Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob & Pete;
Is there a place to go on the net to find out the various tips and tricks that have been attempted in order to extract the best ET, MPH and traction from a pure stocker? I have a few theories that I'd like to try, but if someone else has already tested them I'd be interested in their results. I know most guys don't readily share this type of info, but a Deuce is much slower than the BB's so I wouldn't be posing a threat /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[COPO PETE]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif
/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif
I'm sorry, could you repeat the question???????
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ok! I'll be a little more specific /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Does the Pertronix ignition conversion perform better than the points/condenser?

If you put spring clamps on the rear leafs, do you put a clamp at the end of each leaf? Do you put them before the axle, after the axle or both?

Is it better to put strong shocks on the front or worn out ones in order to allow more travel, and therefore more weight transfer? Do worn out shocks on the rear allow for more weight transfer or do they contribute to spring wrap and wheel-hop?

/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[Seattle Sam]

Marlin,

Does the Pertronix ignition conversion perform better than the points/condenser? - Yes, it gives you more reliable spark at high RPM.

If you put spring clamps on the rear leafs, do you put a clamp at the end of each leaf? Do you put them before the axle, after the axle or both? - In front of the axle, it makes the springs act like traction bars. If they are worn, put in some new spring eye bushings while you're at it.

Is it better to put strong shocks on the front or worn out ones in order to allow more travel, and therefore more weight transfer? Do worn out shocks on the rear allow for more weight transfer or do they contribute to spring wrap and wheel-hop? - Soft in the front, stiff in the rear. You want the front to rise up for weight transfer, but you do not want the rear to squat. If the body is squatting down over the rear axle, it is unloading the rear wheels.

Hope that helps!
-Sam

[Chevy454]

M:

The Pertronix is just "ok" in my eyes. Yeah, you don't have to mess with points, but we've had a couple of BOTH versions go out on us. FYI, we ran points up until last year, when I went ahead and went back to Pertronix. I am currently entertaining "other" ignition options, one of which is the new Crane ignition conversion unit, which includes a built in rev limiter (4k-8k).

As for the spring clamps & shocks, Sam hit it right on the head. BUT, I did some testing with a st of 90/10s on the front and couldn't tell a difference than the set of "run of the mill" shocks we had on. Maybe if we were running a decent stall and decent tires, then the 90/10s might be helpful. This might be different on a manual car, but I seriously doubt the little tires will handle much of a shock. Just my thoughts...

Oh, as for your "Pure Stock information exchange", it's slim pickings, except for the Pure Stock board and here. So, how about those "theories"?

[COPO PETE]

Marlin, Don't even talk to me if your not running the stock over the counter camshaft! My theory is GM spent millions developing these motors and shafts to run with manifolds, and if you put on headers, they would respond well, but they work well with manifolds. I've had so many guys ask me what shaft I'm running and I tell them. Then were at the track and their car is not doing the number, only to find out they put a "little " bigger one in or the 30/30 shaft. Bigger is not always better! Don't dick with the center line and put some over lap in it as you will lose some very important compression. Shift at 6000 rpm, not 5900 and not 6100 rpm.
I've had good luck with Protronix. Get the old style, as new one has some problems still.
My Nova is stock and unrestored. As in original springs front and rear, with UAP NAPA 50/50 shocks on all corners. I do put two clamps on each side ahead of the spring, mostly to help not spit a driveshaft.
Exhaust is very important. 2 1/2 inch mandrel all the way. My Nova currently has kinky 2 1/4, which is costing me close to 2 tenths.
Put in new body mounts, poly urathane is best. I currently have the original cracked ones in it, gotta change it. Brand new rubber is good also and won't flex much.
Run as close to 11:1 as possible, JE pistons are much better than the TRW I have. Likely only about 10:1 if measured.
In your case, save your original M21 and put in a M20 if your gunna bang on it. That's good for 2 tenths.
If I take my own advice here, I'm sure on E70-14's I can get a 12.80 out of it, maybe even a 12.70. Time will tell. Now get to work!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hmmmm!
Thanks for the tips. I have the Mallory under-cap conversion in my car now, seems ok but I won't know till I run it up in RPM. I have only revved the engine to 5500 so far.

My cam should be ok, I didn't put the exact cam in because I don't like Crane cams so I put an equivelant Comp Cams in. The M20 is a quicker trans, but the COPO Nov's came with the M21 so I really can't be changing that! I have a Gardner system on my car with the krinkle bends, twin resonators etc...

I guess I will just have to tune it the best I can, and run it to get a baseline! I'd be happy if it ran as well as Neal's red deuce, 13.7's in the heat, 13.5's on a cool evening.

[Chevy454]

M:

I hope you have better luck with your cam decision than I did. Against someone's advice, I went with something other than the GM (Crane) cam and it came in way short. I the stood back and watched a GM cam spec right on the money...live an learn!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
I know, I have heard both sides of the Crane Cam story. I never built an engine before the deuce's, so I had to weigh all the stories that I had heard. Neal has had good luck with the Comp's so that's what I went with.

I also used the TRW pistons, 11:1's, because I figured they were the stock ones. If I could do it over again, I'd use JE's after hearing your experiences with the TRW's.

Oh well, I'll wait till spring, and see if I can get it to the track. Doing a little drag racing with the Yenko is the last part of my goal with this project. What good is a Yenko car if it looks pretty, but doesn't run the number /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[COPO PETE]

Neils had good luck with his comp cam???????? When he was running his big block, for two years he kept asking me, "what cam?". I'd tell him, "go to GM and order the real deal. Finally after the Ohio race, he was frustrated and asked again. I gave him the same answer. He tried to get me drunk on Canadian beer to see if I would change my answer. First off, never try and get a Canadian drunk on Canadian beer and try and stay with him drink for drink. He would'nt remember if I told a different answer anyway! The following week he finally put in the GM L78 cam from gm. First pass was 2 tenths and 3 mph quicker than the car ever ran!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif I expect the same difference on his small block!
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I was referring to the Comp cam he has in his red Deuce.

The Comp Cam that Neal had in his '68 BB was a little cam he had put in for the street many years ago, he didn't have a local source of higher octane fuel. He knew it was much smaller than stock, but thought it would work better with the iron mani's. He was indeed happier when he put the L78 cam in, so was the BB /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

I wouldn't try matching you guys beer for beer! You must admit, JJ is awfully funny when he gets a few in him though. Quite animated when he shows you how to shift the 4hitter in the middle of the hotel room, then he burned himself with his cig!

[Salvatore]

Marlin, I am new to the site, but I met you at the Vargo Dragway Reunion 2 years ago. Your car is great. I love the overspray on the cowl panel. In 1971, we put a 1970 LT1 crated motor in my 1969 SS Nova. I bought the motor from chevy, and we took it apart and went over everything and had it balanced and clearanced. It had a stock LT1 intake, and the stock 1970 LT1 chevy cam, I think we set it at 24 and 26!!?? The car had the original 4:10 ring and pinion, and the original re-jetted 780 holley and went 12.56 at 108 mph. I still have the time cards. The stock single point ignition was also good enough. The 780 was from a 1969 Z/28. I changed the M21 trans and put my spare M20 trans. in and immediatly picked up 2 tenths. 90/10 shocks in the front and 50/50 in the back. The stock cam was a bear. Once it hit 3000rpm it pulled to 6500 instantly. I had 7 inch tires in those days 28 inches tall, and open headers. Everything is about the right combination. I bought the car new from Mullin Chevrolet in Ambler Pa. in April of 69. Cloth bench seat 4 speed, no gauges. Dark Blue, lite blue interior. A good guy to help you out on your tune up is a few miles from you. (Pete Suriano) Pete's Automotive Pottstown. (610)326-8322 Good Luck! Sam

[Chevy454]

Now we are getting somewhere! Great info, Sam! What was the Nova's "average" 60 foot time with the 12.56 setup? What exhaust were you running?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Oh my! Do you have ESP or something??
I was just talking about you to a neighbor, and was trying to remember what shop you told me about in Pottstown. I will be needing some machine work done in the near future, small world.

I totally believe you went the 12.xx numbers with that combination, also the 2 tenths from the M20. My buddy Neal and I have compared the slips from an M20 vs. M21, the M20 60 foots better and the M21 does better at each marker after that I think. But the M20 does such a number on the M21 in the first 60 feet, you run out of track before you can catch him.

