latest Jim M. Chevy records rumor

[JoeC]

He has 68-81 Corvettes nearly done, plans on releasing it first, followed by 63-67, followed by 54-62 Corvettes.
Is it true Jim? Will the Corvette info be released first?

[Belair62]

If so...look for some real good deals on 435 horse cars before it gets published !

[Rat_Pack]

I heard that Alan Colvin is involved with this project? Anyone know if this is true? He would be one of the best to do the research............RatPack..............

When are the Camaro & Chevelle records going to be released? I bet the restampers of trim tags and POP's will hate for this info to get out to the public.............

[JoeC]

When the Pontiac Historical Service started providing documentation it must have weeded out some fake GTOs and Judges.

[Keith Tedford]

It is my understanding that 80% plus of the ram air Pontiacs were proven to be built cars. Z28, SS396 and like models probably will have a big number of clones as well. Body VIN stamping documentation will be a must if you want the big dollar. Even now, it is pretty hard to get a fake past all the guys on this web site. You can fool all of the people some of the time, but, you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Just thought that up. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Stefano]

Keith,
This is one of the few times I will have to respectfully disagree with you. There are more faked Big Block Chevelles, Big Block Camaros, Z28s and 1967 435 HP Corvettes than the real thing. Some are very easy to detect and some will shock everyone if and when those numbers are released. Just my humble opinion.

I do however,agree that the number of Fake COPOs, Chevelles and Camaros will be a much lower percentage, and that we will probably find more of these cars that were not known then cars that we thought real turning out fake.

Bob,
I believe the deals on the Clone Big Block 435/400/390 Vetts will get better after the numbers are made available /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif and that the real deal Vettes will go up in value.

Very interesting to see how it pans out.

[JChlupsa]

so you mean a car like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1873668087

wont get by anyone?
Oh wait a min I dont need the papers it has a Norwood VIN and a LOS trim tag got to love the 69 427 in it though wonder what it came out of a Yenko perhaps /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif

[copo9566aa]

/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif <font color="red"> /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif </font color>

[Keith Tedford]

Stefano, I guess I didn't realize just how big the fake industry is. We are about to find out perhaps. I'm lucky, having bought the one Chevelle new and traced the other back to the original owner through the package you get when you buy a vehicle up here. Having the GM of Canada paperwork helps too. This new info can only ad to the value of the real cars. I'll be looking south for a blue glow in the night sky when the information comes out. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[stingr69]

Any idea when the 69 Camaro records will be available? I will be in line to get my Vette records for sure. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

-Mark.

[Belair62]

Great....Norwood trim and Van Nuys VIN.....what the heck are they thinking.

[SS427]

There are more faked Big Block Chevelles, Big Block Camaros, Z28s and 1967 435 HP Corvettes than the real thing.

Let us not forget the LS-6 Chevelle. I can't wait to see how many times I get to say, "I told you so." /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif Likely 40-50% of these cars are also fake today.

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
He has 68-81 Corvettes nearly done, plans on releasing it first, followed by 63-67, followed by 54-62 Corvettes. I heard that Alan Colvin is involved with this project? Anyone know if this is true?

<hr></blockquote>

Would this possibly be in conjunction with Colvin's new "Corvette by the Numbers" book? Possibly one hand washed the other.

[Stefano]

Keith,
Fakes and fraud have been a problem for a long time and it is much more prevalent than most people want to believe.

I won't mention any names, but recently a seasoned collector went 0 for 3 of his last muscle car purchases. One was a Dodge one was a Ford and one a Chevy. All were documented to a degree and two were restored many years ago, none of the three started life as they were represented and all were purchased from different parties. While this is an extreme situation, the Fakes had to exist in order for him to have made the mistake.

Two of the three had gone from one collection to another over many years and believed to be genuine.

Canadian Muscle cars and Super Cars sell very quickly around here, due to the GM of Canada Documentation.

[Unreal]

As a "cloner" not a "faker" I look forward to Jim's documentation. Maybe that will lift the veil of doubt, when guys like me say they have no intention of defrauding anyone.

[elcamino]

<font color="red">I know of a First Gen Camaro right now sitting in a body shop that is being built as a SS396, he also has 2 parts cars in the back 40. Guy is a body shop owner and long time worker for a defunct GM dealership. He has been hunting the parts etc for several years now. He is very knowledgeable about the GM body codes and tags etc. He was just bragging to me that he was building an SS. He does not care its a clone, he only in it for the money. When I bugged him about it not being a real SS, he says "It will be when I am done". He has built other cars in the past and sold them, one was a phoney 1970 Chevelle SS. The person who bought that one was a former coworker of his and knew it was not an SS but he takes it to all the local cars shows purporting it to be a real SS396.

There are a lot of persons out there that are of the opinion that to be a SS, all you need is the emblems, bucket seats and a floor shifter. Many just don't care one way or the other. I often here someone say, its my car and I can do what I want with it. I don't like the word clone because its often blurred when the car is sold, so the new owner now purports the car as real. Unless the person doing the cloning is putting something permanent on the car that states its a clone. Most if not all won't do that.</font color>

[Unreal]

I'm building a Yenko clone with factory air. That's pretty permanent.

I offered several years ago to develop and maintain a "Clone Registry" on this site. That way current cloners, not intrested in disguise, could register their car. Potential buyers could check the list before laying down big money for a potential purchase. Tom elected not to take me up on my offer.

[82z96ss]

Clones are not just happening to these old cars either. There was a 96 Z28, the guy was selling as a limited edition 96 SS. It did not have the SLP sticker or build number. It did have (from the pictures) SS spoiler, hood and decals. This was on ebay and fetched SS sells price. To the person that didn't know better thought he was getting a real 96 SS when he was getting a clone.

As an owner of a true 96 SS it upset me som'n fierce, cuz it looked just like mine.

CLONING IS WRONG WHETHER HUMAN OR CARS!

But that is another debate.

[Unreal]

Stranger,
Got any art in your house? Are they originals, or prints?
Got any furniture "in the style" of 18th century? Just curious.

[sYc]

Unreal, You are more then welcome to do a "clone" registry, but the sYc will not be involved. One of the main objectives of the sYc is to help seperate the real ones from the rest, not bring them together. If we did, here is what would happen, "For sale, 1972 Yenko Nova, registered with the sYc". No thanks, I have enough to do as it is. Tom

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

BTW, this is a true scenario! There is actually a videotape of a '72 'Yenko' Nova that they would like nothing more than add 'verified by xXx' to it.

I think there are a few members who might actually have this tape, and might have bought the car if they hadn't asked a few questions first /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Unreal]

Tom, I'm pretty sure I already knew I could do a clone registry outside the SYC.

The guys with real cars like to argue that clones are a conduit for some poor unsuspecting buyer to be taken. I was just offering up a way to help minimize that concern.

[JBB]

We have been down this road before, everyone. When going to Volo a while back, after learning a 69 SS350 purchase from a local Illinois dealer was a fraud, there were 9 69 Camaro's there. Z's SS's ect. Ony ONE was what it was supposed to be. I asked one of the Thamm Brothers why the inconsistency, and he told me "Joel, people don't care about numbers, they just want it to look good and go fast."
I think it is safe to say that 95% of the public doesn't care about numbers or authenticity, the other 5% reside here. If the masses spend big $$$ on parts and such, we can only wait for the "book" to come out for the real players............ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[KENNY_PASCOE]

JOEL,
I DO BELIEVE THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO YOUR POST. HOWEVER, I THINK PEOPLE ARE TAKING MUSCLE CAR PURCHASES A LOT MORE SERIOUSLY BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH FRAUD AND DECEPTION TODAY BECAUSE THE VALUES OF THESE CARS HAVE INCREASED APPROX 20-25% OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS.I HAD A GUY COME AND INSPECT A 69 Z-28 I WAS SELLING AND HE SHOWED UP WITH A SPREAD SHEET OF ALL THE PART #'S. HE SPENT 3 HRS INSPECTING THE CAR AND PURCHASED IT AS WELL. HE TOLD ME THE 2 REASONS HE HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR A Z-28 WAS FOR AN INVESTMENT AND TO CURE HIS MID-LIFE CRISIS BEFORE THE PRICES GET WAY OUT OF HAND. JUST MY .02 CENTS. KP /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[x44d80]

Any word from Jim yet on when the records will be released?

[MotownMadman]

If all goes as planned expect release in the fall.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Really?
What is expected?

[Allen]

Anything for the Nova guys?

[JChlupsa]

ab C defghijklm N opqrstuvwxyz guess the Novas might be down the line /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[SS427]

[ QUOTE ]
Really?
What is expected?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can expect to see a bunch of cars suddenly being listed for sale at excellent prices hoping for immediate sales. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Rick

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Probably true, but only back to about '81 or so?

[69L89396]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably true, but only back to about '81 or so?

[/ QUOTE ]

That won't be worth crap! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably true, but only back to about '81 or so?

[/ QUOTE ]
If the records don't go back prior to 1971 then they won't be of much help identifying cars.

[sYc]

The way I understand it, once complete, we should be able to get information, such as original dealer, for '60s cars. I know much of this info exists and was told that it would be made available to GM. I hope I am correct.

[69L89396]

I could see them coming up with the Corvettes but the Camaro, Chevelle and Novas seem to be impossable because of the total amount. Way too many cars built. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Paul_S]

Can somebody give me a little more info/background as to who Jim M. is and what info will be available when? I always wondered what info was available for ALL GM's since the Pontiac Historical Service started releasing info. Will data be released or will it be served on an as asked basis? Will it include everything Chevrolet from Corvair through Caprice up to '74? Is Alan Colvin really involved with this? -Hey, let me know if you need any help. haha

Thanks, Paul -patientaly waiting

[JChlupsa]

If you know of Pontiac Historical Service then you know of Jim M. One and the same and he is trying to get like information dealing with Chevy's as they did with the Pontiac info. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Paul_S]

I know what the PHS does, but never contacted or knew who was involved. Cool, thanks.

Paul

[MotownMadman]

Jim has worked his way through a majority of the records, but still working on and searching for many. This will cover the sixties cars including the Nova's Marlin. Wont be long, be careful what you buy right now as this is prime time for people who have "manufactured" documentation to be selling their cars. It will be nice to have the correct amount of 69 Z camaro's instead of twice as many. I will keep you posted with what is appropiate to discuss.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[budnate]

69-Z's?, It will be nice to see the correct number of all the cars, I have never seen so many RS/SS Camaros in my life, and how about all the 67 427 Vette's,and L-78 Novas, I can hardly wait for all the people with Clones to come to terms with what they own.

Bud.

[Tommy_Mathison]

what will this information consist of? copies of build sheet, window sticker.. etc? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Winmon]

I will bet ALOT of the guys that knownly own clones won't have a clue that this info is even coming. By the time they do , it will to too late, the info will already be in smart buyers hands. I will soon be possibly in the market for a '69 L78 or L34 Camaro. Just wondering now if I should hold off until the info is released. HUmmmmmmmmmm........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Unreal]

The guys building clones will not have a problem. It's the guys building fakes.

