Fastest Musclecar?

[MotownMadman]

OK guys, here is the question of the day. What is the fastest musclecar ever delivered from the dealer, going straight to the strip and turning the best times with no changes except maybe tires? Everybody take a stab at it then I will toss in my opinion, which is of one I used to own and have been sorry ever since the day I sold it. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[GRB]

I'm thinking one of the mid 60s lightweight hemis. Seem to rember a C&D article about a coronet. Wish I could read it again.

[MotownMadman]

You are a sharp one, lets see if anybody can pin it down further. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[JChlupsa]

1967 Cornet 440- 440 not being the motor but part of the cars name. Car was powered by a HEMI from the factory.

[olredalert]

------Whats allowed in the choices?I mean,if Cobras are allowed,everything is up in the air.
------I will say that an LS6 with headers,slicks and 4:56s would break into the 11s,but open headers arent in your question.Those are pretty stout numbers,but there are other cars to choose from.The right Buick Gran Sport could do some damage too.If you had to run thru the full factory exaust a ZL1 might be at a disadvantage.Same with a COPO.Exaust really cut them down a peg.Factory delivered Hemis never showed me much.But watch out if they had a cam change and compression bumped a tad.Back in 65/66,in street racing days we payed alot of attention to the way a Hemi sounded.you could tell a modified one!
------But my personal choice(if Corvettes are allowed)would be a 69 Corvette open chamber L88 automatic.You could only get them delivered with 3:55s,but they were bad boys.Throw a gear change in there with a little looser converter and watch out............Bill S.......ol red!

[Belair62]

Hemi Dart

[MotownMadman]

BINGO! The 68 Hemi Dart, also known as the Elephant Dart, prepared by Hurst corporation, 55 built, sold thru the dealers bill of sale only, labled for race use only. Some may argue that not to be a musclecar since it was sold no title, yet it came through the dealer, straight to the track in the mid ten second bracket. They came with acid dipped fenders, no window regulators, no back seat, front clip in primer, rear wheel wells opened up, thin side glass, and slicks if you ordered them. Never before or after did one of the big three do anything like it. They also came with zero warranty. The guys at Hurst would beat the shock towers in with a hammer to make the Hemi fit. Ya Hoo! Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Belair62]

What did I win MM ? /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[MotownMadman]

Belair, I will give special directions to Santa to drop an L-72 through your roof. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Motown

[JoeC]

The Motion 454 Phase III Vega ran in the 9s.

[MotownMadman]

Joe, question is, that would be a dealer built car would it not? I mean delivered thru the dealer with all the dealers of that automaker having the ability to recieve one, and also sanctioned by the automaker. I believe the Motion cars to be availible thru Motion, were they not? Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[sixtiesmuscle]

Just to clarify, the Dart [and hemi Cudas] came with fiberglass fenders & hood, and, "thin" [not acid dipped] doors. The one shock tower was relocated, but, professionally done.

[MotownMadman]

Sixties, I hate to disagree, but the hood was fiberglass, fenders were light steel, and the shock towers were hammered. My brother worked there when the Darts were built and I bought mine from the owner of the company, Don Leith.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[MotownMadman]

I stand corrected on one issue, I just called my brother who informed me the first five had dipped fenders and the other 50 had fiberglass. Seems the fiberglass fenders were not shipped to Hurst for the beggining of production something to do with a problem with the molds, so Hurst sent out the fenders on the first five built and had them dipped. But the shock towers were hammered. When I bought mine from the owner it was the first one built that he had kept for quite awhile, my friend still owns the car to this day. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Salvatore]

I think we should check the 63 Ford Thunderbolt. I am almost sure that the 68 Hemi Darts or Cudas didn't run in the 10's from the factory. The SS/A or SS/AA record wasn't even 10:50's in 68. Even in drag trim they didn't go that fast. I am not sure I could consider those true street cars either. The 427 corvettes and the 427 camaro's were very hard to beat with tires. The Thunderbolt was as much a production car as the Hemi Darts and Cudas, which wasn't much. I would LOVE to own one though!!!

[MotownMadman]

This is getting better by the minute! Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[JoeC]

Weren't the Hemi Darts built at Demmer Tool and Die? Same place that built the Hurst Olds, the Super Stock AMC cars, striped some of the Yenko Deuces, and did a bunch of other low volume cars.

