66 Chevelle 396/375 conv lesson needed

[FESTIVAL78]

Hi guys. I need a quick lesson on 66 Chevelles (Camaro guy). It seems that a local has an X-drag car that I've been told is ss 396 w 375hp 4 sp convertible. It's very nostalgic with straight front axle, no inner fenders and faded drag car hand painted graphics, pinstriping. I want to see the car alone first and determine if it's legit before I approach the owner for negotiations. Who can tell me #'s and what to look for to make a quick determination if the car is legit? Thanks for any help. Tom. ( I'm disinterested in listening to the owners retoric until the last possible minute!)

[Norm reynolds]

here is a site with some info
http://cars.dozer.com/features/chevelle_history/chevelle_z16.html
also check on this bb at copo usa under Z-16

[FESTIVAL78]

Thanks for that. It looks like 375hp was not an option. I would like some insite on how I could "spot" identify the car as a factory bigblock. who knows what the engine suffix would be? Does this car have trim tag identifiers like my 67 Camaros? Also..Z16 1965 only?

[Norm reynolds]

The only thing I have is a 396 block for 1966 chevelle is a EG code 11.01 comp with a 4/speed and 3, 099 were made may be some one else has some more info
Norm

[JoeC]

I believe the vin will show if it is an SS. If it is an SS it has to be a big block unless built in Canada. Check Team Chevelle for more info. I don't know much on the 66.

[Stefano]

JoeC is correct the VIN 13867 will verify a Super Sport Convertible and an EG engine pad stamp would be correct for the 375hp 4 speed L78.

[FESTIVAL78]

Thanks..So there was a 375hp available that year. If the motor isn't correct will the 13867 suffice as proof of L78 or is that universal for all available bigblocks? Any special signs? Axle codes. fuel lines, dash gauge differentials?How about trim tag option codes?

[Stefano]

The vin will tell you if it is a Super Sport or not. It doesn't verify the L78 option.

All the additional items that you mention can provide clues, but not verify it as an L78.

If it was a straight axle Rag top racer from day one or two, it is unlikely that any of the components would be original to the car. Including possibly the frame.

[FESTIVAL78]

I agree. I saw this car two years ago at a gas station and checked it out quickly. This car is surely vintage and not cut up out back. it's paint is original and poor. It had a rollbar that was torched back out. The engine looked old with fenderwell headers. It has vintage drag stickers on the window from some track in upstate NY. I'm interested only because the other day I /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif drove by a side street and saw it outside with a small tarp covering just the soft top area. The car is going to fail where it is so I was thinking of approaching the owner. Printed out all the Team Chevelle tech and will swing buy on Monday for a mid-day snoop session. If anyone over the weekend can think of anything else to look for I'd appreciate it. Thanks again.

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

Looks like you got some good information...there's so much out there.... e-mail me if you need any additional help.

FYI....The L-78 in a 66 SS was not originally offered in the 66 Chevelle production year...just the base 325 hp engine and the Optional 360 Hp. Then later in the production year the 375 hp...L-78 was again offred and dealers received the inserts for their literature...( First offered in the very Rare, only 201 produced, 65 Chevelle Z-16's). The L-78 in a 66 SS rag top is a very rare bird for sure, given what we know alraedy, that only 3099 L-78's came off the line in the 66 Production Year...only 612 in 1967...

If the orig. engine is in the car, it will match the Vin on the door...also, the Trim Tag, if early...will help show it was not a real L-78, as again, not offerred early... The Knee- Knocker Tach, if still there, will be the 7,000 RPM version, like the 360 hp but with a slightly higher Redline.

No L-78 in 66 came with air either or as an automatic... Like I said, there are many ways to spot the fakes...

Nice topic

Later
Mike

[FESTIVAL78]

How can the trim tag help ID the motor & enlighten me about the knee-knocker tach. Underdash? horizontal plain? Thanks.