[robber6910]

If Jim can stray away from the project for 5 minutes and give us a quick update, that would make everyone happy. Doesn't everyone agree? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[mssl72]

I agree. I've been following this chain and I finally signed up as a member because I had to put my 2 cents in. I'm curious about where Jim has found all this information. I've been told by my GM sources in Detroit that all records by VIN were kept by individual plants prior to 1970. They've also been beating the bushes from the inside for years looking for stuff and have come up empty. Did Jim contact every exsisting plant to see what was left? What about plants that are long gone? Or does the secret GM record "cave" actually exsist (I hope)? This would be a gold mine for guys that have undocumented cars and as everybody has pointed out a dung heap for counterfeiters. In my best Dr. McCoy voice- Jim, I'm a car guy, not a psychic!
Please talk to the masses...just a little...please?

[Stefano]

Speculation: What if the records available were those from Fisher Body, which maintained the Body numbers ,options and a corresponding Vin to the appropriate Vehicle and mfg,via an internal work order.

[robber6910]

Would that "cave" happen to be Iron Mountain? It would be nice if GM and Fisher have all the records stored there. Discovery Channel did a special on Iron Mountain a couple of months ago. They have everything under the sun in there(and then some)!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MotownMadman]

It is really not my place tp distribute any info on this, but I can say that Jim and I are friends and that the records did exist, over the years finding their way to different locations, it has just been a case of beating the bushes and rounding up the cattle so to speak. Patience gentlemen, there is a God, his name is Jim, and it is just a matter of time before the heavens of Chevrolet muscle car history shall rain down the truth as to the origins of worthy GM iron. Have faith and the sins of the false prophets shall be exposed.....
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Allen]

All this teasing and anticipation sure is torture. That poor group is going to be overwhelmed with requests, I'm sure. I'll be in line too, hoping some data sheet exists on my '70 Nova.

I called the original owner of my car today to ask a question.... shame on me for continuing to ask the poor guy about specific options he may or may not have ordered on his brand new car back in '69. He really didn't remember for sure, and probably thinks I'm a nut for being so excited and inquisitive about an old car he used to own.

To him, it was his first new car, and he equipped it with the SS 396 package because that's what his buddies had. Aside from that, he wasn't a gearhead, performance enthusiast, or anything. He didn't even do any work on it, had it for five years, and then traded it for an El Camino.

Interesting differences... it seems like many guys would love to hear about their first musclecar still being around and would like to talk about it. My car's original owner really could care less. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Oh well, I'm rambling. Anyway.....

What is the rough timing for any information to be available? Late this year? Next year? 5 years? What kind of information can be anticipated?

[hvychev]

JIM PLEASE STOP THE TORTURE!!!!! IS THERE RECORDS OR NOT??!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I already have a legit build sheet for my 70 Chevelle SS 454 so I am OK but if I did not I would be going nuts right now. What will these records consist of. I am not sure I understand why it is a secret.

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
Speculation: What if the records available were those from Fisher Body, which maintained the Body numbers ,options and a corresponding Vin to the appropriate Vehicle and mfg,via an internal work order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fisher didn't assign the VIN, Chevy did. So I don't think it would show on Fisher paperwork, esp pre-69.

But how about GMAC paperwork. They financed every car made and the options are listed on it.......

[Stefano]

Kurt,
I don't know that GMAC financed every car made. They did finance a majority and Floor Planned even more for Car dealers (which would be a great source of info. as you mentioned), but not every dealership Floor Planned/s Vehicles. I worked for one of the largest Chevy Dealers of the day and they paid cash for all their inventory.

[Rowdy Rat]

Vehicle shipping records of some sort is my guess...

Chevrolet contracted with a very limited number of shipping agents to move the cars and the original shipping order was similar to the window sticker with regard to the information it contained. I always thought that the transport agents would be a great alternative source of information to what GM originally had... That was always my theory anyway.

Wherever the information was accessed, I'd like to hear what the current status of the project is.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Stefano]

O.K. more speculation; How about info. from the NICB. Once the cars were shipped Motors Insurance Corporation insured them for the dealerships. Vins and some equipment listings are in the NICB data base which was provided for any dealer insured through MIC /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[COPO]

I have only seen original selling dealer and shipping date information available through NICB. Never any option info and not all car's records are in the NICB database. It will be interesting to see what information is Jim finds after years of GM's denial that the info existed.

[SuperNovaSS]

Jim,

I know you are probably out there on the sidelines watching this thread. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all the work you are putting into this. Please make sure you charge a good amount of money for these docs. Afterall, you are doing all the backbreaking work.(It probably is backbreaking, think of how much paper there must be, or maybe your eyes are getting sore if its microfiche.)


Thanks again,


Jason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MotownMadman]

Jason,
That was a nice gesture thanking Jim for his work. He is aware of this thread but is a very busy guy who is focused, one concern is for every question he may answer it will only create a 100 more and it this point even he does not have all the answers. Considering he is the one responsible for the Pontiac documentation it will be likely the Chevy documentation will be similar consisting of build sheet, option codes, originating dealer etc. Have patience gentlemen and lets give him room to breathe, the info is coming, I speak to him on a regular basis so I will keep you updated as to the progress. If all goes well it wont be long, now you know what to tell your wife to get you for Christmas! Jim is a great guy who is putting forth a dedicated effort on this project, all those with genuine cars will be overjoyed at the results.
Thanks,
MotownMadman /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Motown,

I did not in any way mean to incinuate that I wanted Jim to respond. I just felt that with all the questions that had been asked on this thread not many have mentioned all the hard work he must be doing. Everyone needs a pat on the back from time to time. Its funny the way words can be interpreted in threads like this. So, once again I will say, you're doing a great job Jim, take a breather and have a beer!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Jason

