EARNHARDT INTIMIDATOR SS

[chevycopo]

Would this car be a good collector investment?
Does anyone know what they are worth or bringing these days?? How many were made?
I would very much appreciate some feedback.
Please and Thank you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[chevycopo]

Would I be better off hanging on to my 69 RS SS X22 4sp? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
The Intimidator is almost as pretty as my 69. I'm thinking it would be just as good of an investment if not better.
Please....somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like I'm about ready to do something I'll regret.
Thanks again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[COPO]

IMHO, keep the '69 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I would second that!

[chevycopo]

OK...THAT'S ONE FOR THE 69.
THANK YOU. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[chevycopo]

OK..THATS TWO FOR THE 69.
THANK YOU!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[JChlupsa]

keep the 69

[chevycopo]

Well thats "3" for the 69..."0" for the Intimidator.
Coming from the Hawaiian Camaro thats definite food for thought.
Thanks Jeff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[chevycopo]

[ QUOTE ]
keep the 69

[/ QUOTE ]Jeff..I owe you some jpegs of the hugger orange RS SS. I'll send them when I get home tonight. I'm at work, they have kicked me off the net 3x..I better get off for the day.
Thanks again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Allen]

My opinion, and it's worth every bit of the price paid for that opinion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif , is to keep the '69. There is that nostalgic and "wow" factor of seeing one. It gets attention, it's not current, and people can relate to it in one way or another - either with memories or stories or knowing people that had something like that. All those things add more value and fun above an "investment" in my opinion.

[chevycopo]

Come on late model guys.
Lets have some controversy here. I have my mind about 90% made up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[JChlupsa]

If you get rid of the 69 X22 car pick up a 68 BB Car that way you have one of each year 67/68 & 69
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[chevycopo]

ALLEN....YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
THANKS FOR REMINDING ME.
I'LL BE 54 IN JUNE. IF ONLY THAT 69 COULD TALK.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A 98 + LS1 THOUGH. I DROVE AN 02 SS..VERY NICE INDEED!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[chevycopo]

I'VE BEEN WORKING ON A 68 RS FOR 2 YRS. HE WON'T LET GO.
SO THE THOUGHT HAS CROSSED MY MIND.
THANKS AGAIN JEFF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[82z96ss]

There have been several Intimitors on ebay for 50 and up. I love the car but not a big enough NASCAR fan to care about the nostalga (sp?) of having an Earnhart car. As far as collectablity, it will be a collector for a racing fan in my opinion and nothing more. But I could be wrong. The ones that have been on ebay never hit the reserves, if that matters.

As far as late model camaros the LS1 is the most awesome motor I have had the pleasure to drive and modify. I true beast. I love modern technology though.

With all that said stick with the 69. Or get a Berger SS.

[CamaroGib]

I have both a 69 camaro & an Intimidator SS. Keep in mind only 83 of the Intimidator were built. Every time I have it out I get lots of thumbs up and always starts a conversation. I feel it will surely be a collector car of the future. As far as getting rid of your 69 to buy one, thats a tough call.

[Stefano]

Forget which one is a better "Investment" and keep the one (if you can only keep one) which will provide more enjoyment and better quality of life. Just my free advise.

[Tommy_Mathison]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget which one is a better "Investment" and keep the one (if you can only keep one) which will provide more enjoyment and better quality of life. Just my free advise.

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Belair62]

You are definitely mellowing Stefano!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget which one is a better "Investment" and keep the one (if you can only keep one) which will provide more enjoyment and better quality of life. Just my free advise.

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN!............................

I own the #38 Intimidator and a couple of very nice 1st. generation Z28s. I drove my Intimidator from Earnhardt Chevy to Floyd Garrett's, at times hitting 120 MPH + with the A/C and CD player on. Try doing that with a 67-9 COPO. You don't have to be a NASCAR fan to appreciate late model muscle cars.

Investment you ask?...... 83 Intimidators were built in 01. They are unique and no more will be built according to Ms. Teresa Earnhardt.

Pose this question to Bill Porterfield and Dennis Barker about the GMMG and Earnhardt cars. They may provide a different prospective.

