Douglass Yenko Emblem Placement

[Clint_69]

I am currently having my Douglass Yenko restored and I was wondering if anyone has a definitive answer on the placement of Yenko emblems for the Douglass cars? My understanding is that the placement is different from the Cannonsburg Yenkos.

[shor]

. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/37679-jdytraweb.jpg

[shor]

. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/37680-251web.jpg

[shor]

. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/37681-252web.jpg

[Clint_69]

Chris,
Thanks for the post. Do you (are you going to have) the Yenko emblem below the Camaro script on the fenders? Also, did you utilize any 427 emblems? Have you seen other Douglass cars with similar emblem placement as yours? Has Jack commented on the placement?

[Clint_69]

Sorry Chris. I did not look at all of the pictures before I posted. Some questions still apply. Have you seen other Douglass cars and the placement of emblems? Has Jack ever commented on the placement?

[shor]

Clint, I know Stefano found some original holes in my car and on John's white one. He would probably know better than I.
He also had an old magazine article from the 80's with a picture of the Licko car and the "odd" emblem placement.
You are up to emblem placement already?????????
I was hoping my car would be the first one to appear at a reunion!!

[shor]

licko car
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/37685-yenkocamaro2.jpg

[Schonyenko2]

Oh my, a black tailpan.Very cool! Schonye

[ssl78]

Hi Clint my car is a all original body panel car. I have holes that were once welded up above the Camaro script. I chose to put mine below the Camaro script. The holes in the tail panel were to the right of the bow tie emblem. Shors were in the same place. I do not have any holes in my hood for 427 emblems, there is no way of knowing if the hood could have been changed since my car had some race history.

[ssl78]

side shot

[hvychev]

Shor I love the blue bowtie on the yellow car! ssl78 I didn't notice yours as well when I was at the show. Wasn't this an old debate about the Douglas cars and the rear blue bow ties?

[ssl78]

Frank it was but it shouldnt be because My car and shors car have original tail panels and both had the holes drilled in the same spot. I wonder if Clints car is the same way.

[Clint_69]

Thanks for the info. I will follow suit on the tail panel and fenders. Chris, do you know if the hood on your car is original? Did it originally have the emblems on the hood? Stefano? I am still waitng on some pictures of my car from the original owner when the car was new. I only have one picture of the car in 1972 but I am not able to see the emblem placement. He states that the car was badged but does not remember the exact placement.

[Chevy454]

ssl78:

Just curious...why did you not put the emblems back where they were originally? Were the emblems on Shor's above the the "Camaro" script as well?

[Clint_69]

I wish my car was done. The car is at the point where we are just looking for templates for emblem placement. In the next week, the body will be done and in primer. Most of the body is done and the restorer is just hanging the front end sheet metal and getting it all lined up. The car is coming along very nicely and I am very pleased with the restorers work. He has really done the car the way I wanted it and has nice detail. I still have to complete the motor, trans, rear, interior and paint. It is probably 5-6 months from completion.

[Clint_69]

Good point Rob. I think that it would look kind of funny though. Although, if it was done that way at Douglass, it would be cool to see a Douglass car restored that way. Chris? Stefano?

[ssl78]

I just didnt like the way it looked with the emblems on the top of the script. The way it was on the tail panel I thought looked ok. I did the car so I can drive it and enjoy it for a while. I also know it will be framed off at a later date. As for Shors car it isnt original fenders so there is no way of knowing the placement.

[ssl78]

Clint do you know if yours came with a enduro bumper and chambered exhaust like all the others.

[Stefano]

Unless we get some pictures from an original owner......

[Clint_69]

Yes. The car came with an endura bumper. It was still with the car when I got it. The car also came with chambered exhaust when I got it but I am not 100% certain that the car had it originally. I have no reason to think otherwise.

[Chevy454]

So, did the car not have stripes originally, or was the emblem even above them? You're right, that would look odd...

[ssl78]

No way of knowing if my car had stripes but if it did they would have to of been moved up higher than normal. We know of two Douglas Yenkos that were original paint and had stripes and emblems before they were restored. I will have to ask them if they remembered where their emblems were. I believe when theese cars were restored they had their fenders changed. I just found the pictures and it looks like the Yenko emblem was above the Script with the 427 in front of it the measurment of the holes work out perfect. That could be why I have no holes in the hood for the 427. Who knows who was installing them they could have all been different. I rember working at a body shop when I was young and they had just repainted a demon, the boss came up to me with a bunch of decals and told me to put them on. I said I didnt know where they went so he said just put them on so I put them any where.

[Clint_69]

In speaking with the original owner, he did say that the car was badged when he bought it but not striped. He said that he purchased the car as a Yenko and paid Yenko money, somwhere around $4500 he stated. He did not like the stripes and that is why he bought it. He looked at a Daytona Yellow non vinyl top car that was striped but could not stomach the stripes. The car that he looked at may be the car owned by Shor. I was thinking about striping the car anyway but I am undecided. What do you guys think about striping it. Badges only or add the stripes? I like the stripes but I also want to take the car back to its original state. Thoughts?? Do you think that the car would get bashed if I striped it? Dont hold back fellas!!

