1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro at Auburn

[Souperhigh]

The 1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro at the auction in Auburn this weekend has found a new home in Oklahoma.Has some interesting documentation and letter from Joel. I have a 48 foot 2 car trailer so I might bring it along with my 69 Yenko Camaro to the reunion.If any of you know of its past, please share .Thanks
souperhigh

[Chevy454]

Maurice:

We'd be darn glad to have it! Since you are dragging your 2 car trailer along anyway, you might as well fill it up!

[COPOGUY]

Need to know some info,restored,color combination?

[Souperhigh]

Car was bought from John E. in Orland Park, Illinois. It is triple black, and vin # 124377N222717. Comes with copy of origional title from first owner and letter certifying it as a real Stage III Motion Camaro. One of only a few made in 1967,from Joel Rosen. Hey it is a neat car. Letter from Joel stating that I qualify to purchase any parts for it that he may still have left. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Souperhigh]

Anyone with any knowledge of this car and its history, I would appreciate hearing it, good or bad.Thanks
souperhigh

[COPOGUY]

Congrats.Was supposed to be at auburn couldn't make it.Thats Ok wouldn't have been in the mood to roll around in the dirt with ya!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Don't know you but I'll recognize you at the reunion you'll be the guy with a permanent smile on your face.Congrats again neat piece.Wish I could help. Copolocater

[Stefano]

A Phase III in my back yard and it was for sale too. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif Congrats on the New Super Car. Two Phase IIIs at the same Reunion ,how cool.

[mhassett]

Maurice, I know you are on cloud 9---What a car--
Congrats to you. I have some magazines that I bought to find articles on my '68 BM Camaro and some of them are on the '67's, I'll bring the magazines to the Reunion and you can see if one of them might be yours. I found my '68 BM in one of the magazines.
Can't wait to see it.
Take Care, Mark /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Souperhigh]

Stefano, the seller also sold a Z-28 at this auction, his business card said "Tri State Industry Inc." . Is that close to you? And Mark, I am very interested in any information you might be able to share or part with.

[whitetop]

Souperhigh: "Anyone having any knowledge of this car and history I would appreciate hearing from you, good or bad"

Isn't this the car the previous owner confirmed as being rebodied from a 6 cylinder car in a previous thread?
Dave

[whitetop]

Just kidding!! I don't want to be responsible for souperhigh's heart attack. Is this the old ex-Tom Johnson car with a white stripe? Was in several old musclecar mags back in '85-'87 or so.
Dave

[COPO]

Congrats sounds like a great car! I've got a number of the Speed and Supercar, Rodder & Super Stock, and Hi Perf. CARS with Motion articles. I'll see what '67 articles I have. Wish I didn't sell my '71 BM so that I could bring it to the Reunion this year. Next year, I'll have my '69 BM finished. Would be a neat photo having 67, 68 and 69 BM Camaros lined up. Maybe we'll even get Joel to show up one of these years??? Looking forward to seeing the car in a few weeks. Also, "Supercars" (Kevin) is selling one of his '69 BM Camaros. Mark, don't you need a '69 to go w/the '68. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Souperhigh]

Thanks Dave, I just ruined a new pair of underwear!!! Yes, it does have a white stripe up front.Will unload it tomorrow and post more numbers. Seller mentioned that only 6 were made in 1967 and supposedly this is the last one standing.If so, a tremendous find. Only Joel knows!!!!

[Rat_Pack]

Souperhigh, congrats on the rare find! Check your email for the picture I sent you.

Mark, what magazine & issue did you find your car in? I envy you on your find also. Lemans Blue/blue interior is a beautiful combo in 68. Yours is Lemans Blue with a white stripe on the hood isn't it? One bad boy Camaro....................RatPack................. .......

[Stefano]

Orland Park is only approx. 40 miles from home. I did hear a story from my Attorney, not long ago ,who ran into someone that purportedly owned a 1967 or 1968 Phase III Motion.

He called me to see if I knew what a Phase III Baldwin Motion Camaro was. I asked if it was for sale and the owner had told my friend that It could be for the right price but, either Jay Leno ,Tim Allen had offered big $$$$ and that he had turned it down.

I'll bet that it is the same car, to much of a coincidence. My friend was hoping to stump me with his new found info.,as he had never heard of such a car.

I'll try and see if it is the same Car. If not, I'am at least going to try and see it, even if I can't afford it /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

When I was a teen, it is the Baldwin Motion Cars which I remember Most. I had one of the brochures which listed the various base prices, as well as the options. I would think about how wild it would have been just a few years earlier to walk into a dealership and order such a beast.

