Seeking some additional knowledge

[Don_Lightfoot]

This is again for my 69 Velle Resource page on my website.

According to information on this site there were 99 Yenkos sold, is that accurate or a guesstimate?

What would be the estimated range of COPO's produced including the Yenkos?

Were COPO's only produced at specific plants?

Again, I appreciate any feedback.

[copo9566aa]

Don
323 estimated L72 Chevelle (L78/L72) (COPO) (9562 & 9566)
99* estimated converted to Yenko (L78/L72/Yenko)
224 estimated not converted to yenko (L78/L72)
9562 production ??? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
9566 production ??? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
*(99 strange number) /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
Question in a question
Chevelle COPO started life with RPO L78 (replaced with RPO L72)
The 323* COPO Chevelle is counted or uncounted on the total
production of L78 Chevelle(*9000).

[Belair62]

We do know there was at least 1 COPO Chevelle built at the Freemont California plant /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Keith Tedford]

I have a photo copy of a 1987 letter in which Fran Preve states that there were 93 MP 3964268 automatic and 265 MQ 3964269 4 speed engine assemblies built in 1969. The CE engines that I have seen just have CExxxxxxx stamped on them. This would lead me to believe that there were probably 358 COPO Chevelles built and an additional number of CE replacement engine assemblies added to the total number of engines built. The 323 number that is commonly used is based on 358 total built with 10% going to warehousing for warranty and over the counter sales. In this case it would mean that the warehouse engines would be stamped MP or MQ as well. Our warranty replacement motor in our '69 L78 Chevelle doesn't have the JD code stamped on it. I would think that this would hold true for COPO cars as well. Could be all wrong though as this is only an assumption.

[Stefano]

Oh, so there is one of those California*COPOs.

[Belair62]

Stefano....I * think* you * may* have * developed* some * kind * of* tick * !!! There is treatment for that ! /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Stefano]

I have said it once and will say it again ,you are an * /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif

[copo9566aa]

Oh no another Douglass (http://www.douglashospital.qc.ca/index_en.htm) thread *** /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Don_Lightfoot]

Quality information guys, thanks very much.

It appears the general consensus is a total of 323 of which 99 were Yenkos, as Roger has disclosed. Interesting question regarding "were they included in the L78 production numbers?" Keith, your input is always informative.

Belair62 mentions at least one at the Freemont plant, what other plants built them?

I'll leave it to you guys to figure out that *tick* scenario /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[JoeC]

I don't agree with that 323 number for COPO Chevelles. I believe it to be more like 200. The 323 was based on engine production which can be off by a large amount. I believe the engines were ordered in advance on estimations then whatever was not used was sold as service or parts counter engines. The ZL1 Corvette engine build was over 80 only 2 cars sold. I have other reasons - will post later.

[copo9566aa]

Production number information by COPO connection.
69 Yenko Chevelle 99 (http://www.copo.com/L72-VIN-Yenko-Chevelle.htm) and 1969 COPO Chevelle 9562 & 9566
estimated at 224 (http://www.copo.com/L72-VIN-Chevelle.htm).

[Stefano]

I would tend to agree with Joe on this. We have a good Idea that 10 were sold by Berger Chevrolet and that 10 were sold by Douglass Chevrolet. We know that Prout Chevrolet had at least a few as well as some other misc. Dealers.

Other than the Canadian cars not much has surfaced to indicate that many more were sold.

[bbdon]

I don't want to question anyones numbers, but I don't know if we can determine the production numbers by how many we see today. Cars with no stripes or SS emblems to make them stand out could to go unnoticed. Here's an example, we know that there were 1279 1968 Novas built with L-79 engines, but how often do you seet one today?

[Stefano]

What I was trying to say is that it took the whole Yenko Network to sell 99 Chevelles and the few dealers who did direct order, sold them as a low percentage to the Camaro L72s.
Does anyone have a Prout, Douglass* or Berger L72 Chevelle?

[Keith Tedford]

I think I mentioned this before. An acquaintance, who is restoring a COPO Chevelle, has information on 29 of the 30 COPO Chevelles sold in Canada. Back in '69 a friend worked in the GM Oshawa main office. He told us about the COPO deal. Later in the year he said that 18 Chevelles were ordered but 5 were cancelled due to the long wait. apparently 13 wasn't the correct number either. I'm sure there are still a few lurking out there. Keeps things interesting.

[JoeC]

Here is my estimation "Theory" (not fact) on why I think the figure 323 COPO Chevelles built is too high and is more like 200 total of which 99 were Yenkos.