[Clint_69]

I would like to see more Douglass owners participate in this forum. If your out there, share stories about your cars. Can you add info?

[Chevy454]

This has the makings of another 15+ page thread, but here I go anyway...

First off, in my mind, if the emblems were above the Camaro script (just above the crease in the fender, as pictured in your original fenders), then the car didn't have the stripes. If you move the stripes up, then they interfere with the door handle/lock and how they flow into the spoiler stripes. Now, they very well could have put the stripes in their "normal" location and placed the emblems on top of the stripes...it would look odd, but could be done.

Clint: as for adding the stripes to your car, I would put it back as it originally came (without stripes). Why? That is how it was sold, and it's part of the car's character. Yeah, it's different, but in my mind, different is GOOD. My Yenko Chevelle is supposed to be Fathom Green with a green vinyl top...not really an appealing combo in my mind! But, that's how it was originally, and it's DIFFERENT.

[Belair62]

I would say leave the stripes off....if thats the way it came and you can verify.If it came with stripes and you can verify I would do it with the stripes. I think they look nice without stripes personally.

[sYc]

Clint, You have spent the time and money to document how the car was equipped when new. Why go against what you know? Put the car back the way is was originally, emblems, no stripes. Any thing different only cheapens the car IMO.

By looking at information I have, which says emblems and trim (no mention of stripes) and what I have seen and heard, it is not certain that JD installed Yenko stripes on COPO cars. As Rob mentioned, JD varied from the way Yenko did it, which would have caused some problems.

Now, and this is not to step on any toes, I am curiuos about something. From what I have been told and read, Jack Douglass was a major player during the musclecar era. He sold some very neat cars, which to me have their own legacy. I can not understand for the life of me why owners of Douglass cars insist on adding/moving emblems, adding non-original stripes etc. It is as though they are ashamed of the Douglass name. Why? Why not let the Yenko name be a side bar to the history of Jack Douglass Chevrolet and his cars and concentrate on promoting the legacy he developed. If I were an owner of a Douglass car, instead of trying to align with Yenko, I would put my efforts into making the Douglass name as well known and appreciated as the other supercar dealers. Much the way that owners of Yenko, Gibb, Harrell, cars etc are doing.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I agree with you wholeheartedly Tom. It's pretty evident that some Copo cars sold by Douglass got the stripes & badges, some got badges, and, some got neither. Putting them back to the way they were sold makes the most sense to me too.

[ssl78]

I also agree they should be put back the way they were sold. Until I can find evidence how mine was sold I believe in Yenkos own words they were sold with yenko badges and trim. If he only ment badges he wouldnt have added the trim to the description. If he didnt mean stripes by the trim part what did he mean? The only other evidence we have is the two cars that were original paint that had the stripes, now one that came with just badges. As for mine having stripes it is still possible because moving the stripes up wouldnt affect it at all, the top stripe would have had to be trimmed around the key lock but the back of the stripe where it meets the spoiler gets trimmed any way and is the same thickness all the way down. I know all the owners from present back to 1973 when Richards Corvette in Colarado had it for sale. Hopefully I can find out its History prior to that and find out how it really came. Up to now all evidence leads me to believe it should be striped. I really dont mean to start another long debate but we all have are opinions.

[sYc]

Yenko said he sold JD emblems and trim, not that all, or any of Jack's cars for that matter, received the items. As I said, without proof, why turn a Jack Douglass COPO into a Yenko? IMO it down plays the importance of Jack Douglass Chevrolet and his accomplishments.

Clint, it is clear that these were sold as Douglas * COPO Yenkos. Is it not true that the only reason these cars were not bought through Yenko, is that Jack bought them direct, because he could, and knew how? Is it not true that Yenko "blessed" Jack to sell them as Yenkos? Also providing him with the necessary items to make them Yenko's, plus Yenko's commission. Personally, I would stripe it just because I would not want to explain the story time after time. I don't think you would be wrong for striping it simply because the original owner decided against it. Is anyone aware of a Canonsburg Yenko bought without stripes? Would it be wrong to restore it with stripes? Reminds me of the stripe delete LS-6's. I would put the stripes on them also. I love stripes! If the next guy doesn't like them, he can take them off. I don't feel you would be "misrepresenting" the car. Just my opinion.

[sYc]

Would there be the rush to put Yenko stripes on all Jack Douglass cars if his COPOs gathered more attention and $$$ then Yenko COPOs. Of course not!

And in our hobby where rarity is important, a JD COPO is much more rare then a Yenko COPO, somethning like 10-1.