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

As I stated, if the TRIM TAG shows the car to be ...say a July or August built car...just example...then you can rule out that this car is a true L-78....as the L-78 was not introduced until later in the 66 production year....just using this as a guide is all...same with the Tach...if you believe the car to be an L-78 and it still has the orig. Knee-Knocker tach ( see my web site in my profile) than said tach would be the high redline and 7,000 RPM version, there were three tachs depending on engine....of course if the engine is there and it is stamped with suffix code as previously noted, then it's easy...easy to say if it is a TRUE L-78, but not that it is orig. to the car....that must be confirmed with the VIN tag on the door....hence MATCHING NUMBERs is the loose sense of the word /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

again, feel free to e-mail me as I am not a regular here and may not find myself here to answer your ?

Mike

[SS427]

Welcome aboard Mike (mysterychevelle). I thought I might get your attention with that link. Thanks for helping out and hang around a while. Great forum with good people that can use more imput and good people.
Rick

[JoeC]

Are the kill stickers from Dover Drag strip Wingdale NY.?

[FESTIVAL78]

Things are looking good, thanks guys for all the input. Joe C. I don't know about the sticker(s) as it was a while ago, but monday I'll take a photo of the car and try to post it (slow learner here!). Mike; trim tag..Now I get it! late in the year = good, early = bad (the slow learner thing again)Still hoping for that tell tale something from someone with regards to quick identifying. regardless, once I speak with the guy I'm sure this story will blossom one way or another..keep it coming.Thanks..T

[Mr70]

Red rover Red,rover,let MysteryChevelle Mike come over.
Welcome!Small world...Umm,I mean World wide web.
I like L-78 Chevelles too. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Stefano]

I think all L-78s are special and would love to someday own a Z16. The Z16 used a Hydraulic cam which did not allow for the revrange of the L-78 solid lifter engines.

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

Joe

I must be bored, or maybe it's b/c I missed the AACA national in VA due to Rain today...:) but when I hear talk of a rare 66 SS, however remote the possibility of it still having the orig. drivetrain....well, I can't stop hoping it is saved.

The 66 SS Ragtop will have, as stated earlier...a starting VIN Number which is UNIVERSAL...138676 followed by letter designating the assembly plant it was born from... ( I won't list all seven) and then the remining numbers will be the car's sequence number off the assembly line...ie., 138676Z177205 might be what you would see on the VIN TAG attached to the door ( Z indicates Fremont, Calif. built) then b/c each plant's starting VIN was with 100,001., this example would be the 77,205th car built at the Fremont plant for the 66 production year...remember the production year didn't start in January either., and this would represent all cars being built at this plant, not just Chevelles.

That little background is to set you up for what you will look for on the engine...specifically the passenger side of the block deck as it extends forward past the right cylinder head. This will, though it may be painted over or covered in grease and grime now, be stamped with alphanumerical characters, manually stamped to show the date of assembly of the engine followed by a two and possibly three letter suffix code which indicates the specific engine and trans., and then a final vehicle assembly plant code followed by the last several digits of the VIN...that sequence number I spoke of.

So, if you see the engine stamp...ie: T0614EG Z 177205

T = Tonawanda engine assembly plant in NY
06 = Month of June
14 = 14th day

EG = The Only code used for a 66 Chevelle SS with 375 HP engine.
Z = Fremont. California Assembly plant, as example only ( of the vehicle)

177205 = Sequence number as described above.

The sequence number on that engine MUST Match EXACTLY with that which is on the VIN TAG on the door for this to be the orig. engine to the car. If the engine has the EG code, but the sequence numver is different, then it's an L-78 but not from that car. Also, the Assembly plant code, Z in this case for Fremont, should match the door vin....NOTE HERE... the TRIM TAG has sequence numbers also, but these are Fisher Body sequence numbers, never try and match the Trim Tag numbers with those on the engine.... the trim tag will have the assembly plant noted and of course if the TRIM AG has Baltimore built and the engine has Fremont ( Z ) then you also know it's not original engine. TRIM TAG code for Fremont is not Z, it is BF...that can be confusing too...

ALL 66 SS Rags got the 138676 Vin and all hard tops got 138176.

All 3099 built L-78's got EG Engine code, none got air conditioning and none came as automatics.

