Side Post Battery

[RonNova396L34]

I am new to the bulletin board. I don't have a supercar but I share the same feelings about this type of car. Here is my question. I own a 1970 Nova SS 396/350 hp 4 speed that I bought from the original owner 2 years ago. The owner save the majority of the original equipment for the car. The items he changed were:Muncie to Hurst shifter, voltage regulator, rochester to Holley carb, and starter. The correct starter and carb are now on the car. He saved the original protecto-plate but the original window sticker he did not have. He said he never got it from the dealer. Now my question. He said the he ordered the car with a heavy duty battery which he said came as a SIDE POST battery. He swears on his good reputation that he never changed it and it truely came that way. The car was assembled the 3rd week of August 1969. He took delivery of the car September 18, 1969. I was told by someone that knows Novas, I won't mention names, that this battery was not available until May of 1970. I have a friend that also has a 70 396/350 Nova and his also has the side post battery. His though has a production date of May 1970. I'm hoping one of you guys can shed some light on my question. Have you seen any COPO or other supercars of 1969 or early 1970 ear with a side post battery? Thanks, Ron

[ORIGLS6]

Ron,
That's the way I understand it too. The HD Battery option (T60) gave you the side post battery. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable in this area will chime in but my '70 came with a side post as the HD option. I've even heard of some 6 cyl. cars that had the side posts.
Dennis

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hi Ron, and welcome!
You're not from New Ulm are you /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif If so, nice feature material in N-Times!

As far as I know, the '69 Novas with the heavy duty battery option were top post, and this carried over into the '70 year until May or thereabouts. This does not mean that your car didn't come with the side posts though, anything is possible back in the day. I just haven't seen the sideposts until the mid '70 cars, and even then mainly on Chevelles (?).

[SS427]

I have many build sheets (Chevelle) dating back to early December '69 with the side post battery T60 option. Didn't matter which plant. Fair to say that Chevelle and Novas could be different however.

[lowmile]

I have an unrestored 1970 nova, 6cyl car, and it came with a sidepost. the build date is August 1970. Mark

[RonNova396L34]

Marlin, Good guess. Yes, I'm from New Ulm and it is my car being featured in Nova Times. I've also seen your car. Nice. I've piled up hundreds of pictures and I also have video of the unique things I found which I've never seen published before. I saw your posting on driveshaft painting marks. Mine of course were different. I find it hard to believe the original owner would have switched from a top post to a side post with how careful he was to keep all the original parts. He even kept the original XT rims and hubcaps. Thanks for the answer. Ron

[RonNova396L34]

Dennis, What was the assembly date for your car? Before May, 1070? Ron

[Keith Tedford]

In '72 a Lemans or GTO with the 455 could get the C89 sealed, side post battery. They also had the following regular batteries with side terminals: R88, R88S, R88X, Y88, Y86,and R88W. I don't know if any of these battery codes applied to Chevelles.

[ORIGLS6]

136370R****** 05D460
Fourth week of May

[RonNova396L34]

SS427,
Do you have any build sheets for Chevelles as early as my car (August) with the side post battery? How about any Camaro owners? How early were they available. Dealer installed option??

[SS427]

Ron,
The earliest T-60 option I have is on a September 24th built L-78 El Camino.
Rick

[Nova Research Project]

Ron;

What are the part numbers and broadcast sheet codes on your battery cables? I can check the AM to see if the cables are correct for a T60 battery. Is there a part number on the battery?

Greg

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
Good question. Unfortunately the cables had been replaced during the 30 years of driving. When I took the cables off the car, I didn't see any numbers. The ends that connect to the battery definately had been replaced. The original owner described what happened this way. He said the car always started hard. One time, he couldn't get it to start. He started replacing things trying to find the problem. Alternator, voltage regulator, starter and then only to find out later he had a loose connection at the battery. He then believes he replaced the ends so he had a good connection again. He remembered that the original battery lasted 7 or 8 years. The dealer or factory messed up his order and he didn't even know it until I restored the car. He said he ordered the car with the 3.55 rear gears and his came with the 3.31 gears. The code on the rear showed 3.31 gears along with the protecto-plate. That's also what I found when I tore the rear end apart. Perhaps the dealer also messed up the battery order and the owner would have seen it so they replaced it? The owner was very particular about this car. He also had a problem with the front shocks when he first drove the car. The bolts weren't tightened and he wrecked both front shocks. He was not very happy to say the least. He said numerous other bolts weren't tightened. That's how particular he was about this car. The dealership the car was bought from is where I live but ownership has changed. I know where the previous dealership owner lives but I don't know if they kept their records. I guess it won't hurt to ask. Ron