Hope to make it back to the Vargo show next year. Stop by the shop sometime in Perkasie, behind the daycare on 5th street. My new project is in there, '69 rallye green, L78, 4sp, 3.55 12 bolt, custom interior w/ buckets. It will be at Vargo in a few years /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Salvatore]

Rob, In the old days, I don't remember Maple Grove Dragway with 60 ft. timers back then. I forgot to mention I had Lakewood traction bars. Really the key to everything is the right combination. I had a set of Casler headers, and I made a set of 6 inch collectors and bolted them on. I truly think to this day with a set of 488's I could of put this car in the 11's. The car weighed 3250lbs to run small brute eliminator. Nothing trick, just a real good hone job on the cylinders, and good basic head work.

[Salvatore]

Marlin, Pete is a great guy. Has been around for many years. Has done all my work since 1970. I finally did a real good motor for my Nova about 1974. We used stock LT1 pistons and moved the ring land up and put an 1/8in. ring up top. We put an old engle roller cam, with about 500inch lift, put 88's in the rear and took the back seat out and went 11.58 at 122 down Cecil County. That car was unbelievable. The MPH was high, because I should of had 538's in it. Basically stock pistons,the first guy in this area to use the angle plug heads. I think they were the 292's, bought them from Shaws Speed Shop. Pete did the heads and cut them for the big springs. I have some old pictures of the car at Maple Grove, I have to see if my kid can down load them for me. I live in Souderton, so I am not far at all from Perkasie. None of this is rocket science, just basic! Do you know that guy in Greenlane with the orange Yenko, original paint etc. He bought it in about 1970, coming out of Nam. He told me he paid $2700 for it. It is a very, very nice original car. Says it is original motor. I don't know. Sam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Pete/Rob;
What type of driveshaft safety loop do you guys use, did you have to drill holes in the floor pans?

Also, how did you attach a radiator overflow container?

PXTX;
I'm still mulling over your email, good explanation, thanks for the info.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sam;
Been to Dave's house several times, once with BKH, his orange Yenko camaro is a very nice car. He has several large pic's of him racing it at the grove. Nice car, even has a few options, guages, v/t, and p/s.

[Chevy454]

I'm running an Indian Performance(?) unit, that bolts to the trans mount, but will make the other ones from here on out. I'll try and dig out a picture, as it's a pretty nice setup. If Casey sees this, he improved his, and I know HE has pics. Casey? As for overflow, I just ran a hose to the washer bottle. Pete?

[Salvatore]

Marlin, I talked to him a couple of times at the Wal Mart show. He is a nice guy. Nice car pretty much unrestored. Let me know when you are going to be in Perkasie, I'll stop around. If you are planning on running your car, you may need a blow proof bellhousing at Maple Grove. You have a solid lifter motor. Sam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sam;
Explain that a little more? Are you saying that a solid lifter engine requires a blowproof? If that's the case, I'm SOL - I don't want to change the bell just for a few joy runs!

[Salvatore]

Anytime that I ran my car with solid lifters, I needed a Lakewood bellhousing. Maybe on there Friday nite grudge runs, or if their rules at the Grove changed, you will not need it. I think they are worried about your legs at high revs. Maybe it is time to make this a day 2 car!!!??? Remember NONE of these cars stayed really stock for more than a few weeks. It was almost impossible to keep these cars with the small tires, no traction bars, and no headers for any lenght of time. There was just way to much potential left in them. You could call Maple Grove and ask. A bellhousing is not really hard to do. Sam

[Chevy454]

I don't think a steel bellhousing is required until you get pretty quick. Here's the biggies you need to be concerned with:

- driveshaft loop = 13.99 (NHRA)
- helmet = 13.99 (NHRA)
- roll bar = 11.99 (NHRA) 11.50 (IHRA)
- 16 oz. catch can (NHRA)

I think you're supposed to wear long pants, and there may be some other little stuff I'm missing. Some of you other racers jump in here...

[Casey Marks]

......but I DO believe that a Gobi Beige Deuce is LEGAL at the Pure Stock races ???? No ?????


I may have to with-hold my driveshaft loop retro knowledge until Marlin says he's bringin' the Deuce to the Pure Stocks .................. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

What's the problem ??? A PURE STOCK DEUCE is afraid of a lil 'ole W-31 Oldsmobile ?? We all know Olds' are sissy cars ............ /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Mr70]

And there you are..
Welcome aboard Casey! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[COPO PETE]

Pure stock Deuce might be afraid, but not no Canadian COPO /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif Casey....never kick a sleeping dog!
Peter

[Casey Marks]

Peter - HUSH !!!!

I'm trying to get Marlin to bring out some of his iron. < Even tho it is Gobi Beige ...... > /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hey now! I would never pick on the sissy cars!

I will call the Grove to see what their rules are, still planning on making a spring time run - regardless of Casey's thoughts /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Somebody explain the mechanics of wheel-hop, primarilary the pinion gear riding up on the ring gear. pxtx explained it to me in an email, seems logical, but how do spring clamps prevent wheel-hop and thereby increase traction. Will the spring clamps make the car rise rather than squat?

Sam,
Can't be making my car into a day 2 car! I would like to make it to the pure stock events in OH or MI one of these years.
Still learning,
Thx

[SS427]

Marlin, this is a quote off another BB site and is a general description of wheel hop. Hopefully this gives you a little better understanding.
Rick

"Pinion angle is possibilty. I would shoot for a couple degrees down because once you get on the power, axle wind-up will bring it back to zero. That will be a trial and error process. As far as taking leafs out, I think that will hurt more than help. What's happening is the axle "wraps up" and pulls the spring to the shape of an "S" until it can't twist anymore then violently unwraps. This loading and unloading bounces the tire off the ground. Sofening the spring will make this worse. The Super Stock drag racers in the 60's used things called "spring clamps" which were basically just two pieces of flat stock drilled and tapped and bolted together around the spring leaves to keep them from separating under load effectively stiffening the spring. You might get away with just doing the right rear kind of like preloading a car with an airbag. If you REALLY want to get over your head get a book called "Circle Track Suspension" by Forbes Aird from Motorbooks International. There's more there than you want to know."

[COPO PETE]

Spring clamps work! Period. Two per side.... on the front only..... and it is allowed! Make your own out of 1/4 bar stock.
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Can you install a larger or better pinion snubber to help stop the rotation of the housing? I guess I better start making some spring clamps.

Pete;
I got the photocopy yesterday, thank a major bunch!! Looks like a an el-strippo car, burnished brown to boot! Very cool, thanks.

[Casey Marks]

Now dangit .......

Marlin needs to learn this stuff on his own. He NEEDS to bring his b e i g e Nova out and start from scratch like the rest of us ........

OK - maybe not scratch.........he can run re-pop bias-plys. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Casey;
The SuperCar guys are a friendly bunch, always willing to help a beige brother in need of speed /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

To adjust the pinion angle on a leaf spring car 4 deg wedge plates are used between the axle spring pad and the spring. Not sure if it is legal under pure stock rules.
Spring clamps are good for racing but not for driving on the street.
The early traction bars used a spring clamp on the forward end of the bar. I have a set of 1967 ET bars on my Camaro with the clamps. With these clamps bolted on it rode like a cement mixer. I removed the clamps and bolted rubber blocks in their place. Now they work more like modern traction bars.

[Salvatore]

Marlin, Spring clamps do help. In one of the old magazines I have it shows Dick Harrell using spring clamps on a ZL1 road test. They do work a little better on an automatic car though. You can keep your car pure stock and run it in that capacity. When you are happy with those times, you can bolt on some performance options and see the difference. Bolt on things are easy things to do. Doesn't take away from originality, because you can change it back. Just my opinion. Give me a hollar when you will be up at your garage. Sam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I hear you Sam! I have a set of brand new Doug Thorley headers in the basement, just waiting for their day on the Deuce - and trip to the grove. I also have an old school pair of traction bars on my '69 Nova that might find their way onto the Deuce for the header days at the track. But first, I want to see what the car can do in pure stock form, and traction is the biggest hurdle that I've seen so far on other Deuces.

I'll be at the shop later this month, depending on the temp's. Anything above zero degrees F, and I'm in there!

[Salvatore]

Ok Marlin, Anything I can do just hollar! Maybe we should take a ride up to Petes. We can pick his brain a little. Have fun!!! Sam

[68l30]

Here is a spring clamp on the Dick Harrell Camaro owned by Bill Ogle.....I made a set for my Camaro after talking to Joe at the reunion,they work great.I mounted mine upside down,the traction bar on my car hits the flat bar not the spring.I had some severe "S" bends in my springs.After installing these clamps my springs are now straight,no more windup,and I now launch straighter.I have used the set-up before without the connecting flat bar,but the difference between the two is noticable esp with traction bars.Good luck.