[berger21]

Didn't Berger have one they auctioned off last year and got around 75K for it?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Stefano,
Well said! Are we agreeing again, oh no, we'll have to do something about that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't Berger have one they auctioned off last year and got around 75K for it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know they sold it last fall, but didn't hear the $$ amount.

[Stefano]

Marlin,
All I can say is, that my car is quicker than yours /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Yea, but mine is nicer looking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
And, you're ugly and your mama dresses you funny /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Belair62]

I don't want to get in the middle of this love fest !! http://www.ls1.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrinangelA.gif

[NCGuy68]

You Forum Leaders crack me up (grinning) and I know its all in good fun.

Belair62 has it right. The LS1 and LS6 motors are the logical 'step-up' from GM in the last 30 years. They make great power at a reasonable price bone stock. Even Chrysler has raised the bar with the introduction of the 'new' Hemi. The muscle car wars of the 60s' could be heating up again.

I enjoy and appreciate the 60s-70s cars as much as anyone. However, I'am intrigued with the potential of the LS1 based cars.

Any other thoughts on this?

[Chevy454]

The LS1 based powerplants are nice, except for 1 thing: the piston knock. That's the one thing where GM really stepped in it, and I get a good taste of it daily/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif. Other than that, they are EXCELLENT engines.

[CWilliams]

Weight to horsepower ratio with the LS1 is where it shines. I've got an '01 and haven't really noticed any knock but.

[Chevy454]

It seems like the piston knock is a hit or miss kind of deal. Mine has it, my brothers doesn't...2 others in town, they don't have it, but one of those 2 owners had a previous car that did.

Oh, and I forgot...tranny problems. Any of you LS-1 guys ran into that? It blows my mind how the Vipers and ZO6 cars have no problems with the T-56 (yeah, they get different ratios and forks/synchros) yet a LOT of the F-body guys run into trouble (my car is on it's 3rd!). Kind of makes me wonder how the T-56 will EVER live behind some of the ZL-1 cars...

[COPO PETE]

Rob, Run some amsoil in the old girl. I bet the piston knock goes away!
Peter

[CWilliams]

You guys want to get the skinny on oil, check out this site.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

All you ever wanted to know about oil, filters, etc. but were afraid to ask!

[NCGuy68]

Good observation Rob...the piston slap issue is much debated as we speak. Seems that GM overbored a few # 1 and # 8 cylinders during production because of wore tooling that the CNC machine limits didn't see. Actual cases of true piston slap are in the minority.

However, in late 01, GM began coating the pistons with a polymer to arrest any further piston noise problems. Most 2002 LS1/LS6 owners report no problems.

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
Rob, Run some amsoil in the old girl. I bet the piston knock goes away!
Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Pete......been running Amsoil for years in all my cars including the race cars. Never had a oil related problem.

[GMMG_Murphy]

I have to say that your investment in an Intimidator SS would be worth it, but first . . . what is your X22 4-spd Camaro ??? i.e., engine?, current condition?, paperwork/originality?, etc. Give us more info . . . I own Camaros from all 4 generations and have to say that the Intimidator SS, is one of my favorites. If your car is a COPO, it would be hard to pass it on for anything, but the Intimidator SS will get you more comments at shows than a '69 Camaro. It will probably be the only Intimidator SS there and one of many '69's. Again, give me more info on your car . . .

I agree Matt. I had people coming to my house I did not even know to look at the earnhardt car. The ZL-1 is getting even more attention. I kept it in the showroom of my local chevy dealership for a week and the owner told me it was the most fun he has ever had in a week. The GMMG cars seem to appeal to a broader crowd. Not too many cars are worth substantially more than you paid the second they are driven off of the lot. I love the old iron as well, but when you have "the only one" at a carshow, it seems to draw people. Tom, Rob, how about a new GMMG section?

[moparts]

Hate to bring this up Rob but didn't your piston knock start at the drag strip after your wide open throttle shift from 3rd to 2nd? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif (couldn't get the burnout smiley to do it backwards) "O" and isn't most of the tranny problem got to do with the shift knob comming off in your hand? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[CWilliams]

Good point Matt! Glad to see you chime in here. I've had lots of people come to my house just to see my Berger, then they bring a friend back, then another. Same situation at a show. Bristol Bash- Only Berger there! It's great! Matt- hope to see you Friday.

Hey Matt, what does that "big block" '67 you have run on? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[82z96ss]

CWilliams I'll be there Saturday. WOuld love to see your Berger there.

My Brother n Laws 02 35th Ann. SS has the knock, and my cousins 00 SS has had 2 or 3 trannies so far. My 96 SS, I believe it has the T56 in it, tranny seems to be bullet proof. Many a time it has endured down shifts when accelerating /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif and never been in the shop for the tranny or rear end. Knock on wood that continues with the ZL1.

[Chevy454]

Mo:

You just HAD to chime in! Yeah, the 3-2 shift wasn't one of my "brighter" moments, but the tranny and knock were there LONG before I came along!

It seems that if the car doesn't knock or have tranny problems in the first few thousand miles, that you are generally "ok". I've personally seen and been in BRAND NEW F-bodies that have had tranny problems and engine noise. The tranny problems ranged from notchy between the gears to darn near impossible to get in reverse...of course the dealers didn't notice anything wrong. Uh huh, riiiight.

If I'm not mistaken, and Murphy or Barker could probably tell better than me, but I "believe" the ZO6/Viper T-56's get steel vs. aluminum forks, and they also got beefier synchros (along with a slightly different gear set). Did the ZL-1 cars get the "standard" T-56?

[mc25t190]

got my ZL1 , 2002 version, GMMG prepared, the fastest car i have ever sat in. it made me pull out the yellow 69 yenko, racing engine built by yenko, to compare. both are fast as you know what and each unique, 69 raw power, 02 raw power. the 69 blisters the tires, the 02 also with wider tires. the best way to describe the 02 is big block power small block torque if that makes sense! love em both!

[NCGuy68]

It's my understanding that the ZO6 cars got the upgraded tranns as you describe. I'am trying to confirm that at this time. All of the F-body T-56s that I've personaly seen are coded T-Tremec Mexico.

I have the factory Hurst shifter in my 00 SS Camaro. I installed a "Lou's Short Stick" handle only and eliminated my shifting problems. It does away with the rubber isolator between the handle and shifter. I can now power shift any gear with confidence.

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
got my ZL1 , 2002 version, GMMG prepared, the fastest car i have ever sat in. it made me pull out the yellow 69 yenko, racing engine built by yenko, to compare. both are fast as you know what and each unique, 69 raw power, 02 raw power. the 69 blisters the tires, the 02 also with wider tires. the best way to describe the 02 is big block power small block torque if that makes sense! love em both!

[/ QUOTE ]

Go for it Kevin!!....and enjoy ALL of your cars.

[GMMG_Murphy]

Hey, I finally found the time to join this great site. This is my second post and I have been to this site a hundred times, just been busy building a few Camaros. Love it . . . and look forward to answering some of your questions . . ./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Cheers from this Irishman.

All cars have little glitches, Some people call it character, I call it Murphy's Law. Anyway, The cars we have been building have stock F-body trannys in them. I am not worried, neither are our GM counterparts. They will honor all powertrain warranties, even if you have the Phase 2 or 3 engine packages. Obviously, they will look at what is wrong and what caused it. They will probably call us if it is a Phase 3 - 427, but between the two of us, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

All of our employees drive these fourth gen F-bodies and run them through the ringer with the latest and greatest high performance stuff available. It is amazing to see how well these cars hold up to 500, and 600 plus HP and TQ. Both Mike and Ron from GMMG took their Camaros to a Mustang shootout at a dragstrip, and for fun, the mustang guys allowed some Camaros in to show them how fast their fords were. Ron made it to the final round between the two fastest cars there, and took on the baddest mustang out there with his 2000 Camaro and ripped a 10.84 and beat the Mustang by 2 car lengths. It is his daily driver with Nitrous and has a stock rear end and tranny. He is making it now a serious Drag car by putting a 12 bolt in it and shooting for 700HP.

Anyone can abuse their cars and trash them, but if you treat it like it should be, and don't get me wrong, my guys are not easy on their cars, but it is taking care of your vehicle/investment and treating it like it is yours (not GM's, just because it has a warranty), and you will find that it will take some serious abuse, or fun as we call it.

All of our cars are built to have fun in and if you choose to collect them, sell or trade them, well . . ., I added some spice to them for that as well. Dale Earnhardt was a serious gear head, car nut. He told me that Don Yenko was the reason he wanted to buy a Chevy Dealership. For years he wanted to build cars like Don did and he finally got his business, Dale Earnhardt Inc., running on it's own, so he could enjoy some other fun stuff, like driving the C5R Corvettes, and his dream (and mine) finally came true when he hooked up with GMMG, to build HIS dream Camaro, the Intimidator SS. He told me that he was tired of those Jack Roush Mustangs, coming over to his shop and doing a little wheel squeel and running back to the Roush shop. Dale wanted a car of his own that he could drive and sell to others that would enjoy the ride like he did. He did plan to take his car (Intimidator #3) over to the Roush shop when he got it and do a hell of a burnout in front of Jack's shop and then proudly stroll back down the road (He died a week or so before the first group of numbered cars were shipped, but Teresa told me that she was going to go over to Roush's shop to do the burnout for Dale in his car). Dale even challenged Jack to bring out his Stage 3 Roush Mustang so he could kick his butt with his stock Intimidator SS, with 381HP (that's the three cars he owned - #3 Busch car, #8 Junior's car and #1 Park's car). He was amazing to work with, and the ZL1 concept was built by me as a B4C police car because Dale wanted it that way. He reminded me that the police cars back then came out of the COPO department as well.

I had the Prototype ZL1 car in Daytona for the Rolex 24hr weekend and showed it to Dale. He said, "I want 50 of these!!" I told him we were going to make only 69, and his exact words were, "Fred Gibb ordered 50 ZL1's in '69 and I want 50!!" "OK, Dale . . . Not a problem, I said." He died a week later.

Ironically, for him, almost 35 of the 69 cars were allocated from his dealership as Berger and Tom Henry didn't have enough allocation for the Camaros. In fact all of the Berger ZL1's except I think 3, have Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet on the GM sticker, instead of Berger Chevy. It is hard to imagine what would have been, if he was still alive, at least for this ZL1 project, because he was VERY interested and knowledgeable of the Supercars from the 60's and early 70's, and a huge fan of Yenko, Berger, Baldwin Motion, Fred Gibb, Etc.

SOOOOO, there is much more to the Intimidator SS cars than just a few badges, stickers and some serious HP added. The man behind those cars was one of US. He told me that he wanted to see these cars being driven by their owners, and those of you that have one, know how awesome they are. Dale also said that if the magazines wanted to do an article on the Intimidator SS and the Berger SS cars, both past and present, that he would hold his own with both Matt and Dale Berger, because he would be able to talk about the old cars and speak for his hero Don Yenko and for the new cars talk about the new Intimidator SS. Like I said, SOOOOO sad that he is gone . . .

[CWilliams]

Awesome story Matt! Thanks to Dale and to you as well, if not for you, who knows. You've done an incredible amount in such a short period.....history in the making for sure!

[CWilliams]

82z96ss- Are you talking about being at Year One on Saturday? My Brother and I are delivering a '55 Chevy to Milt Robson on Thursday or Friday, thats what I was talking about.

[82z96ss]

nope I was talking about being at GMMG. Picking up my Z this weekend.

Thanks for the post Matt, now go fix my car! Just Joking.
I didn't realize he carried so much history behind the cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[JoeC]

Matt, were you at the GM Nationals Carlisle show? I heard this same story there about Dale E. It was during a seminar with some people from GM and they took some questions from the audience. I was the guy who stood up and asked why Chevy didn't build a 427 car using the C5R engine. He said there were too many problems getting certification for it. I said that I thought it could be done since the Viper and some import supercars were over 500 hp. He said they were "Halo" cars and GM didn't want to build cars like that. I was thinking he just didn't get it.
A 2003 427 Corvette would have been a great 50 anniversary Corvette special edition. GM is getting blown away buy Viper and Ford in the supercar market. I later heard that Dale E was thinking of building a special edition 427 Corvette street car similar to the C5R race car he drove.
Did Dale E. ever mention anything to you about building a 427 2003 Corvette?