Some people use the number total of 1338 COPO Camaros and COPO Chevelles built (derived from the number of engines produced) to estimate the number of cars built. The engines were built on a forecast of car production and I believe it is too easy to over estimate car production using engine production since it can be up to 100% inaccurate. There were situations where engines were assembled and stamped with a code for a car that was never built. If you use engine production to estimate that particular cars production number you would be 100% off. Another example is the 1969 ZL1 Corvette where over 80 engines were built and stamped and 2 cars were sold to the public.
According to a Chevy service documentation in ED's book there were 700 427 COPO cars "in process" on July 7, 1969 including ZL1's, Yenkos, COPO Camaros and COPO Chevelles. It is not clear what they mean by "in process" but I would think the trim tag date on a car that was "in process" in July would have the trim tag date July or later date. If you take the 700 COPO's and subtract the known cars - 69 ZL1's, 198 Yenko Camaros, and 99 Yenko Chevelles you get 700-69-198-99=334 remaining COPO cars that were non Yenko non ZL1 Camaros and Chevelles built as of July '69. If you take the engine numbers estimate and subtract Yenkos you get 1338-198-99=1041. That would be 1041 engines left to be put in 334 non Yenko non ZL1 COPOs after July '69. 1041 is a big difference compared to 334 non Yenko non ZL1 COPO cars refered to in the service letter. (The ZL1's were not included in the 1338 engines total so I didn't subtract them)
If the Chevy service document is correct, and there were 700 COPO cars "in process" on July 7, 1969 then they would have to have built 707 more COPO Camaros and Chevelles between July and Nov 1969 (1041-334=707) to match the engine production total. No way they built 707 non Yenko non ZL1 COPO cars with July or later build date. I know the 1969 Camaros ran late into Nov.'69 but I have not heard of that many COPO cars with a trim tag date of July or later so I find it difficult to believe they could have made 707 COPO cars after July'69. The trouble with this theory is I don't know how accurate the Chevy service letter is that stated 700 units were "in Process" on July 7, 1969.
This theory combined with the fact that not many COPO Chevelles have surfaced, and there were problems with selling them later in the year, leads me to believe the 323 number is on the high side. I would guess its more like 200.

[Keith Tedford]

Makes sense to me. Our car is a "7E" and I have only seen one VIN later than ours and it was built 20 after ours. /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif
Back in '69 our Chevelle cost $268.00 a year to insure. This was fairly reasonable. I also hear stories about the American insurance companies really clamping down on the muscle cars around this time. Anyone recall what their insurance rates were? Might explain a low number of cars sold south of the border in relation to Canadian sales.

[copo9566aa]

Joe
I agree with your estimation "Theory"
This is too much strange more Canadian VS USA COPO Chevelles have surfaced.
And on this Page (http://www.copo.com/L72-VIN-Chevelle.htm) USA COPO Chevelle is on top of the list(By VIN) and Canadian COPO
is on the end of the list(BY VIN).Strange Strange.
*99 Yenko Chevelle
101 Chevelle COPO.Look cool...100/100. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[andyww]

In the book Chevelle and El Camino ID Model Codes, published by the National Chevelle Owners Association, suggests 323 COPO Chevelles built based on the number of SS optioned bodies and number of engines built. See attachment.

As for insurance, can't remember how much the insurance was when I bought my COPO Chevelle in 1972 but I did find a certificate indicating a 10% surcharge on it.

Andy

The attachment didn't work. Here is a link to the page Chevelle numbers (http://www.telusplanet.net/public/andyww/Wallpaper/1969COPO.jpg)

[Stefano]

Andy,
Wasn't that one of the Groups which was still stating back in 1988-1989 that COPO L72 Chevelles were never factory built /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif

[andyww]

Stefano, The book I have was published in August of 1989 and it says the COPOs were factory built. So that may have been another group.

Andy

[Mr70]

Andys right.
I was an NCOA member back in 1983,and Mark Meekins was always writing articles about the COPO's back then.As early as 1984,he featured Don Stowers,as well as a few more from here.It was through that club that I learned about the COPO's,Yenko's and even ZL-1's.I love reading alll those old issues today. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Don_Lightfoot]

This has turned into a very interesting discussion which, from the sounds of it, has come up in here before and may continue. Thank you for all the insights which I will have to absorb in order to come up with some number(s) for my resource page.

I'm still hoping to get a response to "Which plants produced COPO Chevelles?"

[Belair62]

I know Fremont California plant and Baltimore...any others ?

[Keith Tedford]

Back in about 1987 Mark Meekins did an article on Raymond Hurst's COPO Chevelle in his NCOA magazine. It sounded like these cars were new news to Mark. I think he knew about the Yenko cars but not the straight COPO units. Apparently the dealer that sold this car new also sold a ZL1 Camaro and three more COPO Chevelles. This was probably somewhere in the Campton, Kentucky area. Any ideas what dealer this might have been?
In March 1988 MuscleCars magazine, Jim Koscs did an article on Grady Burch's COPO 9566AA Chevelle. In this article he mentions a figure of about 120 COPO Chevelles being built. Apparently there were at least a couple of COPO Chevelles sold new in the Cleveland area. More food for thought. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[andyww]

Just checked the COPO Connection, it lists ZL-1 Camaro #57 as being sold at Brewers in Kentucky. No city name mentioned.

Andy

[Keith Tedford]

And where was/is Brewers Chevrolet? Good guess....Campton, Kentucky where Raymond Hurst lived. A person might just assume that the 4 COPO Chevelles were sold here also. Thanks for the clue Andy.

[Keith Tedford]

Has anyone checked with Brewers Chevrolet, in Campton, Kentucky, regarding the COPO cars that they may have sold?