Steve

[Chevy454]

I had never ran spring clamps on our Camaro (don't ask me why!) until this past fall, when I was at a bracket race. I had the clamps and thought I would try them...they dropped an easy tenth off my 60 foot times, and made the car VERY consistent. You want the front leafs as still as possible, and many people even clamp an extra "leaf" or piece of steel to the top of the leaf to stiffen it. It is legal to adjust the pinion angle, but I have yet to do it. Maybe Pete can shed some light on how much it helps.

That spring clamp pictured looks EXACTLY like the clamps I picked up this summer at the local parts store...Mr. Gasket, I think?

Marlin, I won't except "no" for an answer, so I will see you in Martin, Norwalk, and/or Stanton with your Deuce!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
You found that style at the local parts store? That's where I'll go, let me know if you have a part number or a particular way of describing them to the 'Import Fanatics' that work at my local stores.

I won't say 'no' to seeing you guys at Norwalk, but I may run out of time to get the car dialed in - maybe I'll just use that as a test-n-tune, but wouldn't want to be embarassed if my stuff can't run a good number yet. This stuff is all new to me, I'm used to a hydraulic cam, quadrajet, and a/t = just stand on it all the way through the traps /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Casey Marks]

A hydraulic cam, a QJet, and an auto ....... and it's just *Stab-N-Steer*, 'eh ??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

First spring clamps - THEN you guys are gonna start letting him know about Polyglas tire pressures ........ SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sorry Casey, I should have added; 78 el camino 350, low compression, no cam, no tuning! Add to that a sleepy Th350 with shift kit, and an open end 3.08 geared 10 bolt. Plus, 145k miles on the stock suspension. It was a slow ride, but a fun time.

Don't worry, I know who won the battle of the small block in MCR - where was Pete and JJ on that day /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[moparts]

Robs local parts store is pretty special if I do say so myself. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Mr. G. 1293

[Casey Marks]

Marlin,

If it didn't have a camshaft in it - it needed one. We'll work from there.......... /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
Robs local parts store is pretty special if I do say so myself.

Mr. G. 1293

<hr></blockquote>

There you go, M! It's nice having your parts man online!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Thank you gentlemen!

Casey, allow me to rephrase /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif 'The cam was not a hi-performance cam'. I drove it back and forth to college, so I guess it had some kind of broomstick in there, /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif it was a fun car, but it had to go!

[John Brown]

Marlin, I'm sure Copo Pete and Jimmy J. have lots of experience behind the wheel of a 4 gear LT-1 Nova, and would probably be glad to give your b-e-i-g-e car a few shakedown passes. You know, just to make sure its safe and all like that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Casey Marks]

Let's tell Marlin that he needs 25PSI in the rear of the WideOvals .......... and 30 in the front .......... come ON, I CAN'T have an LT-1 Nova spank me ..............

Well - OK, maybe ..... b e i g e is the insert color on my Ford dually .......... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Casey Marks]

Marlin,

With these tires, the trick is to not blow them away coming out hard.

For example: With my W-31, I have a $53 reman'd Dynamic converter that seems like it is about 15" in dia. It lugs the motor enough from a "dig" that it allows the tires enough time to bite before the motor "comes on". I also run a LOT of advance in the distributor. Basically - off-idle, it is at full advance, which also helps the low end.

OK - THAT's it from the Olds Corner !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Marlin's a scardey-cat to race his Deuce ......

Hey Marlin - My W-31 went MID-15's it's first year out. Don't worry 'bout it dooood.

Marlin's still afraid an Olds may beat his lil'ole Nova .... /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hmmmmmm /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

So, what tire pressure do you start with in the rear's and front's? I thought the rears got 15-18, and the fronts got 40 psi??

What about a blocked power valve in the secondary of the Holley's? Is that as beneficial as I'm being told? Before I had my Holley 'concoursed', I had a block in the sec's, and the car would really come-on at about 2500 rpm - but I couldn't keep the tires under it. I later read in the Holley book that this scenario is caused by a lag in the fuel delivery, and although it feels cool, it's not the best way to set up the carb. So, I've not re-installed the block, it's not breaking the tires loose, but it takes longer to get the same seat-of-the-pants power.

I won't know what this thing will do for sure until Spring, then I will have a chance to take it out and test a few things. Even if I don't make it to one of the Pure Stock events, I'll get it to my local track.

So, Casey, I just might pull up next to you in the other lane one of these years /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

You shouldn't have any trouble hazing the tires, so I advise AGAINST running that low of pressure in your rear tires! I would hate to see you put that thing in the ditch this early into it's restored life!

I think the general rule of thumb (on repro bias-plys) is to start around 40 and work up. Our Camaro runs 46psi on all 4 corners, but this is dependant on the car/tires...but it should get you in the neighborhood. Lay a set of black marks and make sure they are each nice and evenly dark all the way across. Adjust the pressure according to what you find.

My first year I tried lowering the rears to ~20psi...I almost took out the Christmas tree and both guardrails/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif!

[RonNova396L34]

Marlin,
I remember a friend who owned a Belvedere(sp) Mopar ran a low air pressure like that in his rear tires with the same almost devastating results! He said it was quite the scary ride down the track. Next time I see my friend Steve (The guy I talked about in the NNN article) I'll ask him if he has any tips for you since he raced Novas for years. Even stuck a 427 in his 70 at one time.
Ron

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm not sure that I understand how the lower rear tire pressure would cause the car to launch 'crooked'?? I thought the tire would 'flatten out' a little bit as it absorbed the initial 'shock' and thereby give a little better launch because you could hit the tires with a higher RPM?? Remember, this is completely new to me!

[Casey Marks]

Similar to Rob....

I run 48 psi in the front, and 44 psi in the rear. I've found that is where I get the most consistent contact patch for the tire in the rear.

If you put in the 32 psi recommended pressure, and do a quick blip in your driveway (OK - I do them in my driveway ......) anyway - - - you'll most likely find that you will see the outside edges of the tread making the darkest contact, and the inside 4 inches or so of the tread will be a simple *wisp* of black. As you air up the tire, the distance of the dark patch should get closer and closer, until you have a nice flat contact patch across the entire tread width of the tire. If you look at a Polyglas, there really is quite a bit of rubber that makes contact - as long as it ALL is making contact. Also, it seems to be fairly agreed upon by the Pure Stock guys that the more *seasoned* tires actually get BETTER traction with use. READ: DO LOTSA BURNOUTS to season them !!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

[Chevy454]

Marlin:

It wasn't that it "launched crooked", but the wheelspin got pretty bad...I pedaled it for a ways down the track, but when I got back into it, mayhem ensued! Luckily I can't leave off the converter anyway, so I was leaving pretty much from an idle, but it still spun it sideways HARD. It was probably a good run to WATCH, but made for a terrible ET/MPH!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I seee....

[Salvatore]

Marlin, A bias tire reacts different than a radial. (obviously) When air pressure is low it causes the bias tire (also Radial) to react like it is flat. You feel like you are getting a flat tire and the car vears all over the road. You need to do a burn out and see how the tire is planting itself. Look at the marks and see if you have a full tire width on the ground. If not, add or subtract air till you like your burn out marks. If the tire pressure is too low you could possibly spin your tire in its rim. It is trial and error, but we have faith in you. Just don't be upset if the car doesn't get out of the mid 14 teens set up like that. I can see day 2 is just around the corner! Ha-Ha Sam

[SmallHurst]

Casey,
It seems that I am chasing you around. Maybe I can keep you from getting in trouble (not). I was needing to talk with you about a driveshaft loop. Can you reply to me here or send me an e-mail. To everyone else, Hi! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[retengw31]

Neat forum..... Good to be back amongst GM people.

Casey's loop works well on my Ramrod, but lots of vibration to the floorboard. One that mounts between the trans mount and the trans is junk, it throws your dive train angle wayy off and reduces the clearance between the driveshaft and the floorboard to the point that we had to cut away the top 180 degrees to clear. At that point it was no better than the H pipe. We snapped a driveshaft first year at PS drags at the top end. Also took out the bellhousing. Scary.

Love this smiley: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I found my Cam Card for the cam that I put in my Yenko. Where can I go to find the spec's for the stock LT1 cam from GM/Crane?