One has to consider that the 375 HP engine was the top of the line high performance engine, most ordering this Bad boy, had plans for it and wasn't to go get groceries unless the grocery store was at the end of the drag strip /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif so keeping that in mind, when these cars were ordered, they also came equipped with a trans and rear to support that power and quest for speed...did I say 4 Speed...yes, I did...as in most likely a Muncie M-21 or if you really knew what you were doing ( 12 people did) an M-22 Rock Crusher 4 speed. Gear ratio in the L-78 would most likely be low, as in 4.10:1 Posi Ratio coded as KK on rear axle tube, 4.56:1 Posi coded as KM, or 4.88:1 Posi coded as KO. again just things to look for when trying to rule in the possibility of a real L-78.

Radiators also got tagged according to engine size/HP and if it still had the orig. Harrison Rad and still had the Tag attached to the inner upper tabk...look for a two letter code "VM" for 375 hp car.

The L-78 was cancelled on May 11th 1965. and as such was not part of the 66 Chevelle production options when the 66 production year started ( July/August 1965) and early sales literature doesn't mention the 375 hp either. but the L-78 was re-introduced into the chevelle line up on October 7th 1965 at a cost of $235.26 what a bargain eh!

The block was a 4 bolt main # 3855962
Heads # 3873858
Crank was forged steel
Mechanical cam
Aluminum intake Manifold
Holly 4 barrel carb
11.0:1 compression ratio

Now, where else can ya get that kind of free info but on the Net...

Good luck and I am now back into retirement mode...Later!

mike

[FESTIVAL78]

Wow Mike! With an answer like that I'm gonna feel guilty if it turns out 6cyl/Powerglide...I've got a good feeling about the car and at this point cannot wait till Monday. I'm a fan of the quick deal so if it starts going my way and the guy is standing there...Give me some ballparks on the car. The car has not one piece on it that I'd consider show so a full resto is required. Not to mention it has no original front suspension etc. It does have an interior (not gutted)..Throw two ball-parks at me..One for original drivetrain and one for lost engine/trans...I'm talking what I should offer not what it's worth... Thanks all...I don't know about this retirement stuff but I suggest coming out.T

[Mr70]

Mike, have another cup of Coffee. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[FESTIVAL78]

Hi all. The news isn't all bad (I guess). The car has gotten considerably worse. It is very wet and moldy. I'll give you guys the numbers and we'll see whats what. trim; 01B 185
66 13867 116
731 F2
the vin: 138676B136040.
Here's what I saw.. Intake and top of motor stolen. no vin on pad # is T06231VR. The car is under a tree with lots of wet leaves and mud. I can't sneak out of work and then show back up dressed in mud & scum, therefore no tranny or rear #'s (yet). The convertible top is power, the car was blue but is now silver. It has a four speed. Black interior. Does have rollbar, Bolted to floor with one bar rendering the passenger seat useless. The odometer shows 19634 but the car has rot (sitting outside rot more than driving rot. lower fenders lower doors blown through. The frame and under are too nice for big road miles. The straight axle has drums (of course) and spiral shocks. The name of the car (rear quarters) is Gentle Ben. the dash is painted with " driven by Glen Lorenzen" there are two 1/4 window stickers. One I cannot make out and the other says "1969 AHRA summernationals new york national speedway". It is not reasonable to consider that this car was street driven. The lower quarter says " artwork by Gill" Maybe someone knows of this car. Also I checked ebay for pricing. Not too high. Who's got suggestions on money to be offered. I think maybe this car should stay a nostalgia drag car? First it's got to get inside! Just got my camera back..will sneak over and try to post a picture. If anyone is hugely interested I'll email you one real quick as I do know how to do that at least! [email protected] Thanks all

[FESTIVAL78]

Got the photo's...Also; At the right side bottom of the trim tag is a lone "2"..Maybe I could e-mail the photos to someone who's good at posting???

[JoeC]

email them to me. Is the engine set back or in stock location?

[Schonyenko2]

My chevrolet by the numbers says Ivr is 1966 passenger 396, 325hp, turbohydramatic,rochester carb. Ken

[JoeC]

Here is one of the pictures. Looks like it just needs a little TLC.

[JoeC]

motor looks like it has small port heads

[whitetop]

Festival '78

Is the straight axle an aftermarket unit(psi, mas, challenger) or out of an old chevy van, 55-57 chevrolet truck etc
Any other old speed equipment on the car- gauges, what type wheels/
Dave

[JoeC]

more pics

[JoeC]

x

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

13867 is TRUE 66 SS Rag top.
B is Baltimore assembly Plant
36,040th car prodiced at that plany during that production year.