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
I never found my build sheet. I looked everywhere. Seats, under carpet, dash. I never took the door panels off the car. Possibly there?? I found just a corner of paper that looked like the corner of a build sheet? I kind of doubt that it would be behind a door panel.
Ron

[Nova Research Project]

Ron,

The Fisher body build sheet <font color="red"> could </font color> be behind the door panel, but I doubt it. The Fisher build sheet would not really help with the battery.

I have followed your NNN progress. You have several broadcast codes already documented. FYI, I have made this offer before with no takers and it may not be of any value to you, but I am compiling examples of broadcast sheet codes to recreate broadcast sheets for the 70 Nova. If you have a list of the codes you found, I could pug them into a spreadsheet or compare them to my limited list of codes. It would of course also help me with research. It would not necessarily fully prove what is correct for you car. Greg

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
Are you in luck. I compiled a sheet with all the codes and part numbers I found during my restoration. I also shot some video of unusual part numbers. If you want the list or the video, let me know. What Nova do you have? Have I seen it? I'm been a NNN member for almost 20 years. My other car is featured on the Nova poster with Reggie's Yenko. I still own it.
Ron

[Allen]

I have one of those upholstery tag sheets that was under the rear seat springs on my '70 Nova SS L34. I can't figure out some of the codes on there, but can get the main ones.

[Mr70]

Chevrolet started using the Delco R-79W side post battery on their cars in late 69.It was available on the Camaro too.I am not sure about any COPO's receiving it though.
I have an two NOS side terminal Batteries still in their boxes,and both are dated July 1969.
Now when Chevrolet started installing them in cars,and what cars and what plants,and what time frame is a diffferent story.
All the 1970 ordering books and catalogs mention this new side terminal battery for the new cars in 1970,which by the way were annnouced to the public September 18-1969.
I have seen 1969 Camaros produced in Late 69,1970 Chevelles,Monte Carlos, and Impalas/Wagons have it as early as August 1969,but I am not about Novas.
Just curious,where is your current battery ground too,the block,or the Alt. Bracket?
I have a box full of Chevrolet MSO,Window stickers,buildsheets and Dealer invoices from 1969-72.I have not been able to get to sort them out.I will look for 1970 Nova specific and let you know what I find.
Your 3:31 rearend intrigues me,as the Chevelle did not get the 3:31 untill Oct 69.I have not seen one that early in a car as yours.3:55 was the norm,then the 4:10 was the optional.Is yours dated on the housing?

[Nova Research Project]

Ron;

Yes, I would like to get the codes and video. I can send you a check to cover costs. I will be able to put them into a form based on original 1970 Chassis and Body Broadcast sheets.

I have been a NNN member since the 80's. As for my Nova, you have not seen it since it has been in pieces for many years. It is nothing special, just my wife's High School car. I started it when my oldest was born. I have made great progress, but many things slowed the progress over the years. I have learned a lot in that time. Right now I travel heavily, so while everything is ready to put back together, I choose to spend my in town time with my children. In the meantime I am learning from this great site while slowing working on the Nova as a warm up for a Colonial Chevrolet Yenko Nova (once I find one).

Allen;

Post the codes or a picture of the fisher sheet and I'll decode it. If I can't the real experts here certainly can.

Greg

[Allen]

My Nova has an October date code and a rear code of CBS (testing my memory here) on the housing. The ring gear inside is dated 9/69 and is a 3.31.

