69 Nova Big Blocks

[Yenkobigblocks]

Where are all the 69 Nova Big Blocks located across the States, and who owns them? I am curious.

[JChlupsa]

I I know for sure still in Freeport Ill and was bought from Lou Bachrot Chevy in Freeport. Stored and only gets driven now and then when the owner isnt in Hawaii.

[Yenkobigblocks]

sorry, I meant Yenko Nova's. I think there are only 6 left.

[Yenkobigblocks]

I know kevin hand has a yenko nova and gary but where are the rest of them.

[Chevy454]

Hey Keith! Did you forget about ours?! I think dad mentioned the other day he knew of 9(?). That number may not be exact, but it is close...I will ask him in the morning.

[JTH74]

These are the ones that I have seen or read about:
1.Garnet Red-Kevin Suydam
2.Garnet Red-Gary Holub
3.Fathom Green-ex Randy Miller car
4.Fathom Green-Cliff Ernest
5.Rallye Green-Kevin Hand
6.Rallye Grenn-Reggie Jackson
7.?
8.?
9.?

[COPO PETE]

#3 car (x miller car) is tucked away in Canada, about 2 hours from my house.
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I know of 8 '69 Yenko Novas. The ones you have listed are correct, the one in Canada belongs to a guy named Danny. There are two Lemans Blue cars found, the Clary's have one, the other one is in the Pittsburgh area, is a non-converted car, and belongs to a guy named Rob.

I do not know of a 9th car, I know Ed has a Daytona Yellow one listed on his site, but I don't know anything about it. We have done a lot of title searches for them, and know of several that were stolen, one that was recovered stripped, one that probably became a racecar, the stories go on... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[REDZ]

FYI...Reggie recently sold his Nova and his '67.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Dick;
Do you know where it went?

I didn't know he sold the Yenko Nova! Did you ever get Vince to tell you where that Rallye Green Nova was sold out of? Was it Colonial in Norfolk?
Thx,

[sYc]

Reggie's Nova (and Butternut 1967 Camaro) now reside in Missouri. As per number 9, the jury is still out on that one, but the facts seem to be pointing in the direction of being real. Always thought to be a 396 Yenko Nova, some new information has surfaced which indicates it may have been a 427 car. Whatever the case, it is a very unusual and neat car.

As per our Nova, we have begun work on it and hope to have it completed by the 2003 reunion. It is your standard Yenko Nova, SS 396 converted to 427, 4 speed w/bench seat, rubber mat, 4:10, Lemans Blue. Even though in need of a total restoration, thankfully the car retained all of its original sheet metal and trim, so it was not hard to tell how the car was equipped. When completed, it will be much the way it was when new in 1969. Documentation includes notes of interest from former owners, Vince and most important, verification from the NICB as being a Yenko/Canonsburg car. Ship date was early January. It was sold new by Van Chevrolet in Mission,KS and was in the KC area its whole life. For years the rumor mill was that it was the first Nova converted, but ?

[Stefano]

Pete,
I thought one of the members, Kevin Hand was the custodian of Randy Miller's Former Rallye Green Nova?

[Chevy454]

Pete's right...it's a FATHOM green car that resides with a Canuck. I think Miller owned both at one time.

[SuperCars]

From a discussion we had, I'm guessing Yenkobigblocks Keith himself is the proud new owner of Reggie's Nova and 67. Congrats if it was you Keith!

[mc25t190]

randy miller had a fathom green one that went to canada, i own his former rallye green car. the last time this came up ther were 9 i had accounted for.
7) tom clary blue
8) yenko bart blue
9) rob richardsons lemans blue currently running a small block, i'm told

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hi Kevin;
I understand that YenkoBart has a '69 Yenko Nova, but I have'nt been able to confirm which one it is, the options, trim tag data, etc....

So, Bart, how about some details??

[mc25t190]

i have been informed that there is some mis info on the one in which you are inquiring, and if there is one at all? not meant to be out of line, one would only be proud of such a car!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Kevin;
Pls clarify your post.
Are you referring to the car you listed as number 8 in your prior post? Bart's '69 Yenko Nova - Lemans blue?

I don't know if this exists or not.

[RLS_Jr]

where does brian henderson's nova fit in. just curious
Ron

[sYc]

Ron; You have asked a very interesting question. Up and through the reunion, the concensus was that the car was a very expensive (over $4800.00) Yenko sold, special paint, 396/375 Nova. But, a couple of weeks later, I was visiting with a former employee of Yenko about my Nova, when the subject of Brian's car came up. This person did not know that it had sold or that I knew the car. Much to my surprise. I was told that it was a 427 car. Following this conversation, I contacted Brian to see what, if any additional information he could add. Brian was more surprised then I was. With this new found information, we preceeded to try and document this. A return call was made. Brian's car was delivered as a 396/375 horse car, with special paint and numerous other options, trim, buckets, m-21 and 4:10. Sometime in late 1970, one of Don's employees (and race team mechanic) built and installed an aluminum headed, L-88 427 in the car. The only thing left to figure out is this. The car's list price was $4800.00, very high for a 1969 Nova. With the original paperwork is a credit for $500.25., about the price as was charged for a 396 to 427 engine swap. We are wondering if the car was ordered with the special paint, trim, buckets and a 427. Then for some reason, (money, wanting the car right then, ? ) when the car arrived at Yenko, the owner did not have the conversion done.