[Kurt S]

It was available to all one year ago, via ebay. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[JoeC]

have a pic on my computer of a 68 used in the Motion ads. It is a dark color with white stripe. Looks cool with RS no bumpers

[JoeC]

Another 68 on my computer. Too bad most photos were black and white. I believe this was the 68 Motion race car.

[Rat_Pack]

Joe, the first picture is of the "test" or "promo" car that you will see in most of the magazines of the day. It was Fathom Blue with blk/std interior. That car is in Florida and is supposedly heading out west to another private collector. The restoration on the car had been started but never finished. Maybe it will be done in time for next years reunion?! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

As soon as I can reduce some images I will post the 67 article pictures that I emailed Souperhigh..........................RatPack....... ......

[whitetop]

Rat Pack
Is the car from Florida Mark Timkens car?
Dave

[JoeC]

Cars June 67 has a great article. They claim it is the first Motion 427 and had the first L88 service engine installed then removed and a L72 installed. This must have been an early car since in one photo of it at Baldwin shows a window ad for left over "year end" 1966 cars. It was an SS 350 conversion, no headers, Sun 8000 tach, 67 Corvette 427 emblems on hood. Someone cropped the photo of a 427 on the grill. I notice no pin stripe on the car which I thought was part of the SS stripe package? It also has Goodyear blue streaks, window sticker, and looks like the factory windshield stickers still on it. See attached.

[copolocater]

Correct Dave,now belongs to Kevin.

[mhassett]

Rat Pack, I have been buying every magazine on E-Bay that I can get and I found mine in (January 1969 issue of RODDER and SUPER STOCK on pages 13-14-16-17) a guy named Bill Mitchell test driving it on the street with the hood off. I heard there are ONLY (2) Bladwin Motion Camaro's-Phase III with a 3rd BM being a Conversion that someone had already owned. I agree with Maurice that Only Joel knows and WISH he would talk Once and For All.. Also on page 9 thru 12 there is a big story on the other '68 which is a Rally Sport--I thinks this one belongs to Kevin S.???
Rat Pack yes mine is the Lemans Blue with blue interior the Stinger Hood with white striping.
Mark /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Stefano]

Mark,
Bill Mitchell was Joel's mechanic. He went on to contribute to Racing and Hot Rodding in many ways. Bill is still active and very well known for his Crate Engines.

It would be cool to contact him and see if he still remembers the Camaro. I don't see how he could forget it /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Souperhigh]

Stefano,
Check your email!
Thanks

[JoeC]

In the June 67 Cars magazine editorial Marty Schorr writes about test driving a 427 Nickey Camaro, the L88 Motion Camaro cover car, and a second 427 Motion Camaro with 435 hp tri power, 4sp, 4:10 gear, vinyl top, blue paint. He even has somewhat of a warning that these cars should not be sold to inexperienced drivers.

[Souperhigh]

Gentlemen, something is rotten in Denmark. The 1967 Motion Camaro I bought at Auburn has problems, possibly even legal ones. It does have a letter from Joel Rosen stating that it is a real Motion car, but last year it had a letter from Joel Rosen stating it was NOT a Motion car. We have talked to the origional first buyer, and he bought it new in Oklahoma City at Hudiburg Chevrolet in the third week of June 1967. The car was made the second week of May 1967.Yes , we now have a problem!!!!!How can Joel say this car came from Baldwin and is a Motion car, when last year he wrote it was not.And in five weeks from build date to selling date off new car lot in Oklahoma?????Gentlemen, maybe we put to much importance in a letter from Joel Rosen,which received his fee from both previous owners. This is a $100,000 deal that has gone south, I have the car now , waiting for the end result, with my check having had payment stopped!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif

[COPO]

Sorry to hear the latest news. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif Being a BMotion owner, I'm certainly interested in the outcome of how 2 vastly different letters might have been issued. In the event of not having original paperwork on a BMotion car other than Joel's letter I think it is critical to have an NICB report showing the original selling dealership to be Baldwin Chev. Though not conclusive proof, it goes a long way. Hopefully at a minumum, you end up financially whole. Keep us informed of the outcome.

[Souperhigh]

It was the NCIB report that found the origional dealership, to be Hudipold Chevrolet in Oklahoma City and we now know the list of all the former owners of the car, and have talked to all but one who was killed .In saying the car was unverifiable last year, Joel stated the car had come from Kline Chevrolet in Va.

Doesn't surprise me. I was interested in a motion corvette that Joel once tried to purchase, and could not. The owner told me that Joel felt he had bought the car out from under him. The owner then could not get the car documented, nor could I. I did however pay up the 1500 bucks, and 2 weeks later, got a "no it's not." I wanted a written document stating that it was not, with the vin. #. Never got it. Who knows, it might be a documented car in the future! I still love the motion cars, they are kick a--!!.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Re NICB reports, I also have received several different "originl selling dealer" names on the same car, so, I don't find that unbelievable. I have had to request the info until you get someone who is willing to take the time & interest to do it right. Sad, but true in my experience. Maybe the owners that sold the car at Auburn came up with paperwork, like a bogus NICB report, phoney Motion work orders, etc., and used that to sway Joel. We all know that paperwork doesn't exist on all of his cars, so, sometimes it's got to be put together piece by piece. I am certain this will get ironed out. Hopefully the bad guys will pay an appropriate price. Two things for sure; in my opinion, Joel would never knowingly verify a bogus car, and, because of this, it will now be even harder to get him to verify the real ones. He is a man of integrity and $1500 will not cause him to go against that.

[JoeC]

This sounds like a very unfortunate situation. Have you talked to Joel about the new information you have? What does he say about the car now?

[Stefano]

I don't know this car and hope all works out well for 'SuperHigh'. First Car dealers did trade vehicles amungst themselves and did go across state lines to get them.

The NICB report may only show the dealer, to which the car was delivered originally, direct from the factory, although the NICB has been able to document some dealer trades.

The window from body tag to consumer sale date in itself does not exclude the car from being a Baldwin Motion or Motion Car.

Just trying to look at the positive side /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[copolocater]

Sorry to hear about the car but already had an inckling.Last year when the car was for sale the gentleman selling the car could not get Joel to verify the car.A few weeks ago I put a post about vendor buying.These guys know that the time frame on verifying a car is minimal and that fear of losing a great deal has people in a split decision bind. That's why the car showed up at auction.The guys selling the car knew there was a larger value that could be placed on that car outside the auction.I give you credit for taking a chance,I probably would have done the same in a similar situation.Good luck.

[Souperhigh]

Well closure is near. The folks at Kruse/eBay auctions which held the large auction in Auburn are a class act. They are taking the car back at their expence and going to sell it as a clone and give the proceeds that are left after they take their due commissions out and give the remaining amount to the seller. The reason and how the new letter from Joel came into being, I will not discuss. If any of you guys frequent the classic car auctions, then you know that the Kruse,the Leake, and the Branson auction that Jim and Kathy Cox has are the top of the line. They are at the top for integrity along with the fine people at Russo-Steele and the Barrett-Jackson auctions. In a crazy world where some people try to make a fast buck, it is nice to deal with people who still do business the old fashioned way, with pride and passion for their work.

[MikeA]

It's good to hear that people still have pride in their business. I'm glad that everything seems to be working out!

[copolocater]

Congrats Dean & the guys are a class act.Does that mean steaks for everybody at the reuion? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[mc25t190]

glad it all worked out and another collector wasn't left holding the bag. nice to hear the auction did there part. integrity always wins! it is however, a shame, that there are those who participate in this hobby could give it a black eye. i know maurice would rather have had a baldwin motion car.!

[Stefano]

Glad to hear that things worked out for you and Kruse and look forward to seeing the real deal '68 Phase III at the reunion. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[mhassett]

Maurice, Really GLAD everything is going to work out for you. I know you would rather have the Baldwin Motion than go thru all this--BUT at least you will get your Money back. I am VERY THANKFUL to Copolocater who gave me the FIRST chance on my Motion Camaro. Everything was checked out and I have Peace of Mind about the car.. I thought that the price I heard you paid for it was too low so I was alittle worried about it for you. People will do anything and fake paperwork to make the quick big bucks.
See you at the reunion and you will have a great time and relax.
Take care, Mark /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Mr70]

Great,now cut to the chase...
What do you think they will want for that CLONE 67 B/M Camaro???
Looks like a fun car.
If I buy it,I will emboss "CLONE" on it's frame and frewall,and cowl tag. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[COPO]

Great news! Glad to hear it worked out.

[copolocater]

I think it sold for $28-30000. It would help to list all vin % trim info so it can be recorded!!!

[Souperhigh]

They are picking up the car tomorrow (wednesday) and I will find out how they are going to sell the car if anyone is interested. It really is a NICE car.

[Souperhigh]

Hey Thank You to all you super car lovers for your advice and support. Here is the vin# and trim# on this car:
vin#124377N222717
\cowl tag
05C E BODY PAINT
67-12437 NOR122790
760-Z A-A
E 2LG 3K
4k

motor #T1109TRH

[JoeC]

Did the original owners say what engine came in this car? The trim tag numbers look like a fairly early L78 Camaro with style trim, 4sp, console, Tuxedo Black, and tinted windows. I believe only something like 1138 L78s were built in 67. Nice car if the trim tag is original.

