'69 L-89 Convertible Camaro

[COPO]

Am curious of board members opinions of the engine stampings shown for the '69 L-89 Camaro Convertible that is for sale. http://www.shutterfly.com/os.jsp?i=67b0de21b30795cd0528

[Stefano]

COPO,
The pad date looks like T0708 JJ and the casting date lookes like G ?? 8? Can you tell what it reads?

[COPO]

Given that "Supercars" has the only documented L-89 Conv. that I am aware of, I was curious if this one was the real McCoy. I thought the broach marks looked pretty good on the block pad. Curious what others thought.

[TimG]

Broach marke look good, on a car like this it would be much better to see the block with no heads and view the broach marks extending the length of the block. You are not able to see much of the build date, my tracings show the 8 with the bottom a bit larger or if insetred in reverse, the top a bit larger.

[fred]

CHECK THE ADD ON CAMAROS.NET. IT READS BUILD DATE 9-D, BLOCK CASTING 3935440 DATE G 2 8 PAD STAMP VIN 19N512513 708JJ FRED

[COPO]

Fred, I'm not sure what you are saying. The block cast is July 2, 1968 and the assembly date of the engine is July 8, 1968 and the car's assembly is 4th week of Sept. '68 everything looks OK to me.

[JChlupsa]

Same car just some more info is what I think Fred was getting to
http://camaros.net/cgi-bin/cyber/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db _id=15860&exact_match=on&photo_size=full

[Stefano]

I am with TimG on this as the pics of the Broach marks look good to me(too good, no flaws or mistakes and the stikes were dead on).I would need to see their extention and consistency beyond the pad.

If this is the real deal, it is one hell of a rare ragtop.

Does anyone have the casting dates of the heads?

[Kurt S]

Lots of good pics. Neat car.
The broach marks look OK to me. Better than the L89 pacer I looked at today. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif They were too fresh.
Don't see anything that throws up a flag, but I can't read that axle code.
I know of 5 other L89 ragtops. The 2 original pacers, another pacer with POP, one out in CA, and Kevin's. All 69's. Just don't see many 68 L89 cars.

[Stefano]

Does any one know the history or has anyone seen this L89 in person?

[TimG]

I know that the broach marks can be done very well now. What I have seen people do is take a virgin block and stamp it. A bare block sold over the counter will have broach marks and no stamping. They are difficult to find. It would be best to compare the stamp to another 396 stamp with an ID number in the area of this one, if possible.
I do not want to cast a shadow on the car, it could help verify it.

[Stefano]

COPO,
Is it in your garage yet?

[COPO]

No, I'd like to get it, but I've got way too many already. I do miss not having a convertible. I'm concentrating on getting my Baldwin done. I did just pick up a extra clean '69 Z-28 w/300 miles. Not a super car, but too good a deal to pass up. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Stefano]

That has to be the lowest mileage Z28 on the planet.

[hvychev]

Wow, 300 miles! Sounds like an interesting car What is it's history? It is amazing that someone had the foresight to keep such a sought after car "brand new", so to speak.

[JChlupsa]

was the 300 mile car the drag car that was for sale??

[69rsss350]

If you find a 33 year old car that only has 300 miles, either the speedo was disconnected or odometer rolled back or both. Sorry, just doesn't happen.

[bbdon]

I went to a garage sale a few weeks ago and ended up buying two Honda minibikes , one with zero miles, still in the original shipping crate, the other ridden only once around the backyard, showing 0.9km. Both are 1970 models, 32 years old. And I know that some musclecars have been found with very low mileage. Never say never.
http://www.sonic.net/bbdon/honda/

[COPO]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=11041&Forum=UB B3&Words=ls-6&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old= allposts&Main=11038&Search=true#Post11041

[copolocater]

JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO I SOLD A 737 DOCUMENTED MILE HUGGER ORANGE Z28 TO SIXTIES MUSCLE. THATS NOT THE KICKER. THE CAR WAS SENT TO MOTION PERFORMANCE IN 74 AND 12,000 WAS SPENT ON UPGRADES. ACCORDING TO JOEL ONE OF HIS MOST EXPENSIVE CONVERSIONS. THIS CAR IS ONE OF THE BADDEST MOTION CONVERTED CARS ON THE PLANET.ALSO THE 68 PHASE III CAMARO MY BROTHER LOCATED FOR MARK H. WITH 10000 MILES. SO IT COULD BE TRUE.

[tom406]

Logically, it should never happen, but of course it does. Logic doesn't play a part in it. Fanatical preservation sometimes comes into play, but usually its just an ignored or forgotten car that was lucky enough to find a safe and dry place to spend the years.

69RSSS350, being a fellow buyer/seller/evaluator of these things, you should know these things are out there. Your cynicism is understood, but you oughta give the principals on this page some credit-they're always on the lookout for "fakes" and are not easily duped. They know that a "time capsule" car isn't going to look like a fresh car or even a new car-its going to look like an untouched car thats been SITTING FOR 30 YEARS, with all the subtle visual clues that will create. (My friend's 1600 mile Hemi Satellite has that "look".)

I've seen several ultra low mile cars, and most have the same type of history. The original owner, for whatever reason, never drives the car, but keeps it safe for 10 or 15 years. Just long enough to make the car interesting to an enthusiast or collector who then picks it up and continues preserving it. Many of the cars don't get that second owner, but instead get given to a nephew or sold to a neighbor, who then proceed to drive and/or abuse it into the ranks of all the other old cars out there.

But some make it, and serve as reference material for all of us geeks, and keep us humble about what's correct, and whats right. (I like the story about the guy with the 900 mile '41 Lincoln Continental, who sits off to the side at car shows and listens to all the people comment on what a crappy restoration his car has obviously received.)

I think there's probably 500-1000 cars out there, pre-1970, with under 1000 miles. I would love to hear more about this 300 mile Z28, we deserve more than a tease here....

[JoeC]

There is a 67 L88 Corvette with 12 miles on it. Was bought to race but the guy never completed the project.

[TimG]

Ever hear of the 12 mile 67' L88 Corvette. Bought to be converted to a drag car and never completed. The engine was pulled early on and has been replaced with a crate L88.

[TimG]

Looks like we had the same thought at the same time. John Gardner had the 495 mile LS6 Corvette that I judged at the 1992 NCRS event in Grass Valley, CA. There were two cars to be judged and a shortage of judges so I was able to judge the entire car instead of one of the areas.

[69rsss350]

I can understand an extremely low mile Corvette or Viper or something of the same ilk. 69 Z28's were not collector cars in 69. 67's maybe and I'm not saying it is impossible but highly unlikely. Got any idea how easy it is to disconnect a speedo or spin these cars? Any idea how common it was to spin odos 20 years ago? I'll bet that over 60-65% of cars sold 20 years ago had been spun. I know older guys that would take 20K car and spin it to 12K just for another 50 or 100 dollars.

[Chevy454]

You gotta remember, though, these weren't considered collector cars back then...they were just your ordinary transportation. Some would just get you there faster!

It's a LOT different these days. People will buy up anything they think might be a collector's item. Need I mention the whole '78 Pace Car fiasco? Heck, right here in our podunk Missouri town is a '78 Pacer with like 5k miles or something. Does that make it valuble? Not hardly...it's still a '78 Corvette, and everyone and their brother parked 'em thinking they'd go through the roof. I think a lot of '02 F-bodies will see a similar fate.

[tom406]

Hindsight is a funny thing. Hundreds of Chevy dealers seemed to have put away a new Corvair back in '68 or '69, thinking it would be a big collectible someday, but few thought to put away a Camaro or Chevelle.

Again, I don't think logic (or "future collectibility") is what preserved most of these cars. Last year we sold a '77 Olds Cutlass with 13,900 original miles. The family that bought it new wasn't out of the ordinary, or even hard core car people. They just bought a nice new car, but still drove their old one to minimize wear and tear on the new one. Pretty soon 10 years have past, they buy another new car, but keep the Olds because it doesn't have much trade in value. Then its 25 years old, and they don't really know why they've kept it that long, but its still like new.

We sold it to a guy who had worn out his beloved '76 Cutlass, and couldn't believe he had a chance to buy another new one. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

Iseen the same thing this past week-end. A guy had a 1973 olds cutlass with 2300 miles! It was a new car. Ice blue with blue interior, and a 455 in it. Price was 20k. Seemed a bit high, but it is a new car.