[sYc]

Ron; Now to your question. Because of where it was sold(Yenko) and who built/installed the 427(Yenko mechanic), the sYc classifies Brian's car as a 427 Yenko Nova. Not in the same sense as some of the others, which were 427 cars from the get go, but still a supercar. FYI, the list of known 1969 Yenko Novas includes at least one, and maybe two other 396 cars. One was bought with the original 396 intact, but sporting a 3 deuce carb set up. My source for much of this, and other valuable information, told me that many of the Novas in 1969 were "very unusual" in the way Yenko built them. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

Are you saying there are documents showing the building & installation of the 427 AT Yenko, or, just the recollection of an ex mechanic who installed a 427 over a year later at his house? It's a beautiful car, and, it's true, documented heritage deserves to be known.

[sYc]

Mike, even as we speak, research is being done to unravel "the rest of the story". There is still much to learn. But, even though there is not concrete evidence (paperwork) at this time on the 427 swap, I fell very confident in the story. The mechanic who did the work is not just your every day Yenko employee. At one time or another, he was involved in almost all aspects of Yenko Hi-perforance. In fact, he still has quite a bit of information relating to other Yenko Novas, as well as other cars, including most 1967 Yenkos. At this point, the car has been documented in the same manner as several of the Nickey cars, listening to some one who was there. I think you can relate to that. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

Maybe the official announcement should have waited until "the rest of the story " was known. He must have at least stated where & when the coversion to a 427 was made. My point on that was that there is a big difference if it was converted at Yenko vs. being done elsewhere. I have no problem with cars documented by a mechanic who actually worked on the cars, and, can remember a specific car's history. As we've heard so many times on this site, "let's see the documentation" before an official statement is made. I don't have a dog in this fight, and, would love to see more Yenko Novas uncovered, however, I think we have to hold the cars owned by all members to the same high standard of verification before they are given official sYc verification. In my opinion, a written affidavit with the specifics on a car is the least you can expect, and, then maybe we can agree on granting it an asterisk designation.

[copolocater]

I cannot at this time believe this situation is taking place.We just had our car litterally disqualified on this site because Nancy wasn't considered capable of voicing her opinion.I've talked to Warren D. on Brians car and he specificlly told me it was a 396 car not a 427.Is he changing that stance.If he is what changed his mind.He had the documentation.Tom to verify this car by hearsay is unconsionable.I am befudled.you feel comforatable.I feel comforatable at this point in time to say we have what we thought we had.

[sYc]

Mike; A written affidavit is in the works. As per the mechanic, he was employed by Yenko at the time. His duties included running Don's race team. As per an asterick, I guess that means that any converted car that does not have original documentation verifing the engine swap should carry an asterick. That means that most early Yenkos and your beloved Nickey cars will be assigned an *. Tom

[sYc]

Tim; As per Brian's car, Warren told me it was a 427 car. I had no reason to doubt it, as I was not at Yenko in 1969-70. If he decides to go another direction and say it was always a 396 car, then I will not question it. I will list it as such. As per your car, the same thing happened. I had known about the car for a couple of years and had heard no one say it was a DH car. When you quoted Nancy as saying it was, I simply did some more research, including a call to her. She told me on the phone that she did not know whose car it was. Now, the same as I said about Warren, if Nancy, or one of a select few experts whose opinions I value, say they believe it to be a DH car, it will be noted as such by the sYc.

In closing, you, Mike or anyone for that matter, are welcome to your opinions. I AM NOT AN EXPERT! Nor have I ever said that the sYc was the absolute authority when it comes to supercars. I simply have been lucky enough to have come in contact with a lot of very interesting people who were a part of supercar history. These folks are my heros, and I feel blessed that they will take the time to share lives with me, past and present. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

No problem with an asterisk as far as I'm concerned. I still would like to know WHERE it was converted. You keep dancing around that simple question. "Employed by Yenko"? Who cares??
Let me say that Brian's car is a really neat piece no matter what. Let the notorized facts speak for themselves. My objection is to the sYc declaring this car to be a 427 Yenko Nova based on hearsay. Putting the stamp on a car based on what you have disclosed is inappropriate,and, premature. Of course that's just MY opinion. I know you are offended when the subject turns to the monetary aspects of our hobby, but, consider the affect your official edict would have on this one car. From 50 to 250 with the stroke of a key?

I am all for anyone who is fortunate to experience a windfall discovery. I hope it is what you have declared. But since you declared it based on what facts were available, it deserves to be questioned, no matter who you are. If the solid proof usually expected on this site is forthcoming that creates a consensus that this car is truly "a 427 Yenko Nova", not just a Nova sold at Yenko that later had a 427 installed somewhere at sometime, I will apologize until I'm blue in the face.

[copolocater]

Tom if it is Warren who is documenting Brians car.I'm saying wrong.I spoke to Warren and can tell you the documentation he has.I have a phone record of the day the phone call was made.I can even tell you the color Brians car was originally.All from Warren.He spoke of the car and its history in detail.As I stated before I asked the question as to the 427 conversion and his answer was no.He can state if he does that he doesn't know me but he does.I have sent a few people to purchase their original paperwork including Mr. Cliff Ernst.I am not in any way destroying the reputation of Warren but in this case somebodys wrong.The people on this board know my reputation and I am in no means perfect but in this situation I am adamit.

