ZL1 carburetor

[mc25t190]

i need one!
kevin hand
336 215 4387
building a look alike

[Stefano]

Buy the carb for $450,000.00 and I through in a complete ZL1 for free. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jeff Murphy]

If you are building a look alike and don't care about date codes call Sallee Chevrolet in Oregon. They have brand new 4296's on sale for $375 (instead of $800 at the regular price or $1200+ for dated carbs).

Scroll almost to the bottom of this link on the right hand side:

Sallee Chevrolet -- Sales Items Holley 4296 (http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/sales.html)

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/SalesPics/04296b.jpg

[mc25t190]

is it bill porterfields? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[mc25t190]

thanks garnet m20
kh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SuperCars]

That's a better idea Kevin, if you are building a look-a-like, or clone; don't worry about date codes etc, as long as it looks correct.

Kevin will probably agree: It's irritating to see other guys out there buying authentic date coded parts to build a clone car and waste those valuable parts; as why bother, it is a fake anyway. It makes it more difficult and costly for the guy restoring an authentic car from getting those same parts to return his authentic car to being correct.

[mc25t190]

yeah,
i just need it for a driver, doesn't have to be date correct. i'm with you on that one , kevin s.. i'm hoping to build a monster zl1 that you can have some fun with, i hope! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Jeff Murphy]

How monster???

[JoeC]

Did the original ZL1 Camaro Holley use the choke?

[Chevy454]

I don't believe so. No provision for a choke.

[Jeff Murphy]

Yep. I think you are both right.

[Ed Cunneen]

No Choke. Also, ZL-1's don't use a temperature controlled heat riser on the exhaust. There is no provision in the aluminum head to transfer the exhaust to the other side through the intake manifold.
Of course you will probably be using headers anyway.

[NCGuy68]

Its' my understanding that the first ZL1 came with a incorrect Carb which was later changed/updated. Subsequent cars received a Carb with a choke plate.

If I'am wrong, set me straight please.

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
No Choke. Also, ZL-1's don't use a temperature controlled heat riser on the exhaust. There is no provision in the aluminum head to transfer the exhaust to the other side through the intake manifold.
Of course you will probably be using headers anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see that Ed has answered my question.

Thanks for your input Ed.

[rpoz11]

I have what you need

[rpoz11]

Yes, I have a spare 1970 Dated 4296 for sale...

[rpoz11]

So, what's so bad about having dated parts in a Clone ; even if it's for one's own personal enjoyment?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[rpoz11]

re : Ed C'c rebuttle... Hi, I sorta find it hard to believe that the ZL1 car's choke plates were not present on the orig 4346's or 4296's. Can you please explain your thoughts on this? I ask as I have an NOS one of these dated that has the choke present. Ive had many 4295's that obviously would follow this thinking; but I am all ears to your knowledge...
Your thoughts... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[tom406]

I agree with Kevin S. on this one. The "problem" if you want to call it that, is the depletion of rare date coded parts for the authentic cars that "deserve" them. Now anybody who pays the money gets to do whatever he/she wants to do (Turn that NOS ZL1 block into a coffee table stand, whatever), of course. But when folks start buying date coded correct stuff for a clone, it just seems like a waste. I mean you may have a carb date coded to the car, but the car's supposed to have a 307 and a powerglide, so who cares? And since you're building a clone, why not use the best parts that work and look right, rather than the "original" parts. I've heard of guys using real COPO rearends in their clones. WHY? So the one guy in 100 who crawls under your car and reads the codes gets a surprise?

The only upside is, when some of these guys go nuts building their clone with correct parts, the clone can later be purchased as an excellent donor for a "real" project car.

This isn't a bash on clones - I've got a '66 Shelby clone in my possesion as I type this. But I'm not out chasing NOS tires for it or anything. I'm not even hunting down a Shelby-correct '66 t-10 4 speed. I'm putting a t-5 5-speed in it so I can have my cake and eat it too. Vintage Shelby appeal on the cheap, and reasonable cruising on the freeway with 4.11's. And nobody looking at the car as it goes down the freeway will care one way or another about my tranny.

JMO,
TOM

[CamarosRus]

I need a 4346 or whatever else would be cosmetically correct (date unimportant)....Would the larger CFM 4296 be wrong to use on a hydralic cam, oval port 427....I also need a 163 Intake....Thanks, Chuck

[MotownMadman]

I would think that using a date coded correct part in building a clone would be excessive if it were a part that someone could use in the restoration of a "real" car. It would be a shame to have the badly needed date coded carb on a clone while someone needing that part could not find one. This particular situation is a bit different though. How many 69 ZL-1 cars are out there that are going to be found in which the owner cant find a correct carb? Seems like the number would be few. If someone comes up with a lost ZL-1 and cant find a carb I would think Kevin H would be more than willing to part with it in that case. In a round about way by him using a correct carb on his clone he is actually preserving it so it does not end up on some teenagers hopped up 77 Monte Carlo on it's way to a junk yard. Also, by building the ZL-1 clone to drive, the real one Kevin has is thereby also being preserved as when Kevin feels the need to drive a ZL-1, the real one is safe at home with no danger of being slammed into by some idiot, while Kevin still gets to enjoy driving one that is no different except for the VIN due to the fact the clone was built correctly. Not being a fan of clone cars myself, this is a situation where I think the idea justifies itself, considering all that Kevin H. has done to preserve this hobby. Some people just want the best they can possibly have, that trait in Kevin has led to the correct restoration and preservation of many a fine Supercar, so keep up the good work Kev!
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[mc25t190]

thanks for the positive response matt, and tip on some parts. everything i have is not driven, afraid for the worst. i'll take the yellow survivor out for an occasional spin, but at night on a backstreet or sunday morning behind the house. i will not put on the street in traffic. i just want to build something i can say i did myself, zl1 block, correct parts if in good shape and reasonable, new in some cases , after all i will be driving the look alike( hate the word clone doesn't sound good maybe i'll lock in the ZL1 rights and move to canada)just like the #13 car a sleeper with maybe some beefed up tires and wheels, not a pro tourer.next question, anybody got a 69 body in excellent condition or perhaps a driver with 6 cyl or 307 cheap? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jeff Murphy]

Now I feel bad because I have a date coded 198 intake for use in my ZL-1 clone. At least it's an October 69 date so it wouldn't be appropriate for a real car...

I'm kind of doing a half way solution to Kevin H's and inspired by Pete Simpson. I'm going to temporarily put a ZL-1 in my COPO while it's still getting used to make sure nothing happens to the original VIN numbered L-72. At least I'll be able to say "yeah, I know it's not a ZL-1 -- it's just a COPO."

Once the car get's turned into a trailer/show queen with the original engine back in it, I'll probably do something silly like a "what if" car -- ZL-1 convertible, 69 Chevelle ZL-1, ZL-1 road racing car like the Bob Jane ZL-1.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jeff H]

Here's an argument. If you're gonna argue against using date coded parts on a clone, then you should argue against using date coded parts on a real car that is missing it's original drivetrain. If my 69 Z28 is missing the original 302, I can put another DZ 302 in it but it's still not the original engine and never will be, so why waste a date coded carb on it? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but there's a lot of people out there who go crazy trying to find the correct dated parts for their non original cars. I'm guilty. I had to find some heads, a starter and I don't even have exhaust manifolds. But I'm not going to pay 3 times the actual value just to get the correct dates. I think that date coded parts are just a challenge to the person building the car. It's also a perception that date coded parts will enhance the value. Obviously everyone has the right to buy whatever parts they want at whatever the price is. We can't really argue one way or the other. It's personal preference.

[SuperCars]

I doubt I would ever own a clone. It only taints a collection as other car guys wonder: "if he has that clone, how many other cars of his are "fake". I saw that happen to Dave Simpson's collection. I understand he had a few fakes, that were claimed to be real.

When it comes to clones, I have concerns of unscrupulous guys trying to pass off clone's that are more believable due to authentic parts, with them claiming it as an authentic car. Additionally, the installing of authentic parts on clone cars, takes away from the supply of parts and makes it tougher for guys restoring authentic cars that may have a real need in order to be judged as a correct car.

But, I understand the reason for some guys having clone cars as possibly that is what they can afford, or want a look-a-like car to drive hard, so they wouldn't chance wrecking a real car. So if it is a car built for budget reasons, or to enjoy as a look-a-like, it seems a waste of money to spend many times more for an authentic part when they can buy a look-a-like part at a fraction of the cost. So using this example of a carb, will a clone owner bother to take off his air cleaner and hand an observer a magnifying glass to look at numbers and then state: "I have a authentic dated carb on my clone car; ain't that cool?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Seattle Sam]

JeffH said,

[ QUOTE ]
...I think that date coded parts are just a challenge to the person building the car...