One code on my upholstery tag that does NOT make sense is "C08" I thought that was for a vinyl roof, but my car does not have one, nor show the signs for one. Furthermore, I asked that question of the original owner and he said it didn't come with one.

Those forms are made by people, and people make mistakes, but it was interesting if nothing else. I'll get it out and look tonight and make a list of what is on there.

[RonNova396L34]

MR70
Boy am I glad I got pictures now and the video. My negative cable grounds to the passenger side of the block not the alternator bracket. This confused me when I was putting it back together according to the assembly manual. Yes my rear end housing was dated. Here is the code from the protecto-plate. CBS0808G. CBS is 3.31, August 8, I forget what the G means? I checked the sheet I made and I wrote down "CBS0808G1 E" as being stamped on the axle tube. I also wrote down a build date of Aug. 8, 1969. Like I said, I think I have video of the code on the housing and also of the numbers which you divide to get the ratio on the large gear. I haven't watched it lately. I can send anyone a copy of my sheet with the numbers. Here's my e-mail address. [email protected] It will take some time for a video if anyone wants a copy. I'll send a letter with the sheet free just e-mail me. I'm not in this for any money. I just want to help those who are trying to restore cars correctly. Boy, with the answers I'm seeing, I must have a very unusual car. Perhaps because of such an early production date?? I think I answered all the questions. I don't have the original battery. I would put pictures on this site but I'm new to the computer stuff. If someone else can that would be great.
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

I just remembered another thing about when I put the engine compartment back together. My alternator bracket only had space to mount the clip that holds the two heater hoses. There was no hole to mount a ground cable?? Any ideas? Why did you ask where it was grounded?
Ron

[Keith Tedford]

I have some GM info on 4 COPO Chevelles which were built with the T60 H.D. battery option. One was built approximately 4700 before ours and our car was a late July build. The other three were built between the two. You could order a COPO Chevelle with anything that could come on an L78 car so I would think these cars could get the T60 as well.

[SS427]

Why did you ask where it was grounded?

Ron, if I can answer this for mr70, this is a heavily debated question on '70 Chevelles and I have never heard a complete answer to the question. Only that it may have had something to do with the battery style and build dates. It is pretty common to see the T-60 battery with the engine mounted ground.

I am interested in the video and info as well. Please shoot me an e-mail with $$ to cover your costs. Also, if you shoot me an e-mail with the photos, I will post them here for you. However, it is quite simple. When you post a response, it states, "I want to preview my post and/or attach a file". Click on that, browse to find the picture and then attach. It is VERY simple here. If it doesn't work, shoot me the photos and I will do it for you.
The "other" Rick /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif (from Minnesota too /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif )

[Mr70]

Bingo!
That is what I meant.Jury still out on that theory though.Humans did make mistakes.

I did find a few 1970 Dealer invoices with T-60 on them earliest was a MonteCarlo from Sept.69.I would think the Nova was possible to get the T-60 R79 Side terminal in August.Paperwork for salesmen suggests that now anyway.

Yes Rick, Keiths Sept.69 l-78 Elco did get the R-79 too.So did a 1970 L-79/L-89 November 69 built Chevelle....thats one I am working on!

3:31 rearend was possible in Sept.69 for a Chevelle anyway,so that looks to be the real deal in your Nova.

Great another Minnesotian,six degrees of Minn. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Nova Research Project]

Allen;

On the fisher body sheet: The Body Number, Upper Body Color, and Lower Body Color from the sheet match the trim tag? Is the form number 44-1782?

The build sheets were printed by computer and computers are not perfect either. C08 would have meant that the body would have been fabricated for a vinyl top. The top of the quarter panel was finished differently and would have had the studs for the trim. What is the upper and lower color? If it is two tone, it is possible that C08 is what they used to get the moulding between the colors? Does your car have the B80 Bright drip rails? I would like to see your sheet, it sounds interesting!

Greg

[Allen]

My battery cable is also bolted to the block.