[sYc]

Mike; First of all, I am flattered, but find it hard to believe that my opinion can influence the price of a supercar 5 fold. To me, that is set by the buying public. Sort of like the Douglass cars. Second of all, I do not know where the car was converted. I do know for a fact that the car was sold new at Yenko and have no reason to believe that Warren did not install a 427 in the car, at a later date. Once again, where? I do not know, maybe at his shop, maybe at one of Yenko's shops? Now, to me listing the car as a 427 Yenko Nova. I will tell you, and the rest of the board, what I told Brian, which is how I view the car. If you, or anyone else disagrees, that is fine, I respect your opinion. To me, it is a 427 Yenko Nova, but with a notation, (maybe *) stating that the car was sold new as a L-78, special order paint car. Later is recieved a L-88 427, installed by a Yenko mechanic. No more, no less. As I posted earlier, there is a Nova listed on "the list" that no one has challenged (yet) that came with the original 396, but with 3 deuces. I consider it a supercar as well, with a notation like Brian's. ONCE AGAIN, JUST MY OPINION. Tom

[sYc]

Tim, I have just recieved word from from a friend of yours, who just spoke with Warren. He did indeed install a 427 in the car, at later date. Tom

[copolocater]

Tom you spoke to Warren and Warren told you the transplant was not performed by the Yenko dealership.It was performed by him a couple years later.This vehicle is nothing else but a 396/375 hp. nova.You by your post have led alot of people and others who would read the the post to believe the car was converted at yenko by a yenko employee and charged to the customer by yenko.I'm not here to trash you or Brians car.But you being the administrator and Brian having the reputation he has,people will tend to accept your word.Warren has spoken on this subject and I stand by my previous conversation with him.

[sYc]

As much as I hate to bring it up, this debate could involve a lot of supercars. How many Motion, Nickey or even early Yenko cars were not converted when sold new, but at a later date? Stop and think about that. This was common place back then. I say this, not to defend my position, but to point out that there are a lot of GRAY areas out there when it comes to converted supercars. The good thing is, unless I am buying, the buying public, not me, will determine their value. Tom

[sYc]

BOY!!! What a fool I am. If my opinion is as valuable as everyone has said, I should be charging for it. Like Joel and Vince. And here all this time I have been on the spending side of things, not receiving. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

Tom, I can assume that I am the one you said confirmed with Warren that he installed a 427 in the car. The main crux of the distinction between what we on this site would call an official "427 Yenko Nova" and the car we're discussing is that the 427 was installed "sometime" [late 1970] later, and, NOT at Yenko. That is all I think most want to know, and, that is what Warren said.

When you speak as sYc, people listen, and, take what you say as the official Yenko Sportscar Club position. That carries a lot of weight, and, if it goes against what the commonly accepted position of the membership has been, I feel it appropriate to challange the statement.

Just for the record, if the statement that the syc would list this car as a 427 Yenko Nova had not been printed, I wouldn't have said a word. Semantics yes, but, we've spent countless hours trying to come to agreement on the accuracy of a single word or asterisk. I've said my peace. No hard feelings. [?]

[Unreal]

So if Warren installs a 427 in my car, would it be a Yenko, (with an asterisk)? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[sYc]

No hard feelings. [?] None here. Tom

[Stefano]

Brian's Nova is a very cool, exquisitely executed car. There was a bit of confusion as to what it actually was ,at the reunion. 1)A 427 Yenko Conversion sold new as such, 2)A non (never got) converted L78 Yenko Super Car ,3) An L78 Nova which had a transplant performed sometime after it was sold new.

BTW cool stinger hood. Did Warren install that as well?

I believe the questions posed on this thread are important as to how any car is veiwed by sYc and its membership.(exclusive of monetary judgements).

The non 427, but three deuce conversion Nova sounds like a no questions Super Car to me (bar the value judgement compared to a full 427 conversion).

Its a Yenko Chevy dealership Converted car, to some degree and sold it to the public as such.

Now for a Hypothetical scenario: If a "friend" were to have a Fully documented Nickey Chevrolet Ordered and sold 19701/2 Z28, which had an aftermarket intake, rejetted carb, magneto ignition, 4.56 ring and pinion, electric fuel pump and regulator, lakewood slapper Bars added prior to delivery to the customer, would this be considered a Super Car.

Furthermore: If one of the original Nickey Mechanics were to install an L88 Big Block in it sometime later, would this now be considered a Big Block Nickey Conversion.

In which guise could it be shown at the Reunion as a true Super Car whether small block, big block or even represented as such at all?

I am in no way trying to instigate, just trying to clarify. Thanks to all for the Forum to do so.

[sYc]

Unreal, If documentation shows it as being sold new by Yenko Chevrolet, then by all means it is a Yenko, as is ANY car sold there. Even I can not change that. Tom

[T Billigen]

What engine is actually in the car now?