If I list the spec's for both cams, can you guys predict how my Comp Cam will perform compared to the stock Crane?

[Chevy454]

I believe THIS (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=969551&amp;B1=Display+Card) is your card.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Cool,
Thx,
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Original 2182 Cam;

Lift: In; 459 Ex; 485
Dur @ .05: In; 242 Ex; 254
Centerline: 116 (I think)


My Comp Cam;

Lift: In; 510 Ex; 530
Dur @ .05: In; 242 Ex; 250
Centerline: 106


Rob/Pete/Sam;
Is there a big difference in rear wheel hp/tq between these two cams since I'm using the stock manifolds, smog pump, and Gardner Exhaust with resonators?

[Salvatore]

Marlin, That seems to be a pretty high lift cam. Sometimes your rpm's and torque are hindered with a very restrictive exhaust.Your engine can not breathe properly, hence performance is hindered. Too much cam and no headwork can hurt also. Do you have enough vacuum to stop? Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[COPO PETE]

CHEATER /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
Peter

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I have plenty of vacuum, 18 at idle. The only thing I wanted was a lower C/L, to keep some compression into the engine at lower rpm. I agree the extra lift is irrelevant due to the factory manifolds, smog (not cheating!) and factory exhaust with resonators (not cheating!!).

If I could do it over again, I would probably go with the Crane since I really don't drive it that much. And, so Pete wouldn't bust on me some day at the track /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr70]

[ QUOTE ]
CHEATER /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

If that isn't the Pot calling the kettle Black!
Just light hearted ribbing Pete. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Yea!! What he said!
Mr M20 trans and no smog /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

Marlin:

Just curious...is this (http://www.compcams.com/information/search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=12-511-5) your current cam (from Comp)? Check the part number &amp; specs and let me know...

[Salvatore]

Marlin,Marlin,Marlin, Please just GO to day 2. And all your troubles will be gone! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Sam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
That's the one! Part number matches.

Sam;
No day two for me, I'm actually considering putting the original Crane cam in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[COPO PETE]

[ QUOTE ]
Rob;
That's the one! Part number matches.

Sam;
No day two for me, I'm actually considering putting the original Crane cam in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!! BE STILL MY LITTLE HEART!!!!
Peter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

Crane was not the original cam! Chevy was. Try to find an early nos cam, because chevy standardized these cams and I personally don't think they are as good or as accurate as the originals. I have a Crane speck cam in my Z/28, and frankly it just does not have the snap as the early chevy sticks had. I don't know why you would go to all that trouble any how. sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Chevy454]

I can understand the 106 LCA helping with the low compression, but the 106 LSA sounds REALLY tight to me! How does that thing idle, Marlin? Does the advanced LCA make up for the tight LSA? Anyone?

As for the Crane vs. GM discussion, I tend to believe it's the opposite. JJ's "143" (from Crane) was spot-on when they checked it at the Certified Stock tech. And, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Lerum put an NOS GM "143" on a cam doctor and all of it's specs were all over the place, from LSA to lift. Just my opinion though...

Whatever you decide on cams is your business, but I expect to see that thing on the track!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
Not sure what LCA and LSA mean, and how they might relate to each other? My car idles a little high, but I think the secondary throttle plate is hung up a little. I took it off to adjust that, but not sure if I corrected it or not. Other than that, the car idles fine, 18inches of vaccuum at idle so....

The durations of the two cams have not changed, so why would I have a problem with the vaccuum supplied to the brakes? Only the lift is up, and when you check the cam profile the increased lift has minimal effect due to the same duration. Plus, the original manifolds, heat riser and smog stuff stifle any lift advantage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Thoughts? Constructive ones, Pete /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JLerum]

Marlin,

LCA (Lobe Centerline Angle) is a term that tells you how advanced your cam is. If you have a cam that has 114 degree LSA (Lobe Seperation Angle)and you put the LCA at 106 degrees you've advanced you're cam 8 degrees.

This would generate good static compression at low RPM but hurt high RPM cylinder fill. It will close the intake valve approximately 8 degrees sooner. What you get on the bottem end you give up on the top end. Alot of how the cam should be put in depends on your car set up. ex. 4 speed or automatic, 4.10 gears or 3.55, high compression motor or low low compression motor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

JIM

Hope this helps! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Chevy454]

Sorry about that, Marlin! Jim's right on the money with the acronyms:

LSA - Lobe Seperation Angle
LCA - Lobe Centerline Angle

The LSA is the amount of serperation, or overlap, between the intake and exhaust lobe. The "wider" (larger) the number, the less overlap, and the more fuel/air that is trapped in the cylinders at low/mid engine speed, and vice versa. This is ground into the cam, and thus, can't be changed. This also has a great effect on idle, and anything under 112 will generally have a pretty good lope to it (that's why I questioned the 106 LSA of the Comp unit). I believe the LSA of the 143 cam is 114, and I think the original LT-1 cam is the same (114). The LSA is independant of the LCA.

LCA is the centerline of the intake lobe, and like Jim said above, tells you how much your cam is advanced/retarded. This is changed by degreeing your cam to whenever you want it to come in. I believe most of the older/original cams were ground advanced (the 143 cam was ground with 6 degrees advance!), which is fine on the stickies, but is hard to handle if you are running on the skinnies!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Thanks Rob/Jim;
I think I have a little better understanding of the LSA and LCA. When I installed this cam I was looking for better driveability, not for Certified Stock!

I think the stock LT1 cam is 116 degrees of LSA. Is it possible to have the LSA and LCA both at 106? It doesn't seem possible to me, but my cam card doesn't show LCA, it only says 'these specs are for cam installed at 106 intake center line'.

The idle seems fine to me, but I would have to be standing next to a 182 cam'd LT1 to really notice any difference.

So, does the 106 LSA give me more bottom end? Does that limit the upper rpm range?

[Chevy454]

Ok, Marlin, I just got off the phone with both Crane and Comp Cams, and here is what I found out:

Crane Blueprint Cam (1970-1 LT-1):
Part# - 969551
Grind# - 3972182
Gross lift (int./ex.) - .459"/.485"
Duration (@ .050", int./ex.) - 242/254
LSA - 116
LCA - 110
Notes - 1 (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=969551&amp;B1=Display+Card) , 2 (http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/chevy21.htm#6. Blueprint)

Comp Cam (your current cam):
Part# - 12-511-5
Grind# - CS 272 TLS-6
Gross lift (int./ex.) - .510"/.530"
Duration (@ .050", int./ex.) - 242/250
LSA - 106
LCA - 106
Notes - 1 (http://www.compcams.com/information/search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=12-511-5) , 2 (http://www.compcams.com/catalog/070_071.html)

Now, some observations. What jumps out at me first, and what I questioned above, was the LSA difference between the 2 cams. The original cam had an LSA of 116, which should have a little "lope" to the idle, yet still have plenty of vacuum. Your current cam, on the other hand, has an LSA of 106...this is extrememly tight, even for a race cam! The Comp unit should provide a VERY lopey idle, and would be poor in the vacuum department. I asked both Comp and Crane about that 106 LSA, and they both said "no way" for a street car, and that with that tight of an LSA that you would have little or no vacuum and it would be a dog on the low end. But, what confuses me is that you said the idle is fine and you have plenty of vacuum? The Comp unit is clearly directed at top end, which would be fine if you are looking to race on the skinnies, but it's not necessarily what you were after. The LCA of the Comp unit is advanced 4 degrees ahead of the original, which would help with the bottom end, and all of the other "minute" differences (lift, duration, LCA) would have small effects, but the difference in LSA is what has me confused...am I missing something here fellas? Oh, just curious...did you assemble the engine and put the cam in yourself? Not criticizing, just curious!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Wow! Now that's some analysis, special thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess the LCA and LSA can be the same at 106. Not sure on the idle or the vaccuum problem though, the car has good brakes even with repeated stops at quick intervals. I don't normally check vaccuum, but I did with mine because I was using it to set the mixture screws (?). I had a steady 18+ inches of vaccuum, and idle is a little high but relatively smooth.

As for being a dog on the low end, I can't really tell because this is the only deuce I have driven - and quite frankly is the fastest car I have ever owned. So, I don't know that I can compare it to anything else. I think the low end is pretty good, but then again it doesn't take much to blow the whitewalls off!

I did assemble the engine myself, basically because I wanted to do everything that I possibly could. I installed the cam per the mfg instructions, ie; straight up. I had read that the Comp cams have 5 degrees of advance 'ground in'? It didn't mean much to me at the time, all I was checking for was PTVC - which turned out fine at well over 100 thous./in. Might I have missed something during the installation?

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback, the possibility of me putting in the 182 is increasing.

[Salvatore]

Marlin, The valve adjustment determines some low end power and different vacuum. It also can be a smoother or rougher idle with different settings. You are probably getting yourself a little confused with all these numbers. This is why I asked you a week or so ago if you had any vacuum. Cam duration determines vacuum. It depends on how long the cam stays open. You are so close to Pete. He is expecting to see you and your car.Just go over or call and ask him. Good luck! Sam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
I've been thinking about this, but not totally sure what 'tight' means. Are you referring to the timing of when both valves are open being to little, thereby increasing cylinder pressure?

[Chevy454]

M:

Lobe Seperation Angle is simply a measurement of the angle, formed from the centerlines of the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe, measured in degrees of cam rotation. [FYI, LCA is measured in degrees of crankshaft rotation.]

Just imagine 2 imaginary lines, one extending from the centerline of the intake lobe, the other extending from the centerline of the exhaust lobe. The amount of camshaft rotation (in degrees) that it takes for the centerlines to pass the same specified point is the LSA.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/37323-CAM.jpg

So, a "tight" angle, or smaller LSA (normally 100-112) will have MORE valve overlap, meaning a lopey idle, poor vacuum quality, and the torque peak will move up the rpm range...think "top end" cam. Likewise, a "wider" LSA (112-120) will have less overlap, thus trapping more of the charge in the cylinder at low engine speeds, and will provide a better vacuum signal, and have a tame "lope" to it's idle...think "low or mid range" cam.

But, as Sam eluded to above, their are a few other "variables" provided by the cam that can influence how a cam reacts.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rob;
That's the answer I was looking for! Thanks.
I'm starting to think about trying the car at the track this year with this cam, and sticking a 182 cam over the winter and then run it again next spring.

I was trying to get more low end, off idle power and driveability with the cam change not upper RPM power. With the original manifolds, smog stuff and orig. exhaust with resonators - this engine will have trouble even reaching the upper RPM's!!

Oh well, it's not irreversable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JLerum]

Even though you have an LSA of 106 degree (very tight) you can still off set it by advancing the cam. You are closing the intake valve very early if you still have good vacuum. Also,.........Your ramp speeds on the cam are probably very slow on the opening side as to some what defuse some of the duration. The lift also has a lot to do with duration as the smaller the lobes with the same angles of ramp the smaller overlap.


JIM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Thanks Jim for the additional explanation, I have to think about what you typed for a little bit. I'll probably have some more questions down the road!

I learned something else the other night, don't pick on a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo! Pretty quick little car in it's stock form, has two more gears compared to the Yenko, would have left me in the dust past 4th /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Salvatore]

Marlin, Going to Pottstown tomorrow nite? Big Rod Run and show in town. May be taking Coopers 440-6pack super bee. (Lift off hood car) Should be fun. (215)723-1600 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Sam

[JLerum]

Marlin,

The new cars go fast in a different way that's for sure. With all the over drives they can build a motor a little more differently "smaller cubes" so it can efficently work in a smaller power band using gearing to take care of the weaknesses. The stuff sure does last a long time and fly using the modern fuel systems.

JIM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

I guess what I'm saying in the above thread is that overlap is as big of a component as duration for a rough idle. Ramp speeds will help determine overlap. Sorry for the confussion.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hey Pete;
I was there! So was 'SYCIWISH' and some guys from the Nova board, show was very good and the weather was perfect. I don't remember seeing the 6pak car though (?)

What's Dennis' situation? I've been wondering, send me a PM with an update /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Well, it looks like Friday night might be finally be a track night! Thanks to all who have helped me get the Yenko Deuce tuned a little better - now to put my foot where my mouth is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm hoping for 13's, but as long as I have some fun! I have Pete's setup in the carb, Casey's setup on the timing, just have to pump up the tires and lay down some tracks to figure out the air pressure. I'm hoping for at least two runs, one as a baseline, another with the spring clamps installed to see what impact they have on the 60'.

Any final advice?

[JoeG]

quote:Any final advice ?

Put a beautiful naked woman waiting at the finish line for the winner /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Salvatore]

Keep the engine cool? You can ice the manifold and use your garden sprayer to mist the radiator. Be careful and good luck! Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[NWYENKO]

Probably going to get myself in trouble but here goes!! Why all the time and energy spent on cam stuff when the poor thing is trying to breathe through those restrictive manifolds and that tiny 2" exhaust!! It seems that the carb size was more than adequate but the engineering of the exhaust sucked. Why worry so much about lobe and duration if it can't BREATHE. I understand the desire to keep it stock but seems like it would be more fun to open it up. Marlin, if you get into the 13's with stock manifolds and exhaust on polyglas you are THE MAN!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I was hoping for 14's at the reunion. I decided to cheat and am putting on a 2 1/2 Flowmaster system with headers. (Keeping all the stock stuff) Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif By the way GOOD LUCK and have FUN!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

sc69,
Just started reading this post and was floored when you mentioned Pete's Automotive in Pottstown. He just did the block, heads and crank for my newly found "W" motor (409). He came recommended by a good friend, Ronnie Evans, who runs the '62 Wildfire car. He's the only guy I felt I could trust with my engine. Pete's forte is head work.
Verne.

[sYc]

Above all, HAVE FUN. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

Hi Verne, Have known Pete for 30 years. Did all my motors, rears and transmission. Goes back to the old days. Used to go to the races with him and Ronnie Hildebrandt. The (Mother Nature) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif 1957 chevy 2 door wagon was national record holder in, I believe 1976 or so. (G/MP) We had a lot of fun, used to tow the race car with a hearse. I told Ronnie Evans about using Pete years ago. Good luck with the 09. Hope to see you at maybe the Vargo Reunion. Sam

[Verne_Frantz]

I plan on being there!
See if you can drag Pete along. (I don't think he gets out much) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

I bug him to go with me to most places. He wants to go and then backs out. I complain to his wife Mary about him all the time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Wear a helmet, carry a fire extinguiser, have a trailer on standby, and don't miss any powershifts. Schonye /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[JoeC]

A rev limiter is not a bad idea on 4sp cars. You can get them built in on some electronic conversions like Crane unit. In the old days the stock dia clutchs used to stick to the floor on hi rpm shifts sometimes. The stock Hurst shifters were not too bad but the Muncie shifter was junk for racing. A missed gear or stuck clutch can send a solid lifter engine rpm into stratosphere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Been there, done that.Its really neat when that clutch lets loose and it feels like its coming thru the dash. And muncie shifters usually went in the same garbage can as air pollution pumps, and stock exahaust manifolds. Schonye /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[68z302]

[ QUOTE ]
And muncie shifters usually went in the same garbage can as air pollution pumps, and stock exahaust manifolds. Schonye /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
And now we're paying stupid amounts of cash to get the stuff back!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Rob

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

What a fun night at the dragstrip with the Yenko Deuce!!!!!!!

I didn't get out of work early, but I managed to get there by 6'ish, got through tech just fine, and got right into the staging lanes - first run was around 7:15, Temp was around 84+, RH was 81%, barometer was 29'ish, elevation was something like 2050'.

I didn't have a chance to pump up the tires, so the rears were 28 and 26! No spring clamps installed, and I left the air cleaner on.

I was so concerned with not rolling through the lights, (I never raced with a 4speed before) that I wasn't concentrating on the lights coming down! Needless to say I slept at the tree! I hit the tires at ~~ 2k rpm - way wrong! I smoked the tires for at least the first 20-30 feet - even after peddling it. My 60' was 2.49, 1/4 was 15.03 at 93+mph = bad run, but what a blast! I got right back in line.

The second run was two hours later since someone went off the end of the track at 160+mph when his chute got caught in his wheelie bars. I hit the tires at 1500 rpm this time, which was better - just a little bog, little chirp, then off we went! My 60' was 2.20, 1/4 was 14.6x at 94+ mph - better, but a lot to gain yet. I then got right back into line, if your in by 9:30 you get to run even though they need to stop by 10.

The third run was interesting, when I went to spin the tires to warm them a little, they didn't spin! It just hooked, so I went into the staging beams - it was now 10:20! This time I feathered the clutch off the line at 1500, meanwhile constantly increasing the rpm's. No bog, no chirp - gave me my best 60' at 2.17. I don't know if that is good or not, but it felt a lot better. My 1/4 was 14.5 at 95+ mph, it was nice to end on a high note - albeit, not very high, but a ton of fun.