I've started a new discussion since this one sort-of deviated. Yes, the form that I saw those codes on is #44-1782

[RonNova396L34]

I watched the video tonight. It already was about 3 hours long. I now saw I didn't have video of the car back together. I'll go outside tomorrow and add this to the tape. I'll try to remember to get the things I missed. For you who want a copy, anything you specifically want to see? Tell me now before I'm done and send off a tape. I'll for sure try to get the alternator bracket and rear end if I can get under the car.
Ron

[SS427]

Ron, I like to see close up shots of detail items such as inspection marks, attachment points, detailed trunk shots, undercarriage shots, factory sound deadener etc. I am more interested in original shots of these than restored pictures for obvious reasons but interested none the less. At 3 hours long, I think it safe to assume that you pretty much got it all. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

[RonNova396L34]

SS427
I did get a lot of interesting shots which won't be published in Nova Times. Mostly because of the number of pictures I have and at what point it becomes boring to the subscribers. I will say I have more unrestored pictures than unrestored video. I moved around alot on the video since I did the video just for my records and not as a documentary. I mostly have done this as a driver hence I left the wild candy apple blue metal flake paint on. The car is originally Cortez Silver. I won't restore it as a gold spinner car since I want to drive it. I already have one that I don't want to drive. I'm with the crowd now that wants to drive the car. I checked on shooting video of the unrestored pictures I took and it looks like it will work. This will really increase the video length. I think I have a total of 600 to 700 pictures. I had a friend with a digital camera come today and take a couple of pictures of the car and I'll hopefully try to post them. (I'll keep my fingers crossed.)
Ron

[Nova Research Project]

Ron;

I had proposed to do an "In Detail" Picture CD for NNN this past fall. I had used the B&amp;W pictures of Dave Belk's Yenko as the prototype. I would include high resolution color pictures and a description of the action like in Nova times. I would be willing to do that same thing with your pictures (and maybe video) for you. Since this is a limited audience I could put it together and send it out at no cost on CD.

I will upload the prototype to the web this weekend for you to look at. It will only be there for a short time, since it is using copyrighted material which I have no right to use. If any one else wants to use pictures of their supercar, I could ask Tom to use the Supercar Registry logo.

I would need copies of your pictures to scan into the computer. This maybe an easier way to distribute your hundreds of pictures. I will let you know when the prototype is loaded on the web.

Greg

BTW, It could be a great fund raiser for this board or others if it gets really popular, which is why a came up with it for NNN. A cool way to see detail of other restorations.

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
Sounds good. Did you get my e-mail with digital photos? I also sent them to SS427. Did either of you get them? I just got a feeling I messed it up. I tried to post it here but it said the file was too big. I could send you my binders with the pictures in them. Risky though. Maybe contact Wayne at NNN since they're done with a lot of them. If Wayne needs my permission let me know. The video of the pictures turned out nice. I just couldn't get much video of the underside of the car now. I need it up on a hoist. I'm done with the video so all interested send me an e-mail of where to send it to.
Ron

[SS427]

Ron, I did not. Keep in mind that my cheap (me not my account) hotmail account can only accept a total of 1040K in size. If more than that it will kick them back. You may need to send several e-mails. If not, throw them on a disc and I will reimburse you your costs. I can never get enough resource material. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Nova Research Project]

Ron,

I have not checked my Email. So I do not know if it worked. I am on a different computer to do the upload to the web.

Here is the link InDetail Prototype (http://members.cox.net/indetail/indexa.html)

I had to reduce the resolution of the large pictures and eliminate some of them to keep within the site limits. Remember this is a rough prototype. I spent more time scanning in the B&amp;W pictures than creating everything else.

If you like this than we can work out how to do the pictures.

Dave, if you do not want me using the Nova Times pictures of the Yenko email me and I will take them down. Otherwise they will come down in about a week.

Greg

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
Neat, it would be nice to have a small description under each picture so a reader knows what he/she is looking at. Maybe owners could give more comments than what is in NNN. With so many pictures of the same item from different angles, people can miss the point of what you're trying to show. Rick said he got my e-mail. I still don't know how to put a picture of the engine here?? You should have got 5 digital photos. The one showed where the negative battery cable was mounted.
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

MR70
This may seem like a dumb question but the only dumb question is the one not asked. You said it should be a R79W battery. I've only seen R89W battery reproductions. Is anyone reproducing the R79W? I'm guessing they are somewhat different and this is why I say that. After I bought the reproduction R89W battery and showed it to the original owner, he said it didn't look exactly right from what he remembered. He thought it was something to do with the Delco-eye if I remember what he said exactly? Is he right? After all the discussion on this, I really am starting to believe he had the real deal T-60 side post battery. If he's right, what a memory after 30 years.
Ron

[Nova Research Project]

Here is the picture of the battery cable connection to the engine block. I reduced the quality to 90% to make it small enough to post. Greg

[ORIGLS6]

Ron,
I'm sure Rick will respond to your question also because I just asked him the same thing. At present, no one is reproducing the R-79. Our best option is the R-89 which, among other things, has the incorrect threads in the negative post.
Maybe we all need to contact the people doing (or NOT doing)these batteries and express our interest. Demand = Supply?
Dennis

[RonNova396L34]

Dennis,
I'm going out on a limb here but I think the owner said the Delco Eye wasn't clear on the original? I haven't looked at my repro lately? Or is the lettering on the caps different. Now, I need to walk 2 blocks to ask the original owner again. I agree it would be nice to have the correct reproduction.

Greg,
Thanks for posting the picture for me. The valve covers got all sweaty since I heated the garage briefly and it was real cold that day.

Ron

[ORIGLS6]

Ron,

I thought the eyes were green. The lettering may be different also but the texture on the case is the dead give-away. I think the old R-79's had the elephant hide textured case. Rick has an original still in the box. He can go into very exact detail with the differences.
Rick, Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mr70]

The R-79 his NOT being reproduced by anyone,never was nor will.To small a market for them to do this.Only a small percentage of cars in their eyes had them,so it does not make economical sense.It was only available for a short run,1970.1971 was the new R-89 Battery.I'm sure we as Muscle car owners would sure like to see the R79 remade properly.Today they all sell you a R-89 Delco battery.It has R-89 formed into the side next to E-5000.Then they sell you a top decal that says "Recommended Replacement with R79".It isn't concourse correct. The R-79 had an Elephant type texture case,and the R-89 has that.The terminal bolt sizes were each different on the R79 also.The R89 were both the same size terminal.I do have an R-79 &amp; R89 NOS Batteries still sealed in their boxes,with warranty cards and caps in the bags.They are dry charge sealed,and can still be a reliable working battery today with care and patience.

[ORIGLS6]

I knew we could count on you. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Thanks, Rick!

[ORIGLS6]

Rick/Anyone,
What do you know about the battery offered by Year One? Their P/N HD89 says "All 1970 models and 1971-71 454 models with the T60 heavy-duty battery option. This battery has side terminals rated at 760 CCA and 950 CA. It is a reproduction of the R89W heavy-duty (Group 74) battery available in many models during the early 1970s. The battery features the correct "elephant hide" textured case and the "eye caps" for viewing the fluid level."
Has anyone seen or tried this piece? No mention of the thread size for the negative terminal.
Dennis

[Mr70]

Dennis
Thats the Reproduction Battery sold to them from Newcastle.
I believe either NewCastle or Antique Battery is the only one licensed to make it,then all the aftermarket houses buy it from them,at cost and charge what they will.
They sell you the R-79 decal and it becomes a 1970 battery.
They sell you the R-89 decal,and it stays the 1971 R-89 battery.
They all get the eye caps std.
This will not have the different size terminal bolts.to expesive for them to make.
I think you will have to settle for the R-89,no matter what.Shop around and find the best price,they are all coming from the same Factory...

[Keith Tedford]

Here is the C-89 sealed, side post battery available in the Lemans and GTO in 1972. Did the Chevelles use it?

[Mr70]

In 1972,the R89 was still the Battery used in the Chevelle.