TRIM TAG

66 yep...1966

13867....redundit

116 internal plant tracking numbers...tells nothing of the car. as is 185

01B Second week of January 1966 Built car

731 Bright Blue Bucket seat interior

F2 Marina Blue Body Paint ( F) w/ Black Top ( 2)

Lone # 2 on Balt tags very common, as are a few other LONE Numbers like 4 and 3... and others...has not yet been definitively decoded, though it is not all to be associated with the car itself as much as work SHIFT code or Hour of day, many ideas have come across the tables....

T = Tonawanda Engine Plant
06 = June
23 = 23rd day
1 is most likely an "I"...66 used letter letter I instead of # 1 in engine cdes...very common.

IVR is not a 66 Chevelle engine suffix code, may be an Impala code or other Chevy, but not Chevelle in 66...sorry., all 66 and 67 SS Chevelle codes start with letter "E"

Price on this car...very very difficult to say without seeing it IN PERSON....but I can say, other than it being a RAG TOP...aint much there to write home about...

Spiral Shocks,,,,keepers

and a very rare ( I can see it and want it) Metal Finger Guard atop of the Radiator I would love to get the Rad too /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Offer $3000 tops if frame is good....and that's stretching it...IMO.

Lots O work there

Mike

[FESTIVAL78]

JoeC thanks for all your help with photos, Mike (the bearer o' bad news) thank you also. Whitetop: I have no clue the differences in the front axle but would be glad to check or take a dedicated photo and send it. Mike. from what I've heard, the guy has old cars everywhere and is eccentric (read, cares while not caring at all). I'm going to call him to negotiate the car if only to put it away dry. It's not my scene (straight axle drag cars) but I can appreciate it enough to keep. The car without the motor is too far gone to restore (money wise it's not a good idea) so maybe the nostalia resto would be the way to go. (lots of parts on teamchevelle by the way)If all doesn't pan out and I get the chance I'll early Christmas present you!T...does UPS ship stolen parts?

[FESTIVAL78]

Follow up......Spoke to owner....Words cannot describe the ignorance I have experienced...Bottom line..$8500.00 or " stop talking to me" You can write this car off for sure! Thanks all. Tom

[Jeff H]

That's why the car just sits and rots. Some people think they are sitting on gold and they're lucky if the outhouse floor doesn't collapse on them. Chalk it up as a good learning experience. At least he didn't chase you away with a shotgun.

[FESTIVAL78]

Yea, The shotgun is what I'm afraid of if I go back for the radiator and shroud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NOCOPO]

Hey Festival, Is that car here in Mass ? I have a lot of old contacts from the racing world here in the New England area. One guy actually remembers that car from the '70s. Gentle Ben, as he remembers, was not the original name. I will dig around a little further. Its a shame to see that just "dying" a slow death there with the owner clueless /ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif Some day it will be rescued. Email me with anymore info: [email protected] Thanks !

[FESTIVAL78]

PV Speed? Malden Mass? Still got that Crazy Vega from a bunch of years back? Yea I'll email you the street it's on. The problem with the guy is that he thinks he DOES know as opposed to doesn't know! My wifes from malden T

[NOCOPO]

Nope, Vega is long gone. Still in the blood though. Good talkin to a fellow New Englander. I will try to go by and visit that spot where the car is. I can do it on the way home some night. Will post any new lead or info. Yes, grew up in Malden all my life. Summered here in Lunenburg which is where I have lived for 6 years. I am at the Speed Shop a couple of times a month (mosyly to pick up parts my wife doesnt know about) /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[rat tuned]

I live south of boston but remember the shop that was in brockton. If the vega was the blown big block vega it still surfaces from time to time. I remember it was in a garage in raynham for quite a while. a buddy of mine was tracking a straight front axle chevelle that has been in this area. it was a 66-67 convertable that mandaville motors(whitman had purchased a while ago. about 1-2 years ago I thought I saw it at cruisin classics in taunton. my favorite car from PV was that blown black chevy 2. that car was sweet!!!

[Jay_chevelless]

Someone on Team Chevelle is looking for some info on this car
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388386