It's possible that I was shifting too early, I hit the next gear when I thought I was at 6k, even though the shift light didn't come on, I checked my recall and I did hit 6100 at least once - so, maybe I was shifting too early.

I can't make it to the reunion, maybe I can go to the track this Friday night - we'll see. I found out where the air line is, so this time I will play with the air pressures some more.

Fun time, saw Frank Radake's son there for the NMCA event the next day - small world!

[Salvatore]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif Can't really complain about that! At 95 mph you are in the 13's at that rate. Remember it takes more than 1 or 2 nites to get leaving the line correctly. These cars with the tires and leaned out carb didn't do much better than that in the old days. Good job! Sam

[Mr70]

Way To Go Marlin!
Those times seem respectable for your first time out.
Stupid question,but was your Gas tank Completely Full?
I plan to take my Chevelle to the track someday too,so I enjoy hearing about another Pop his Cherry at the Dragstrip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[mmcporter]

Nice runs Marlin. Most importantly, you had fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Chevy454]

Congrats, M! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif I bet the Nova got LOTS of looks! And well deserved looks at that!

So, you jonesin' to go back yet? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[hvychev]

Thats really cool Marlin! It sounds like you are easily headed for the 13's! It took me way more than 3 runs to post a respectable time. Keep trying! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[COPO PETE]

Marlin.... Your 2.1 60' is real good. I was always happy if I could get that with my Nova. It's is very important you shift that car a 6000 rpm. That is the cars sweet spot. Keep the total timing at 38 as any more will just slow it down. Any chance you'll be at the Pure Stock Drags this year??????????
Peter

[MotownMadman]

Marlin,
Years ago I had a BB 69 Nova I pounded the streets with, I had problems with a straight launch, after trying many different cures several things worked well and cured the problem. I fixed the wheel hop by adjusting the pinion angle which worked best between four to six degrees. I managed to get a straight launch by adding a extra leaf to the right side of the rear. That side always squats down farther then the left, I took the idea from a 69 Hemi Charger RT I had owned that came that way from the factory. If you want to retain stock appearence you can get a stonger set of leafs for the right side that look nearly the same as stock, it will make the car ride a bit different during normal operation but makes a world of difference with a good launch. I dont think this is needed running stock polyglass, but if you ever bolt on some weekend traction you could have an extra right spring set and U-bolts ready to go on. Now dont laugh, but a good old set of cable operated cut outs on the exhaust dont hurt either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Another old street trick is to run your windshield washer hoses to the front of your rear inner fender wells and put bleach in the washer bucket. These ideas may not be for a original Deuce as yours, but if you ever build a ground pounder for the street they come in handy. Some might say it is cheating, but I have never seen a rule book for street racing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif The body mounts Pete mentioned is a big plus, also a cable tie down or solid motor mount on the drivers side also helps to put the torque to the rear wheels without losing a lot along the way with twisting and body motions first. The 292 angle plug Chevy heads mentioned work well while maintaining a stock appearance, not only are the plugs angled but they have no heat riser channel which makes for even exhaust flow. I have a set of these heads I may part with. Just buying the gaskets that block the heat riser to the intake will help. While it wont cure the exhaust flow being even, it will keep the air/fuel mixture a cooler temperature which does help. Removing the engine cooling fan and running an electric gives more power as your engine works less not turning the fan. For a street driven car you can set up a quick install electric fan for weekend fun, tie staps and a couple of electrical connections and youre in business. Coiling your fuel line through a coffee can packed with dry ice helps to keep your fuel cool, this makes a noticable difference and is something else that can be set up with a couple of quick connect fittings and some tie staps. Having these nifty tricks ready to install it only takes a few hours to prep a car for drag duty, then a couple of hours back to stock apperance. Just remember, no matter what, it's never fast enough and it can always go faster! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Rowdy Rat]

Marlin,

First time in this particular section of the forum... Interesting information posted here... Have to check in here more often!

I have a lot of data that you might be interested in. I have always been an early LT-1 nut although the ones that I've owned have always been installed in Corvettes, not Novas. Still, there are many similarities between the two so I think that I might have something useful for you.

First off, I agree with Pete... Your current camshaft is overkill and may actually be costing you some power. I've flow tested several sets of "186" castings and can tell you that even with a great three angle valve job, an unported "186" head starts to run out of flow around .450" lift on the intake port and .475" on the exhaust (compare this to the lift figures of .458" and .485"... the engineers knew what they were doing). There is absolutely no need to lift the valve any higher on an unported head... There just isn't any gain in flow to be had through the intake or exhaust ports.

Regarding the camshaft itself, the LT-1 cam has been discontinued for about a year now. Prior to that, Crane made these under license for GM, so what you were actually getting was a Crane camshaft in GM packaging. Regardless, they were absolutely identical to the original. I had two original LT-1 cams (the first removed from a 1970 Corvette at 1,600 miles, the other at 67,000 miles) as well as a new Crane manufactured GM cam checked on a Cam Doctor at Jere Stahl's shop in York, PA. With the exception of some wear related lift reduction on the 67,000 mile cam (as you would expect), there were no differences in the acceleration or lift curves. The exhaust lobe is identical to exhaust on the old "30-30" cam, but the intake is quite a bit different and accelerates off the base circle at a much faster rate (GM was able to do this because of the use of screw in rocker studs)... There is also quite a bit of overlap designed into the camshaft to make it work with the stock exhaust manifolds... There was a considerable amount of engineering work put into the LT-1 engine.

If you send me your new address Marlin, I will be happy to forward copies of the "186" flow data, the camshaft plots/data as well as some tuning/engineering data that was offered up on another forum by Duke Williams and John Hinckley.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Chevy454]

Great info, Stan! You really should stop by more often! If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to check out the LT-1 info you have...I'd gladly reimburse you for your time! And while you're at it, send Pete a copy to get him back into "small block mode". Then, maybe he'll get that silver Nova of his out and go find a certain Green W-31...(hi Casey!)

So, got any of that "hi-tech" info on any big block stuff? Like maybe some flow numbers? Or how about some cam doctor info on the 143 unit?

[JoeC]

One of the Corvette magazines this month did some flow teasting on original Chevy alu head vs modern aftermarket alu head. Big difference in flow numbers.

[Rowdy Rat]

Rob,

I'd be happy to send the information along to you and Pete as well... Just let me know where to send it!

I always got a real kick following the "pure stock" threads over on the Buick board... I didn't realize that similar threads existed here. I will definitely check in here from now on.

As far as "143" information, that's next. I currently have three big block cars that use that camshaft and I'm quite interested in getting some baseline data before proceding any further on the restoration process(es) for those cars. I have to track down a known, original "143" camshaft or two... When I do, I'll run them out to Jere Stahl's shop and have him do his thing. He actually has two different camshaft checking devices... The previously mentioned Cam Doctor as well as one of his own design that is much more precise (overkill for what I want done). In any case, when I eventually get the info back, I'll let you know.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Chevy454]

Stan:

I may have a couple of original "143" cams that came out of running (well!) engines...would you be interested in checking them out?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Stan,
I'll definitely take you up on your offer, and PM you my address. What you said is very interesting, and supports what the others have said.

So, is Crane still offering the blueprinted LT1 cam?

[Salvatore]

Hey Marlin, I bet the Crane cam in my Z/28 is probably the same one they offer for the LT1. What do you think? Standardized Crane spec job. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Sam

[Zedder]

There's a lengthy and informative discussion on the 30/30 cam etc. on the NCRS board under "302 Chevy".

