What would YOU do with this car? [Archive]

lowmile

08-27-2002, 03:07 PM

I've posted a pic of this car before but I'll attach it again. It is a 1970 6cyl, 3 on the tree 5700 mile Hugger Orange Nova nice original paint,tires,shocks,int etc. I know a few members have seen it in person. I believe it's probaby in the top ten(?) in the country as far as unrestored novas. I purchased it and have an aluminum head big block and m-22 ready to install to make it look like a COPO. I was going to do another sub-frame and just roll the old out and the new in and not touch anything I don't have to. I haven't been able to do it. I love original old cars and don't know what to do. I have very little interest in keeping it if it with the 6 banger but I hate to mess with such an original car. I have 2 kids one one the way. I can't afford the real deal yet so I make and sell a few lookalikes just so I get to spend a little time as close as I can get to a real supercar for now.(i DON'T try and make exact clones anyone with half a brain would know the difference in one of my cars) my question is... what would you do? thanks, Mark

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-27-2002, 04:00 PM

Sell it.

They are only original once, so if you put another frame, engine, etc... into it with the intention of putting it back some day, you have made changes. Then the car is no longer the same car that GM delivered to a little dealership in Texas.

Just my $.02 /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

TimG

08-27-2002, 04:17 PM

It would be tempting to put a 427 in it, but I would leave it original.

Chevy454

08-27-2002, 04:43 PM

How about a friendly little poll?/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Stefano

08-27-2002, 05:24 PM

Mark,
The answer to your question depends on what you want out of the car. It sounds like you are not happy with the original GM equipment. I doesn't sound like you will get your grins cruising around with a three in the tree 6 banger.

The current market value may also help you to decide. If you sell it, will the $$$$s it brings get you closer to your ultimate goal?

I hold originality in very high regard, but in this case since the car is not rare and holds no special historical significance then I personally would put in a Super Car(look) drive train, such as a Motion Phase III L88 M20 and 4.56 12 Bolt.

The fun I would have with the car would far outway any remorse I might encounter for altering its originality.

I would venture to say that if done correctly while still maintaining as much originality as possible that the Nova would be more marketable and that you would be able to get the cost, both parts and labor over and above todays market value as it sits.

Just my opinion /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

CopoCrunkus

08-27-2002, 06:15 PM

Mark,
While the Nova may not be a "Supercar", It is a Rare car in the sense of the mileage and condition it's in. I had the same choice with my 66 Chevelle...22k Miles "Oldlady" car. I opted to upgrade it and have loved every minute of it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Either way that is a wonderful example !! Just my .02cents

-Frank

AutoInsane

08-27-2002, 08:14 PM

Tough question.....

What is the car worth even as a low mile car? Probably not too much...

I am usually an advocate of keeping things original, but I dont think you will get a good price if you sell it. I would put in the engine that you want to and have one beautiful look alike car.(I dont like to use the word clone, it insinuates deception)

I wonder if 10 years from now someone will be asking if this car is a Real Yenko or some other product from the 60's.......

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-27-2002, 09:08 PM

I think the real value to this car is it's reference aspects, which is why I would suggest that you sell it rather than modify it. This car is one of those cars that needs to be preserved so that we always have a point of reference. I know it was used by several of us who have restored gen. 2 Novas. I wouldn't touch it, if I could afford it I'd make you an offer /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

08-27-2002, 09:16 PM

I almost bought this car from Bushey and was going to send it to Joel Rosen. He said yes, then renigged because it was a 6-cylinder car and he implied the transformation would be cost prohibitive. Would have been a hell of a ride! Wayne used this car as a reference when he restored my orange deuce. I can see both sides.

69L89396

08-27-2002, 09:23 PM

I would modify it and have some fun without thinking about taking a high dollor car out tearing something up. You can always keep the original drive train to offer when it is sold. Why keep a "plain jane" car that doesn't apperciate very much original when you can enjoy it in a modified form?
You can probility see a return on the investment better in a modified form than original.
Just my 2 cents

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-27-2002, 09:27 PM

But if you want to 'have some fun' with a non-high dollar car, why use a 5k mile, original, unrestored, orig. paint, car??? Put an L89 BB into one of the other 200k Novas that were built in '70! If you walked up to this car at a show, would you look at the L89, the 6cyl. VIN, or the orig. paint? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

69L89396

08-27-2002, 09:28 PM

Very good point!

Horseman

08-27-2002, 09:48 PM

I say keep it as is. And yes me too I would offer you the cash if I had it.

CopoCrunkus

08-27-2002, 11:30 PM

With the car market as it is, Could anyone estimate what this car would be worth?

