70 Nova TCS Relay

[Nova Research Project]

Marlin,

At the local Ace hardware I found some aluminum rivets and steel washers the correct size for the TCS relay. They are made by Hillman of Cincinnati. The Rivet is a 3/16" dia. x 1/4" tube rivet with a 3/8" head # 1278M. The steel plated washer was a 1/8" #8 #1235-A. The hole will need to be drilled out to 3/16". I wonder if they make a steel version of the rivets. They also had a Hollow Steel Punch made by General for punching the holes in the plastic for the relay.

I have a few questions. The many year old Softseal wire channel I have is much stiffer and slightly different shape. Not much but a little. Have you bought yours yet? If so how does it compare? Was your original relay installed through the existing holes or punched through the plastic? See attached photo.

Lastly was you relay number 3961573? Today I realized that they are date coded. What was the date code on yours? My replacement is 4-0 (April 70), My original was dated 12-9 (December 69). Looks like I need to find an earlier dated unit. Thanks, Greg

[SS427]

Interesting rivet placement. The rivet looks correct but seems to be facing the wrong direction unless I am looking at it wrong. I have always seen that part of the rivet on the inside of the channel. The pad head part of the rivet has always been showing on the front side.

[Allen]

I have a couple of those in my stash o' parts. One of them still has the original rivets and looks pretty much like the photo. Where is the date code?

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
I went out and looked at my 70 396/350 Nova. The number on the top was 3961573. The date was 8-9. August 69. Sorry, I can't help you guys out with the rivets. I had plastic round plugs instead that appeared to be non original. Add this to my information sheet Greg. I know it's not on there. You'll see the plastic plugs on the video though.
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

Allen,
If you're looking at one on the firewall gutter, the main number is at the top. The date code is on the right side about half way down. It's on the flat silver colored part.
Ron

[RonNova396L34]

Greg,
Also my reproduction wiring gutter was too long. I had to cut it shorter.
Ron

[Nova Research Project]

Ron;

Thanks, mine was the correct length 13 1/16". The orginal has another set of relay holes 3" from the right end as well as another oval mounting hole 3" from the right.

Allen;
The date code is real small just above "INC."

Thanks,Greg

[JRSully]

Marlin, I Have an untouched TCS switch still attached to the wire gutter that I took off that 70 L78 car in Fla, can get you some pics and/or #'s if needed, let me know. Still trying to find time to call you, Try to get over the weekend.

JR

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Gregg;
I still have my original wire gutter, and reused it when I did the resto. The TCS switch is also my orig one, but it is pretty sorry looking, hence the need to switch it to the NOS one. The rivets on your pic look just like mine, so if you have found suitable replacements at the hardware store, that is where I will go to check them out. My wire gutter is very stiff, not sure if it was that way originally, or if the 32 years of elements have hardened it up. Either way it still has the telltale 'lines' molded into it, unlike the pretty smooth repo's.
Thx for the pic,

[SS427]

I went and looked at a '70 original mileage Chevelle today and it had these plastic rivets in the gutter. This car was a September Van Nuys car and is almost 100% original excluding plug wires, water pump and radiator (bird). I have never seen these on the Chevelles before. Ron and others have stated they had these on their Nova's. Anyone else seen this type of rivet?
Rick

[Mr70]

Was this Chevelle in Michigan?
Is it Astro blue?

[JRSully]

I took off the complete wiring harness from an untouched 70 L78 Nova, including the wiring gutter w/ TCS switch attached. It is attached with those exact plastic push rivets. Does an original TCS switch have "littlefuse" stamped on the cover.???

[RonNova396L34]

Rick,
I got my plugs sitting in front of me here as I type and they look exactly like those you posted a picture of. They were on my car when I bought it from the original owner but I figured somebody replaced the rivets at one time. Now I'm glad I hung onto them. Also Rick, I think they may be the same plugs that are used to hold the flap for the radiator to the radiator support on BB 70 Novas. It looks about the same size but I can't remember if the cars I've seen had ones like that with the line that runs across the center of it?? It could be one and the same thing!!

Sully,
The wording says "little fuse inc" at the bottom. There are two styles of this TCS if I remember correctly. The style shown in that picture is a different one than mine. Mine also has a date above and to the right of the little fuse inc wording.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Nova Research Project]

Ron,

I agree that the plug looks the same as on the BB radiator seal. The radiator seal plug is also the same plug that is used to hold the grille to bumper filler to the steel reinforcement on the Nova. The picture I sent you was of part number 9792217 (attached). The short one is the original off of my bumper filler. The long one is the newer version I bought in a bag of 25 or so several years ago.

The plug 3952914 was used on the 69 Nova filler. In the 70 Nova model year 9792217 replaced 3952914 in December 69 on the filler. 9792217 and 3943268 were both used on the 69 and 70 radiator seal back and forth.

9792217 was shown in the 69 Camaro AM possibly as a replacement for the inner fender seal staples, but was removed on July 2, 68. I wonder if this plug was used anywhere else on the Monte/Chevelle?

Despite the TCS relay going back and forth between the two part numbers, I find no reference to plugs to install it. I wonder if this was done on the line because it was easier than the rivets?

[Nova Research Project]

JRSully,

"LITTELFUSE" stamped on the cover is correct for the one like I posted. Any chance of a picture for the research project? Any idea of the date code from the trim tag on that L78 Nova? I am tracking VIN and Body tag info. It would also help track when they may have started using the plugs.

If anyone else runs across any Novas (68-72) in the boneyards, would you mind grabing the VIN and everything off of the trim tag. Pic's are cool too. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Thanks,
Greg

[Nova Research Project]

Marlin,

Oh yeah, I also found some steel rivets instead of the aluminium ones above. I got a few extras.

Greg

[Belair62]

What does the TCS switch do ? here is a trans mounted TCS switch on e-bay TCS (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400195102&category=10 076)

[RonNova396L34]

Belair62,
The item on ebay get's mounted into your transmission. The TCS stuff I believe came into effect for the 70 models. There are 3 parts to this system. The 1st is mounted into the transmission, the 2nd get's mounted typically onto the firewall wiring gutter and the 3rd is mounted at the front of the intake just in front of the air cleaner. This system deals with vacuum. In order for the engine to receive maximum vacuum, the engine has to be warm and the transmission has to be in 4th gear for a 4 speed. That is the way I understand I works. It deals with the amount of vacuum that is allowed and in what gear. Apparantly a lot of people take the inside stuff out and then it acts as a vacuum canister all the time. Don't have to worry about 4th gear then.

I believe TCS means:Transmission Control Solenoid???
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Mr70]

Bob you asked...
TCS=Transmission Controlled Spark.
New for 1970 cars and Series 10 Trucks.It was designed to provide Vacuum Spark Advance during Hi-gear operation only.
Elimination of Vacuum advance in all but the forward gears,greatly reduces exhaust emissions.
It consists of:
*A Vacuum Control valve mounted on the intake.
*A Transmission control switch mounted on the trans.
*A coolant temperature switch mounted on the passenger side of the head.
The item on the firewall is merely a relay.
During operation the valve controls the Vacuum Advance to the Distributor,in response to a signal from either switch.This also hurt Horsepower,so we all pitched it upon taking ownership of the new MuscleCar.

[RonNova396L34]

mr70
Thanks for the clarification on that. I was having a couple of brain farts on that. I knew about the temperature sending unit but forgot it in the post. I couldn't remember what the "S" stood for so I left the ?? I knew somebody would clarify that.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Belair62]

Thanks...I was wondering what you guys were talking about .......

