Rare LS6 - restoration to begin - question...?

[Rare_LS6]

Hi there,

I'm about to begin the restoration on my #'s matching LS6. I've been
doing alot of research on this car and other LS6 cars to make sure the
restoration is completed correctly the first time. Yet, I have one very
important question that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction and
thought maybe someone here can help out....Paint color!

The car is numbers matching (less distributor) and sits in it's original
paint that appears to be "Daytona Yellow" - very faded. I've removed the
door panels and the paint again appears to be "Daytona Yellow"...

I have the build sheet for this chevelle which confirms this car as a true
LS6 chevelle with the "ZP3 Special Paint" option, plus a few more interesting
things;

On the build sheet in the box #44 "color" - hand written is "Special" and
underlined.

Below in the option listing area the option;
D88 - Hood & Deck Str <-- this is crossed out.

Below the option listing area - the large blank area:
* Delete Stripes. (large star and hand written)

BYPASS CODE 2: (factory type)
SOLID COLOR 926 - 99568 - YELLOW (all hand written)

This number (926 99568) matches the number on the trim tag (cowl tag) right
before "PNT" as well as "-" (TR 753 926-99568 - PNT). I've seen on other
cars ordered with special paint that have the "-" or "--" but never a eight
digit code before it.

Bottom line...I need to be correct in choice of paint color before I paint
this car. Having spoke to others, some have mentioned the color to be
"Daytona Yellow" or "Sunflower Yellow" (any real difference?). I've yet to
see a good representation of these colors in any paint chip book. Could the
eight digit code on the build sheet and trim tag help determine the true
paint code...?

Also, how rare is a LS6 car with a ZP3 special paint option....?

Any help would be VERY helpful.

[Nova Research Project]

Rare_LS6;

This looks like a DuPont paint code. I would visit a paint supplier who sells Dupont Automotive paints and see if they have a listing in thier 1969 automotive paint chip books.

This dupont site can research you code for a fee http://www.dupontautomotivepaint.net/index.asp

"Ketone can now assist you with providing you with the mixing formula for DuPont automotive paints or technical advice for $5.95 per formula or per question"

I hope this helps,
Greg

Greg

[Schonyenko2]

Checked my Dupont book, shows 52 (912) sunflower yellow, late 70as in end of run year. Daytona yellow shows 76 (984) 69.Yes there is quite a difference in the two colors. What is the build date on the car? If its before spring of 70 probably to early for sunflower. I personally have never seen a code 52 SS 70 Chevelle. Novas, Camaros. but no Chevelles.Not saying there wasn't any, just never saw one that was original.Will be interesting to see what this shakes out to be. Ken S.

[Mr70]

Welcome!
Sounds like from what you have stated that it is an authentic Datona Yellow special paint car..
Daytona Yellow was used in 69/70.Sunflower Yellow was used in Spring 1970 and is a completely different color.I too have never seen Sunflower yellow on a 1970 Chevelle.
Does your buildsheet show RPO ZL-2 Cowl induction as well? It should.
I have a few copies of 1970 Chevelle buildsheets and the ZP3 special paint cars are similar to your descriptions.They are unique in their own right,but no way to verify how many actually came with that color.
What plant built your Chevelle,and what is the cowl tag date.
Do you have an email address I can contact you at? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[COPO PETE]

If you go way back on this site, there was a thread called Daytona Yellow. Might be an interesting read for you!
Peter

[JoeC]

Do you have anything in box no. 60 on your build sheet? There was a guy on here with a Monaco Orange LS6 that was in a MCR article called "Mystery Chevelle" or something like that. I have heard of other 1970 cars with these two colors. Since the Monaco/Hugger Orange and Daytona Yellow were special order Chevelle colors in 69, there were probably some customers who asked for these colors in 1970 so they made if available. It may have required using the COPO process to get them built. This would explain special numbers on the build sheet.

[Rare_LS6]

Thanks for the info - so far...

The area of the most confusion for me is exactly what the eight digit code means - Tracking number, paint code, special order number, COPO number...? The "926" at the begining would seem logical to be a paint code....yet, I haven't been able to find a color for that code. The 99568 code...no idea...9568...copo number?