Tom, I am only saying that would refer to the 20-25 cars that were intended to be Douglas* COPO Yenko's, not all COPO's he sold. Are the 20-25 vin #'s known of that second batch? I would have to think so. It was an option, was it not? I can appreciate you wanting to protect the Canonsburg Yenko cars, but what happened at Jack Douglas, happened. You or I cannot change that. Right or wrong, authorized or un-authorized, it appears Jack and Don had some type of agreement. Sure, it would be neat if Jack had his own stripe and emblem treatment, but he did not. I still see nothing wrong with applying Yenko stripes to a car sold new with Yenko emblems. Again, just my opinion.

[sYc]

If there is no evidence that a certain car came with Yenko stripes, or for that matter, Motion stripes, Harrell emblems, etc. then adding them to any car is turning that car into something it is not. It does not matter if done with a COPO or a base car.

That is why the sYc will never take part in any thread, nor answer email, where it appears that some one is wanting info to build a clone. And, why we do all we can to supress the building/selling of clones.


It is not about protecting Canonsburg cars. It is about protecting the integrity of ALL supercars, including JD cars. Remember, I am the one who provided the documentation that confirmed the connection between Don and Jack. If I had wanted to supress the JD, DY connection, I could have sat on that info.

[Jeff Murphy]

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/38011-arg-hands-clap-fas-bluebg.gif

[Belair62]

And I still think they look very cool and different without the Yenko stripe..If I had one and I knew it din't come with stripes I would never put them on.I hate to say this but it's a much cleaner look.

[ssl78]

Hi Dave, great post I couldnt have said it better. Tom you seem to be all over the place. First you say good work Clint for spending the time and money to document the way the car came new, with emblems no stripes. Then you say why turn a JD COPO into a Yenko.
Clint if I remember correctly in a previous post you talked to the original owner of your DJ yenko correct? Did he say he bought a COPO or a Yenko? Did stripes come with the car? Did emblems come with the car? Was it his choice if he wanted them ( I would think if someone went into Yenko and said I want one with no Stripes he would sell it that way). If I am correct Clint is the only person who talked to an original owner of a DJ Yenko, so at this point I would say he is the proof of what happened back than.
As for JD owners trying to turn a JD COPO into Yenkos for the money, that is ridiculos. In my opinion having the identical car with endura bumper, chambered exhaust and rosewood wheel isnt any less valuable than a Yenko. How much more proof do you need original paint cars with stripes and emblems. JD himself signing documents he had a deal with Yenko. Yenkos estate documents stating he sold Yenko emblems and trim to JD (do you think he wall papered his office with the stuff). Last but not least we have finally found an original owner to end any doubt. All this because a few guys would just like to put thiere car BACK TO THE WAY IT CAME WHEN BOUGHT NEW.

[Belair62]

Can you please repeat that SSL78 !!!

[hvychev]

Well said ssl78! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Mr70]

What is a DJ Copo & DJ Yenko? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm starting to feel de-jah-vu /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Seattle Sam]

O the Humanity!

[Clint_69]

Mr70, with all due respect, cut the sarcasm. I think you know what he meant although he did transpose the initials. Let's keep this civil.
I appreciate everyones opinions on this forum. My intent is not to make the car something that it is not. I want to get the car as close to the way it was sold originally, regardless of the way other Douglass cars came. Through my limited research, there is no way that I can say that these cars were done in a consistent fashion. Based on what I have read through the threads discussing Douglass cars, there are several testimonies on how other Douglass cars came new. Some are theory, very few are fact. I am lucky enough to have been in contact with the original owner of my car. He has made it clear to me that the car was sold to him as a Yenko and he had no impression of anything else. He did not even recognize the term COPO. The first time that I made contact with him, I stated to him that I was calling in reference to a 69 Camaro that I own and I was in the process of doing the research. His direct quote to me was "you mean my Yenko"? At that point, it was clear to me what he bought the car as, new. Although the car was not striped, he did also state that there were Yenko decals within the engine compartment. He did not recognize the exact placement. My though is this, if one has documentation supporting the way the car came originally, it should be taken back to that state. Just my opinion. With that, if one suspects that the car came a certain way originally, by all means, have it restored that way, it is your car. Finally, if you like the car a certain way, by all means, it is your car, restore it that way but prepare to have your car scrutinized.
Simply, I think that all Douglass cars are cool and from what I have gathered, the variety is what makes the Douglass cars unique. Some were baged, some were striped and some were just plain old COPOs. Never the less, they were all Douglass cars and the lack of uniformity is what makes them cool. SSl78, your car is cool and yours too Shor.

[Chevy454]

Excellent post Clint.

[Belair62]

Which is probably how it should have been said a long time ago.They are cool cars..... Does anyone know how many plain COPO's were sold at JD as opposed to cars badged as Yenko's ?