[JRSully]

Greg, I will get you pics of my TCS on the plastic gutter shortly, getting better with the digital camera, but not quite there yet. I sent you my cowl info on my L78 via a PM. i will get you the cowl info off my other 70 and 71 in a week or two. Concerning the function of the TCS, are people actually running the complete TCS system.??? Sounds like it robs power,definitely dont want that. As I will be restoring the entire system, I would like it to work when I want it to, not when I am racing some nosering in a Honda.

[RonNova396L34]

Sully,
When I had Jeff Dotterer restore my TCS for the intake, I had him remove the internals. You can still run it and then you don't have the vacuum situation. It's there all the time. It remains factory looking and nobody knows about it being gutted. Oops, now everybody knows mine is anyway. I believe NNN did this also with the L78 giveaway car!
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JRSully]

Ron, that is probably what I will do, my only problem is that I have a beautiful NOS TCS vacaum set up, don't feel like ripping it apart, does it come apart.??? or should I get a repo or used one.??? Thanks

JR

[RonNova396L34]

Sully,
If you have old NNN issues, go to June 1997. On pages 14 and 15 it shows how the unit comes apart. I didn't take mine apart so I can't tell you. I know you have Jeff's number so you could call him. It doesn't look that hard. Looks like you just have to push the crimps on the cover open and it comes apart. In the article it said they did not reinstall the plunger and spring therefore making the solenoid a vacuum canister. Hope this helps.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[JRSully]

Sure does Ron, I will let you know how I made out when it comes time to do that, I will be quite happy, as the car will be almost done at that time. Thanks again


JR

[Mr70]

I have the complete system working on my Chevelle.It actual improves my Gas Mileage.
Why not just take your system off instead of trying to look correct??
If you as the owner do not care for it,why should a
carshow judge or anyone else tell you what is missing.

The Shadow Grey L-78 NNN Nova that Jeremy Newton won here in Illinois in the 90's did have it working when he sold it recently.Can't say as I blame im as he sold a ton of those Raffle tickets for the NNN,then kept one for himself...That was the winning ticket.
He showed it with me at Local carshows,then used it to finance his way to College.

[JoeC]

I have seen some original TCS systems that use a tube from the selonod to the back of the Q-jet carb which was for clean filtered air for the TCS selonod. Many of the restored cars I see have this line missing but the tube port is there on the back of the Q-jet. Not sure if they all should use this line to back of carb in addition to other lines for vac advance.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Actually, all you have to do is just re-route the vaccuum lines on the intake's TCS switch so they bypass the solenoid. I have all the lines on there, but for street driving, I just bypass the TCS, then put it back for the shows. Or, some owners just drill the solenoid through, thereby you always have the vacuum signal.

You also need the 4way tee that links the carb, solenoid, & A.I.R. pump. Wayne, Stan, and I worked on Belky's orange deuce's TCS system a few years ago getting all the lines figured out.

[ORIGLS6]

Marlin/anyone,
Are the 4-way tee connectors available from any of the major resto suppliers? I found one at the local NAPA store in a somewhat accurate color but it takes some work to get the moulding details correct. Had to trim away some of the flashing between the nibs, etc. Also would be interested in some detailed shots of the correct routing of the hoses.
Dennis

[SS427]

Dennis,
In all the photos I sent you there were some close up detail shots of the TCS routing. Did you copy any of them?
Rick

[Mr70]

Dennis
Very easy to hook up.Your later built Chevelle should have a metal line in there as well.

[ORIGLS6]

Rick,Rick,
Most of it is clear but the tee and a couple of the lines are obscured by the PCV hose. I'm just wondering which lines come off the two nipples on the side of the tee. I would guess one end goes to the carb base and the other to the TCS. Then I'm guessing the side nipple farthest from the carb is the AIR and the closest is the choke diaphragm.
I picked up two different metal lines from Repro vendors but neither were 100% accurate so I ended up making my own based on photos from a number of other cars. I also have a metal section in the line from the TCS to Distributor.
Again, one of those things I should have recorded in Chicago!