sent to a storage facility....

[69L89396]

Why would GM even spend the money and effort to keep records on cars that were sold? From their side it doesn't make sense to keep old records. What would be the purpose?

[JoeC]

Chevy did not keep the records on purpose but there may be some records that were put in storage and still exist simply because they were never thrown away. There may still be old storage rooms all over the country in old plants. Al Colvin found all the records for M22 transmissions shipped out of Muncie from 1965 to 1974. The records were in an area above the plant enclosed by chicken wire. He said there is also a similar area in the Central Office Records Retention Area.
How did Jim Mattison get all the Pontiac records?
Where did they find the old Caddy records?
I still have a little hope because I am amazed about old records that keep showing up on the Internet.
An example is Ellis Island in NY. More than 12 million immigrants passed through between 1892 and 1954 and they still have the records. They have them on a web site where you can search for your relatives names. I found some of my relatives on there and it even had the amount of money they declared when they arrived.

[MadMike]

I've heard - from someone I'd believe (was mentioned in this thread) the records, or some portion exists.
He believes the liability issue is the reason why chevy isn't falling all over itself to cater to us folks.
Imagine - as already mentioned, if every LS6 Chevelle and 68 Z28 owner, all 100,000+ of them start suing GM for the paperwork to verify their car? They'd need a new division just to deal with this headache.

The liability is just a guess. Maybe they're just lazy or don't care or the task to dig through this mess is not cost justifyable. The same person above said either he himself or an aquantance of his checked out a nova, where it was delivered and how it was equipped by making a phone call. He got his answer and was told not to call that number again.

Maybe chevy has their paperwork stored in a UFO? /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

The build sheet stuff is from Jody Prather, since it pertains to 2nd gens, I publicize the fact that he can dig these sheets up via my site (nastyz28.com). He's helped a couple of my guys get their build sheets.

[Denis]

Was it the dealer or the factory who sent out recall and/or service letters? Whoever it was had a good reason to keep a record of make, model, options, and owner.

Insurance companies also would've kept a record of the VIN, make and model, along with the credentials of the person named on the insurance policy. I wonder if the NICB might have more information available than just the dealer name?

[William]

Some of you have fertile imaginations.

If the liability issue does not bother Pontiac or GM/Canada why would it bother Chevrolet?

As for records there is a federal law requiring a label that specifies equipment and cost - read the bottom of the window sticker. This is for the "ultimate purchaser" who has a relationship with a dealer, not a manufacturer. Neither the dealer nor the manufacturer has any obligation to subsequent owners.

GM did and still may offer invoice copies for any vehicle up to 5 years of age I believe. I'm sure it is stored electronically making it a simple matter to retrieve the info.

How would one handle a warehouse with hardcopy records of the 2,000,000 vehicles Chevrolet built in 1969? Remember that 95% of the vehicles no longer exist.