[RonNova396L34]

mr70
I checked my hand written notes on the rear end gear code. This is what was stamped on the large gear in the rear end. GM3862689 13 43 8 69. 43 divided by 13 equals 3.31 rounded up of course. I verified this when I watch my video.
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

MR70
I just got back from looking at my friend's 66,000 mile 70 Nova 396/350 with a side post battery. His car was built May 1970 and the negative cable was grounded to the engine block at the exact same spot as mine.
Ron

[Allen]

Ron,
For what it's worth, I check my notes from when I pulled the rear end cover off mine to drain/refill the oil. Aside from the date code of 9 69, everything else is stamped the same. Also, my ground cable bolts to the block. I have no clue what battery the car came with new as it has seen too much action to still have something like that with it. I just had to check the mileage for insurance purposes (renewing). The odometer reads 32,291 ..... and it has been turned over once.

[RonNova396L34]

Allen &amp; All:
For all of you debating the battery issue, add one more heavy duty side post battery being grounded to the engine block. I just looked at a one owner all original 70 Monte Carlo SS454 and the owner said it came with a heavy duty side post battery. The orginal cables were still there. Build date was 2nd week of October 1969. On a side note, this car was sold from the same dealer mine was sold from.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Kurt S]

My 05C SS396 is the earliest BB I've seen with sideposts. (69 Camaro, of course.)

[RonNova396L34]

Kurt S,
If you don't mind me asking, where is it grounded? The engine block or on the alternator bracket? Wow, that is an extremely early car! Maybe it's just me but doesn't that assembly date seem like it should be a late 68 car?
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JoeC]

On my 1969 alt bracket there are only two holes on top. One is for a heater hose bracket bolt, the other is for a plastic clip that is attached to wire harness for alt. There is no place for the bat. ground cable on the alt. bracket so bat cable bolts to block. Car has it's original wire harness.

[RonNova396L34]

JoeC
That is exactly how mine was. Only two holes on the alternator bracket. One for hose bracket, one for the plastic wiring plug.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Kurt S]

I remember it's different than what I normally see, but I don't have a pic of it and it's in storage.......

[Mr70]

My October 1969 70 Velle came with 4 holes n the Alt. bracket.
*one for heater hoses
*one for Alt. wiring
*one for Battery ground w/star washer indents
*one 1" circle for adjusting the Alt.belt tension with a pry bar

[Unreal]

The upper alternator bracket without the adjustment hole was 69 only. But what about late 69 (after the 70 Chevelle, Impala, etc came out. Were they 69 style, or 70 style.

[RonNova396L34]

Unreal,
My bracket is for a 70 Nova. It was built during the 3rd week of August 1969. It does not have the large adjustment hole. My friend who has a 3rd week of May, 1970 car has the adjustment hole for his 1970 Nova SS 396/350 hp side post battery car. I'll probably look at a buddy's 70 Monte SS454 again this weekend and I'll try to remember to look to see if his has the hole. His is a October 1969 built car with a side post battery.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[SS427]

Ron,
That Monte Carlo has no adjustment access hole.
Rick

[bbdon]

I think that the only hole used on the big block Novas is the one for the alternator wiring holder. All of the old road test photos hat I have seen on big block Novas have no heater hose bracket and no ground cable on the alternator bracket.

[RonNova396L34]

bbDon
Just curious. Are those old road test photos of 396/375 hp cars or 396/350 hp cars? Or Both? When I got my car from the original owner, it didn't have the hose bracket. It also didn't have the front engine lift bracket on the front of the intake manifold. Does it show any of the lift brackets in the photos?
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[bbdon]

Neither the L34 nor the L78 seemed to get the heater hose bracket, though I did see one exception. That one is the Motion phase three car from Cars Magazine in 69 . Not a good example, because of the many other changes that were made on that car. All of the cars that I have pictures of do have the lift brackets. If you still have the original alternator bracket , you can look in the hole and see if it looks like a bolt was screwed into it before. Mine did not seem to have any threads cut into the holes.

[Allen]

Mine must just be a weird one all together.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/37279735/37280203czthhI

http://community.webshots.com/photo/37279735/50666837FPpMuK

If you look close, you can see the battery cable bolted to the block.