[sYc]

That is a story in itself. A person came to Brian and told him that he had a Yenko Nova that he was working on and wanted to put back original. He told Brian that it was supposed to be a 396 car, but had some type or another 427 in the car. He went on to say that it did have the right heads and intake. Brian suggested a couple of people to contact to get the correct parts. Later this person returned to have Brian assemble the parts (396) to go in the car. Brian, not knowing that he would some day own the car, or that the 427 taken out of the car might some day have a bearing on the history of the car, did not concern himself with the 427. Even when Brian made the deal, he did not question the owner as to the where abouts of the 427, since he thought he was buying a L-78 Nova. Where is the 427 ? Tom

[Jeff H]

Not to go off the subject, but this makes me wonder about a 69 Camaro that someone from one of our local clubs has. It was apparently a 396/375 car that Reedman Chevrolet put a 454 into and sold as new. He is the original owner of the car so I would think that would make it a SuperCar. Would any dealer swapped big block car be considered a supercar even though it isn't a Yenko, Nickey, Berger, Baldwin/Motion?

[sYc]

Stepano, Yes, I would consider that car a supercar, and could attend the reunion in any guise. Any, yes, a big block conversion car. As per why this car and maybe not another, it is hard to explain. In fact I tried, but could not put it into words. What it boils down to is this. Most of the cars that want to attend the reunion are no brainers, of course they are welcome. The few that fall into that gray area I handle on a one by one basis. And more then once have caught heck over my decision. Each year I hear "why is that car in here, its fake, or its not a supercar, to well, you let so and so's car in". But I realize that is part of the job. I try and be fair, but realize that I will never please everyone. I do have a system, it is just hard to explain.

The sYc works in much the same way. Most cars registered are no brainers. But, there is that percent that falls into that gray area. All I can do is weigh what information that has been made available to me and then offer my opinion.

I know it is not a perfect system, but have yet to come up with something better. Believe me, if I thought that there was a better way, I would change. Remember, I pay $$$ to do this. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Tom

[sYc]

Jeff; If the car is all you say it is, and I have no reason to doubt you, it would be most welcome at the reunion. I would love to meet the original owner, and see the paperwork. Supercar owners who still have their cars are my heros. Tom

[copo9566aa]

Tom
Only Big Block is a Supercar L72 & Zl1
Small Block Deuce is 1/2 Supercar
Corvair 1/4 Supercar
Just look at the 2002 (http://www.yenko.net/reunion/2002reunion.htm) rªunion.Many Camaro on the list
Only two Deuce and two Chevelle. /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif

Just a remark. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Stefano, did your friend buy that Z-28 off of cartraderonline? Sounds like the same car. Gold/white stripes,saddle interior, etc. Sold new at Nickey chevrolet. He had original invoice, etc. Only paperwork he had for any type of conversions were for the headers. Still retained its original drivetrain. LT-1, m-22, 4:10 rear. Owned it for 20 years and bought it off of the original owner. I think it had 21k miles. Out of Aurora,IL. I had an appointment to see it. He was asking $7950 for it, but I offered him 10k. He did get a better offer. I passed. It definitely never had an L-88 in it. If it did, it would be mine. Neat car nonetheless.

[Stefano]

Dave,
I was referring to a hypothetical scenario. I do know the car which you refered to and the headers and alarm system were installed by Nickey Chevrolet after the purchase and no, a big block was never in the engine bay of that car.

Any idea who the new owner is?

[Stefano]

Chicago is a snnall city, I have a fairly good idea where that Nickey Chevrolet sold Z28 Cannaro nnay end up.

[sYc]

I disagree, at least as it applies to the Supercar Reunion. To me, the engine is only part of it. I feel that a car's history is very important. Any musclecar from Nickey, or one of the other "supercar dealers", that has documentation, is special to me. We need to see the car and related paperwork. That is how we learn. Examples, Most Gibb Novas ('68) are 396 cars, special- you bet! an original Gibb sold LS-6 Chevelle, that is special and was featured 2 years ago. This year, 2 small block race cars. Fred Gibb's first race car(Z-28) Lil Hoss and a 1983 IMSA Camaro, Don Yenko's last race car. Both to me, special, a part of history. If it were not for the Yenko Stinger program, the Yenko supercars may not have become a reality. 1. he used the COPO process for the buiding of racecars, 2. had set up a dealer network to sell the cars, but Nader killed the Corvair, thus, everything was in place to market the 1967 Yenko Super Camaro. The Yenko Deuce is special, a continuation of the SYC program. The Vega and Turbo-Z, Don's efforts to not give in. All part of history. To me, that is what the Supercar movement is about, not splitting hairs, but preserving history. That is why I started the Supercar Reunion, to have a place where owners could bring their cars and not be "judged", but instead share it with us. In the five years that I have hosted the reunion, I have seen more supercars, and learned more about them, then most people will do in a life time. And I hope it continues. There is still much to learn and a lot of rare cars still out there, that most of us know nothing about.

If a car's history is not important, then our cars are no longer unique. Tom

[sYc]

Stefano, for discussion purposes only, I have a question for you, and others, if they care to join in. Where does a car sold new at just a regular Chevy dealership, but later taken to Nickey, Yenko, Berger, etc. for an engine swap, fit in? What is it?
And by the way, once Baldwin went out of business, all Motion cars fit into this catagory. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

Well, I purchased a '69 Camaro sold new in Tn. as a Z28. After racing the car as a small block the original owner had it converted to a big block modified production car. In the early '70s, Motion was the king of modified production cars, so, he took the car to New York to get a complete conversion to an all out race car to compete in M/P. The entire conversion was covered in a couple magazines in '74. The car received a tunnel ram, twin dominator "ZLX" motor, Summers Bros axles, dual pick up & dual Holley fuel pumps, complete fiberglass front end, etc., and a Motion type paint job. So what should this car be called? A Motion Performance converted Camaro with tons of paperwork documenting all the work that was done at Motion. It does NOT make this car a '69 Phase III Baldwin Motion Camaro. Of course, it will destroy any Phase III at the strip, but hey, it's a race car. Thanks go to Copolocator.

[Jeff H]

Tom, here's my perspective on a Supercar. 1) a factory built, break the rules by putting in a high performace engine that was not offically available or 2) a dealer built conversion that was ordered as such. I think the cars that received conversions later on in their life are special, but don't represent a true supercar in my view. That's my take on it and I'd like to hear other views as well.

[Stefano]

Tom,
Are you baiting me /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

That would be one cool Day two,Muscle Car with a very interesting history. It would fall in between a regular muscle car and a full blown Super Car and I would be overjoyed to own such a car, based on the sYc definition of a Super Car.

Some Tunner cars are also Super cars and would deserve a special notation. If a car was taken to a tunner for a full conversion(ala Motion Phase III) when no other equivelent car was available for purchase as new, then that also would be a Super Car to me. So this is dependent of the era and what may or may not have been available at the time.

If someone purchased a Nickey, Baldwin, or Yenko regular muscle car such as an L78 1969 Camaro and then had it converted to a 427 after the fact, it would not be a Super Car by definition. My emotions/senses however, would certainly say that it was 100% Super Car.

The Tunners who had a pedigree, Such as Harrell,Motion,Yenko, Berger, Nickey (Mr. Norm's Grand Spualding Dodge and Royal Pontiac would be examples for other marks)should receive some dispensation.

Many of the Super Car dealers also sold just "regular" muscle cars and these are certainly not Super Cars, IMO.

I would think that Tunner Cars have their own niche in the Super Car world.

P.S. This is a generic discussion and not meant to put down anyones particular vehicle.

[sYc]

Stefano, Yeah, maybe a little baiting. I just wanted to be on the giving side for a change. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif And, I like the dance step where you said it would fall between a regular muslcecar and a full blown supercar. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif That is the problem, many of the issues we deal with are not black or white. The Motion car Mike speaks of, and Brian's car, to me are full blown supercars, I would love to own either. But, John Q. Public might see them in a different light, which is OK with me. I just want many of these rare cars as I can to come to a reunion, where we all can enjoy them for what they are. As per worth, I willl leave that to others. Just one year ago I told a person that I felt 85 for a restored '69 Yenko Camaro was at the high end of the market. He now has turned down 120. Go figure.

[Stefano]

Maybe we can hear the rest of the story and how he thinks his car should be categorized directly from the owner, Brian.

As far as the Mentioned 1969 Motion Camaro, that is no doubt, a Motion Perforance built/converted Car. That car, in my opinion is a full on race car designed and purpose built, to dominate a specific class at the drag strip. It is the ultimate culmination of efforts/talents/resourses by Motion Performance for a specific race class.

It would be a real treat to see a car like that at the reunion and it would be difficult for anyone to missunderstand exactly what it is/was if it were to be set up in the same trim ,as when Motion Performance finished with it/or as raced , back in the day, by the owner.

[Jeff H]

It sounds like an awesome car Stefano, but the issue I have with it is based on the fact that it was a car built after the fact. If I bought a 69 Camaro 327 base car, and pulled the 327 the day I brought it home and dropped in an L72 I had ordered when I ordered the car, does that make my car a SuperCar? I ordered it specifically for the purpose of doing an engine swap and racing it. I would say no. Now if I took my car to Motion a year later and had them drop an L72 in it, it now seems to be special. I don't think we can use name association to create a special category. I would call it a Motion modified car, but not a Motion ordered SuperCar. And I don't mean to pick on Motion, I'm just using it as an example. I think we're starting to blur the definition of a factory/dealer SuperCar by saying that a car that has an engine swap performed way down the road is the same thing as a car that was ordered with a 427 from day 1. Again, this is my view of the definition and I would still like to hear how others view it.

[Mr Yenko]

When Brian was looking for a NEW car to replace his AWESOME Yenko Camaro.I said to him you will never replace a car of that caliper. So when he told me of this 69 L-78 nova from Yenko's. I knew it would be an AWESOME car. And without disappointment at the Reunion i see this NOVA that just jumps out and hits you in the TWIG & BERRIES like no other car that i have seen. When he bought the car, it was bought as a L-78 Nova from Yenko's with papers and nothing more then that. But what got my attention was the HIGH price on the papers and the $500.25 credit. How could you get a credit on a special order car. That just didn't make sense to me. So this must be the credit for the 396 for the conversion. But it seems money was running short for the orig. owner and had to put off the swap for maybe a year. But when the owner was now ready for the swap, Yenko's was busy with the Vega program as Brian was telling me last night.So he still had Warren do the swap in another facility. And from what iam hearing NONE of the 69 sYc Nova's were transplanted at Canonsburg. So where did they get done? So far as my opinion this is a 1 of 1 Yenko Nova. Correct if iam wrong. "MOF"

[copolocater]

Brian please come on and tell everybody the history that you know so this issue can be settled .If I in any way I misquoted Warren.I'll apologize again.

[sYc]

I think we're starting to blur the definition of a factory/dealer SuperCar by saying that a car that has an engine swap performed way down the road is the same thing as a car that was ordered with a 427 from day 1.

Jeff; If we go by this, only COPO cars are supercars, as they were the only ones ordered as a 427 cars. The rest were ordered as something else. I know the early Yenko cars, plus I believe several other of the dealer converted cars, were ordered as small block cars. And, how long did they set on the lot before being converted, and where was the conversion done, and who did it? Tom

[AutoInsane]

I think a major point in this discussion is how the car(that is to say any 'super car') is presented. If any of the cars in question were modified by any of the supercar dealerships at time of initial purchase or subsequently thereafter it would seem they belong in the category of supercars. If a car was one of the ones converted after purchase it should be noted in the description of the car. This full disclosure would serve to bolster the authenticity of the history on the car, nothing hidden, no stories. I would see no diference in classifying the two categories. And from there.... caveat emptor

My opinion...any thoughts?

[Jeff H]

Tom, what I'm referring to as an "ordered car" is for example a BM Phase III. A customer would order the car with those options. It didn't matter if Joel ordered a factory L72 COPO or an SS396 car. The later 67 and 68 cars were usually ordered with the L78 so the L72 swap would be straight forward. Yenko would order the L78 with the intentions of putting the L72 in because a customer called and ordered one, correct? That's what I see as a true SuperCar. Then the COPO came along and made it easier. The early 67 cars were SS350's that were ordered and had the L72 transplanted into because the 396 was not available yet. I think the same comparison would work for Mr. Norm's Dodge's and the Royal Pontiac's. A car sold at Mr. Norm's that had an engine swap or super tune done a year or 2 after the purchase isn't the same as a car that was done when it was ordered or came in. I wish we could get some more input to see what other people think. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I don't have a car that fits into either category so I'm just trying to add my point of view.

[Belair62]

I can see it now....a 75 year old ex dealer mechanic slapping in 427's in his garage !!!!! Another day...another SUPERCAR !!!

[bkhpah]

I bought my Nova with the intention of the car being a Yenko SS 375/396 car. No more no less. It is in my own opinion a very nice car with rock solid Yenko ties. I am happy with that, I can tell you. Later I recieve a call from Tom Clary about a conversation he just had with Warren D. Tom asked him about the 427 Nova SC cars. Warren had told him that none of the Novas Tom was asking about were ever done in his presence. The only Nova SS he ever did a 427 conversion on was a special order car sold at Yenko. The car he was refering to was the one I had just bought. I did not even talk to Warren about this untill a few weeks later. I asked him and he told me that he indeed did do the 427 for my Nova. An aluminum head L/88 style engine. He told me about 1970 he was making the transition from Yenko Cheverolet to Saab. He was unhappy with the direction Yenko was going with the proposed Vega program. He was still involved with the Yenko racing program. Warren built and installed the 427 for his friend at his own shop were he was building hi-performance engines as well. The car was a Yenko Nova SS with a 427-L/88 installed by Yenko's top man in about 1970. He said the car was a lot of fun!. So what is the car today? I think it is just what it appears to be, A Nova SS with direct ties to Yenko and all the right people to do that type of work. Is it a Yenko/SC Nova, I don't think so. But it is another example of what was being done in Canonsburg during the late 60's early 70's. I like the car no matter what. It is the only example of this type of car I have ever seen. Living in the Canonsburg area I have never yet owned the textbook Yenko car. It has always had something different. You decide what it is. Tim I ask you this, why were you asking Warren about my Nova to begin with. The car is not yours. I talked to you at the reunion and told you the car was an SS 396. I had the file folder for the car from the begining. The guy I bought the car from had it for years. I did not ask Warren to lie about anything he did to the car. You come across like I am a big liar. You can bash my car all you want, but don't hint that I did something wrong ...BKH

[copolocater]

Spin,spin, spin, spin, spin.You and the administrator of this site tried to pull a fast one on everybody.I talked with Warren about all the paperwork he had and we discussed many cars not only yours.I have talked to Warren on a few occasions to verify cars.I mentioned how nice your car was and he gave me the full history.I'm not putting the screws to you you screwed yourself along with Tom with this BS story.I've watched these post by Tom and he hasn't answered one question honestly.Spin,spin spin into another direction.Ive had it.Verify the car I don't care.Post whatever you like .You and Toms reputation have been tarnished by this.I won't believe anything either of you have to say.Go ahead and hammer me .I'm over it. <font color="blue"> [P.S.] I have just been told I've been too harsh.Let me explain this.Brian I watched the user board all day yesterday and you were on numerous times if this was your feeling that you stand by you should have put a stop to it yesterday you chose not to.Also I've never denigrated your car to anyone I bragged how nice it was.Blame me no blame Tom I wasn't verifying your car as a 427.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I thought this was settled yesterday when two critical facts were verified.
1] The car in question was delivered to the original owner as a 396.
2] The 427 built by Warren was not installed until late 1970, and, was NOT installed or billed by Yenko.

Everything else makes a nice story, and, a neat car, but, as Brian says himself, it is NOT a 427 Yenko/SC.

[Stefano]

Just another Random thought which I have posed prior...Were all the Yenko Sports Cars , Inc. Super Cars listed somewhere in the Companies Corporate minutes. Have the Corporate books for either Yenko Chevrolet, Inc. or Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. been found?

[Mr Yenko]

So Mike we should NOT take the words of a mechanic that worked for a Supercar Dealership of the authenticity of a car from the late 60's as to its heritage? How would you present this car? Would you leave it the way it is or put it back to it's orig. cadilac bronze and L-88\427 that it was intended to have back in 1969. But the orig. owner had fallen short on $$$ to finish it the way he wanted it to be the day he was ordering this one of a kind Nova. So am i wrong saying this is a "ONE OF ONE YENKO NOVA" I challenge someone to show us another car like this no matter what the make and model or manufacture. It is still a transplant car from yenko with a transplant done by the head man from Yenko's. It just was done at a later date. "MOF"

[sYc]

Stefano, Not for sure what you mean by corporate records. Several years ago, Martha Yenko took John Connolly to the old Yenko dealership, where all of the old records and other stuff was stored, and allowed him to remove anything he wanted. Then what was left was thrown into a dumpster. The dumpster is where WD got the folders he has. Since that time, I have purchased much of what John has, including all of the paperwork, plus numerous items used at the Canonsburg dealership, such as lamps, chairs, telephones, time clocks, file cabinet (which once again holds Yenko records), etc. I have several boxes of just paperwork, much is old tax returns, time sheets, memos, etc. Some is useful, much is just "papers". Hope this helps. ADMINISTRATOR /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[hvychev]

Interesting post to say the least.

As a casual observer I have a few questions &amp; statements.

Mr. Clary, If The owner of the car in question himself has said that it is not a real Yenko S/C then why do you still insist that it is?

On another note (This may have nothing to do with the current discussion) Why are Jack Douglas *, @, or &amp; (whatever they are refered to now as.) not refered to as Yenko S/C Camaros? I mean we are going to consider a Cannonsberg Delivered Nova that had an engine swap done about a year after the original delivery date done in an ex-Yenko employes garage a real Yenko super car but not a car that was born a supercar by the GM COPO package, and striped as Yenko cars using an agreement that the two dealers had come to because it was delivered in Hinsdale? (No I can't show anybody the paperwork) /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif Whats the deal???

IMO a car that was delivered NEW with an L72, ZL1, tuned L78, converted LS6, LS7, or a BALDWIN MOTION dealer/tuner combo, etc are real supercars. Ones that are done after the fact even the next day are not. If it is not in the original paperwork as being done or paid for to be done soon after, or can be verified by a trusted party that was on hand at that time it is not! <font color="blue">It has to be done or set up prior to delivery when the car was sold new. </font color> Dont get me wrong they are still awesome, interesting cars but do not fall in the definition of a new dealer built supercar established in my head by what I have learned from this great site. Thoes may be considered "day 2" cars to the extreme with great roots. They may be a Super Car but not a Supercar by definition.

These are just opinions and not ment to down anybodys car. Sorry to rehash the whole Douglas situation. I wish that I had one myself to have this discussion about. I just think we should stick to the original rules and not assign another situation a different punctuation mark.

[sYc]

"Mr. Clary, If The owner of the car in question himself has said that it is not a real Yenko S/C then why do you still insist that it is?"

Following Brian's post, I do not remember me stating that it was a Yenko/SC, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

As per what is a "supercar" how can I make this clear. In this hobby, supercar is a subjective word, meaning different things to different people. I think that is very clear by now. I simply used the word for the reunion I host, to help define what cars I hoped would attend. The supercar reunion is not the only show to use the word supercar, Vettefest, York, to name a few, have "Supercar displays". Their criteria for allowing cars into this reserved area is different then mine. I understand and respect this. Each of us are dealing with different agendas, budget, space (or lack of it), etc. I hope to attend both of these shows some time in the near future, if I have a car that qualifies. If, not, that is fine. It is their show and they make the rules. Because I know how much time, money and effort that goes into putting one of these events on, the last thing I would do would be to criticize them in public. Sort of like what is happening here. If this bickering continues, and people begin taking sides, to the point of boycotting this board and/or reunion (because of me), which in turn causes me to discontinue them. Who loses? All of us, as that would mean one less avenue to showcase/promote our cars. And, if we do not show/promote them, our beloved supercars will go the way of the Model T. Tom

[sixtiesmuscle]

"MOF", where did I say we shouldn't take Warrens word??? He is the one I am quoting. I don't know where this elaborate story you are telling came from, but, it sure makes for an interesting puzzle. Now, I know you think that somehow this "word of a mechanic" has some relevance to the Nickey documentation, but, frankley you don't know what you're talking about. Since I don't know you, and, you certainly know nothing about MY cars, I'd be curious to know who put you up to this.

As I said to Brian at Vettefest about the Douglass controversy, maybe we just need to agree to disagree, and respect each other's positions.Oddly enough, Brian agrees that his car should not be considered a 427 Yenko/SC as stated in his post. From the beginning, I will repeat it one more time, MY only objection was to the declaration by the sYc that the subject Nova was an official 427 Yenko Nova. If I could disclose the number [and names] of the members of this club that have emailed about how ridiculous this whole subject is, you might be shocked. Unfortunately, I somehow have been elected to carry the torch for the opposition.
Frank, what can I say, it is odd that the Yenko purists have chosen to go against their previously expressed opinions regarding what should constitute an official Yenko/SC.

Obviously, it comes down to whose ox is being gored.

Tom, thank you. I will not boycott, and, I will come to the reunion. I promise not to get into any fights.

BTW, I respect everyone's opinion, and, I declare myself out of this thread. For anyone whose been waiting to really slam me, now is the time because I won't respond.

[bkhpah]

Given the hostile direction the post about my car was going, I felt I best take a breath and walk away from saying something I would regret later. I at least think I have done nothing but help this hobby. I have been there from the start. Tom and I talked at lenght about this before most of you ever even knew Tom. We have never missed a reunion and have brought out real and interesting new cars both personal, family owned and customers owned. We have shared volumes of information at every one. The whole memorabilia area was started by Super Car Workshop and has grown into an invaluable asset to the show. We have never ever charged a fee for a Yenko VIN number. We helped start the Supercar Registry area at the new York US 30 show. By all accounts it was a great success. So if you feel that I have a reputation that is less than above board, thats fine by me Tim. As for the Nova it is a car that has an interesting history that is special for it. Tom never compared it to a classic Yenko/SC Nova. It is a Yenko Nova SS with a 427 L/88 done by none other than Warren himself. Tom feels that the car is special because of the people involved in the build up. I think he would feel the same for any other car with this distinction. I do consider Tom a close friend, but not so close he would lie about a car to please me. He never tried to put a price on the car. What it is worth is different to everyone. This would seem to be the bottom line so to speak on the whole topic. Mike you priced out the car in your post. I have been asked to sell the car many times since I bought it. I never priced the car. I happen to like it, it is a tough car. Yenko Nova SS cars are few and far between. All seem to have an interesting past. So does this car. What else needs to be said?...BKH

[hvychev]

Brian

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
Tom never compared it to a classic YenkoS/C Nova

<hr></blockquote>

Tom
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
Ron;Now to your question. Because of where it was sold(Yenko) and who built/installed the 427(Yenko mechanic), the sYc classifies Brian's car as a 427 Yenko Nova. pg.2 pst#1

<hr></blockquote>

Mr Clary I aplogize. Your comment was before Brians post not after. But what is the difference it was stated? I am not trying to start trouble. I TRULY respect you and what you have done for the hobby. Like you said the time, organization and money that you spend in organizing a show like The Supercar Reunion is unimaginable. It is for the better of the hobby to get people together and learn more about these amazing cars. I know I have for sure! I just like other board members want to understand this situation better.

Mr Clary I still want to know how you consider a car with a situation like Brians an official sYc Nova and not the Douglas Cars?

[Jeff H]

Tom, I'm not trying to take anything away from what you have created with the "SupeCar Reunion" but I think the water has gotten cloudy in what should be considered a true supercar. Maybe something that would be useful to you and everyone that visits this site is to set up a thread with a poll to let registered users vote for their definition of a supercar. Like mentioned above and in the Douglass/Yenko thread, we'll all continue to disagree to some extent. I hope nobody takes these as personal attacks, but these discussions can only lead to a better awareness of what was really going on back in the 60's and early 70's. The more information we share the more we all learn.

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
It has to be done or set up prior to delivery when the car was sold new. I still want to know how you consider a car with a situation like Brians an official sYc Nova

<hr></blockquote>

A couple of quick questions for ya, Frank. What do you consider Charley's '80 Motion Camaro? What is Richardson's tri-powered 396 Yenko Nova considered? What is "an official sYc Nova"?

[hvychev]

Rob, You forgot to include the last part of my question in my quote. "..and not the Douglas cars."

Rob also I stated that in no way I wanted to down anybodys car or have people think that I am doing so, but now you are asking me to give my opinions about other members cars. As far as Charlies car it is considered <font color="blue">TO ME </font color> as an awesome day 2 example of a supercar by a noted tuner of the day which makes it very special. I think that this may have been discussed in a prior thread about the differences between a Baldwin Motion delar/tuner combo car, and a Motion Performance car. As far as Richardsons tri powered 396 sYc Nova, <font color="blue">TO ME </font color> if it was either done before new car delivery or at least set up to have been done after the fact prior to new car delivery then it should be considered an official sYc Nova.

I would still love to have my Douglas question answered.

[Stefano]

The sqaure peg doesn't always fit into the round hole!

Charley's '80 Motion Camaro, and other late model Pedigreed, Tunner, Super Cars are unique. His is first and foremost a full phase III conversion (and there was "no" other prudent way to legally obtain such a Super Car, other than to have it Converted afterwards).

Hmmm, the neat car thing is stating to make some sense.

Frank,
On another note;We stopped by you and your Dad's display and the cars are looking fine (Even have a few digital pics for you). Why were you hiding by the Corvette Guys?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif
Man, I skipped the board for a few days of deer hunting, and missed all the fun!
/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[hvychev]

Marlin, I was wondering where you were at! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Stefano, Thank you. I would love to see the digital pics you took of my cars. My digital pics did not turn out that good. Mabye you could e-mail them to me. I was looking for you and could not find you. I went be Tim L and he said that I just missed you. Great show. My last year with the Corvette guys. I love these super car guys now! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

I think that I am on the pay no mind list after my last post.