More Nova questions - specifically big blocks....

[Allen]

Hello all! It's nice to see some interest in Novas showing up lately (my biased opinion, since Novas are my favorite).

In reading some of the discussion, I have a question regarding differt characteristics for the big block cars and specifically the fuel line stuff.

I have a '70 Nova SS 396/350hp, 4-speed, 12-bolt 3.31 posi with the following additional options... bucket seats, console, gauge package, deluxe interior. Based on tracking the history of the car via a title search, I show I'm the fourth owner. I bought the car from the third (obviously), was not able to locate the second owner, but did get to talk to the original owner on the phone several years ago after tracking him down.

Based on that conversation, I'm quite confident in what I have with respect to it matching up with what he specifically ordered in the fall of '69. Even better is that the engine appears to still be the original, along with the tranny and rear end. Overall, the car hasn't been messed with or messed up too much, except for some crappy body/paint work by the previous owner (it was an Iowa car).

My main question right now is about the fuel lines. I've read comments about the 396/350hp having two lines, whereas the 375hp has a single fuel line. My Nova only has one fuel line running under the car. Last week, at the NNN show, I looked at a '69 396/350 and it did have two lines. I checked out my '70 assembly manual, and the engineering sheet on page 316 (for those with the reproduction book like me) shows the dual line as being "cancelled" during the summer of '69. This would imply to me that the '70 L34 didn't get two lines.

So, does anyone know for sure about the '70 model? Did the '70 396/350hp go back to a single fuel line? I don't have any reason to think mine was changed based on the overall originality of the car, but I'm curious. What have you guys seen?

I started thinking about all this a few weeks ago. I took it out for a little therupy drive, and while rowing through the gears, found that the motor starting fading away at high RPM - like it was starving of fuel. I figured I should change my fuel pump, and then got to thinking about the number of lines that I read about, etc etc.

Sorry for the long post, but hey, we all like talking about our cars.

What else is big block specific? The core support, heater box, motor mounts.... what other clues are there for pointing out originality? Thanks!!

If I did the link correctly, you should be able to see a few pics of my car at the link or web address below.

http://community.webshots.com/album/37279735mrCcfe

Allen

[YenkoChevelle69]

My friend you have an awfully nice looking super nova there! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bbdon]

I don't know the answer for sure. I do know that some of them did get the twin lines. I have a road test here for a 1970 L34 Nova, (Super stock, June 1970) and it clearly shows the vapor return on the fuel filter. Look here (http://www.sonic.net/bbdon/free/70l34.jpg) I also have another road test for a 70 L34 Nova, (Road Test July 1970) and it looks like the vapor return is there, but very hard to see. Remembering that the Camaro and the Nova used the same engine assemblies, I checked an L34 Camaro article (Road Test August 1970) and the return line is clearly shown. The color ad drawing for the 70 Camaro shows the vapor return line as well. But I don't think thatyou can ever tell 100% about this kind of thing. Lots of funny stuff happened on the assembly line.
When I first bought my 1969 L34 nova, all of those lines were missing, I had a Holley 750 with rubber fuel lines and the return line was blocked off. It ran great with the Holley, but when I put a Quadrajet back on the car, it would never idle well when it was hot. Putting the correct fuel line and filter on the car with the vapor return connected cured the hot idle problem. It took me years to find the correct lines, and I had to make the top one myself, so mine is still not quite correct. I had to buy a whole 396 motor to get those parts, but I used a lot of other parts from that motor as well, so it was worth it. The lines on my subframe came off of a ventura. About a year after I finally found those parts, they started reproducing them.

[Allen]

Thanks for the information. I actually have an original copy of that article in the original magazine (a big thank you to Marlin! I really appreciate it.)

The engine picture in the article shows a little more of the core support, and that particular car also has the charcoal vapor canister that was a CA emissions equipment. I know of a gentleman restoring a CA '70 SS396 L78 car who has been hunting high and low for one of those canistors (it has four "nipples" on it).

Could it be that the California smog cars only got that dual fuel line and equipment in '70? It's hard to tell what changes on these cars over 30+ years, so it's hard telling about mine. It appears to have a large diameter fuel line, but also just one under there. Oh well.... there just aren't that many '70 L34 Novas around to compare to. Maybe more than '70 Yenko Deuces, but not a huge amount more...

Any other big block specific information is welcomed. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks!

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
I recently completely tore apart my 1970 Nova SS 395/350. My car is not a CA car. MN car. It had the 2 fuel lines. I bought it from the original owner. Mainly unmolested. It is my understanding that the 375 hp cars only had 1 fuel line. The 350 hp cars had 2. Mine is a very early production 70 car. Assembled August 1970. Hopefully you belong to NNN. Lots of articles and pictures of what I found when I tore my car apart. Let me know if you have other questions.
Ron
Ron

[Allen]

Ron,
Thanks for the information. I'd love to hear more about your Nova. I have followed your pictures and article in NNN. Great stuff, and very detailed!!