[bkhpah]

I hate to say this, but I have yet to see a JD Yenko with a set of original Yenko emblems. The cars I have seen have all had bad repos. Any ideas why?. There are differences in originals VS the modern day replicas...BKH

[sYc]

To add a little back ground, Clint and I had a lengthy discussion about his car and this subject several days ago, before this thread surfaced. Here is what I told him. As per the emblems, since he has evidence of emblems on his car when new, I would put them on the car. And, I went on to say that I would love to see the car when finished and have it a the reunion. In addition, I told him that I had no problem with the cars being listed as Dougalass COPOs/Yenkos, which is the stance I took the last time around and have not changed my opinion. Of course my opinion is probably worth about as much as my typing skills, not much.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Seems like we have reached the highest degree of agreement possible on this subject. Maybe we should leave it at that before guys start threatening to "meet up at the reunion" to settle their differances. [LOL]

[Mr70]

Clint_69....Lighten Up!...It's not sarcasm.
My reply was not meant towards you,but to SSL78,who I know and I consider a good friend.
John P. is a knowledgeable and valuable resource for cars.He has great facts and experience,and I was just busting his balls about his Dyslexic Typo....Nothing more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

There is no disrespect towards you and your *Camaro.
By the way,is this the same *Camaro Chad & Rick N. visited you to buy last year???

[Clint_69]

I apologize, I did not realize you had that relationship with him. I thought you were busting his balls.
Yes, it is the same car that was ripped apart by Chad. The car is currently far from that condition and many hours have been spent restoring the car. It is coming along quite nicely and should be done in the fall. Although the car looked terrible when I got it, it was reasonably solid. The restorer has documented the restoration very well. I am excited to get it done!!

[ssl78]

Mr 70, No offense taken, Brian as for why none of the cars has original emblems there is a simple explanation. In about 1986 I actually seen the car that Shor owns right now for sale on route 12 in Spring Grove. I stopped looked at it because it had Yenko stripes and Yenko emblems. The one thing that struck me funny was it had endura bumper and chambered exhaust. I took down the vin # and called Vince Emmy about it. He response was it was one of those Berger cars. I believe all double copos that werent on the Yenko list were considered berger cars. That is why when I bought my white JD Yenko it had D90 stripes and holes in the tail panel for a berger emblem, I believe put there by Bob Trez because he was probably told the same. This Jd story has only come out in the last few years. When the NICB report came back on mine it came back as a JD car. So I believe everone with theese original JD Yenkos were told they were Berger double COPOS and have been restored that way. Only one guy had left it close to the way it was found, the other dover white JD yenko. It is also odd that if there is a story of a Copo being a Yenko it usually turns out to be a JD yenko. I think this horse is dead so I leave it at that. Mr 70 no hard feelings, Tom I hope no hard feelings. So Tom if I send a picture of my car for a feature it will include Yenko some where in the heading.

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
So Tom if I send a picture of my car for a feature it will include Yenko some where in the heading.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it would dpend on what documentation you have showing that your car came equipped with Yenko trim.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know how many plain COPO's were sold at JD as opposed to cars badged as Yenko's ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked this a few posts back...does anyone really know ?

[sYc]

Belair62, I too would be curious to know if information exists that lists the Douglass COPOs sold and/or which of these cars received any sort of Yenko trim. If it exists, it would go a long ways in clearing up this debate.

[ssl78]

According to Jack all his COPO'S were to be sold as Yenko's, there might have been a couple that didnt have Yenko trim, because the customer didnt want it.

[ssl78]

This certificate is from Jack Douglass himself. Why would he lie he has nothing to gain.

[ssl78]

I dont know if this has been posted before but this add is from 1969. Look were it says Yenkos sold in all colors.

[ssl78]

Look at the emblem placement on the rear of this Yenko. The side emblems also look to be above the script. This is to early to be a JD Yenko and is also a X66 car, where all JD Yenkos were X11D80 cars. Maybe thats why JD emblems are where they are.

[ssl78]

This is the statement in Yenkos estate documents, it seems clear to me the Yenko emblems and trim were bought to install on theese cars. Make your own judgement.

[sYc]

I guess anything is possible, but am not for sure if JD would have seen that car, as it was used as a demo at Yenko Chevy in Canonsburg. And, as far as I know, the only one with that unusual emblem placement, and 427 in the rear bow tie. This car now resides in Nashville in the Ernst collection.

[ssl78]

Could it be all Yenko dealers recieved that picture or some kind of brochure with that car in it, since it was probably the first car in a photo. As I understand it JD was probably one of the first dealers to get cars and might of asked for a picture early on.

[Clint_69]

Very good research SSL78. Appears to be an obvious connection. That is the only early picture of a Yenko that I have seen with that badge placement. Are there any other Cannonsburg Yenkos that have the same placement originally? Does anybody have any other original pictures with that placement?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Somebody has my hands tied behind my back /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
Could it be all Yenko dealers recieved that picture or some kind of brochure with that car in it, since it was probably the first car in a photo. As I understand it JD was probably one of the first dealers to get cars and might of asked for a picture early on.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK now you guys are confusing me....if JD got some of the first Yenkos then I assume those would have been thru Yenko...what significance does the picture have ? Is this how JD badged the cars that were not from Yenko ? Does anyone have a good old straight double COPO Camaro from JD Chevrolet ?