-Frank

shor

08-28-2002, 12:29 AM

Mark, that is a very pretty car. What would you ask for it? I think the six is kind of neat. I wouldn't change a thing.

lowmile

08-28-2002, 01:32 AM

A lot of people have raised very valid points and I have thought about everything that has been said thus far. Thats why the car is still sitting untouched. I was sure that the L89 was about to go in the car but the more it's around the harder it gets to do it. There is a guy in Talahassee Fla. that has shown some interested in putting it in his museum. He would probably pay more than it's worth. The guy is kind of hard to deal with and access to the car for reference purposes would be kind of limited. I'm also not to the point of selling the car. Oh the agony of it all!

69rsss350

08-28-2002, 01:37 AM

Build it, drive it! That is what I am doing with my 70 Nova 6 cyl all original car that couldn't get a reply on this site other than to move it to another site!

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 12:52 PM

69ssrs; Are you still whining?? Let's get over it, and move on.

These are two completely different cars, and situations. I doubt anyone would be using your neighbor's car as reference material to restore a Yenko/COPO car. Nothing against your car, so, if you choose to make a hot rod out of it, that's fine. The hobby needs cars like this orange one, which is why I'd leave it alone, and make it accessible to other enthusiasts.

JoeC

08-28-2002, 01:06 PM

I agree with Marlin. The restoration guys need good benchmark cars. In my opinion it is better to preserve the car or sell it to someone who will preserve it.

08-28-2002, 01:11 PM

I am in agreement also now Marlin. It sure helped me! Any other low-mileage novas besides this one known? I know about the 6k green deuce.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 01:47 PM

Dave;
Actually, this orange car is probably a better reference car than the 6k mile deuce. That deuce has many day 2 mod's done to it, it's hard to get into, and therefore, we don't use it as a ref. car. The 12k mile beige deuce is usually the one that we use, at least the mod's that are done to that car were items purchased through the Yenko parts catalog. Tommy K's 11k mile deuce is another excellent ref. car.

08-28-2002, 01:51 PM

Has the black master cylinder debate ended? Black or gray? Mine is black.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 01:56 PM

The final verdict is black. Wayne, Tommy K, and I were talking about it when I went to Waynes to go over your car with him. Even the low mile cars look 'gray' because the brake fluid 'seeps' over time. We all know what DOT 3 fluid does to paint, so sometimes it's hard to find any remnants of black paint on even a low mile car.

If my memory serves me correctly, this orange car was not cheap. I know when Dave and I were interested in it, the asking price was around $14.5k. It's a true case where you gotta have it, but can't drive it!

08-28-2002, 02:02 PM

Wayne was going to sell me the orange car for 11k. He wanted to put a 502/502hp in it with a turbo 400 and 12 bolt rear in it, then sell it to me. I couldn't commit!

JoeC

08-28-2002, 03:20 PM

I am not 100% sure on this but from what I read, the master cyl was painted black prior to machining so the machined surfaces have no paint on them.

SS427

08-28-2002, 03:34 PM

Joe, that is correct. A flash coat of black was painted on these and was just enough to keep them from rusting. They were then machined. A combination of the machining oil and brake fluid would leave very little paint intact. When I restore them, I use a cast colored paint and then air brush a very fine 'mist' of black paint. What you end up with is a black part with a lot of bleed through of the cast paint.

tom406

08-28-2002, 03:50 PM

This is a tough one. We'd all love to see these cars be preserved as benchmarks, but honestly, who's putting 6-cylinder Novas in their collections? The world's supply of Nice Novas is drying up, so the guy is looking at finding a decent one, painting it a fun color (as the one he finds will probably be dark gold, or white), restoring the interior, and generally spending a lot more time and money than just starting with this car.

If someone preserves it, that's great, but if this fellow does a tasteful upgrade of this car, I won't hold it against him.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 05:18 PM

Tom;
With 500,000 gen. II Novas built, there is no logical reason to modify this particular car. The money raised by selling it would more than offset the purchase and repainting of another Nova. I'm not against having fun with a hot rod either, but just not with a 5k mile orig. car /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 07:46 PM

Lowmile;
As an afterthought, why not install a stout big block in the '72 Yenko clone Nova that you have on Ebay?? That car is a flashy color, it's in nice shape, has relatively low miles, and already has the big block yenko stripes on it!

Just a thought, /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

Leonard

08-28-2002, 08:51 PM

Mark, I think it should be up to you to decide what YOU want to do with the car. True its just a 6cyl model, but its a fine automobile in superb condition. I think that you are not satisfied of this auto because it being a 6cyl. model. If this were a 70 yenko duece and you decided to swap the engine to a crate 502, thats ok. Its YOUR CAR and thats what you want, that all that matters. I on the other hand would keep the yenko duece as original as possible. That is what i would want. The important thing is to keep these cars alive and to drive them like they were meant to be... If you think it may hurt its value buy changing the drive train, Have you seen much $$ they are getting for clones and replicas. Amazing. Just my not worth 2 cents worth... OK guys, be gentile. Dont slam me to harsh. (He he he...)

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-28-2002, 09:18 PM

There are a few real Yenko Deuce Novas with big blocks installed into them by their owners. We don't have a problem with that, like you said, it's their car and they can do what they want. This car is a true reference car though, and I'm obviously campaigning that it be left original.

69rsss350

08-29-2002, 12:39 AM

YDR, you said you doubt if anyone would want to look at my car as a reference to restore a COPO Nova or Yenko deuce as compared to this car. Why? Cause it has 82K original miles and is not Hugger Orange? I believe I stated that this is a one family owned car and all original. So it has more miles?
The car is 100% all original and untouched with the factory paint! It has not been on the road in 6 years and is not by any means pristine but is all original. Where does your prejudice lie? Try to make your case again, please, cause it doesn't hold much water with me on this one.

69rsss350

08-29-2002, 01:03 AM

Lowmile, if you don't want to put that BB and M-22 in your car,I am interested in putting them in mine. Email me if you are interested in selling them. Thanks.

lowmile

08-29-2002, 01:33 AM

OK I'm going to spill my guts here guys. I think I might be a little weird. Here's what I mean, I REALLY like original paint cars.I love to look at restored cars but I really don't want a redone old car. The Yellow car looks great but its been "done" if you know what I mean. My idea of the perfect car for me would be a low mileage original paint super car. And being realistic the chance of me being able to afford one is about 0. I might be able to buy it but I could not afford to keep it.I've had 5 nova's under 30000 miles in the last 5 years and I thought this car would make a cool copo cousin. (I think the word cousin describes what I want better than the word clone) I have a 30k 71 nova with air ps pb that has had a light repaint and the SS trim added but is original inside and under the hood and in the trunk I MIGHT put the big block in it. I just don't know if I can get past the paint not being original.see attachment Your starting to get to me Marlin.

shor

08-29-2002, 01:35 AM

69rs. What is going on? Are you ok? It is not even your car. The lady next door owns it right? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

69rsss350

08-29-2002, 01:48 AM

Shor, I bought it, I own it and what is your problem?

shor

08-29-2002, 02:01 AM

Congrats on the car. It sounds like a very nice original survivor and a great find. I spoke to Marlin and he said ok your car can be a "reference" car too.

69rsss350

08-29-2002, 02:04 AM

Well if anyone wants to reference it they better do it soon cause it is undergoing modification as we speak.

Kurt S

08-29-2002, 03:03 AM

All original masters cylinders where black. But it's a different paint and isn't very thick or adhesive. So it comes off pretty quick, esp since it's on cast iron.
A flatter black, btw.
Look for original Corvairs, since the master is in the trunk and is protected.

Kurt

tom406

08-29-2002, 04:11 AM

That's a good tip. There's more 5K original mile Corvairs out there than you can shake a stick at. Probably two for each posting member of this board, so that you can have a reference one AND a modified one.

And Marlin, I totally respect your opinion. And there were a TON of Gen 2 Novas built, they used to be everywhere. But our Auto Traders are getting pretty thin on them here on the North West Coast, so I KNOW things aren't much better in the rust belt. Its been 30 years - attrition is finally taking its toll, IMHO.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-29-2002, 12:48 PM

69ssrs;
Dude, take a chill.

It's very difficult to compare these two Novas, I've only seen one of them in person and only one picture of the other. Let's face it, with 85k miles on any car things have been changed - hoses, belts, carb, radiators, brakes, brake drums, etc... things have been worn out. After putting 80k+ miles of dirt, grunge and grime on a car it is hard to see the details that we are looking for. Things like overspray patterns, paint daubs, crayon markings, little tags and stickers, that kind of stuff. I'm not trashin your Nova, if it has some reference capability, take some pictures before you make your mods and share them with the class.

TimG

08-29-2002, 01:41 PM

It is hard to argue with a 5,000 mile Nova. I would love to spend an hour with the car. Put a nice set of vintage mags on the car and it will look super neat. I have a very low mile, undesireable option 65' Corvette. I have always said that even the original owner did not want to drive this car.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

08-29-2002, 04:00 PM

lowmile;
I like orig. paint cars just as much as the next guy, but what really completes the package is when the whole thing is original, low miles, with all the details still intact.

I agree with you, your logic is a little off-beat - you don't mind a completely wrong, totally non-original, impossible to get option of alum. head big block with a six cyl. vin'd car, but gotta have orig. paint /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif But, we are all different, and that's what makes the world go around.

If it was me, I put the non-orig BB into the non-orig paint, non-orig color, non-orig SS, non-orig interior, but flashy lookin yellow car /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

If you think about it, if you were to sell all of your low mile Novas you would probably have enough money to buy a Supercar - maybe not a lowmile orig. paint one, but a Supercar nonetheless.

Check out the friendly vote stat's, this candidate is in the lead!!!