[/ QUOTE ]
Jeff, I think you hit on something. The hunt is the thing for a lot of guys. It is much easier to get correct-appearing parts than it is to find part number- and date- correct parts. But, as a matter of pride, exactly correct parts make your car as perfect as it can possibly be without being an unmolested low-mile original.
And those survivor cars are the coolest of all.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

That said, I agree with both Kevins, look-alike cars should have some obvious signs that they are not "the real thing" to help avoid future fraud.
-Sam

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
will a clone owner bother to take off his air cleaner and hand an observer a magnifying glass to look at numbers and then state: "I have a authentic dated carb on my clone car; ain't that cool?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Kind of puts it into perspective. These rare date coded parts are better off being preserved in a dust free plastic container on a safe shelf in the hands of someone with the intentions of seeing it used in an authentic restoration rather than being "preserved" bolted onto a clone car and run hard thus adding wear to an already rare part. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif IMHO

If you're going to build-a-look a like car to take out and run hard why not go with the day 2 parts and have some real fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ed



[/ QUOTE ]

[mc25t190]

kevin ,
i see where you are coming from thats the reason i say i'm perhaps maybe going to build a look a like, i will not try to clone anything completely. i am planning? to build a look a like driver. you can best believe i won't tie up much money in it. it will look good, it will run like_____! i will not fork up the cash to go for date coded correct parts and 3 times the price. i will have a 427 aluminum block ground pounder when done if i decide to do this. i will have a driver when done,not a ZL1 clone just a 427 aluminum block car. i hate the word CLONE! it will probably have front and rear spoilers with vintage atlas wheels , gauges, console, rosewood, maybe even a rallye sport! all of this could get scrapped if something pops up, how bout one of them there HEMI'S! got a hemi in it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[SuperCars]

Yep, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif anyway, just giving my opinion, and there's nothing wrong about anyone building any type of car they like to have fun with.

Still want a HEMI? Trade my 70 Black on Black, 4 speed Hemi Cuda for one of your 69 427 Yenko Novas, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[mc25t190]

would consider , but, would lose my percentage of market share! but i will take the black hemi off your hands /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif!

[Schonyenko2]

Just to make it real interesting, why don't you guys race for pinks? Looks pretty even. And you wouldn't have to drive em on the street. Schonye /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Zman]

Ok, I'm pretty new here...I've been lurking around in the background, but haven't posted much.
My question is for Supercars..and I don't mean this in an offensive way at all...
Kevin I am truely amazed at your collection... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif
Do you ever drive ANY of these cars??
If so, which ones do you like to drive the most??
Just curious
Dennis

[COPO PETE]

Not sure why you would want to buy a 6 cylinder car or small block car????? As in my case with my white COPO Camaro... it was the perfect car to buy. Original motor and tranny were gone, so I could build up a motor and go racing and drive it like I stole it. My reasoning is..... it cost the same to paint a real COPO car as it does a 6 cylinder car. Cost the same to put interior, brake lines, tires, rims etc etc etc. Why not buy a real car without a motor, fix it up and when your done, you have something that is still worth some good cash. JMO
Peter

[mc25t190]

pete,
not a bad idea, do you know where one is located? i was thinking$$$$, but would love to have a copo?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Original motor and tranny were gone, so I could build up a motor and go racing and drive it like I stole it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the exact same scenario as my Chevelle (no engine/trans), and it WILL see action on the track. Although, I'm not sure I will be good enough with a 4-speed to "drive it like I stole it"...JJ may have to show me how to do that! I do have some cowboy boots, though.../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

My exact thoughts on the choice of cars, also...the initial cost may be higher, but the rest of the cost should be the same, but you stand a chance at getting your money back with a real car.

[Zedder]

I'm with Rob and Pete on this one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif I'm looking for 2 1967 Z28's currently. One that is very correct and complete and another project body that I want to build into a super street car. I'm going to build it like I would have optioned the car if I were buying it new (without butchering anything of course) and I'm even going to paint it the color of MY choice (rather than whatever the first owner chose). I know some will chastise me for messing with the car, but the way I see it is that it's my car, my money and my preferences! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif The difference in cost for a Z body versus a plain Jane body isn't great enough for me to justify putting that much cash into a plain Jane car.

[BARRY]

HI PETE I WOULD LIKE A COPO CAR TO FIX UP WHERE ARE THESE CARS

[COPO PETE]

mc25t190..... check your PM's
Peter

[Kim_Howie]

Rob, anytime you need a REAL DRIVER for your stick car let me know, because I'll drive it like I stole it!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Jeff Murphy]

I agree with you, too, but it does bring up some questions. Does this philosophy only work because the ZL-1 VINs are so well documented that it would be next to impossible to dupe someone?

Clearly the NOM COPO would be the cool way to go, but what about any NOM big block? Maybe part of the reason for using a 6 or a small block so no one can mistake the trim tag? Is this a shades of grey issue?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Pete, you can send any quality NOM COPO Camaros or Chevelles my way too... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/39675-yesnod.gif

[BARRY]

THIER IS A RUMOR ABOUT A ZL1 VIN NUMBER &OWNER SHIP FOR SALE THIS CAR WAS STOLEN IN 69