[Unreal]

I noticed the style trim brightwork on the cars in the post. Were all Douglass prepared Yenkos X11? Was the white one with the blacked-out tailpan an X22?

[ssl78]

Bob, The first batch of cars shipped to JD were Don Yenko ordered Yenkos. I am not sure but I believe there were about 18 combined Camaro and Chevelles. That is where somebody found the sheet that had the COPO numbers on it. Jack then using those COPO numbers ordered his batch of JD Yenkos. The interesting part of that picture is people argue JD emblems are not in the same place as Yenko put them. That picture is a early Ca. Yenko and has the emblems in the same place JD put them.

[bkhpah]

I would think that the first Canonsburg ordered cars arrived at Douglass with the emblems in the more common places. What they did to their cars is anyones guess...BKH

[Chevy454]

Interesting thing about the "Drag Times" article posted earlier...

"Super Stock & Drag Illustrated" was also there the same day the gold prototype and the yellow Hedrick car were tested. In the SS&DI article, you can see that the gold car had the unique emblem placement, whereas the Hedrick car had the "standard" emblem placement. Both of these cars were early (X-66) cars, and if I'm not mistaken, the Hedrick car is earlier (by VIN#) than the gold "prototype" car. To my knowledge, the gold "prototype" car is the only Canonsburg car to get the "unique" emblem placement.

Someone feel free to jump in if any of that is wrong...!

[Belair62]

Thanks for clearing me up on that..I couldn't figure out the whole emblem deal....so...the second set of cars he ordered were actually JD COPOs which were then turned into Yenkos at JD Chevrolet...with the agreement of Don Yenko,emblems and stripes of Don Yenko on most if not all of the COPO's JD ordered.I don't think anyone would disagree that Yenko agreed to sell his stripes and emblems to JD after seeing the estate document.I think the market will decide on a case by case basis probably as to whether the first set of Canonsburg cars ordered by JD will be valued equal/more/less than the JD ordered direct cars that were given the Yenko treatment. But as was said before they are very cool and unusual cars. Just my .02 ! Either way...there sure aren't many of any of them to go around...

[sixtiesmuscle]

Amen. belair's alter ego.

[shor]

Right.
The first batch were ordered by Yenko and invoiced to Yenko and delivered to Don in Canonsburg. They were striped, and badged and transported to Jack Douglass in Chicago.

The second batch were ordered by Jack Direct from GM. They were invoiced to Jack Douglass and delivered to Jack Douglass directly,(that's why they are a little different option wise...endura, chambered, trim, etc. etc) They never went to Canonsburg.
They were striped(or not), and badged at the Jack Douglass dealership.
Clint has done some excellent work title wise and has found the original owner of his car.
Clint's vinyl top car was sold badged, but stripeless. It was sold as a Yenko, had a Yenko window sticker and Yenko dollars were paid.
My car was sitting on the showroom floor at the same time and (same color;Daytona Yellow)without the vinyl top.
My car was striped and badged and his friend even test drove it.
Clint's owner picked his car because he didn't care much for the "fancy" stripes!

It would be nice to find one of these Jack Douglass direct ordered Yenko's with a window sticker....or some old vintage photos with the emblem placement.

When Clint started asking his original owner about badge placement he just kind of chuckled and said;"Son, I bought that car cause she had a Yenko 427 in her, and I like yellow!"
Alot can be learned from that.
I will be thinking about that as I powershift from 1st to 2nd!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
;"Son, I bought that car cause she had a Yenko 427 in her, and I like yellow!"

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement and the statement in the Yenko estate document says it all really.....Jack Douglass found it advantageous to buy the stripes and emblems to enhance retailing the merchandise...they were all just COPO's but there was and still is a certain mystique and lure of a Yenko.

[ssl78]

Well said. I think we could put a fork in this one.

[hvychev]

Wow, a 15 page thread to what seems like a resolution to me.

[Belair62]

People will make up their own minds when they go to buy a car whether they feel a JD car with Yenko accessories is the same as a Canonsburg car and they will pay according to what they feel. There will never be a real consensus on this but there is no reason to keep beating a dead horse.We could use our time better to mess with Stefano or Charley. And if that gets old we can go to Marlin and so on...its more funner ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sixtiesmuscle]

Post deleted by sixtiesmuscle

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I noticed that you didn't disagree with my points Mike, but I agree that we have been through this before and I don't want to do it again. Remember, this is how Urban Legends get put into history books! The consensus you speak of is only among those from one side of the debate, therefore it's automatically a consensus. I think the true consensus is that they are Douglass/Yenko COPO cars, with a unique history behind them.

[hvychev]

Marlin, what urban legend would you be refering to? The one where someone states that Douglas cars were the first clones? Who holds or determines what goes in the history books? Hopefully not you.

[hvychev]

Now that this nightmare has resurfaced how about a poll as to who thinks that Douglas cars are real Yenko's.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Marlin, I disagree with your "points"/opinion. Mike

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ok Mike, now we're back to normal, our opinions are each worth $.02 - regardless as to how far apart they are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Frank, I don't think we need a poll, I think we agreed the last time around that these cars would be considered Douglass Yenko COPO cars.

[hvychev]

Oh, maybe it's just me but I thought you wrote that they were the first clones before you deleted your post. You seemed to be serious untill Mike kind of hinted that your post was in bad taste.

[Jeff H]

Let me toss this thought out there. Would you consider the "new" 1966 Shelby Cobras real Shelby Cobras like the ones built in 1965/66?

[sYc]

There will never be a car to replace the "original" Cobra. Same goes for the GT-40, Grand Sport and ZL-1 'Vettes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[sixtiesmuscle]

What does THAT have to do with anything? Would you consider a '69 Z28 that had a bunch of parts added to it, without supporting documentation, to be an original "JL8, crossram, etc. Z28"?

[copo9566aa]

Yes but not all JD Camaro COPO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Should the Shelby Europa cars be considered real Shelby's for the "history books".

Shelby Europa (http://people.freenet.de/pony/sheleur.htm)

Yes but not for all real Shelby fanatic......

Just my opinion....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Jeff H]

Sorry guys, I keep confusing fact and fiction on this subject. I keep thinking there is documented proof that JD paid Don Yenko for the stripes and window stickers and the right to sell the cars as Yenko Camaros. If proof does arise then I stick by my opinion that the JD Yenkos are just as much a Yenko as the DY Yenkos. Not trying to cause trouble. Ane we all know that the only possibly documented crossram JL8 would be the 68 Z28 convertible.

[ssl78]

In case you didnt read this the first time I posted it I will post it again. Written by Don Yenko himself, says bought Yenko emblem and trim, and said was bought to help sell the merchandise. Do you think if DY didnt approve of it, he would have even mentioned it.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

We've read it several times before. That is not an agreement, simply a restatement of some facts. If some guys choose to read more into it than others, that is their choice.

[sixtiesmuscle]

People have been convicted of murder, and, executed on less circumstantial evidence than what exists in this case Marlin. Since some of you choose to think that Jack Douglass is a liar, and, expect hard copy [originals I'm sure] of an agreement detailing this mutually beneficial relationship, this will never be settled. So, why can't we just agree to disagree, and, kill the next person who brings it up!

[Charley Lillard]

Hey...Can I bring this up ? Somewhere in this long long thread that I had managed to ignore for so long because I didn't think there would be too much interesting info about Emblem placement was mention of Clint having a Yenko Window Sticker for his JD Yenko. Did I Dream that ? I would think that a orig. Yenko Window Sticker for one of the debated Cars would mean alot. Do you have it Clint ? Can you Post it ? I'll meet you out back Sixties with my Mutts as Backup.

[sixtiesmuscle]

clill, You're exempt. We have to make allowances for West coast weirdos. Anyway, your mutts don't have a chance, cuz, Gags has got my back.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm fine with that idea Mike! We each have our points, disagreement is ok.

I have no dogs, I guess I'll have to bring 18month old Benjamin to hug Charley's mutts!

[Clint_69]

I do not have an original window sticker nor have I stated that I do. Would love to find one though.

[Charley Lillard]

Per Shors post... "Clint's vinyl top car was sold badged, but stripeless. It was sold as a Yenko, had a Yenko window sticker and Yenko dollars were paid". Sorry, I assumed his statement was based on you having the Window Sticker.

[Belair62]

Mike.... I have Lhasa Apso's for hire. They are not pure bred...however I did have permission from the King of Tibet to breed them. They will eat Charleys mutts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Bring em on Biscayne /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Mr Yenko]

The only way I feel these JD camaro's should be reconized as are COPO's. The ONLY true YENKO's are those that were on the original inventory sheets.I had thought that some of the earlier JD camaro's might have been on these sheets. Sounds like Jack Douglass wanted to save some money and convert them himself. He was just being buisness smart I suppose and can't blame him for that, it just seems that everyone with JD camaro's want to be reconized as Yenko owners. Let the the bashing begin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Belair62]

And here I thought it was over !!!

[sixtiesmuscle]

Nutz

Mr. Yenko, lets say you purchased one of these cars new, and someone told you that all you had was a COPO camaro. ??? Would you pop the yenko emblems off, and say "OK, sorry, I thought it was a real Yenko"?

[sYc]

I think "pissed" would be the word. As one original owner of a JD COPO stated, you paid the extra money (Yenko dollars) to get "that Yenko 427". Then to find out that the car did not come from Yenko! Yes, I know they were both COPOs, but the perception back then (public wise), was that the Yenkos had something extra. That is why JD had trouble selling his COPOs without connecting them to Yenko.

[olredalert]

Tom,

-----Not knowing the Yenko lore as well as many of you guys,I have a question.It seems I remember that Yenkos were rated at 450HP.If this is true,did Don do anything to the cars to warrant the 25 extra horses?Did he change the carb or add headers or anything?I guess my point would be that I dont think Jack did HP mods at all,just badges,and stripes!I know Jack fairly well and the "bottom line" was always more important than anything else to him.If he could get the extra Yenko money for a few badges and a little vinyl then he was all for it.Jacks position would likely have been "why modify an already fast car and let ourselves in for all kind of warranty issues when we can sell it just like it is".Its not as if there were a whole bunch of other Yenkos around Chicago to compare to,as far as the horsepower modifications were concerned.
-----I hope none of this is misunderstood.As far as Im concerned the cars are(simply)the cars.They are all significant,just some are different than others,but the are all interesting(other than some burnished brown ones)!!!!!!!......Bill S

[sYc]

Unlike in '67 and '68, in 1969, Yenko did not modify most cars. The 450HP figure most likely came from NHRA. I am thinking that is what the NHRA rated the L-72 at. As per JD, I am sure he was like all of us. If he could sell a few more cars, that meant a few more dollars in his pocket. Nothing wrong with that. The reason JD needed the Yenko name was not because of the performance edge. JD and others proved that they could equal, or even beat what Don was doing performance wise. The edge Yenko had was in how the public viewed the cars. It was in how they were promoted. And Don was very good at this. With his racing success (name recoginition), nation wide dealer network and extensive advertising program, the public saw Yenko built cars as something special. In the same way as the Stephani family did with Nickey and Joel Rosen (with he help of Marty Schorr) did with Motion. And, IMO that carries over to today. There were many dealers, such as JD, who were doing the same thing as these three, but on a smaller scale (publicity wise). One of the reasons Yenko was so prominent in the midwest was because of Span, INC. AKA James Spencer, who was Yenko's sales rep, working I believe out of Chicago.

[ssl78]

I was talking to a guy who used to have muscle cars but is now heavily into Porsche. He was telling me he used to own a yellow Yenko Camaro between 1973 to 1984. He bought it from the original owner who lived in Joliet IL. When he bought the car it was original but the owner put a small block in it because the big block ate to much gas. This was a stripped and emblemed, car the original motor was sitting in the corner of the garage. I asked him if the tach was on the column or in the dash, he said in the dash. This tells me it was more than likely a JD Yenko since all PA Yenkos sold out of JD were early cars. I am almost positive this car belongs to someone on this board. He believes he still has the vin number to the car and also has slides of the car, and will give them to me. I think most people agree that most JD cars came with some sort of Yenko identification on them. That means there werte probably 18 PA yenkos and maybe 20-23 JD Yenkos in the area. No matter what anybody thinks know back then they were Yenkos. I think this is why they are so well known in the midwest.

[hvychev]

Interesting poll results...........

[Mr Yenko]

Yenko,
When talking to the orig. owner to my Byrnes. Bros. COPO. I had mentioned that I had bought his old camaro and that it was a COPO camaro he had never heard of the term. He remembers them as being advertised as SS 427 Camaro's. He recalls seeing some Yenko's their but at the time there were about 7 "SS 427" Camaro's in the lot when he bought his. He was looking for a FAST camaro for a reasonable price and $3900,00 would do the trick. I even recall a member of this board buying his Yenko new and removing the stripes cause he thought they looked stupid. "Forgive me Don for saying that" Most people didn't even care they just wanted a FAST car. That is just my thoughts, I can't say if I would have wanted all that flare and attention bought to myself with the stripes and emblems. I like the SLEEPER look myself. "MOF" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Clint_69]

So, are you stating that Byrnes Bros. COPO owners now want to be recognized as SS 427 owners? LOL!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Stefano....quit paying all your friends stuff the ballot box

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]
In speaking with the original owner, he did say that the car was badged when he bought it but not striped.

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]
"In speaking with the original owner,.... He said that he purchased the car as a Yenko and paid Yenko money, somwhere around $4500 he stated."

Clint, I am confused. Since I have never seen your car or spoken to any of the prior owners the only info I have is that which was provided by you.

You told me that the car was in an accident, rear 1/4 and tail panel and already possibly completely repainted in the picture you have dated circa 1971, which you showed me at the Fall '02 Chevy/Vette Fest

Has the original owner provided info, to the contrary of what he told you earlier regarding your car?

My preference would be to restore it back to the way it was sold off the showroom floor. If it had no stripes then I would keep it that way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Clint_69]

As I have continued to have conversations with the original owner, the story about how the car originally came has evolved. I simply spoke too soon when I stated the car was badged. It is a fact that the original owner of the car was under the impression that he purchased a Yenko. In my initial conversation with him, he did stated that the car was badged as a Yenko and that is why I was so excited because it appeared that we solved a piece of the mystery behind these cars. I also spoke with his best friend, Nick M, who claimed to have pictures of my car when it was close to new, and he also stated that the car was badged. He was at the dealership the day my car was purchased and he had purchased his Yenko Chevelle on the same day. I believe that Chris S also had this conversation with him and he stated the same thing. In more recent conversation, the original owner now states that although the car may not have been badged externally, he definately remembers Yenko decals within the engine compartment. I have not gotten back with his best friend to confirm the information. Therefor, based on the information that I have, the car appears to be a Double COPO. Based on inaccuracy from the original owner and his best friend, I will not put any Yenko markings on the car until a picture is produced of the engine compartment showing Yenko decals. Even though the original owner was under the impression that the car was a Yenko, for whatever reason, the car is simply not and will not be represented as such. Based on my research, it has been difficult for me to take the information from the original owner and his best friend and consider it the gospel. Another example of this would be that his friend, when I initially contacted him, stated to me and Chris that his Yenko Chevelle was striped at Jack Douglass Chevrolet and also stated that his car was a Jack Douglass car as opposed to a Cannonsburg car. It was not until he started digging up original paperwork on the car that he said that his car was from Cannonsburg. This was a long time ago and the facts, in some situations, are not clear. I believe that one of a couple things may have happened with my car. Either the car did have Yenko decals in the engine compartment and when I posed the question to him whether or not the car was badged he was speaking in terms of the engine decals, or, at the dealership that day, the salesperson represented the car as a Yenko and used that Yenko name as a sales tactic. Who knows? Never the less, just because the original owner was under the impression that he purchased a Yenko, does not make it a Yenko. Especially since I have no documentation proving so. Keep in mind, I am not speaking on behalf of all of the Douglass cars. I believe that some were striped and badged, just not mine. As far as the accident goes, the car was involved in an accident with the second owner. The car was hit in the tail panel and the rear right quarter. As the restorer was stripping the car, he came to the conclusion that the tail panel and quarter panel were still the original and that they had cheap repairs done to them when they were damaged. The car may have been repainted but I am now certain that the picture was taken prior to the accident. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Very honest and refreshing information Clint.Thanks for sharing and shedding some light. Memories get cloudy after 30 years so I'm sure the original info was honestly given to you and you passed that information along....I can't imagine trying to remember ANYTHING from 1969...

[hvychev]

Bob is it just a blur of purple haze??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Did you ever see that bumper sticker that says "If you can remember the 60's you were'nt there!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff H]

I can't remember all the details on a car I looked at 2 days ago, so I can't see how so many people think they can remember something from 30+ years ago. Take the 427 Chevelle convertible thread for example. The original owner swore it was a 427. But on the other side of this situation is the fact that you can't ignore the stories people tell either or we'll never find any of the lost cars. Good information Clint.

[Belair62]

I think it was orange sunshine !!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Seattle Sam]

Sounds like Frank and Bob are looking at this dicsussion through a different Windowpane! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Seriously, though, if these two friends picked up a Yenko Chevelle and a COPO Camaro on the same day at the same dealership, it's very easy to see how the memory of those two cars could be blurred together, especially after 34 years.
jmho,
-Sam

[ssl78]

I have recieved pictures of the White Douglass Yenko from the original owner, the car is still all original and only 6 months old so this is how it came from the factory. Yenko crest in rear and also above the body line on the front fender

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/ssl78/1-23-201145029PM.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/ssl78/1-23-201145737PM.jpg

[ssl78]

Here are early pictures of the other white Yenko early on. same placement on the emblems

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/ssl78/flyenko.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/ssl78/flyenko002.jpg

[ssl78]

Interesting story on my old Douglass yenko. The car was ordered by and delivered to Jack Douglass in hinsdale IL, it seems it wasnt selling but dealer traded to a Chevy dealer in Fort Collins Co.
The original owner bought it in June of 70 with only 8 miles on it he kept it a few years. The next 40 years the car went from Nebraska, Kansas, Wisconsin and back to Illinois 20 minutes from Jack Douglass where it was Sold. I sold the car to Wayne who lives within 20 miles of the original selling dealer. The original owner had the POP and all dealer paperwork on the car which has been reunited with the car.

[Xplantdad]

Very cool!

[camaromb]

The original owner had put the paperwork up for sale on Craigslist! Yenko original paperwork for $ 100! I thought it was a scam but had to check it out. He was about to sell the paperwork at a local swap meet! He sent me photos of the original protect-o-plate and I knew it was John's old Douglas car! A great story and some really nice vintage photos.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sans stripes!

[JoeC]

No 427 emblems ?

cool photos