I've checked with the owners a few more supposedly-original L34's that have popped up, and the results are interesting (strange). Two had dual lines, and two were the large diameter single line, like mine.

It's a curiousity anyway. In my repop copy of the factory '70 Nova assembly manual, it shows the dual line being page (no. 316, I think) being "cancelled". My main reason for the interest is because I've heard that all L34 cars got dual line (I'm sure that's true for 68/69).

Overall, I'm not worried about my car not being an original SS 396/350hp. My conversation with the original owner that verfied what he ordered new in the fall of '69, plus the facts that........

1. The engine matches the VIN

2. The tranny matches the VIN

3. The rear end dates up correctly

4. The upholstery tag verifies a bucket seat, four-speed, Super sport optioned car

5. The factory tach and gauges are the correct color and the tach is the specific one for the L34

6. All of the other specific factory big block parts are there (core support, heater core, crossmember, etc)

It's just puzzling to hear what "should " be, and see something different. Plus that reproduction of the factory assembly manual I have shows the dual fuel line being canceled in '70. So, who knows.......? GM was in the business of building cars, not sticking to the rules 100%.

Now, if I could just find the 2nd owner to speak with (the guy that owned it from 74-88), I might find out more!

Allen

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
I have a friend who lives 10 miles from me who owns a 70 396/350 Nova. I believe he is the 2nd owner. His car is very authentic. It still has the original exhaust hangers. I'm not 100% certain but I believe his car is a 2 fuel line car. His car has May 1970 assembly date?? Now you have me thinking. If his car has the 2 lines, and now that I think about it, I'm sure it does because I told him where he could find a 2 fule line gas tank sending unit. It is very hard to find. His being a late production car makes the assembly manual information interesting?? Question, does a 350 hp car like yours with the factory tach have the same red line as the 375 hp car. I located a factory tach but I don't know if a tach for a 350 hp car is the same as a 375 hp car? What is yours?
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
Sorry about the assembly date for my car. It is August 1969. My fat fingers typing again.
Ron

[MikeA]

Ron,

The redline for Nova in-dash tachs are as follows:
Small Block: 5,000 rpm
396/350: 5,500 rpm
396/375: 6,000 rpm

[Allen]

Mine has the 5,500 RPM tach. My body build date is 9E, and the assembly tag is dated 10/03 (I think). It is also an early production car, but not as early as yours.

The stampings on the engine and tranny and rear are all in this time frame (late Sept/beginning Oct) too.

[RonNova396L34]

Mike,
I didn't know there was a difference. Interesting information. Do you still use a muncie shifter? Your's a 4 speed? I just briefly glanced at your photos.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Allen]

Ron,
I'm not sure if you are addressing Mike or myself (since I posted a link to pictures of my Nova), but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, the red/yellow line on the tachs are different in appearance. For what it's worth, the 68-70 speedo/tach/gauge lettering has a greenish tint to it and the 71-74 is pure white. Considering that, you shouldn't ever see any big block style tachs with white letters.

My original Muncie shifter was a worn out piece of junk and now decorates my garage wall. I installed a Hurst Competition Plus shifter in its place. My tranny is a Muncie M20 four speed, and the rear end is a positraction 3.31 geared 12-bolt.

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
Do you know where I can get a shifter, Hurst, that will work for my application. Non-console floor shift. I have a Hurst shifter but it is spaced too far left and I can't use my original boot or ring? Anybody else know? I like the way it shifts though. I don't want the sloppy Muncie. I've seen an article about someone modifying the Muncie handle to fit into the Hurst box. All I need to know is what will work and where can I get one?
Ron

[JoeC]

You can probably still buy the Hurst shifter new. It is just a matter of getting the offset shifter and the correct trans-to-shifter mounting plate then cutting the Muncie handle and drilling two holes in it. I did it with flat Muncie handles and round Hurst handles. You can even get them to fit in a stock console.

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
I just thought of something to look for on the 2 piece fuel lines. What about the mounting clips underneath your car? They should be wide to fit the 2 lines into. Sure, they could be changed but it's a thought. Mine were the wide ones. Also check the engine compartment on the frame. The guy I know with the other 70 called about a new Hurst shifter and it is not available for a console car? I haven't been able to check about a non-console shifter.
Ron

[Allen]

I bought my Hurst shifter back in '95. I got it from Jeg's performance parts in Columbus, Ohio. It fits like it should, works fine for my console car, and is a heck of a lot better than that Muncie.

I thought about cutting the handle off the Muncie, but just couldn't bring my self to doing it. Instead, I hung the whole worthless thing on my garage wall!

[SS427]

Allen, I feel bad that you have that worthless thing hanging on your wall. If it makes you feel better, I could hang it on mine. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Allen]

LOL!

Well.... it does look cool though! And since it is original to my Nova, I guess it'll just stay right there.