[Belair62]

Anyone have a list of all the factory built racers with e.t.'s out of the box ? SD Pontiacs,Hemi Darts,Thunderbolts,Z11's etc. MM...you opened this box now get to work !!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[68l30]

I would say the 68 Hemi Dart/Cuda's as well, but the point of a factory built is in question as noted before.I don't believe it was a production car or sold as such.Note the disclaimer put on all cars produced.I don't recall if the body's/mods were ever DOT aproved in 68.Only NHRA sanctioned/approved. Hurst is a lot like Motion for a comparison sake.Big difference is the Mopars were sold thru or by Chrysler not Hurst.Kind of like Demmer Eng. and the Olds.Converted by Demmer,returned to Olds and sold thru Olds.I feel they were a type of factory assy. subcontracted by GM or Mopar.I feel the gray area in the Mopar camp is if they were ever sold to be street legal and licensed as such in 68.In my opinion they were the fastest,baddest cars in A/S (?) then and now.......Oh yeah,I'll still take a boat load of 454 Vegas....that's really insane.

Ps. I did build a 440 Mopar powered 78 Monza..those cars Rock and Roll with any Big Block. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif


Steve

[Salvatore]

How about the infamous ZL1's? They were real fast for the first 200miles then with the incredible amount of cyclinder leakage they lost about 20% of their power. Sutliff Chevy in Harrisburg, Pa. had at least 2 complete motors stored in the back of their garage for years, they replaced some of the ZL1 motors with iron block 427's, for their customers. Very hard to beat the chevy's back then! I would still stick with the big block vette or camaro. Sam

[olredalert]

Mike,

------Although awesome cars,and delivered thru dealers(sic)I believe the hemi Darts and Cudas sort of violate the rules as they were not built on an assembly line.I know,I know,you are the one making the rules,so its OK.......I guess!......Bill S......ol red!

[MotownMadman]

Joe, the Darts, and mant other cars including the mid seventies Trans Ams T-Roofs were done at Hurst Performance, Brighton, Michigan, owned by Don Leith, vice president Dick Chrysler who ended up coming up with a better T-Roof design and running Hurst performance out of business to open Cars and Concepts right down the road. The same year as the Hemi Dart was also the same year of the silver and black first Hurst Olds, 1968. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[MotownMadman]

Belair, ruh,roh, you mean you are giving me a homework assignment? Geeez... I will see if I can come up with a performance list in the next few days. Off to the mountains of vintage magazines, me and my big yap! Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[68l30]

Joe,after thinking some more about it I would say you may be correct with the motion Vega.I was reluctant to call them a mfg but the federal gov. did. Right?Where would the AMC S/S AMX fall?Car Craft give away cars,same concept as the Mopars an all the rest.Great topic,where would you draw the line as to "factory".Big three or all of the conversion cars included,Hurst,Demmer,Cars and Concepts,Motion,ect....There were some insane cars built before regulations and such.Think what might have happened if Big Brother had not gotten involved. /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif

Steve

[Belair62]

Pack a lunch and report back !

[MotownMadman]

If Big Brother had not got involved we would be like the coyote in the roadrunner cartoon, we would be flying along on a acme rocket ship that I am sure would be catching the roadrunners. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[mr gasser]

Belair didnt Hooty Spoler own that Hemi Dart......

[68l30]

Catch the Roadrunners.. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif I sold the Monza to race a 68 Roadrunner......... /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

Steve

[MotownMadman]

Bill, if we are going to have spelling class with the (sic) you might want to at least start with spelling my name right, Matt, not Mike, assuming you were replying to me. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif P.S. Is Red Alert locked in with the deal with Drew?

[Belair62]

No Mr Gasser that was John Furlon

[mr gasser]

Belair ok he was part of Red Camilos pit crew with !no big thing!.

[Belair62]

After the Hemi dart he went with the injected Nova called "Grumpafoot"

[JoeC]

I checked my copy of "The Hurst Heritage." It says the 1968 Hurst conversion cars were built at Demmer in Lansing Mich. Cars and Concepts was founded in 1976 and bought out Hurst in 1982.

[MotownMadman]

Joe, the Hurst Olds cars were built in Lansing as Oldsmobile was in Lansing which made it covienient for the conversions, however Chrysler was based in Detroit and Brighton just happens to be halfway betwwen Detroit and Lansing, the Darts were built in brighton at Hurst Performance, which may or may not have been a subsiderary of Demmer, but they were definatly built in Brighton. You are correct about the rise of C&C and the fall of Hurst, they were a few miles apart and the founder of C&C was the fprmer VP of Hurst, Dick Chrysler, who had a better product and thus the end of Hurst. Dick Chrysler eventually sold the company to the employees and went on to become a Congressman. Don Leith who was the president of Hurst still lives in the Brighton/Howell area and also has one of the original Darts from the Brighton plant. My old car is in Howell belonging to a friend of mine, Norbert. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[mc25t190]

anyone considered the 69 yenko 427 nova?

[Norm reynolds]

Here is one list The list shows the car as it came out of the box no mods done I was surprise to see the ZL-1 did not do so good out of the box This discussion could go on till the end of time Every one thinks he has the fastest car .A lot has to do with the driver , weather conditions, how the car is tuned, AND luck
Norm
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette [email protected] 350 LT5 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.80@112 427 L72 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Roadrunner [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird [email protected] 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.10@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 [email protected] 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro [email protected] 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette [email protected] 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS [email protected] 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I [email protected] 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS [email protected] 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am [email protected] 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette [email protected] 427 L88 430 automatic(?) 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra [email protected] 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R [email protected] 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 [email protected] 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 CorvetteGS [email protected] 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette [email protected] 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds [email protected] 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 L71 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 351 Boss 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T [email protected] 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 [email protected] 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 [email protected] 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 [email protected] 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette [email protected] 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO [email protected] 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70
Legend:
CC=Car Craft
CD=Car and Driver
CL=Car Life
HC=Hi Performance Cars
HR=Hot Rod
MCR=Muscle Car Review

[rich p]

Just got in !!Real 1968 SuperStocker Dart (LO)For Sale
Hemi Crate motor and all the real goodies. Documented by Galen as a real Lo Dart

[MotownMadman]

How much? Whats the numbers? Motown

[55chevy]

The '64 A/FX lightweight 427 Falcon was built to, I believe, run down Thunderbolts and Hemi Darts and Barracudas and hand their ass back to them.. I believe less than a handfull were built but they were done the same way the Thunderbolt was. So they would be considered factory as well.

[MotownMadman]

If we are considering non titled factory race cars as the Dart, you are absolutly correct, except the Falcon was a 65 and it was fiberglass. In 64 Dyno Don ran a factory Prepared A/FX Comet which set NHRA records. Dons best time was 10:56, the falcon turned in a best time of 9:80. In retrospect to these factory prepared cars I am now of the opinion that they should not be included in the fastest musclecar catagory as they were not allowed for street use. So guys, what is the quickest delivered from factory to dealer to customer, not including dealer built cars? Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Chevy454]

This is gonna hard to pin down. What sources should we use? Old road tests? Original onwer stories? Current owner's experiences?

I noticed a few things on the list above, which has made it's way around the internet and in many mags. First off, the trap speed on the '68 Biscayne test, which is listed as 105, is wrong: it trapped over 108. Oddly, whoever made up the first list didn't read the article (which we have) which states this fact, but instead they posted the incorrect 105 number, and this got error got regurgitated. Also, there was an L-72 Chevelle tested that ran a 13.31@108+ which is absent from the list. The same mag that tested the previous 3 cars (SS&DI) tested an L-72 Camaro, but started with headers, which pushed it easily into the twelves (the Biscyane and Chevelle test were done bone stock without turning even a wrench). So, it seems an L-72 equipped steel bodied car was good for REALLY low 13s at better than 108mph, and a Corvette would put it into the 12s with a huge mph. Also worth noting is the L-88 Corvette in the test, which was equipped with 3.36 gears and an automatic. Talk about mismatched equipment...there's nothing much worse than a huge cam (power range was listed as 4,400-7,000) coupled with a low stall (2,200rpm) converter coupled with hi-way gears. It's impressive it still ran a [email protected] imagine if it was a 4-speed with some decent gears? Oh, and it would be safe to say a ZL-1 Corvette would have knocked a tenth or two off of the ZL-1 Camaro's time just due to the lighter weight.

Now, carry on!

[Norm reynolds]

Rob I have to agree with you That it is real hard to say what was the fastest
The hemi dart was not a factory built car. There was a lot of cars built at the factory that
Would move . but as far as what was the fastest out of the box ??? Depends on who did the testing.
First you could have a killer car and have some one that does not know how to drive it
So you would see this car at the track or on the street and think it was a dog I have seen this far to many times.
As I all ways see it #1 is the driver #2 how well it was tuned # 3 weather conditions
These three factors are just as important as what was under the hood
So what was the fastest ?? Today a dodge 440 can beat a camaro 427
Tomorrow the camaro blows off the 440 . The next day it could be a Buick grand sport or Pontiac gto, and so the debate will go on. I have been to a few factory show downs years ago and the end result was never the same. So what was the fastest
ALL OF THEM /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Norm

[Jeff H]

You also have to remember that a lot of the press cars were "tweaked" to make them look good to potential buyers. I've heard of 383 Mopars that really had 440s in them for the press to test out. I'm sure it's just a rumor though, we know that everybody was playing by the rules back then. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif It's hard to use magazine tests, but I guess there isn't much else unless you have original owner time slips.

[MotownMadman]

The manufactures tweaked lots of things, for example, Pontiacs flagship was the GTO, they wanted the public to believe that to be there quickest car, then along comes the 400 Firebird which was quicker due to less weight. Pontiacs answer? They installed a block on the throttle linkage of the Firebird to stop it from opening all the way, thereby giving the GTO the advantage and Pontiac the ability to continue to claim the goat as there premier musclecar. How many of you guys heard that one before? Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Seattle Sam]

Somehow those elapsed times should be adjusted to account for increased tire and track performance.
For example, that 66 Shelby, at 118 mph, should certainly run somewhere in the 11's.

If you sort that list by MPH, all the cars below should be capable of a sub-thirteen second ET (based on the fact that my full body-full interior 65 Chevelle runs a 12 at 104 mph with my "full body" in it)...Hmm, the thirty fastest production cars - 3 Fords, 10 Chryslers, 14 Chevies, two Ponchos (one with a Chevy motor)and one Buford. That means half of the fastest cars are Chevy powered..not bad!
-Sam

ET
Rank Year Model ET Speed Engine Trans Rear
2 1966 Cobra 12.2 118 427-425, 8V 4 man 3.45
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05 116 V10 450 HP 6 man 3.07
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.8 113.8 350-375 LT5 6 man 3.36
4 1966 L72 Corvette 12.8 112 427-425 4 man 4.10
5 1969 Roadrunner 12.91 111.8 440-390, 6V 4 man 4.10
20 1969 L88 Corvette 13.56 111.1 427-430 auto 3.36
10 1969 ZL1 Camaro 13.16 110.21 427-430 4 man 4.10
11 1997 Corvette 13.2 109.3 350-345 LS1 6 man 3.42
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48 109 426-425 4 man 4.10
12 1997 Camaro Z28 SS 13.2 108.8 350-300 LT4 6 man 3.42
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1 108.488 V10 400 HP 6 man 3.07
14 1968 L71 Corvette 13.3 108 427-435 4 man 3.70
38 1967 L71 Corvette 13.8 108 427-435 4 man 3.55
15 1970 Roadrunner 13.34 107.5 426-425 auto 4.10
27 1964 Polara 500 13.7 107.37 426-365 4 man 3.23
7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.1 107.12 426-425 4 man 3.54
9 1970 LS6 Chevelle SS 13.12 107.01 454-450 4 man 3.55
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.2 107 350-350 6 man 3.54
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46 106.48 350-310 6 man 3.42
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.6 106 429-375 4 man 3.91
33 1971 Cuda 13.72 106 440-390, 6V auto 4.10
37 1968 Firebird 13.79 106 400-335 HO 4 man N/A
24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63 105.9 429-370 SCJ auto 3.91
21 1969 Super Bee 13.56 105.6 440-390, 6V auto 4.10
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38 105.5 455-360 auto 6.34
46 1962 Corvette Fuelie 13.89 105.14 327-360 4 man 4.10
28 1996 Corvette Gran Sport 13.7 105.1 350-330 LT4 6 man 3.45
43 1969 L78 Nova SS 13.87 105.1 396-375 auto 3.55
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65 105 427-425 4 man 4.56
31 1969 Dart 13.71 105 440-375 auto 3.55

[Chevy454]

Sam:

No big deal, just being "picky" I guess, but the '68 Biscayne actually trapped 108, but is always incorrectly listed as 105. Just looking out for another L-72 car! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Seattle Sam]

Thanks Rob, I missed that point earlier, makes the Biscayne the MPH equal of the L71 Corvettes! I'm sure you could get one into the 12's with 10" slicks!
-Sam

[Norm reynolds]

found this on the web muscle car shoot out
http://www.yearone.com/bristolbash/bristol2002/fastshootout.html show what a ZL-1 does with a poor driver /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif

[Norm reynolds]

hrere is some more info
http://www.geocities.com/fadrags/

[COPO PETE]

QUOTE....."Shows what a ZL-1 camaro does with a poor driver" /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif That's funny!!!.... OUCH TERRY !!!!!!
Peter

[Chevy454]

Bad driver?! YIKES! Not to speak for Terry, but I'm guessing he was having some kind of problems or something on the early run(s)...I even think rain was an issue at that event. Any way, that car has ran 11.4s, and even ran 11.70 at that event...that car will FLY.

[Norm reynolds]

The reason I said a poor driver I saw a video where Terry was a sleep at the light more than once
Very poor reaction time, so I was led to believe he did know how to drive it /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif Maybe He did have problems but my frist reaction was that he was a little slow off the line
Norm
/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[shor]

Look at his mph on that run....96 or 98 something happened...maybe rain
in his other runs, in this issue of hot rod, his mph is more like 121 /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif that got him an 11.48
Don't worry, I am sure COPO Pete should have some numbers for us in no time in his "new" zl1 /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Chevy454]

"new zl1"...? Do tell!

[shor]

link (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=27556&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[Chevy454]

Nice...should have finished reading before I posted!

[redline]

If you want to say Hemi dart/Cuda, then ya, it's a toss-up on whether you can consider them 'Factory Built'.

But the 1965 A990 Hemi Coronets and Belvederes came down the assembly line, and produced 11.09/125mph.

Read more about them here: 1965 A990's Bevedere and Coronet (http://www.homestead.com/REDLINEHOMEPAGE/A990.html)

Any Hemi car that was not equipped with the Factory Crossram race hemi cannot be considered a contender. The inline dual quad motored cars were a much milder version (street hemi) than it's previous cars.

[JoeC]

Found a pic of new Hemi Darts and Barracudas. It was built by a vendor to race in Super Stock and was sold as an unfinished race car with narrow tires just for shipping. I don't think it would run in the 12s in the as delivered condition but it is not really a factory built car. The ZL1 Camaros were also built for Super Stock but were sold as a complete car. I would vote for the ZL1 Corvette as the quickest car to leave a real factory assembly line. (for the old school cars)

[Chevy454]

Was the 11.09@125mph done through the stock exhaust and on the skinnies? Didn't they still come with regular exhaust installed?

[JoeC]

According to one article the Hemi Dart came with headers but it does not day if there was any mufflers or exhaust pipe.

[MotownMadman]

No mufflers or exhaust. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Chevy454]

Was it the WO/RO Hemi cars that got a crappy single exhaust wired up in anticipation of adding headers? I heard this rumor on both the WO/RO and Hurst/Hemi cars (possibly neither?), but I'm not up on my Mopar trivia like I need to be!

[JoeC]

I found an ad from 1974 listing the Motion 9 sec Vega. This had to be one of the most outrageous cars ever offered for sale to the general public. It was not long after this ad appeared that the Feds came in to the Motion garage to look around.

[MikeA]

Does anyone have an opinion regarding the 1970 Buick GS, 455 Stage 1? I have been told that this Buick was fastest muscle car produced /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif . I have had numerous debates regarding this issue! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Norm reynolds]

Mike I forgot all about the buick GS stage 1 I think you are right you normally you do not think of a buick as a muscle car
As far as how it was right out of the box the 455 stage 1 was rated at 350 Hp @ 4600 but had a wopping 510 ft lbs of torque /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif Buick had planed a stage II only a few were built before Gm cancelled them It was said that the stage II could run the Ü mile around 10.90 at 121 mph /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif . I do not known if there are any of them around today ?? I would think that would be real rare /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
Also lets not forget AMCs 1970 reble with a 390 @340hp with 430 ft lbs of torque

[MikeA]

It is my undersatnding that only one ,or maybe two, Stages IIs were made. I don't know too much about them. A friend of mine has an article on the Stage IIs that he is going to give me and hopefully it will give me some good information on these cars.

[Norm reynolds]

Mike
All I can find right now is there was around 50 stage II heads built
Not to say how many engines were really built It would be
Real interesting to find out /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Norm reynolds]

Found more info StageII was a over the counter package only No production cars built as a stageII The heart of the stage II was the cam 455 in 480 ex with 455 in and 480 ex duration An aluminum intake with a 850 cfm Holley on top The big thing was the heads
With redesigned ports good for an extra 50hp
http://216.136.200.194/auction/Jan/2003126511992413343548.jpg

[MotownMadman]

Renoylds, At one time I owned Amc's Rebel "The Machine", The owners manual claimed 14 second quarter mile times, which the car would do. Lets also not forget the AMX with the GO PACK in 1969.
Motown. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Belair62]

Those Machines are scarce these days MM....

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Here's one;

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/0/0/37390600.htm

[MotownMadman]

Belair, Are you interested in one of the rebel "Machines"? I know where two are that could be bought, one traditional red/white/blue. Rough needing complete resto but complete #s matching, and another with the rare copper color that is a solid southern car with frame on at home resto but #s matching. I believe they could both be had reasonable, depending on the mood of the owners that day. I sold one last year on Ebay, body only X-race car, only had 6700 actual miles,(1/4 at a time) nice original body though, brought $5500.00. Let me know if you want a rambler in your garage and I will go shoot a pic of the white one,(sitting next to a garage for 10 years) and forward it to you with owners #. Motown. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Belair62]

Slow down..I only said they were scarce !!! I didn't say I wanted to breed a new strain !!! Seriously....nice looking cars...the blue one Marlin posted is neat...they are really a good looking car in the 3/4 rear view. Was the r/w/b paint scheme similar to the SC/Rambler ?

[Norm reynolds]

Heres a go package
http://www.cars-on-line.com/69amx2620.html

[Norm reynolds]

kevin has one
http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/other/69AMX/index.htm

[copo9566aa]

And for the 66 & 67 Fairlane (http://www.sd455.com/fairlane.htm) 427 and the 68 Mustang (http://www.428cobrajet.com/aq-0798.html)
cobra jet lightweight. /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif

[Seattle Sam]

If it checks out, this may be the only car out there that could claim to be a Buick GS "Stage II"...

http://www.highway-one.com/Classifieds/Buick/JohnsonBuick.html

...unfortunately, the ad appears to be three years old!

-Sam

[Norm reynolds]

10.32/128 mph 600 hp now that IS a super car
. A year to late by 1970 between the insurance co and the epa it was dead before it took off Can of puts it in the same categories as a ZL-1 I wonder what that car would be worth today as it would be more rare than a ZL-1 and if it was the only one prototype /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[MotownMadman]

Marlin, the "Rebel Machine" you linked to is another rare color as most were Red/White/Blue, the one pictured has an incorrect standard Rebel grille as with or without the patriotic color scheme the grille lacked the center T-bars. If they were white the R/W/B was included in the grille as well as the center armrest. I am adding a link to a photo from an original ad, the marketing was a kick as one phrase states, "For instance, it is not as fast on the getaway as a 427 Corvette, or a Hemi, but it is faster on the getaway than a Volkswagen, a slow freight train, and your old mans Cadillac." It seems I remember this was possibly another Hurst prepared car, or it may have been its predecessor, the Rambler Scrambler from 1969. Ohhh....the memories of Detroit that leave a odd legacy. Motown /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

http://www.boomspeed.com/ezmatt/Dsc00435.jpg

[hvychev]

I love those SC/Ramblers! I have one on on my "cars to aquire list"! /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[Norm reynolds]

http://216.136.200.194/auction/Jan/2003137964964890348949.jpg

[Norm reynolds]

http://216.136.200.194/auction/Jan/2003132368864454043725.jpg

[Norm reynolds]

http://216.136.200.194/auction/Jan/2003133161516087803891.jpg