[Chevy454]

Hey, Marlin: Is THIS (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=969551&amp;B1=Display+Card) your card?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Sam: that cam card above is for the Crane blueprinted LT-1 cam, and became GM's replacement (service) cam after the 3849346 (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=967251&amp;B1=Display+Card) cam was discontinued in December of '71 (info via NCRS). So, it was essentially GM who "standardized" the cams before Crane ever came along. But, don't worry, they have PLENTY of different blueprint grinds for everyone!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

That's the '182 cam! That's what is going in over the winter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Salvatore]

Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya? It is a shame that we can't find very early NOS LT1 cams, because they really worked. The GM LT1 short block we installed in 1972 in my 69 nova was a killer. When that cam hit around 2600 rpm's it snapped to 7000 rpm like you had nitros. Chevy does not grind the cams like that any more it seems. Marlin, Those original LT1's and 1970 Yenko's beat many a big block cars. I was there first hand! Horse Power per cubic inch...Nothing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif out performs a SMALL block chevy!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Sam

[Salvatore]

Thanks Rob. The next 302 we build I am going to do a little more research on cams. They seem to be different compared to years ago. I just have to watch how much duration because I want my power brakes to work. Also I don't want to put a 5:13 rear in my car. Like we said before, it is really about the whole combination. Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya?It is a shame that we can't find very early NOS LT1 cams, because they really worked. Chevy does not grind the cams like that any more it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I'm following you, Sam? Crane offers blueprint cams to replace the LT-1 cam (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=969551&amp;B1=Display+Card), 30/30 cam (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=967251&amp;B1=Display+Card) and the Off Road cam (http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/DisplayCatalogCard.asp?PN=969551&amp;B1=Display+Card). ..wasn't their only 1 cam offered in the LT-1? Not trying to get smart, but I must be a page behind! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think it would be safe to say the Crane units are good units, and they are ground identical to the original units. Whether you pick up an NOS cam or a Crane blueprinted unit, they should be the same except for their age. I've been nothing but happy with my "143" from Crane, and I think it would be safe to say that Pete likes his Crane units as well.

[Salvatore]

Rob, I am not unhappy with my Crane Cam. What I am saying that there was a difference in the early years. The spec cams and the new G.M. cams do not seem to have the pull and strength through the rpm range as do the old cams. The snap just doesn't feel like it is there. I have the same engine builder as I did 30 yrs. ago and we all agree. The seat of the pants feeling just don't seem to be the same, with all things being equal. Ask some more old timers, I think they might agree with this. Just my 2 cents. Sam

[Schonyenko2]

Without trying to start any spitting matches, and fully agreeing with Rob on the spec comparison, and being fully qualified as an old timer, I kinda agree with Sam. Englers red deuce is a dead nuts rebuild of an LT/1. Even has Ross pistons, and I don't believe its as fast as my original deuce. Then again maybe its just my oldtimers kickin up. Schonye

[Salvatore]

There was a difference. The only thing is that you probably just had to have been there. The snap doesn't seem to be there. Whatever /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

So, what's the difference? Headers then, manifolds now, or vice versa? Trannys? Got an original LT-1 cam? Would be cool to get an "early LT-1 cam" on a cam doctor see what's up.

[Salvatore]

Wish I had an original cam, or early NOS LT1. I would put it in the short block we are am building now. Headers do help, manifolds are restrictive. Wide ratio trans. also get you out of the hole better. Did any body ever really check a spec cam? Lift and duration, lobe centers, ramp speeds, are they really what they say they are. I never personally checked a spec cam from Crane. I just took there word for it being a 1969 302 spec cam. I am going to pay more attention to what cam we use in this motor. Maybe try a different cam company.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I still have my original cam, is it useful for spec'ing against a new Crane? It's got 99k miles on it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rowdy Rat]

[ QUOTE ]
Would be cool to get an "early LT-1 cam" on a cam doctor see what's up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob &amp; Sam,

Perhaps my first post on this subject was unclear, but this is exactly what I did. Like Sam, I was convinced that there was a difference between the original specification LT-1 camshafts and what Crane was providing to GM. In an effort to prove that theory, I had three cams checked on Jere Stahl's equipement... Cam #1 was an original cam removed from a 1970 LT-1 Corvette at 1,600 miles (I fully intended to use this cam in my own engine). Cam #2 was an original cam removed from a 1970 LT-1 Corvette at 67,000 miles (my own car). Cam #3 was a Crane supplied GM cam purchased a few months before it was discontinued.

After spot checking several intake and exhaust lobes, what I finally ended up proving was that all three were identical (there was some reduced lift on Cam #2, but I attribute this to it having 67,000 miles on it)... There was no difference between the original 1970 LT-1 camshafts and what GM was selling over the counter in 2000-2001.

I would fully expect an original 1971 LT-1 camshaft to be identical to the 1970 version. I would love to check a 1972 LT-1 camshaft though... Just to see if GM carried through the entire LT-1 production run with the same camshaft. My guess is that they did, but I'd still love to prove it just to satisfy my curiosity.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Salvatore]

Hey Stan, I think it would be a good idea to buy a crane spec for your car and sell me the used LT1 stick with 1,600 miles on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Thanks, Sam

[Salvatore]

Put it in, it is probably faster than the crane. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[COPO PETE]

With all due respect fellas...... Rowdya Rat has done his homework. Stock specs are stock specs. I think the seat of your pants has a hole in it!
Peter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm a young-timer, so I'm going with Stan's research and results. Crane it will be, and we'll take it to the track in the spring /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Salvatore]

Good going Marlin! That is the way to put it to rest! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif Sam

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Sam

[/ QUOTE ]


Marlin,
Does this mean that you're going to put those whitewall tires on the shelf too?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nope!! The whitewalls are staying on, so are the Yenko wheels.

I really don't care for the Atlas style wheels on the gobi beige, so my polyglas tires are off the mags and are going on my '69 SS Nova with steel wheels and dogcaps. I just got the rallye green paint matched today for those wheels, anxious to weld, grind and paint something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

Call me slow, but...I still don't see how two identically spec'd cams will run differently? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Does your engine guy have a dyno? That would prove/disprove a lot of this, and is calibrated and repeated, as opposed to the seat of your pants! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I've been on a LOT of passes where I would have swore I was on a low 12 second pass, only to get my time slip and have it say 13 something!

[Salvatore]

Rob, You are not slow. I am just telling you my experiences over the last 33 years. Lift, duration, lobe center are one thing, but ramp speed and how it is degreed is another thing.I am not sure all the spec cams are really to spec. I just feel that the early 302 cams and the LT1 cams are better than the aftermarket (spec) grinds of today. We don't have to agree on this. I am just telling you from my experiences. None of my motors were on the dyno. Maybe cams are like carbs, there are no 2 alike. Just ask Jerry MacNeish, or any Stock, Super Stock guy. I am not really unhappy with my crane cam, I just like the chevy's performance better. Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

Fair enough! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

Its just 50 year old guys like me talking to 28 year old guys like you. Some day you will tell your kids things that can't always be explained. This is a great forum! Keep it up. Thanks, Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[sYc]

Hey guys, do not make up now. Come on, you are half way to beating the record for the most pages of posts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

How about something like, my cam is bigger then yours? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[PxTx]

Hey Sam,

I'm from PA and was wondering who your engine builder of 30 years is and where he's from.

Paul T

[Salvatore]

Hi Paul. I am always ready to put a plug in for my buddy. Pete's Automotive in Pottstown, Pa. Used to run Modified Eliminator with a 1957 chevy wagon called "Mother Nature."Good guy with good prices. Does 409's and all kinds of carb and head work. Used to race against Ken Montgomery in the old days at Maple Grove. (610)326-8322 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[PxTx]

If Pete does 409 work and has been doing things for 30 years, then he'll know Ron Ruth and the "Get Around". Ron past away a few years ago but every time I hear of a 409 I think of my dad's ol' buddy.

Anyways, I live in Glenside about 1/2 mile from Ken M's shop. I'll have to ask my pop about Pete. Just like to keep tabs on some of the older engine builders as they have quite an involvement with some of the greater cars in the area.

Unfortunately for me, my guy- Doug Myers- has been doing mostly roundy-round guys so there are not as many old stories of muscle cars to follow up on.

Cheers to you,

Paul

[Salvatore]

Paul, Doug Myers and Pete are friends. Doug does some machine work for Pete. Pete does all the assembly, heads and carb work, but Doug does his boring and honing. Pete does the 409's for Wooley Bully and also Ronnie (wildfire) Evans.I think he did some work for Vern Frantz, a member of this board. I remember Ron Ruth at Vargo. The car was called Get Around. Ran great mid 60's. Maybe I will see you at the Vargo Dragway Reunion. Nov. 1st I have a 1969 RS-Z/28. Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Sam's comment,some things can't be explained,kinda rings true.When I first got to know Marlin I asked him if Yenko had changed cams in the deuces as they seemed to run better than comparable cars.He said no he did'nt. I'm sure thats true, but I asked because I had a friend with a 70 Z28 LT1 that ran very well, But about 2 carlengths slower than my deuce. He was running a 3.73 to my 4.10, but still seemed like I was putting out more HP.
Seat of the pants is hard to go by these days at 51. Finding my a$$ with either hand sometimes is a good day.
Someday Rob we'll see what a original deuce cam specs out to. I've got the orginal one from Belks orange deuce. Schonye

[Salvatore]

Hey Schonye, Must be the generation gap. I have 4 boys from ages 26 to 17. I am never right with them either. Maybe because they take after my wife! But then again, I met her at the drags. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gifSam

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The Crane blueprint cam is going in! I'm anxious to see what the 'seat of the pants' difference is http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Casey Marks]

** Cheater ** http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Now how is that 'cheatin' http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Casey Marks]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Alright! What are you trying to start here, a race?
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Salvatore]

Fix your heads? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Salvatore]

What cam did you have in it Marlin. I thought you restored it with a blue print cam. Sam

[Casey Marks]

Wha ?