[berger21]

Matt, what does GMMG stand for. Go Matt Murphy Go?

[GMMG_Murphy]

Yes, I was in on that discussion at Carlisle and on the stage with the GM guys. We (GMMG) thought about doing an emission legal 427 but the expense and small cam needed to get it to pass would have you a $25K motor making the same HP as a cylinder head & cam shaft LS1 or LS6. To me, these 427's, for the cost, have to be making 600HP and close to that in TQ. Not sure what GM is doing or thinking about using a 427 in a factory Corvette. They sell it through GM Performance Parts and the Corvette, I think, will get a new motor in the next gen and the LS6 will be standard.

GM did not make a long term casting for the 427 so that is a major reason why it is so expensive. I did talk with Dale in length about doing more dealer built cars for him and his dealership. The Camaro was going to be the first in a line of Dale Earnhardt Specialty vehicles. At the time he was driving the C5R Corvette, the 427 was a mystery motor and no one knew much at all about it. Katech decided to sell it and that is how we got involved in building them. We can thank Charlie Lillard, Bill Porterfield, and Kevin Suydam for pushing me to build these cars with the 427 as an option.

GMMG's name came from two last names - George and Murphy and Motorsports Group. But it is legally listed as GMMG, Inc. Someone said you should tell people that it means "Give Me More Gusto." Well, I need to get back to work . . . we delivered ZL1's # 52 and 40 today and #62 and 46 are going this weekend. So far 39 have been delivered. Most of the rest will go this month.

[Stefano]

Matt,
Thanks,Very cool info.

[NCGuy68]

Matt,

Thanks for the info about the 427 block. It was my understanding that this was the block used by the GM "Vette" race teams. What other engine components make a '427' in your view?

Thanks for your reply.

[MarkJack66]

Matt, My dad and I were huge DE Sr. fans, too. I lost my dad a year before Dale died, and when Dale died I lost another small part of my dad then as well. Thanks for the story, I always just knew he was a cool guy and you confirmed it. I loved to watch him race, and although I didn't always agree with all of his moves, lol, he did make it exciting. Thanks again for the great story, and Rest in Peace Big E.
Mark.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
I have the factory Hurst shifter in my 00 SS Camaro. I installed a "Lou's Short Stick" handle only and eliminated my shifting problems. It does away with the rubber isolator between the handle and shifter. I can now power shift any gear with confidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

My car is also a Hurst car, but I almost wish it wasn't! The "regular" shifter in my brother's SS seems to have a better feel than my Hurst unit.

[hvychev]

Rob I agree with you on the Hurst thing. Our 01 SS also has the Hurst short throw unit as well and I am not that impressed with it.

[NCGuy68]

Rob...Frank,

Try a 'short stick' of your choice and eliminate the rubber. Several sticks are on the market that will give you that 'notchy positive click' just like a 'ole Hurst Competition Plus. Some of the younger hard core drag racers around here like the following:

1. Quick Stick from www.LS1speed.com (http://www.LS1speed.com)

2. T56 Short Handle from www.Spectaclesolutions.com (http://www.Spectaclesolutions.com)

I watched a young local guy at Rockingham with a Quick Stick on a factory Hurst in a 'warmed-over' 01 SS. I could have sworn it was Ronnie Sox himself banging the gears!

The sticks are inexpensive and a breeze to change. I've heard that Hurst/Mr Gasket has a T handle that will screw onto the factory and after-market handles, althought I haven't seen one yet.

Of course, if you still think the factory Hurst sucks, the B&M Ripper and the Pro-5 are popular.

[Seattle Sam]

FWIW, a lot of guys here in the NW ( www.teamnwfbody.org (http://www.teamnwfbody.org) ) have put the B&M Ripper in their fourth gen Camaros, and are happy with its performance.
-Sam