[MotownMadman]

Jason,
Amazing how things get crossed up. I was actually paying you a compliment for your sincere thanks. Being one of the greastest Chevy buffs of all Jim completely understands the serious collectors as from this site and their excitement at the idea of all the speculation being laid to rest. I am just as anxious as anyone else, this is like Indiana Jones finding the Lost Ark of The Covenant or the Holy Grail. I have a few cars myself that have been like the who dunnit butler mystery. There are many cars out there that dont fit with the common production practices of the time, many are assembled camp fire stories, while others may be special order one off examples which will change the accepted way of thinking. I was sincerely thanking you Jason for taking the time to say thanks, that is the kind of thing that makes it all worth while for Jim. With Pontiac as an example, this is really not a great profit effort, after expenses and paying rights the profit does not come near the effort. I would think that the primary motivation to Jims actions is knowing he is making a difference in cleaning up this hobby a bit, as well as elevating the pride we all have in our true classics. I thought it was rather classy on your part when you posted your note of thanks. I remember feeling the same excitement a few months before I got my drivers license, and a few months before legal drinking age. It is almost like being a little kid again at Christmas time going nuts waiting to open the presents. Jim just loves the Santa Claus bit, a little to skinny though, but just give it a few more beers.., whoops, I mean years! I know youre grinnin Jim! Plans changed, I will be seeing Al first of the week, but I will see you this weekend at the races.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[scuncio]

I sure hope all this comes to be. What a significant achievement. I think it would be just fascinating to search through the records from Chevy's glory days. I'm sure the feeling of brining these docs to light is plenty rewarding, enough to make up for the huge time investment it requires. Thank you Jim!

[budnate]

Motown,
I have one question, what kind of fee is there going to be to Document a car???


Thnx Bud.

[MotownMadman]

Bud,
I cant say as it is not my project, but if I had to take a stab in the dark I would guess it would be similar to the Pontiac project of $35, but it could be more as it may be a great deal more research. I would not think it would matter much considering the values of the cars in todays market, what would it be worth to document a classic vs always having the speculation that it may not be real? How much more is a documented car worth over one that is not? The fact that the info becomes available will cut the existing numbers of every model by eliminating the counterfeit, so everyone who owns a real car benefits as values go up when the number of existing cars go down. A gold spanish coin was worth 20 times as much prior to Mel Fisher finding the Atocha, so many coins were found they ended up on home shopping club. As supply decreases, demand and value increase, thereby making the documentation of the true cars priceless in the overall market. I have several I will pay whatever it takes to document. Jim and his crew are not out to make money, they are out to make the hobby more legitamite and honest. That is hard to put a value on. I have no way of knowing the cost, I am just standing back and cheering them on. Everyone benefits except the guys building fake cars. It dont get no better than that.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[budnate]

That sounds fair or maybe a great Deal!, I was just a little concerned that it may be like a grand or whereabouts, That may not phase a guy with a 100K car but it sure makes the guy with 20K car Hurt, It sounds like you speak for Jim a little when you say he is not out to charge a arm and a leg but more to get the Info out to all of us?.
Motown thnx for taking the time and keeping us updated, like a few guys have described
I have been anxious to see what he has found, and Hopefully Document all the great cars we have, once and for all!!!

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
I am just standing back and cheering them on

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Motown, thank you for your efforts in keeping us up to date as best you can. It really is appreciated /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Z28DZ]

On page 71 of the June '03 Hemmings is the "Parts Locator" article about "Past History Search" info for your car. The writer seems to indicate on pg. 72 that Chevy USA may have info available ( I called the 800 # and was told no specific info on cars over 10 years old, but they do have the "restoration" info pack available for Camaros, which I have). There is some good info and contact #'s for reference material.

[Winmon]

Check out the latest issue of Muscle Car Review (by Car Craft),spring '03. Great article and editorial on Jim (pg 5 and 70) and the whole project. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[69L89396]

can someone scan it and post it?

[MotownMadman]

I dont yet have the magazine to scan, but this is a photo of the car on the cover, "Worlds Rarest Camaro",makes it easy to spot on the shelf.
Motown
http://www.boomspeed.com/ezmatt/DSC00922.JPG

[JChlupsa]

#

[JChlupsa]

##

[JChlupsa]

###

[JChlupsa]

####

[olredalert]

Madman,

-------I recognize that driveway.Does anyone else?A huge amount of rare parts resides behind that house as well as rare cars.One my favorite guys in the world.........Bill S

[MotownMadman]

Bill,
Sweetheart of a guy, and yes he does have any part you could possibly imagine. If I need something I dont have to look far. Anybody that does need super rare and hard to find Chevy high performance Chevy parts Email, call, or PM me.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO PETE]

Been there 3 or 4 times myself. Where else could you find Nov 68 NOS ZL-1 heads???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Peter

[MotownMadman]

http://stdev.scc.spokane.cc.wa.us/rvasalech/68cv_z28.htm

Here is a link to a web site facts page about the Camaro in the photos Jeff and I posted, makes for some interesting reading under the photo.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[JoeBuck]

Hats off to the JM records search. I find it interesting that there are far more COPO's Z-car's and Yenko's that were ever produced in the market place today than ever. I found the article in Muscle Car Review ( August 12, 2003 )to be very interesting. The article quotes Jim Mattison that GM produced the Yenko 427's via the factory. Did Yenko just badge the cars? Additionally, Jim is saying the 67 car was possibly the only 427 conversion at Yenko. Help. I am searching for a 67 Camaro console with guage pack for my 67 SS L-88 car ( Motor from 69 Corvette ) Thanks much. Newcomer to this site. Joebuck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[dcarr]

This sounds very interesting - just what we've all been waiting for. I joined this board just to participate in this discussion. For all the work involved, I hope that Jim Mattison &amp; company do make a good profit from this endeavor - he/they deserve it.

I've corresponded a few times with Alan Colvin (we both own the same type of car - a 1971 GMC Sprint SP-454). This is exactly the type of thing that Alan would be interestd in (and good at). So it wouldn't surprise me if he is in on it too.

As far as the records go -
One theory I've heard is that the US Government has records on all motor vehicles including the VIN, options installed, color, etc. Auto manufacturers were required to report this data to the government, and the goverment used the data for "law enforcement" purposes among other things.

That sounds plausible. For example, the FBI was able to eventually track down the Oklahoma City bomber based upon the VIN found on the axle housing of the Ryder truck used.

The topic of "fake" cars has always been of interest to me. My expertise is in Chevelles &amp; El Caminos. I always get more than a little miffed when I see a fake car passed off as real. Especially when people pay high prices for a "rare" car and they believe that it is genuine just because it came from some celebrity's collection. I suspect that a very high percentage of the cars in celebrities' collections are fake because most of them purchase their cars at these big auctions (were a lot of fake cars are sold, I believe). For example, last January there was a '72 SS-454 Chevelle convertible up for auction in Scottsdale. The TV commentators stated how the cars in the auction were thoroughly checked out and legitimate. That '72 Chevelle sold for over $35,000. A real one is quite rare and worth that. But I happen to know that the car auctioned had a 350 V8 VIN.

A while back I put together a site with info on how to tell a real '68-'72 SS Chevelle or El Camino from a fake one. I believe my site has the best and most accurate info available on this topic. Of course, once the JM data comes out, it will be the ultimate source.
My Chevelle SS identification site is located at:
http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html

I wonder if the JM data will provide insights on production totals for various cars. For example, wouldn't it be great if we knew how many '69 SS-396 4-speed Chevelle convertibles were built !? Once again, lacking concrete data, I came up with the next best thing. I did a lot of research and estimating on how many of the various '68-'72 Chevelles were built with each of the different engines. Here is the result:
http://www.designscomputed.com/auto_pub/a_body_68_72.html

I'd sure like to have all the GM data to do more automotive publications like the one above !

PS:
Mowtown, If Jim is having difficulty interpreting some of the '71-'72 Chevelle data, I may have a useful clue. After studying Chevrolet's '71-'72 Chevelle &amp; El Camino RPO totals report, I discovered that the GMC Sprint production totals were lumped into the Chevelle production reports.

[MotownMadman]

I have the new Muscle Car Review magazine with the two articles on the documentation project, I dont have a scanner, but if anyone does have a scanner who can post them here I can fax a copy to that person.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SS427]

Jim,
I see you are on line this morning. Chime in and give us the latest update. Thanks for your continued efforts to bring us these records. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif
Rick

[Jim Mattison]

Guys,

The Chevrolet Archives project that my company has been working on is without any doubt the biggest project that we have ever taken on. Over the years, Chevrolet has moved their headquarters not less than five times and their regional offices and manufacturing facilities have changed numerous times too!!! We are finding material all accross the country.......some of it in very unlikely places! Not to mention that some material may have been discarded, over time.

We still have a "lot" of work to do and materials to find! Rome (nor Chevrolet) wasn't built in a day! The interview that is in the current issue of Muscle Car Review (spring 2003)covers this topic very well.

As I said in the interview, a notification will come from Chevy, when the time is right. "More to come!.....Film at eleven!"

Jim Mattison

[Rowdy Rat]

Jim,

Thanks for the update... Your efforts are much appreciated!

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[JoeC]

I was reading an article about one of the guys who writes Corvette restoration books. He said he was given access to restricted areas in GM buildings and found info and pictures on the old Corvettes that he was allowed to use in his books. He also said there was info on other GM products where he found the Corvettes info.

[MotownMadman]

Jim,
Thanks buddy, you know my stress levels, that takes some of the heat off. I will be down Monday to pick up some of the unmentionable parts in your Garage. I may end up going to Georgia with Al, what ya think, good idea? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Unreal]

Matt,
So you are picking up some of Jim's "unmentionables"....kinky.
When my wife picks up my unmentionables, she gets mad at me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif(mine are usually on the bedroom floor, not the garage)

[Mr70]

Jim
Thank you so much for all you are doing right now for this Hobby. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
P.S..Can you make that Film at 10:00?

[68z302]

Johnny Lightning Convertible '68 Z28
I laughed when I first saw it. I had no idea there was one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2418446125&amp;category=67 63
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Winmon]

Technically, there was just one (was specially built for Pete Estes)!

[JLerum]

I would have to say that if their is a way to define real cars from a fake that either the real cars will go up in value or the fakes go down. I think a little of both will happen. Too many people that want the real goods when the price tag goes over $40,000+++. It would be nice to have the real cars represted without doubt. Just my $.02 worth. The real cars need to stand alone and take their rightful place. Thank you Jim for your effort.

JIM LERUM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Motown,
I was referred here from another site because of the discussion regarding the build sheet (potential) availablity for Chevys.
I had to register because this topic is very close to my heart. Specifically, your comment about Jim trying to clean up the hobby really touched a chord I've been playing since '82.
I currently operate a Documentation Service through our local club for '58-'64 Chevrolets (full size). I believe we have the best method available today to document the originality of one of these cars. We did it without any help from Chevy. We did it painstakingly by "interviewing" many original cars (mostly in junk yards, because we found those cars tell no lies.)
If you want to know more about our project and the service we offer, there's a story about it on our club web site: jerseylategreats.com
I hope Jim is successful, for the good of the hobby. In the meantime, I'll keep trying to do what I can for the "good" in the small "passenger car" part of the hobby.
I'm glad I found this site. Please don't view this thread as a solicitation for our service - merely an introduction.
Verne.

[Mr70]

Welcome to this website Stranger...........I mean Verne.
Glad to have you aboard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Belair62]

Well you just answered a question I posed in another thread....these New Jersey folks worked their butts off trying to figure out the tag codes for big Chevies...correct me if I'm wrong but '58 to '64 Verne ? I was in Late Great Chevies for many years until they started combining with a bunch of other clubs.I read about their work many times.If anyone has questions about big Chevy trim tags I would think Verne would be the one to contact. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[MotownMadman]

Verne,
Welcome. I dont think anyone here would view your post as a solicitation, I would think everyone here would agree that the efforts of you and your club is something that should be recognized and congradulated. Personally, in my opinion, solicitation is something trying to be advertised or sold that is really not needed, which in your case is as far from solicitation as possible since your efforts are not only needed but very much welcomed with open arms. Your efforts are no less important then Jims, if his project is successful there will probebly be gaps in relevant information that will be sorted out through the data of many individual and group efforts around the country, such as yours, Camaro Research Group, COPO Connection, Yenko Deuce Registry, and others to name a few. Complete success in cleaning up this hobby will be had when everyone involved comes together with all the relevant data, be it a group or an individual, any amount of information gained through research will undoubtedly help to fill in the pieces of the puzzle. Knowledge is power, the combined knowledge of the members of this board alone has helped a great deal in sorting out the truth, when considering all the other groups such as this board, many that intersect with each other, much of the origins and history to these cars has already been sorted out, add that to the existing successes that Jim has had through Pontiac Historical Services, and the possible success that Jim and his dedicated group may have with Chevrolet and it is only a matter of time before truth will prevail over the fraud in this hobby. So Verne, consider this an open note of thanks to you and your team for the work accomplished on the big Chevys. The total is a sum of the parts, by specializing in one area you have a better chance of nailing down more facts then if your resources were spread too thin. Send me a PM with your phone # and I will give you a call.
Thanks,
Matt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Matt,
Thank you for your kind comments (and Belair62 as well).
'58-'64 Chevrolet Passenger cars were assembled at a total of 18 different assembly plants over those model years (three of which were Fisher Body "only" locations, with no Chevrolet final assembly line attached). I think one of the greatest assets toward the "good" of the hobby is the fact that there was very little uniformity in the cowl tag coding methods used at the different plants. I even have evidence of option codes changing during one model year at the same plant. This inconsistancy makes it harder for someone to know what to have stamped on his "reproduction" cowl tag.
Jim's efforts should yield better results than our project can provide, since he is collecting build sheets. The build sheets contain information on every option, where our information is based on what was stamped on the trim tag. Unfortunately, not all of the options were coded on those tags. In the earlier years, very few were coded. And even in the later years, some plants only coded for one or two. Most plants did not code for the engine. So, Jim's efforts are really targeting the holy grail - undisputed evidence - the car's birth certificate, while our documentation is derived by "deciphering" of cryptic information based on a sample size to be statisically valid. But many build sheets contain those cryptic codes as well, rather than a simple "X" next to the option, or the actual RPO number, so it is possible that a combined effort will produce many more completed verifications of the originality of the Passenger cars. Please let Jim know that I am 100% in favor of combining efforts for the good of the hobby. That has always been my motivation since the beginning of our project.
If Jim needs any help with his "treasure hunt" regarding the Passenger car plants, I am offering my services (donated, of course).

Verne.

[Belair62]

Hey Verne..I have a builsheet out of a 64 Impala SS 327-300 4spd....can you use a copy in your records ? I don't have a trim tag rubbing of it but remember colors etc...

[Verne_Frantz]

Belair,
I would like to add a copy to the files. I appreciate the offer. Thanks very much. Jot down anything you can remember about the car too.

You can mail it to me
c/o Jersey Late Greats, Inc.
P.O. Box 1294
Hightstown, NJ 08520

(I usually pick up the mail anyway)
Verne.

[Belair62]

If you have a fax---PM me with the number Verne...the car had a stroked 409 in it when I sold it and i believe it went east....

[Jonesy]

There is a gal who posted on camaros.net and claims she works for the archive department. She says there are no records. I still want to believe. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Here's the link:

click here (http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=007080;p=1)

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
I still want to believe.



[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda like Santa Claus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Does anyone have any new information on that whole project?

[Chevy454]

Boy, she definitely puts a new spin on it! Rather depressing reading her posts over there...

[COPO PETE]

After many discussions with Jim over the years.... my money is on Jim!
Peter

[x44d80]

A new "spin" for sure but Jim Mattison is a great guy and what he's done speaks for itself. I don't know who she is or what she's done for our sport.

[hvychev]

Very interesting info from Jennifer at GM........I hope it is not true. Why won't Jim just comment on the whole subject? Maybe people will stop asking if it is true.

[COPOL89]

I contacted vtntage vehicle services of canada last week on a vin and the subject came up and they told me that the old Chevrolet records do not exsist if so they would have them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif But i have a lot of faith in Jims project and I feel that he wouldn't be wasting his time if they were none to be had. If anyone knows the Chevy paper trail it would be Jim M. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Jeff H]

There's information somewhere. How do you think some of the big collectors end up with documentation for rare muscle cars that didn't have it when they originally came up for sale? Be patient.

edit: Sorry, I didn't mean to drag names into this so I edited it out.

[Unreal]

Floyd has GM docs on non-Canadian cars?

I have the original sticker off my 85 Fiero GT. Forgot to give it to the purchaser, when I sold it a couple years ago. Theoretically, if/when the Fieros become "Valuable" someone my contact me and get original GM documentation.
Floyd could do the same thing with old Camaros, but I doubt he has any deep connections to get info that Jim can't get.

[last67nova4speedbuilt]

I commend Jim in his quest to bring some sort accountability to this hobby. There is nothing like walking into the garage and looking at some cars, when you know they are what they are supposed to be. I have a 1970 LS5, but when I look at it I still wonder if it is. I got a copy of the buildsheet with it but in today's car world they can be made to represent anything....SOOO...MARCH forward Jim your quest will be enjoyed by many...Thank-you..Ian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SamLBInj]

Hey Jeff, Some3 very nice photos of the 68 convertible Z/28. What are those 4 knobs on the console? also, do you have any more photos of the car? TIA,
Sam

[MotownMadman]

At over 10,000 views, does this thread hold the record for most viewed? That is a lot of people reading, it would be safe to assume this thread has been discussed enough in other locations to have brought many to this site for the first time.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Bob Jenkins]

I enjoyed reading the post, any updates or news? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Bob Jenkins]

[ QUOTE ]
Speculation: What if the records available were those from Fisher Body, which maintained the Body numbers ,options and a corresponding Vin to the appropriate Vehicle and mfg,via an internal work order.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, that would be great..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Bob Jenkins]

taken from CRG - http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml


"Fisher Body - Trim Shop Operations
When the body was released from the Paint Shop and it was sequenced into the delivery conveyor to the Trim Shop, Fisher's computer generated their version of a "Broadcast Copy" for each car, called a "UOIT" (Uniform Option Identification Tag), which identified the color, trim, and options information for the Trim Shop build of that particular car; that document was placed on the car at the transfer station for worker reference."

Is Fisher's computer files is where the data is being complied from? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[elcamino]

There might be shipping records that would contain car information like VIN's with options etc for insurance documentation in transit.

[BEAUMONTBILL]

I've been told that Jim's quest has come to
a screaching hault. It seems that GM wanted to have some additional people get involved with the project and change a
bunch of the things Jim was attempting to do. Jim refused and said if the project was going to go that way he didn't want to be involved anymore. I guess there are some people in Detroit who feel this would look good on there resume.
This info was told to me by a reliable source, anybody else
here anything. Jim..... are you out there? Say it isn't so!

[MotownMadman]

I do not have the specifics, but I do know from the last few times I had spoke with Jim that he was having problems with upper management at the current time. But, not to lose hope, this has happened before. Jim has been gathering info since about 1991 on this project, during that time management has changed over a few times. Some are gung ho and behind him all the way, while others could care less about our hobby and the records. When that happens his project takes a pause, the suits end up being transferred through promotion, demotion, or retirement, and the seats are then filled by other bodies. It takes a new suit who has interest in the cars and the hobby as a whole to give Jim the green light to launch again. At the moment I tend to think the project is on pause, but certainly not finished or without a future. Jim is still what I would consider rather young and very dedicated and deternined as well as in good health, so it is up to all those involved in the hobby to keep the spirit alive and keep behind him with enthusiasim and encouragment, as long as that happens the suits will change and once again the dust will be blown off the project to move forward towards completion. Keep the faith, and Jim, by all means we are behind you on this, I know you arent a quitter so keep your face in the wind and give it hell! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Keith Tedford]

In all of my years at GM, I have found very few people in management who have any interest in our hobby. There have been a few exceptions. Check the www.gmcanada.com (http://www.gmcanada.com) web site to see the 1908 McLaughlin-Buick Model F that Stew Lowe had restored for the company. Harry Sherry did an incredibly in depth restoration, going so far as to have two new engine blocks cast at the GM St. Catherines foundry. Some GM Oshawa tool and die makers were also involved in the process fabricating various pieces. Hopefully there will be a few Stew Lowes' who will come along to help Jim Mattison along. I think that it would be excellent PR for GM and would stir a lot of interest in their products.

[mssl72]

Is there anybody we can write or email to at GM to show them that there are people in support of this project? I'm one person that wants this project to go full steam ahead until it's done.

[Chris396]

I think GM wants me to despise them. I have to say I'm sure not my father who is diehard GM guy. Way to alienate your fanbase GM! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[elcamino]

GM fan base?

How many that own these cars also own a new GM car or truck? Thats all they (GM) care about today. I know one guy who owns a 1969 original Z28 for about 15 yrs but has never purchased any other GM car and says he never will, loves to drive Fords.

So why should GM care about him?

btw
He rarely drives the Z28, 4th of July etc and all he ever talks about is how much its going to be worth in the future.

[Jeff H]

Every manufacturer bases their sales on return customers. They have to. When they lose return customers, they need to find out why. I've been driving newer GM cars/trucks ever since I bought my first 69 Camaro. Chevrolet should definitely care about the work Jim has been doing. All I keep hearing anymore is "who do I contact about information on my car?". There's a lot of new people getting into the older car hobby and as the prices rise, people will want some sort of verification of what they're buying.

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
GM fan base?

How many that own these cars also own a new GM car or truck?

[/ QUOTE ]

For one, My driveway and garage are all GM. (no COPO or Yenko here, just a couple of nice RS/SS cars and a Z)

-Sam

[Paul_S]

Hello... is anyone here?

Does anyone have any updates on the latest adventures of Jim M. and the vault of mystery?


Just curoius since the last I heard it was stalled.

Thanks, Paul

[mssl72]

I curious too. Any good news to report?

[69LM1]

Yep,
Anyway we can group up and send someone at GM a kickstart on this?
Maybe when that new stang comes out and ford starts making a killing off of them GM will wisen up?

[Pantera]

I fail to see how that would help them sell more new Camaro's? We can only pray that someone high up wants this to happen. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Jonesy]

So what is the latest. I know this is over 4-6 years old now. Anybody know?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[SBR]

I would also love an update. With the way things are right now, I'm sure finding old build sheets is the last thing on the minds of upper management at GM.

[njsteve]

Ignoring this market is pennywise and pound foolish, I think. They could charge $50 a pop for a package similar to the Pontiac one (which is $45 at the moment, if I recall) and people would pay for it. An easy money maker and a makes for cheap way for building your current and future customer base.

[al8apex]

I feel $100 would not be out of line

[Tommy_Mathison]

In all honesty, $1000 would not be out of line. I'm certain there are a lot of people with very nice cars that would pay more than that even.

[SBR]

I agree with Tommy, just think if you have a real 435 hp vette but have no real paperwork with the car. I'm sure that however owns a car like that would pay a 1000 or more to prove what he has. I remember reading on the NCRS forum a couple of years ago about this subject and most over there while hopeful, are in agreement that it will never happen. They say that Art Armstrong conducted a similiar search for the records with GMs cooperation years before Jim with no luck. I hope that it will happen as I am tired of all the BS cars in the hobby and would separate the fact from fiction but I'm not holding my breath.

[FASTONE]

I have a 67 435 and a 60 big brake vette. Both real cars with no paperwork. I would gladly give $1000 a car for GM paperwork. Don't think it will happen though.

[LS6 RAT]

Jim and I have talked about the Corvette records he has located. He is working on gaining possession of them and they do exist for the years we would like. I am not in need of them as I have original documents for both of my '71 LS6 Corvettes. However I will be interested to know how this information will be diseminated to owners. I would hope that unscrupulous individuals would not be able to gain access to verifiable documents to a rare optioned model, only to be able to recreate it from these documents. That would be a concern of mine.

[SBR]

Hi Warren,
A friend of mine spoke with Jim at a Pontiac show recently and his take was that Jim was not too hopeful of it happening. Maybe he caught him on a bad day or he did not want to talk Chevies at a Pontiac show, who know but I am getting tired of waiting. My cars are all verified documented etc just like yours are but the reason I want it to happen is because I want the fraud to end! It would be the best thing to happen for our hobby JMHO.

[bashton]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Warren,
A friend of mine spoke with Jim at a Pontiac show recently and his take was that Jim was not too hopeful of it happening. Maybe he caught him on a bad day or he did not want to talk Chevies at a Pontiac show, who know but I am getting tired of waiting. My cars are all verified documented etc just like yours are but the reason I want it to happen is because I want the fraud to end! It would be the best thing to happen for our hobby JMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim spoke of the Chevy records at his seminar at the St. Charles Pontiac show. He indeed indicated that the interest level was, shall we say, not high with GM and with all that is going on with the "new" GM, he felt that the chance of anyone getting into the records was pretty slim.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[barker]

Here is information concerning getting old records of your vehicles that I received.

Good Afternoon, Camaro Comrades and Firebird Friends!

Many of you have asked, over the years, about the possibility of getting more information on your Camaro or Firebird.

I'm pleased to provide you with the following:

&gt;Availability of Factory Invoices
&gt;Availability of Window Label reproduction

I've broken these down into a couple of sections -- please feel free to send this on to your fellow enthusiasts and club members!

GM Media Archive: For detailed information, please go to: www.gmmediaarchive.com (http://www.gmmediaarchive.com)


VEHICLE INVOICES: $50

Buick from 1982
Cadillac from 1980
Chevrolet from 1977
GMC from 1976
Oldsmobile from 1977
Pontiac from 1987


BUILD RECORDS: $50

Build records are available for Cadillac only. (See Corvette Build records below) There are build records available for virtually all years of Cadillac going back to 1903 with exception of: 1968, 1974-79 and some 1973 models.

<font color="red"> VINTAGE VEHICLE INFORMATION: $50

GM Heritage center will decode the VIN and provide various documents for your vehicle. (see site for more details) </font>



FROM PONTIAC HISTORIC SERVICES:

The vehicle invoice collection is the documentation of the vehicle cost broken out by model and factory options. It contains the original ship to dealer information, MSRP and invoice number that GWe now have the ability to provide a reproduction window sticker to Camaro enthusiasts.

The window sticker will look exactly like the original that would have come
on their car when new. Attached is our "new" Camaro window sticker order
form. The years that we will handle are 1981-2002.

However, to provide this service, we will require a copy of the dealer invoice
for their car. Without it, we won't have the necessary information needed
to correctly produce it.

If the owner does not have the dealer invoice for their car, they can obtain
the necessary paperwork from Allied-Vaughn. Their contact information is:
[email protected]

However, in keeping with the integrity of how vehicles were built, we will not print a window sticker any other way from how the vehiclewas produced. We will not add, delete nor change any options.


Jim Mattison
PHS - Automotive Services
[email protected]
586/781-5164 (office)

Thank you,

Dennis Barker
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[SBR]

Here some more info on the subject, pages 4 and 5 make me hopeful that it will happen. I will try to post the link.http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2028591-gm-build-records.html

[old5.0]

[ QUOTE ]
Here some more info on the subject, pages 4 and 5 make me hopeful that it will happen. I will try to post the link.http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2028591-gm-build-records.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Try this: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2028591-gm-build-records.html

[SBR]

Thanks for posting the link.