Marlin's got cheater heads TOO ?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

These SBC guys are sure sneaky ..........

[Casey Marks]

[ QUOTE ]
What cam did you have in it Marlin. I thought you restored it with a blue print cam. Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a different blueprint .......... it's a GobiBeigePrint ....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Salvatore]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif )AHHH I just don't know anymore guys! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

If I didn't know better I'd think Casey was over here pickin' fights! His W-31 runs some 12.8s and he becomes a bully!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But, since he's seen the light and joined the L72 fraternity I guess I'll cut him some slack...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Get that Deuce back together, M...Stanton is gonna be here before you know it!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm picking up the heads tonight, no 'cheatin' done to them, just getting them relooked at while I had the engine down for the cam swap.

I originally installed a Comp Cams with a little more lift, and a little less duration, but with a lot less 'overlap' in an effort to increase cylinder pressure and therefore bottom end torque. After learning a little more about cams from Pete, Rob and others, I realized that this cam was not what I really wanted, and that the stock cam is the best. So, I tore it down, and found some other issues to straighten out, (like a little valve cover oil leak, cracked oil sending switch, etc...) but now am in the rebuilding stage.

Anyone want to suggest the easiest way to degree a cam, without buying the whole degree kit?

[Salvatore]

Isn't there cam bottons made? I think they have different degrees in them like 3 degress advanced and so. I would call Crane and ask them what they advise, Maybe put it in straight up. Line the marks up. I would make a call though. Going to see you at Lansdale: (Under The Lights) Same weekend as GM Carlisle. Sat. nite Sam

[JoeG]

Sam is right call crane --it will save you a lot of trial work---

[Casey Marks]

[ QUOTE ]
.....no 'cheatin' done to them, just getting them relooked at while I had the engine down for the cam swap....

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh huh ...... that's what they all say ...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Casey, you must have a guilty conscience.

[Casey Marks]

[ QUOTE ]
Casey, you must have a guilty conscience.

[/ QUOTE ]

They told me if I wore the dress and the high heels, they'd pay me $100. I was young back then, and needed the money.....

....oh wait, you're not talking about that ........ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Mr70]

We told you,we left your money on the Nightstand Casey! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[hvychev]

Just get that car back together Marlin......you have an obligation to meet on Labor Day weekend...if you don't show I will just assume that you forefitted and are scared.....

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm workin on it! The heads are back on, the Crane Blueprint cam is in, lifters and pushrods, along with the timing chain and gears. I hope to have the chain cover on, water pump and the intake installed, and the valves adjusted by the weekend. Then, it's the small stuff!

[Chevy454]

Good to hear, M! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JoeG]

Where did you set the cam--straight up?--And is that cam ground at an advance?----Just curious http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I installed the cam straight up, and I'm not sure if there is any advance ground into it.

The cam card says to set the valves at .020/.025 I/E "HOT". What do you set them at for initial startup in order to reset them when they are 'hot'?

Also, I used the required GM Lubricant #12345501, but it looks really thin!

[Chevy454]

Might not hurt to grab a tube of assembly lube. I even lather it on a new set of rockers and run it for a bit just to be safe.

Moparts is wandering around here somewhere, and he could recommend a brand I'm sure (I *believe* ours is in a black/white tube?)...

[Casey Marks]

I've had good success using ARP Moly Lube for cam break-ins. Because it is more like a paste, it doesn't *drain* off like a lot of the assembly lubes do. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Chevy454]

Just got off the phone with Crane...they said your cam (http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&amp;action=partSpec&amp;partNum ber=969551&amp;lvl=2&amp;prt=5) was ground with between 5-6 advance, as original.

[JoeG]

I just set them a little loose on intial start up, to allow for expansion, then adjust to where recomended when hot--I would start yours at 22/27-----

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Thanks for all the info! I hope to be starting this thing in a week or two, sure hope my lube doesn't drip off http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[Casey Marks]

[ QUOTE ]
..... sure hope my lube doesn't drip off http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Chevy454]

Also, it might not be a bad idea to prime that thing before you start it. You can either buy a "primer", or make one out of an old distributor. And I'd put a heavy coat of assembly lube on everything, run it for a bit,then change the oil.

[Belair62]

Penicillin ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeG]

I think if your date pulls out a tube of Cam Lube ,then I think down the road you are going to need Penicillin-------------

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Boy did this get off course quick http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
How do know about Casey's dates?

[Chevy454]

Oh man, Casey's escapades are famous over at V8Buick! Do a quick search for "Pepe", and you'll get a glimpse into the wonderful world that is Casey Marks!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The only glimpse I want of Casey is in my rear view
mirror http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Casey Marks]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

With those cheater heads, K-Y on your GobiBeige-Print camshaft, and a nice holeshot, you just may ....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

New cam sure idles smooth, reminiscent of a prior conversation http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I have a few bugs to work out, but should be down off the jack stands in a day or two - just in time for the York show!

[Chevy454]

Glad to hear it, M! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Casey Marks]

Cheater.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Jonesin?

[Casey Marks]

Sooooo, you've had a couple of days. Ya got the bugs figured out yet ?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nope! Stuck working very late each night, I'll figure them out some more after the York show. I gotta get it ready for the Factory Stock Race in NJ at the end of the month!

[Casey Marks]

What kinda bugs are you havin' problems with ?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nothing major, just an exhaust leak - stupid repop manifolds http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Casey Marks]

REPOP EXHAUST MANIFOLDS !!

Cheat .... cheat .... cheat ....

Fix those leaks, and get that thing on the ground ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You are obsessed with this 'cheating' syndrome! You must have a guilty conscience indeed http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MikeA]

I don't think Marlin would cheat. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Just put the headers on. You know you want to. Say they came in the trunk from the factory. Mine did. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Schonye

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Very tempting indeed. I have a set of new Doug Thorleys in the basement, nice black ceramic coated, small emblem welded onto one of the tubes..... very tempting, but how can I run pure stock with them http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Casey might notice 'em, then what would he say http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Salvatore]

Doesn't matter Marlin. Put the headers on!!! Casey will say something anyway. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[hvychev]

Hey M we made an arrangement! Not till after the reunion! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Casey Marks]

Marlin,

Do you got your leaks fixed yet ? Git movin' boy ....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

P.S. - DON'T use that Indian Adventures driveshaft loop without making the change to it so that it doesn't sandwich between your trans mount and trans. You need a *Casey Special* driveshaft loop. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Casey's Driveshaft Loop (http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=4826&amp;highlight=loop)

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I trailered the car down to York last night for the show, still has a little exhaust leak though.

I already installed the Indian loop, in prep for the Factory Stock race. We'll talk about the Casey mod's to it!

[Salvatore]

Marlin says he is ready for you midwest guys! None of you guys have a left foot faster than Marlins! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif P.S. He had Grump look at his carb and distributor set up at York http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not to mention, Paul Tholey's dad gave me a bunch of tips and pointers! Bring your wood screws wooderson http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Belair62]

Midwest guys already know the clutch pedal is used for a footrest during gear shifting...

[Salvatore]

The H pattern just to complicated? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The 'R' is for 'Rev' Frankie http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hvychev]

I am starting to get a tad bit nervous here...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif...(that is for the odds makers!)

You know what? I have this feeling that there is going to be some excuse coming from PA on how there car ain't ready, or something is wrong, or I can't make it.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Im going to a test n tune next week so I will get a better gauge on what this thing can do. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Schonyenko2]

The Grump looked at mine too. Then she told me to get my a$$ in the house and eat supper or it was goin to the dog. Schonye

[hvychev]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

I bet you didn't show her this thread!! You and your cars would be in the dog house. You'd be comin East to hang with the real Supercar guys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif