Yenko Clone Made From X-33????

[MotownMadman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2409233159&category=61 61

Now things are really getting goofy. With all the money obviously put in this car, would it not bring more money restored as the Z-28 it really is? A nice Z is bringing 20 to 35 thousand, I sure it would have cost the same or less to restore it back to original....did I miss something or has everyone gone MAD on this Yenko clone thing! Next thing ya know we are going to see one of the original ZL-1 cars made into a yenko clone! I just dont get it...some people are building Z-28 clones, and others are taking real Z-28's and making them into a copy of a different car? I am suprised the cowl tag is not on Ebay and an X-44 tag rivited to the firewall of this one. What the heck is going on? Mad Clone Disease? Who's on first, and whats on second?
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[olredalert]

Matt,

-------I tend to think about repros a little differently.Most of these clones have been out there(with the exception of the Canadian ones)for quite awhile.The original guys who built the clones probably didnt do them for monetary return.They built them because they couldnt afford the real thing and as a sort of tribute to Don Yenko.They are only out on the market now because they can sell them for so much!
-------This car sounds as though it has existed for quite awhile as it appears today.At the time it was built the builder most likely didnt care that he was starting with an original Z-car.He knew he loved the look and idea of the ground pounding Yenko Camaro and simply wanted to emulate that.If he was truly trying to dupe somebody he certainly could have done a much better job of it.Now the very fact that it looks a bit like an original car seemingly makes it worth what its worth.To make it back into a Z-28 just to sell it obviously wouldnt be cost effective.Hes lucky he chose to emulate a Yenko as opposed to just putting a custom paint job on his car as it would only bring about $10000 in that case..........Bill S

[sYc]

I beg to differ. The majority of the clones are a tribute to no one, except to some one's pocket book. Look at Ebay, Autotrader, etc., the large number of these cars for sale, most newer "creations". Slap a couple of stripes and emblems on the side and jack the price. Most do not care if it is "correct" or not, they are after a quick buck. And, this board is not helping. As long as we acknowldge them on this board, we are only hurting ourselves. The sYc was established to preserve and promote the supercars. To bring the exposure and recognition these cars deserve. Lets get back to that purpose. Nothing against the clones, but let's do our thing and let them do theirs. They need us, not the other way around.

[olredalert]

Tom,

--------With Yenko Camaros at somewhere around /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif $135,000 on E-bay the last time I looked,it appears the Registry has done a fine job of promotion,and exposure!!!!!!!.........Bill S

[Jeff H]

I agree Bill. The prices on the rarest, top of the line high performance Camaros has gotten so ridiculous that most people can only dream to even build a clone. Plus the fact that a lot of the classic insurance companies won't cover your car if you're caught drag racing it or driving it and leaving it unattended somewhere, the clone is a great alternative. I'm already worried about driving my JL8 car when it's done because I'll have so much into it. If I can get back my money if I need to sell the car for personal reasons I'd be real happy. I'd take one of those $35K clones in a heartbeat. Fortunately, I barely have enough money to buy myself food so another Camaro is out of the question.

[MotownMadman]

I really dont have a problem with clone cars as long as they are represented that way and not as originals. If anything, as far as the market goes, clones have probably made the real thing more valuable. With the limited amount of real cars of which many never make it out of the garage, the clones have brought attention to the real thing by being seen and causing the average guy with a life to ask questions as to the origins of Yenko and what it means. Twenty years ago very few people had any idea what a Yenko is and many still dont. The clones are a form of advertisment that makes the real ones all the more desireable. I just found it a bit odd that someone would start with a Z-28 to build a Yenko clone when a base car would be a more economical way to start. But as Bill said, this clone has been around long enough that when the owner built it a Z-28 was not that big of a deal. For those who always wanted a Yenko but cant afford one it is a common sense way to go, but I am a bit concerned with the mass production of them by one company using the Yenko name without permission. If the company is making a profit using the Yenko name then some of the profits should go to Don's family out of respect of his lifetime accomplishment of turning his dream into a reality for all of us to enjoy for many more years to come. If the clones being made by one company now who is numbering them are making money, then at least have the courtesy of getting permission to use the name as Tom and Rob have done here with this site. I am sure the clones would not have the same value if they had the name of the producing companies owner on them as in say "Smith" Anybody want to buy a "Smith" Camaro? It took Don years any many tight times to build his car into a legend, it just rubs me a bit the wrong way that money is being made off his ideas and work on cars he had nothing to do with. If someone chooses to build a Yenko clone in their own garage for their own enjoyment and not with the idea of turning a profit, well that is a different matter as it could be seen as a way of paying tribute or wanting to enjoy the legacy when the individual may not have 150K to throw down. A company manufacturing them would give some people the opportunity to own a tribute to the legend if they could not do the work themselves. That too would be somewhat politically correct as long as it was being done with the blessing of the family. Otherwise it compares to the value of a car increasing simply because at one time Reggies name was on the title. The other problem with a clone car is if it has not been built in the correct manner as the originals it can become something that shows disrespect and degrades the originals. But, once again, just as the rebody issue, this is a great country that gives us freedom of expression and opinion. our boys are fighting and dying as I type to protect that right, so what you drive, and what you buy, and how you feel about it is each of our's own right, I am sure all do not agree with my thoughts on this, I may not agree with the opposing point of view on this issue but the beauty is at least we have the right to our opinions and the right to disagree. God bless our soldiers and may they all come home well.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[sYc]

Matt; Having been directly involved with the supercars for the past several years, I recall things a little different. Clones are not responsible for the recent popularity and value of the supercars.

In the late '80s to early '90s, the supercars were very popular and demanding big bucks. Then, in the mid '90s, the trend changed, values dropped and the cars were bascilly "put away". There was a small group of enthusiants who were quitely working behind the scenes, Brian, Marlin, Ed, etc, who were keeping busy tracking and documenting these cars. In 1997, at the national shows, USCC, ICC, NCOA, and even Super Chevy, it was rare to see more then 1 or 2 documented supercars attending. Clones were few and far between. Why, evidently exposure. You see, in 1998 the sYc was born, and along with it, this web page. And with the help of Cliff Ernst and Brian Henderson, a show was planned that would be like no other. Non-judged, with a cruise, drag racing, and most important, for documented supercars. Thus, the first ever Yenko Reunion. Each of us got on the phone and called some of our friends to coax them into bringing their supercar. Thankfully several of them did, 20+ in all. I will never forget what Ray Morrison told me a couple of weeks after the event. "I only attended because of our friendship. I thought there would only be a handful of cars attending." Now, to the exposure point. The event was featured on My Classic Car TV and full color articles in both Muscle car Review and Super Chevy. That's was all it took. SCR2 had over 45 documented cars in attendance. The sYc was receiving requests from most of the major musclecar shows wanting it to become a part of their event. Supercars were once again being used as magazine cover cars. When our Yenko Camaro was featured on the cover doing a burnout at the Pure Stock Drags, Muscle Car Review reported its largest sales ever. Other supercar shows and showcases were started, such as the Gibb show. Supercar owners and their cars were once again out in the public. TV shows, scale model diecast makers, supercar owners and people once associated with the supercars were now contacting us. As the sYc grew, so did the hobby, to the point where both the sYc and the supercar hobby are today, second to none. And, with this renewed popularity and major increase in values of documented supercars, came the influx of clones. The clones exist because of of us, not the other way around.

And, when I say us, I mean ALL of the dedicated members of the sYc. With out them, the supercar hobby would not be where it is today. To them, I say thanks for your past, and hopefully continued support. Together we made it happen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[55chevy]

Exactly Tom. Simply put, without the real thing, there would be no clones.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Ed

[MotownMadman]

Tom,
It seems like I said something similar on the other thread, I too at my age tend to wander aimlessly from time to time. I also remember the chain of events that led to what I call the Woodward Avenue crash rather then the Wall St crash. When muscle car collecting and investing took off in the Mid Eighties it was a mad scramble by everyone interested to collect as much and as many possible. That single growth boom event is what caused a equally rapid demise in the market. At the beginning of the boom just about anything that could be considered a musclecar was being rounded up, restored, collected, and inflated. The problem began when reality hit home that about every garage or barn in America held some type of musclecar, so that being the case over a rather short period of time the market flooded itself whereas supply began to exceed demand. The mistake made by many, including myself, which caused a great deal of money lost was the fact that many if not a majority of the muscle cars being found, restored, and collected were low to mid level cars in the area or rarity. Being a rather new investment market to a majority involved, many mistakes were made, such as collecting cars that had higher production numbers then mom and pops station wagon, added to the fact that nobody was paying the attention they should to correct matching numbers cars, documentation was something that for the most part was had by accident when found in the glovebox, and in the rush to invest and collect many common muscle cars hit price levels that may not happen for another ten or twenty years. That is not to say everyone involved was rushing around with a fistful of money buying every 396 Chevelle or 383 Roadrunner for 30 to 40 thousand, but many were. There were those that by choice, accident, or plain common sense and intellegence were after the elite, the low production, the highly optioned, the ones that never did suffer a major downfall, the ever elusive Supercars. By the time the average collector had figured out what the Yenko's and equivelents were, the majority of the market was dropping like a smart bomb over Baghdad. I was fortunate enough at the time to have a few which helped make up for the losses on the average. Just as in the stock market there were the wise, some of whom you mentioned in your post, and others who chose to remain unknown as they do today without ever being in attendence at a major event, the wise held out with the cars that were not flooding the market, the ones that were not in every garage in America, so when the pendulum swung the opposite way back to an investors market again a whole new chase was on, the chase for the cars we here either own or dream of owning. Difference this time around? Not enough out there to flood the market. At the reunions it may seem that there are many available due to the quantity in one place, and TV and magazines brought this to bear for the average guy, but when everone goes home from the reunion's these elite cars are few and far betwwen in comparison to the average. So, like a snowball going downhill the opposite happens as the first time around, supply cant meet demand and away we go. Now there are a lot of people who want one that cant be found or for the most part cant be afforded, so here come the clones, which further advertises the real thing and adds to the mystique. The average guy at that time has a hard time knowing a real from a clone so overnight it becomes an affordable way for John Q to have a Yenko. So the big $$$ question, does that hurt or help the value of the real thing? I would tend to think it adds to the value through advertisment, and on a physiological level the public begins to come to the conclusion that if they are being copied they have to be extremely rare and valuable. The clones would most definetly hurt the market if we had no way to document the real thing as with say a 69 Z-28 for example, without documentation the market would be hesitant and cautious on spending big bucks on a maybe. Take two 69 Z-28's of early production with no X code's, one has passed down documentation and one has none, even though they are both real the documented car has a much greater value. The clones? Help the market? I believe so for the reasons stated, but what really brought the market to the level now is the guys like yourself and Ed and Kurt and Marlin and everyone else on this site and off who have spent countless hours of research giving these cars a undisputable pedigree. Without the determination of the serious minded Supercar enthusiust, the clones would create a world of hurt to the market, but considering they are not real and never will be, the site of a clone ripping up and down Woodward avenue may be all it takes to bring a new player into the market, thereby adding once again to the demand side of the scale which is only balanced by adding the weight of money to the other side. Personally as I stated, I would rather not see the clones, not for reasons of a threat to the real market, but rather for the reasons you mentioned over on the other half of this wandering thread, the fact that the family that made it all possible is getting screwed. If not for that then it really wouldnt matter, the owner of a Picasso is no way bothered by the obvious undocumented fake. So Tom, the credit for the hobby as it is today goes to the guys who devoted a great deal of their life protecting the integrity of the hobby, guys like Ed Cunneen who have spent countless hours buried in books and paperwork, guys like yourself who opened this arena for the education, debate, and unbending devotion to something that is truly believed in, guys like Kurt who recite part numbers from memory, and to all the regular guys who may not own a Supercar but hang out anyway taking in all the education and advice they can get for the day they will own one. What are they worth? I think Jim M. put it best in a conversation we had recently in discussing the value of these Supercars, he explained "take the cars weight and multiply it by the price of scrap steel, there is the value. Real worth is what someone is willing to pay for Bragging Rights" Obviously that is a bit extreme, but when comparing the real to the fake the difference becomes pedigree where you can hold your head high Tom, while the owner of the clone car parked next to yours may be nowhere to be found. One of the real downsides to a clone for me over and above the legal and moral issues is the fact that because the real is so rare and desired it has the effect of taking your breath away for a moment, whereas if it comes to the point of 500 imposters racing around Detroit then the effect is diminished when the real deal pulls up alongside. Will The Real Yenko Please Rev Up! My hats off to all you guys that have made this hobby what it is...Real!
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Motown for President ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Tommy_Mathison]

motown, you gotta write a book /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Jeff H]

He has, he just keeps putting bits and pieces of it all over the place for us to read! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MotownMadman]

Gentlemen, I am truly flattered but I am no writer. To understand you must realize I transported myself from the city so my sons could attend a school without metal detectors, by moving to a small country town of less then 1000 people I yearn for intellegent conversation which I can only find here. I live in a world where intellengent conversation is taken to the limit with the use of the words budweiser, pick-up, and doublewide, and some of the fastest street machines in the area are Amish buggies. My parental instincts for my childrens survival has caused me to be trapped by my own devices, the two lane country road I now live on is a far cry from my roots on Woodward Ave, if it were not for this site and a very large phone bill to stimulate my mind I believe the only book I could write would be the sequel to "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest". This site provides me with access to the educated world of this hobby, if you guys remember the photo I posted of my 61 Apache Pro Street Farm Truck, I used that truck in an futile effort to fit in my new surroundings, needless to say it was a wasted effort as some of the locals believed the wheelie bars to be some type of three point hitch. So thank you all for keeping my awareness to the fact that there is life after the kids leave High School.
Thanks,
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Belair62]

MM....smart move for the kids...it's just a shame how fast they learn some crappy stuff...it seems keeping them alive is actually a major challenge these days...so many wackos out there...

[Tommy_Mathison]

or a stand up comedian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif but seriously motown, i stop and read EVERY one of your posts just because i think its makes me that much smarter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MotownMadman]

Someday I may decide what I want to be when I grow up, nothing ever really changed, the model car kits just got bigger, and the really fun stuff, the glue, now comes in gallon cans and it's called paint!
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[JoeC]

[ QUOTE ]
What the heck is going on? Mad Clone Disease?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the above type of writing I think you may have a career in Holley Wood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif