Interesting USA today article for investors

[SS427]

Got thislink form over at the Tean Chevelle site. I keep telling my customers to put their money into restorations and purchases as this is much more stable right now. Seems to be working. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002-08-05-old-cars_x.htm

[Chevy454]

Very interesting article, but did you see some of the prices they listed under "Photo Gallery" in the link A collection of muscle cars (http://www.usatoday.com/money/gallery/oldcars/flash.htm)? They show (in approximate values): '67 Corvette - $150k, '69 Camaro - $145k, '58 Corvette - $125k, '56 T-bird - $160k, '68 Mustang - $40k, '96 Viper - $50k, '67 Plymouth - $50k. Are these prices skewed, or did they possibly take the highest paid price from recent Kruse auctions? Or possibly they asked some of the locals around here what they thought some of their cars are worth, kinda like the $8k Stude-truck (that is rusted into the ground) outside of town here!

[SS427]

Rob,
I saw that too. Based on some of the other examples they gave, these are likley auction prices that were paid and made print on the indivual auction houses websites. Not real ggod examples.

[MikeA]

What's unfortunate is that people read these types of articles and feel that their car is worth that kind of money. Regardless of condition!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'll second that statement!!
I had a guy tell me today that his '69 el camino with this awesome LS7 built to pro stock specs, diamond plate welded into the bed for 'better weight distribution', and the rare 'wood-grained' sides was worth $40k because 'all these old cars are goind through the roof' /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

I remember these very days about 12 years ago, the speculators will be gone when the stocks come back. (and that's ok with me /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif )

[Mr70]

It's 1989 all over again.

[69rsss350]

Guys, try to get a grip here. A car is only worth what someone will write a check for, no matter when. If your car is not for sale, then its not for sale (unless someone writes a big enough check). I don't understand your philosophy unless your looking to buy a car on the cheap... and if that is what you are doing it for aren't you a speculator? The supercars that you guys own are always going to bring a premium and why wouldn't you want to see their value go up? If someone makes a buck on a car why does that bother you? Sorry but this is what I do for a living and I have gone thru many market changes in my 21 years in the business and have always made a good living and I sell the cars to the dealers that Joe average buys his cars from. Why in the hell would you have a problem if that guy with the elky could get 40K for it? It is not your money is it? Are you worried that if an average or even above average car brings more that it will somehow devalue your "supercar"? Enlighten me.

[whitetop]

69rsss350
The problem I have is the guys who truly have loved the cars their entire life, their whole life's obsession so to speak, get pushed out of the picture. Somebody with pockets full of money will come in and buy up the cars and inflate the prices as a result. Once they get over their new hobby of the month whim, they get bored and go onto something else. Once these car prices go up they may come down some but will always be inflated. I'm like Marlin, to the people that do this don't let the car door hit you in the A** on the way out of the hobby.
Dave

[69rsss350]

That is the world we live in whether we like it or not. The almighty buck rules. I guarantee that there isn't an owner on this site that wouldn't sell their "life dream" for the right price cause there is always another dream isn't there?

[MikeA]

69rsss350,

Don't get me wrong if someone is willing to overpay for a super car (or any other car for that matter), good for them.

My problem is that people without super cars feel that their rusted SS350 Camaro, Chevelle or Nova is worth super car money. In most cases the car it just is not worth the asking price because the person selling it usually does not take account the costs associated with the restoration. Like Whitetop stated it does stop people who would like to purchase their dream car, whether it is a Yenko Camaro or a small block car.

[69rsss350]

In my experience those that ask too much soon come to reality and end up selling it for market value or it comes off the market. That is my point... not to worry as the market always corrects. By the way anyone want to give me 50K for my Camaro? I will provide all the pictures you want and deliver in my enclosed trailer (you can buy it too for 15k). Just have cash waiting!

[Fhakya]

Wow..just read that article. I'm super curious to see the ultra rare Pontiac Superbird!!! At 1 of 0, it's easily worth the 85K. As for 69rsss350...Hey man, ride the wave! Apparently your car is now worth almost 100K (if I read your nickname right). What a joke this crap is.
This is also great for me because according to USA Today, my $.02 is now worth about $38.50.

-Mark

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

69rsss350;
Whitetop has just spoken my mind /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
We have seen this before, and we know how this market cycles. We also know that everything has a price, and we are not knockin your profession or livelyhood. However, it is disconcerting when a 'carpetbagger' shows up with investment on the brain, rather than appreciation from the heart. This only drives the prices up out of the range of those who truly appreciate them. I don't really give a rat's petudy what my car is worth, and I won't sell it unless I have to. I own my Supercar because I want to enjoy it, not make money on it. I'll help close the door on the speculator's A$$ /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
Just my $.02, or whatever it's up to today.

[tom406]

It's all OK, really. A bunch of cars that wouldn't get restored suddenly will (due to the $$$) plus some new reproductions will get tooled up for the same reason. A bunch of "forgotten" iron will get rescued from barns and fields because the owners will finally be able to get the ridiculous prices they think they're worth. Then, in a year or two, when all of the people left holding the cars realize that they don't really like musclecars all that much, the market will crash, and the "true blue" guys can buy them at reasonable prices again.

In the meantime, go play with your kids, take the wife out on the town, and fix your house up a bit. It will be OK again soon, really. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

[69rsss350]

Well said!

[L78Impala]

I'm looking forward to that day. Maybe I can buy my LS6 back. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I know the ripple effect, and how it helps create a livelihood for mfg's, dist's, vendors's etc.., but it still doesn't help the average guy - the prices will come down but not back to where they were before the runup. You dealers have to remember that when the boomers are done with this hobby, the next generation will be priced out - and driving twin turbo 300Z's. I look at it like 'killing the golden goose' /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[whitetop]

Marlin
Th younger generation does not really like the older musclecars-so they won't be buying them in the future. They did not grow up with them. Just came back from the Street Rod Nats. Average age there was easily 55+ and silver haired. I'm 40 and I felt out of place. Went with a friend of mine who took (dragged?-just kidding) his 18 year old son. 18 year old son has no interest in street rods or the older musclecars whatsoever but does like modified cars. Said his dream car is a fox bodied Mustang of '87-'93. Another guy who went with us has a '37 Chevy rod and a '68 Camaro. His 16 year old son has no interest in those cars whatsoever but goes gaga over Honda sport compacts. Thirty years from now you will be able to pick up the '60's musclcars for a dime a dozen when all the current owners are dead or dying. Street rods earlier than that.
Dave

[hvychev]

Guys what a great point. Being only 24 years old when I go to car shows I am usually the youngest guy by 15 years. I have told many people about what we are talking about here. The younger generation is not interested in muscle cars. I was lucky enough to have had a good influence with them in my father. I have a few 18-20 year olds that work for me that have new generation Camaros and Mustangs. They think muscle cars are cool but would either have newer style cars or just simply can not afford a really nice muscle car. The prices for these cars are getting to out of reach for even most average adults. Not to mention that 9 out of 10 lending institutions won't even borrow money on a car that is older than 7 years old so if you don't have the cash you are out of luck. I have told many people that not now but in let's say 20-30 years from now the prices for these cars will be more affordable for the average Joe, especially supercars and other rare cars. Who would pay $100k+ for a rare car that they don't understand let alone appreciate. I am trying to learn all of this precious info now while I can, so when thoes supercar prices fall in the decades to come I will be right there to scoop one of them up! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[COPO PETE]

I believe the prices on the Supercars and other real high performance cars will always be good. Look at Duzenburgs (sp????) They still command excellent money, and they do nothing for me! I'm in this hobby because I love it. If someone offered me a million dollars for my cars I would not sell them. The fact the prices go up is just a bonus for me, it's nice to have a hobby that could actually potentially pay for itself, but I won't cash in on it. I'm here cause I like it and any young kids I've taken out for a blast has a perma-smile when I'm done with them. My two sons love them and will continue to look after them.If the price falls a lot....so what, I'm still having my fun!
Peter

[tom406]

Pete's got a point there. I've been waiting for 12 cylinder Packard prices to fall down to my level for a while now, and they've kept steady. Why? Aside from the fact that they're awesome, a steady stream of younger collectors have been "reaching back" after getting bored with the exotics/musclecars/50's iron they've been collecting. Not all of them, by any means, but enough to take care of the limited supply of cars put in circulation by declining older owners. I think the same will hold true for the Shelbys, Hemis, and Yenkos of the world. A percentage of the young Honda-tuners will open their hearts & wallets and carry the torch.

Now as for the 1928 Maxwells and 1968 Caprices of the world..they do appear to be one the road to obscurity and neglect. But they are dirt cheap for those who find joy in them!

[NWYENKO]

Too bad, Tom, I was just getting ready to call you and have you get rid of my cars before it was "too late". However after reading your and Pete's post I think I will hang on for a few more years. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif Jim

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I agree with the Dusi situation, and am with Pete - I'm in this because I love the cars regardless as to what the market is paying. I drove my Yenko to work today, and just spent an hour driving it around the countryside during lunch. Why do that? Certainly not to protect my investment, it does make me nervous because it's a nice car that just won 1st place at the Nova Nationals, (my hands are still shaking a little, not sure if it was chirping 4gears on belted rubber, or the solid lifters /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ).

I drive 'em because that's why I bought it in the first place, what a blast /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[NWYENKO]

Marlin, drove the Deuce to a show in sothern Wa (100 miles one way) 4:10's and bias tires on the freeway at 60-65 while everybody else is doing 80+ was a little stressful but still FUN /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif Drove the Camaro 3 wk ends in a row to local shows but am leary of putting many miles on it since it has low mileage Jim

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Way to go Jim /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
That's what they were intended for! I know Schoneye drives both of his, Cronkelton his, Belky his, Miller, Gruber, Thorson, Jansen, theirs, and the list goes on - very cool.

[NOCOPO]

Guys, It does my heart good to hear you guys "driving" these beautiful vehicles around. Indeed thats what they are for. When I finally become an owner of one of these little gems, I plan to drive the wheels off of it !! Hey, Marlin, 4th gear....one more time on the way home please ! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[TimG]

Having two teenage sons, I feel that I am able to comment on the younger generations feelings about musclecars. We have had a number of big block Corvettes in the garage and currently have a 66' Shelby parked between two mid year Corvettes.
My sons friends go nuts over these cars, the Shelby drives them crazy, it is all they talk about at school when they see my 13 year old son. Sometimes the kids hang in the garage with me, they know these cars are special my other son begs me to let him drive the car to school because kids just want to see the cars.
My youngest is in Boy Scouts and it has become a tradition that I give a boy a ride in the Shelby during his Eagle Scout project. Young kids are wild about the cars we all collect and will be the owners of these vehicles in the future.

[shor]

Yes Tim, I agree. The younger generation needs to see, hear and feel these cars. I was born in 68 and the hot rods for me growing up were the late 70's GM cars.(and the 83 thru 88 mustangs) Two cars that come to mind in my hometown was a 79 corvette and a 79 firebird. The corvette got a new cam, some mild head work, and headers. The firebird got a 72 455SD engine within it's first year(built by a famous pontiac guy...Nunzi? or something like that from Brooklyn) I was only 11 or 12 at the time and they were the "older guys" then 16 and 17. The point is I can remember those day's like they were yesterday. I remember when I got my first ride in a 69 camaro z28. I remember the impression it made on me. By the way, I have become close friends with those two fellows with the corvette and firebird and we try to get together with our families as often as we can. I have two kids, corvette guy has one and firebird guy has four! They still have their original cars with original paint and the miles are something like 13000 and 19000 !!

[TimG]

Nunzi was a big Corvette guy in the 60's and 70's. I think he had an L88.

[jon rand]

Well said pete. Duzenburg,whats that all about. I,ve been offered outragous money for my car but its not for sale.