Some more details;
Mr70 - Yes, the car has ZL-2 Cowl Induction.
The car was built in Van Nuys in Jan. and delivered to Garden Grove Ca. (SoCal).

I've personally only seen one other LS6 chevelle with the ZP3 option and the paint delete "-" on the trim tag (not to say there aren't more) that car was orange.

Anymore info....

[JoeC]

On the cover of Colvin's book 70-75 Chevy by the numbers is a 70 454 Chevelle that looks like Daytona Yellow. I don't know if this is an original car but there were not many made in Monaco Orange or Daytona Yellow.

[Rare_LS6]

JoeC -

Yes, I've seen the car on the cover of Colvin's Book 70-75...nice car. I have a zerox of my build sheet here at work - box #60 appears to be blank...?

Is box #60 for a copo number...?

[JoeC]

I have seen COPO build sheet with numbers in box 60. Not only hi po COPO but also fleet order stuff. But your car was built in Cali and those free spirited Cali people did weird stuff to build sheets and trim tags. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif They may have used the hand written numbers instead of typing in the boxes. I have not seen too many Cali COPOs but if you can email or post the build sheet I may be able to notice some similarities to other COPO build sheets.

[Nova Research Project]

Rare_LS6;

I think the whole number is the paint code. I still can not find a it exactly, but I found similar numbers. Check out this link for similar codes used on 1969 Buicks. Buick paint codes (http://www.atlantabuick.com/PaintCodes.htm)

Greg

[copo9566aa]

Sample of Yellow paint chip 69/70.
Chevrolet
Pontiac
Buick
Oldsmobile

[Rare_LS6]

Rick

Thanks for the tip - I went to the web site and it would appear that this number would be a paint code - I got so excite I call Dupont Corp. I just got off the phone with the Dupont Paint Division - No luck, they said that the code doesn't exist in their entire data base. I even had them look up reference to Daytona and Sunflower Yellow just to be sure...no luck.

I'm stump'd....I just need to be sure of the paint color before it hits the car...

[Schonyenko2]

Had my son, who paints at the best independent bodyshop in the Quad cities run it through Dupont, ppg, and sikens. No hits. Many paint jobbers have spectrometers that can read the paint and cross match a color. Find one that has one take them a chip and see what it shows.Maybe you could post a picture of that trim tag. I'd like to see that. Ken S.

[Mr70]

Why I believe you have a special order Daytona Yellow Code 76 Paint on your Chevelle:
*ZP3 appears on ALL special Paint Cars.
*Januaury is too early to be Sunflower Yellow.I have documents stating it was not available until Spring 1970.I.E. April/May 1970.
*Box #60 is blank on some of these cars buildsheets.Some show the word "Paint"typed in,or hand written.
* 926 appears on all my ZP3 special paint buildsheets as well.Be it Monacco Orange,or a buick Gold paint on a Chevy.Those digits after the three digit code seem to be the call out for that specific color.After reading what has been said here,I am guessing that is a COPO color code of sorts,or Chevrolets in house coding.

[Schonyenko2]

I agree this may be a Daytona yellow car, but could be code 51 for 70. 76 and 51 might be the same, but should check the mix formula as one may be brighter than the other. This is true of code 75 cranberry red. 70 has black tint, 71, same name and number has white. I'm guessing this was inhouse special order vs COPO as COPO as I understand it was usually more than one unless he owned a cab company and had it painted with the order. I guess we may never know for sure, but having it checked with the spectrum machine should tell you what it is, or close to it. My son did find some interesting info on dates of color availability as in spring of 70. I will ask Rob to post an attachment. Note the last three colors added to the 70 Novas. These were the 10 each Yenko deuce colors. Ken S.

[Jim Mattison]

It appears that your car was special ordered through the Chevrolet Fleet & Special Order Department (many of you folks call it the COPO Group).

During the years that I was a part of this group, we processed many orders for vehicles with special paint. Although these vehicles were ordered with "special paint", they are not concidered to be COPO cars. I'm surprised that more of these "special paint" cars haven't shown-up, as many of these orders were for performance cars.

The paint information (926-99568) that you have on both the build sheet and on the trim tag "is" in fact a Dupont paint number. I don't understand why your local Dupont folks can't identify it for you. The "926" denotes that the color is a non-metallic and the "99568" is the mixing formula. While this color may in fact be for Daytona Yellow, it could also be for some other yellow, including a truck color, or a yellow from another car manufacturer. The paint information that was stamped on your trim tag was supposed to be able to assist you or your body shop to identify the "special paint" color, if repair or re-painting was needed at a later date.

If your local paint supplier cannot identify the paint code, I'd give them a piece of this original paint, from an area that has not been exposed to the elements. Hopefully they can scan the color and provide you with a proper match.

Let me know if I can be of any other help to decipher the color.

Jim Mattison

[copo9566aa]

Wow this is a very very good information.I think that one has still much has to learn on special paint.I like this. <font color="yellow"> </font color>

[Charley Lillard]

Jim...I hope you are writing this stuff down somewhere.

[Mr70]

Jim M.
That is very good information.
Here is what I am showing on two special paint 1970 Chevelle Super Sports.These buildsheets have the same parameters as the one Rare_LS6 has.Can you help answer my questions?

Chevelle #1
In center of RPO codes on one buildsheet:
"TAG S C TRICENTENNIAL"
"HOOD,ENTIRE BODY,FRT.FENDERS 927-98457 GOLD METALLIC ACRYLIC LACQUER....WHEELS-767-98457 GOLD METALLIC BAKING ENAMEL."

*What does 767 stand for,and have you ever seen wheels painted like this?
*What does TAG SC TRICENTENNIAL mean?
This chevelle was ordered new by a South Carolina dealer named Burwell Chevrolet.

Chevelle #2
In center of RPO codes on Buildsheet states:
"F&amp;SO RDO66 1001HA SPEC ORDER Paint DEPT.
1001HA HOOD,FENDERS,AND ENTIRE BODY 926-99616 ORANGE ACRYLIC LACQUER."
*What does F&amp;SO RDO66 1001HA Stand for?
Appreciate any help you or others can give.
Rick

[COPO]

mr70, on the first car listed, it sounds like a car destined for the Charleston, S.C area. In 1970, Charleston celebrated it's 300 year b-day. I was living there at the time and clearly remember the tri-centennial parade. I'll hve to look through my pictures and see if I can find a Chevelle from the parade.

[Jim Mattison]

The prefix "767" denotes that the color is a Dupont metallic wheel enamel. A non-metallic wheel enamel would be "766".

I am reasonably sure that I didn't process this order, as yes, the entire wheel on this Chevelle SS would have been painted gold. Some of the guys in my group didn't take the time to think about the possibility of a car having some type of sport wheels. You have to remember that the majority of our business was that of police cars, taxis and municipal vehicles, which came whith the standard steel wheels. Occasionally, the plant would call and question the painting instructions, but not all that often!

The next five (5) digits are for the mixing formula of the paint. While I'm not 100% sure, I believe that "98457" is the mixing formula for Anniversary Gold, which has been used on a variety of Chevys over the years, to commemorate various anniversarys.

On your other Chevelle, the mixing formula "99616" is for what we used to call "Road Commission Orange". This was a very popular special order color on trucks, but some cars were ordered with it too! Mostly on "hot rods"!!!

The "1001HA" is the pricing code for the special paint. The charges for a solid color special paint would vary from no charge (1001AA) to $125.00 (1001HA). We would paint a vehicle any color under the rainbow except for the Cadillac Firemist colors and Corvette colors. Our special paint book would have thousands of special colors it it..... with more being added weekly. Unfortunately, those days are gone forever!!!

I can still remember the cars that we special painted "Kelly Green" for John Delorean, when he was general manager of Chevy and dating Kelly Harmon. Lots of special "Pink" cars for Nancy Sinatra, too!!!

F&amp;SO "RD0066" refers to the document number for the special order instructions. These numbers were assigned by my department. This order was the 66th at this plant for the 1970 model year. I believe that the "R" is for the GM Assembly Plant in Arlington, Texas?

I hope that this information is helpful.

Jim Mattison

[Mr70]

COPO
Please let me know if you find anything.That would be interestng to me.Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Jim M.
Yes, that Chevelle is from the Arlington Tx. Plant.
As always your deciphering is very helpful and much appreciated.
If you wrote a book about this stuff,I would buy it. Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Chevy454]

Jim:

AWESOME info as usual! Hardcore info like that is what keeps people coming back to this board! Any more you'd like to share?

[Rare_LS6]

I'm amazed how helpful everyone has been here...thank you. I've been trying to obtain accurate information about the paint details of this car for over a year now. I've received so much conflicting information and just plain misinformation it's amazing. The information I've received here in the past few days has been second to none!

I called two paint stores, again this weekend, they assured me they could give me details about the Dupont paint, and/or mixing formula based upon the code...no dice!

Jim - If you have anymore information about mixing formula for code "99568" or actual paint "name" - I'd be very thankful. I'm currently trying to locate a auto paint store that can accept a piece of unweathered paint and decipher it with their digital spectromitor.

[JoeC]

Jim, Was there different levels or different types of special paint and/or a different ordering process used? On the 1969 Chevelles the Monaco (Hugger) Orange and Daytona Yellow had to be ordered as special paint available only with the SS option. These cars have the normal paint code on the trim tag in the normal field. The COPO process was probably not needed for these. On Monaco (Hugger) Orange and Daytona Yellow COPO cars and non standard colors such as Carolina Blue, the trim tags have a - (dash) and no paint code on the trim tag. On 1967 Camaros a - (dash) was used where an SS car was ordered without the mandatory SS nose stripe. Do you remember any rules for when the dash was used with no paint code? Did the dash on the trim tag denote that there was a special COPO process or special assembly instructions? thanks

[copo9566aa]

Thanks Joe
It was exactly the same question which I wanted to ask him.

[Kurt S]

I think it was up to the plant on how they handled the tags. Jim may have a better answer. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Jim,
How was the pricing (1001AA - 1001HA) determined? We'd seen the different ECL's but didn't know the meaning.
Were all special paint instructions, include stripe deletes, handled thru the F&amp;SO office?
Thanks!

[sYc]

See attachment (from Schony)

[Schonyenko2]

Thank you Tom.My son Joe ran across this looking for info for that LS6 color. It shows that April is when the spring colors became available. Also thought it was neat how it showed when the three late run deuce colors became available for Novas. Great thread, thanks Jim for the info. Schonye

[COPO PETE]

I have a copy of a window sticker of a 69 COPO Chevelle that shows 01001HA "special paint" That shows suggested price as $33.75. and actual price as $26.71. My COPO Chevelle tag shows -- and it was a daytona yellow car.
Peter

[JoeC]

What I am thinking on the COPO Chevelles is that since they were not SS Chevelles they needed some additional COPO paper work to get the SS only colors Monaco Orange and Daytona Yellow.

[Kurt S]

Just a post on terminology.
We talked about this several months ago and Jim has confirmed it above. The ordering of the special colors was not a COPO process. A more accurate statement is that special paint needed Central Office approval (specifically the F&amp;SO dept).

And I was thinking the same thing about the special paint Chevelles. But couldn't see much logic to it. An orange SS or an orange plainjane is still orange with the same paint code. But something at the plant made it need to be differentiated......

[copo9566aa]

Just a sample
I found a 69 Chevelle with - - PNT and the body is all sandblasted,
no trace of painting.
I contact GM Canada with the VIN.I have chance this is a Chevelle
sold in Canada. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
GM Canada confirm this is a Chevelle COPO with ZP3 special paint
But the paint is not recorded. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
Another chance I have the buildsheet,the buildsheet show 1001HA
special order paint price, "cool but Yellow or Orange" /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
How I lets to know if it were Daytona Yellow or Monaco Orange Chevelle
COPO or another special paint. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

This is just a sample. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[hvychev]

This is a GREAT post! I second Mr70's suggestion to Jim M that if he wrote a book that I would buy it as well. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[JoeC]

COPO9566, I would think that there should be some sign of original paint color even if the body was chemical dipped. My Chevelle still has original rugs and under them the original paint is in good condition. Look at all interior parts that were removed such as seat brackets, screws, hinges, etc. for a trace of the original paint color or chips of original paint.
I ran this post through English-French conversion software. Not sure if it will read correctly.

Je penserait cela l·-bas doit ’tre quelques signe d'original peinture m’me si le corps ªtait chimique trempª. Mon Chevelle a toujours des tapis originaux et sous eux la peinture originale est dans la bonne condition. Regarde du tout intªrieur qui ont Etª enlevª tel que si¿ge , vis, gonds, etc. pour une trace de l'original peinture ou fragments d'original peinture. J'ai couru cette poste par le logiciel de conversion anglais-fran°ais. Pas s
r s'il lira correctement.

[Jim Mattison]

Wow!!! It appears that there is a lot of interest in the special paint process. I'll do my best to answer most all of everyones questions.

First, back in the late 60s and early 70s anyone could order their new Chevy with a special color. Literally any color under the rainbow was available, except for the Cadillac Firemist colors.

The pricing for a solid color "Special Paint" would vary between no charge and $125.00. Volume would dictate the pricing.

If the customer was a fleet account, or if the dealer would order multiple vehicles in the same color, the pricing would be n/c. However, if the dealer would order a single unit, the pricing could go as high as $125, with various prices in between, based on many other factors.

Some of the other conditions that would require a car order to come through my group were: "Delete Stripes" on a Z-28, Chevelle SS, or other model with painted stripes. A color that was current production , but on a different model, would also require our approval. We did lots of cars in "Hugger Orange" that normally didn't come in that color as n/c. Also, you wouldn't believe the number of Chevrolets that were painted the popular 1968-69 Pontiac color, "Verdoro Green"! I even remember a fair number of cars being ordered in the 1970 Chrysler color "Plum Crazy"!

It's too bad that I can't get to the Supercar Reunion this year and answer many of your questions in person. It would be so much easier to explain in more detail. However, with the production on the F-body coming to a close, GM has me scheduled to go to the Corvette Museum and represent both Chevy and Pontiac on the same weekend at the Camaro-Firebird Gathering, in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Jim Mattison

[Mr70]

Jim M.
Why were the Cadillac Firemist colors excluded from these cars.Was it cost?

What is it that Chevrolet has you working on that you spoke about earlier in another topic a while ago? Long lost VIN# records perhaps?

Seriously,Have you been in touch with a publisher to write a book about all your GM experiences?
You are a living treasured asset to all of us!
Rick

[Jeff H]

Wow, great information Jim. And you thought we were just interested in high performance stuff! LOL! Now it makes us wish there was some source of original documentation( like PHS) for our Chevy's even more. Jim, I was wondering if your group had anything to do with the JL8 4 wheel disc brake cars. I assume no, since it was an RPO, but it did seem to be an oddball process based on Wayne Guinn's information. I have the broadcast sheet with my JL8 but the window sticker would have been great to have too.

[Rare_LS6]

Definitive proof....Well, I just got off the phone with Dupont Corporate (again)
and finally got the information I've been looking for regarding my ZP3 optioned
LS6 Chevelle. This information might interest others here at the board as well
(see attached chart). Dupont was very helpful in answering my questions that
date back to 1969-70! Others needing specific questions answered by Dupont can
reach Dupont Color information at 1-800-338-7668 (digital operator, press
#3 then #1). This will put you in touch with "Janice" the Dupont Color person
who was very helpful! I just recieved a detailed fax from "Janice", this page
is taken from a Dupont Paint Code book...love to get a copy of this book!

Please see the attached file for a cross reference chart of Dupont paint codes,
Lucite stock numbers, Production codes, and Master Fisher Codes used on Chevrolet
passenger cars (1969).

For my car "926-99568" on the chart clearly states "Daytona Yellow".....

[SS427]

Congrats on your find. One more time with the help of this board, difficult issues are resolved. Sounds like you are well on your way to a very thorough restoration. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Rick

[copo9566aa]

Bon enfin ces des information comme ca que j'aime. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif
Thanks Rare LS6.

[JoeC]

Jim has a good memory. He said "The prefix "767" denotes that the color is a Dupont metallic wheel enamel. A non-metallic wheel enamel would be "766"." It appears on this chart that they used a similar code for the body color with 926 as non-metallic colors and the 927 is a metallic color. That chart is a great find.

[Schonyenko2]

This must be above and beyond your average jobber, or boby shop code book,as I have a Dupont book and it doesn't have production, or Fisher codes. I notice this only shows Lucite stock numbers not dulux, or Centari codes like a regular code book. This must have been a more specific factory version as the factory would have been shooting only laquer then. Never seen anything like this. Cool! Schonye

[NEATSS]

How were these special paint cars handled at the factory? I have seen 3 unrestored hugger/monacco orange LS6 cars over the past 20 years. The first one I looked at very carefully for signs of a repaint. It had the - - cowl tag. Inside the trunk on the torson bars for the hinges it showed gobi beige(code 50). It had a shine where it was not covered with orange overspray so it was not primer. Were these cars painted a neutral color on the line and then pulled off the line and topcoated or was this car just a freak?

[Jim Mattison]

The Cadillac Firemist colors were excluded due to them having such a course metallic. These colors needed to be sprayed through a special paint gun. Even on a Cadillac, the Firemist paint was quite a costly option!

As for doing a book........... I'll be the first to confess that I throughly enjoyed the years that I spent at Chevrolet. Lots of things were going on! It was a time in the automotive industry that we will never see again, as the industry has changed so dramatically!

I'll be happy to talk to folks about some of my experiences at Chevrolet (both the good and the bad), if I were to see you at a show or event. However, I sincerely doubt if anyone would ever want to read about my adventures. I was just a small fish in a big pond!

Jim Mattison

[Charley Lillard]

OK...It sounds like Jim doesn't want to write all this stuff down so maybe the best way to get into his head is to just keep asking him questions on this Forum. When he answers, we will have a Record of his recollections that can be saved. Ahh, his head is gonna hurt.

[Kurt S]

&gt; the pricing could go as high as $125, with various prices
&gt; in between, based on many other factors.

Do you recall what some of the other factors would be? Did availability of the paint (another GM color vs a special order color) affect the pricing?
This is more an operations question: do you know just how did the paint vendor handle these one-off orders? Just enough paint for the Fisher Body side and another quantity for the Chevy side? And hope the car didn't need major paint repairs in the plant?

Thanks!

[Jim Mattison]

The pricing for "Special Paint" was based on if the color was a current production color on another Chevy model, the number of vehicles ordered and if the account was a "Fleet Account". We would also have the ability to, at our discression, change the paint pricing on an order, if we felt that it was justified.

As far as the paint itself. Dupont would sent an ample amount to both the Fisher Body facility and to the corresponding Chevrolet plant. All of this paint was "factory package" direct from Dupont, so color matching wouldn't be a problem.

Also, on all special paint orders, a quart of paint would be shipped in the glove box of the car, so that the dealer could do any touch-up, if needed. A note would accompany this quart of paint, recommending that the owner write down the paint number inside their owners manual for future reference.

Jim Mattison

[Charley Lillard]

So a perfectly restored special paint car should have a quart of paint in the glove box to make it complete....Or points will now be deducted. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[SS427]

Only if it has never been opened and still contains the original '70 air makeup. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
Rick

[copo9566aa]

Very cool but this chart is for 1969 Chevrolet car.
This chart do not show the production code "926-98371"
for a 70 Chevelle SS 454 LS6 with special paint blue.
This is just a remark.

Thanks

[Mr70]

Would that be the North Carolina Blue LS-6 at Legendary holding White stripes now?

[copo9566aa]

Yes this Carolina Blue LS-6.

[Charley Lillard]

somewhere on this site I posted that Carolina blue build sheet awhile back....the paint cost the orig. owner either 102.00 or 103.00, can't remember which. Sheet says Lower color-926-98731 Blue A.L. to the left of that it says F&amp;SO 80897 1001PA bypass code 06, also says ZP3 special paint.

[JoeC]

Someone posted on Team Chevelle that they have a 70 Chevelle with "CHARLES BRITT COPPER &amp; STRIPE WHITE" on the build sheet. Anyone know whats up with this?