[Souperhigh]

First owner said the car came new with a 375hp/396,with a 456 rear end,tach and guages,a T8D Holly carb and then optional metallic brakes in the front.This comes from the origional first owner and he blew up the 396 approx: 1 year later and replaced it with a 427.

[Souperhigh]

This is a really neat car, with lots of power and in terrific shape too. I would of loved to have taken it out to the track in Tulsa just to see how good it really is, but do to the situation at hand, I had to just think about it.If you want more information , go to Kruse Auctions and check out last years Auburn sale ,car #430 and read the description, or go to this years sale results.
Charley, would of been fun escorting that Phase III of yours around and waiting at the finish line for you /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Souperhigh]

oops!!!! I said that /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I'm not sure the Mickey Thompson tires wanna go very fast. You be hopin I don't find the Nitrous button.

[JoeC]

I couldn't find it on the web site. Does it have a stinger hood with the 1968 Impala SS427 emblems on the sides of the hood scoop?

[copolocater]

The hood on the 67 is a repro.

[oboym]

is there anybody with any pics of the car that thay can post.

[oboym]

here it is on ebay. ????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871208588

[Souperhigh]

The Kruse auction people are very honest people. Upon learning of the -let's say- errors in paperwork by seller at Auburn auction the Kruse people had me stop payment on my check for a little under $100,000 on this car. This Kruse auction company is a top flight car auction company right up there with the fine folks at Barrett-Jackson, Russo-Steele, and Richard Sevenoaks and the Leake Family auctions, along with the super auctions held at Branson Missouri twice yearly by Jim and Kathy Cox.It is really nice that some companies and people still put integrity and honesty in front of undeserved profit. I am sure there are more great honest auction companies out there but these listed above are the best of the ones I have dealt with.

[L78Impala]

I know it's a clone and all, but it's still a great look'n car.
I can see why you bought it.

[MrMotion]

Question, Does this "Sleeper" of a Camaro loose its "SuperCar" status because its a "cloned SuperCar". Remember, this 396-375 HP Camaro terrorized the street scene before Copo Camaros were born, and at night you wouldn't know what blew past you! Note: My Car is identical 1968 Camaro with full Canadian Documentation and an afidavide documenting the L72 "Conversion" at Motion Performance in March of 1968, and "Pictoral Race History" at Detroit Dragway. Iam only trying to get a view of what is considered a "SuperCar".

[Mr70]

I Think Joel Rosen is a great part of our Hobby today,and I respect him.But how come he did not see this was not one of his Conversions?To me that is very disturbing.Has it ever happened before?

[Souperhigh]

There were letters from Joel stating it could not be verified as a B/M car and then a year later there was a letter supposedly from Joel saying it was indeed a B/M car. It is really a super car and yes anyone here should to try to buy it to play with. It is is excellent shape and does sound sooo good. If anyone on this site does buy it, then I will share some of the information I have on the car.

[JoeC]

The SS427 emblems on the hood are 1968 Impala which Motion could not have used until 1968. I don't believe the Motion fender emblems and those Motion valve covers where used in 1967 either. It does not appear that whoever restored the car did a good job on research. In my opinion.

[COPO]

I had heard the paperwork from Rosen was faked.

[djunod]

I just heard tonight at our Corvette BBQ that there is a documented Baldwin-Motion 67 Camaro in Lincolnton GA. They don't ever show it or take it anywhere it is just sitting hidden away in storage. Heard it from a pretty reliable source.

I'm amazed at the things I find out about around here. There's another guy that has a '53 Corvette with stuff stack up all around it & over it in his garage. Won't tell anyone about it. Only found out about it from a friend that does NCRS-winning restorations. He was told that it was '54... but he knew better when he saw it.

[Souperhigh]

I am not at liberty to say for sure if it was fake or if Joel was paid to sign it.I did make a copy of the letter. The backer on the car in the auction was a high profile person and just offered to let Kruse sell the car and take out their rightful commissions, both from the buyer and seller commissions, and just take what was left. The car sold a year before at this same auction with a leter from Joel saying it could not be verified for $40,000.I can't say if the second letter was fake or not.

[copolocater]

Dave that could possibly be Sixtiesmuscles 69 documented converted Motion camaro it recently came from Lincolnton Ga.

[djunod]

The person that told me about was absolutely certain that it is a '67. It was just after I had read here (yesterday) about there being only 2 known '67's B/M Camaros, so I had questioned him about the year specifically.

BTW---Lincolnton is a rather small town...

[Belair62]

Anyone know what happened to this car or where it went ?

[oboym]

US $32,100.00 (reserve not yet met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871208588[/url]

[djunod]

Belair62, which car are you referring to?

[Belair62]

The one above that is linked....