Steel crossram hood on Ebay

[Jeff H]

Hey Charley, is this the hood you sold to Jim at Heartbeat City? This is the one that came out of Canada right? I thought you said it had some rusty areas or bubbling on it. It's now suddenly mint condition! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2425941803&category=34 204

[LVCamaro]

According to Jim, it's not the same one he bought from Charley. Yesterday, this one was described as mint and $15k...ouch, ouch, ouch!

SS

[JChlupsa]

Think he kind of left himself open on this one but then also kept the back door open also.

Dont see a reserve anyplace but then if it doesnt get as high as he wants towards the end of the auction he can always say it sold at the shop!

<font color="red"> Remember this AUCTION COULD CLOSE AT ANY TIME AS THE ITEM IS ALSO on display in our store here in Michigan. </font>

[LVCamaro]

I'm just reporting what Jim told me on the phone last night. I'd sure like to have a X-Ram hood and complete manifold, barburetor and air cleaner setup...but then I wouldn't be able to afford the car to bolt the stuff on to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SS

[Jeff H]

$15K, ouch! I have a GM fiberglass crossram hood and I would want that more than a metal hood. The metal hood looks almost identical to the normal cowl hood with just a different shaped opening welded onto it.

[Astock]

I agree, a fiberglass hood should be worth more than a steel hood. I had a n.o.s glass hood on Ebay about 2 years ago and it only topped out at $3,400.
A person can ask whatever they want for a car or part,it doesn't mean it's the going price.

[njcrossramjeffm]

somebody help me out here. why does this one look different than the one on page 308 of hoopers book? supersize picture then compare area around cutout for air cleaner.

[Charley Lillard]

I would rather have a Steel Hood than a Glas one. Steel one is alot more Rare, Fits better, holds paint and shape alot better. They Repo very nice Glas ones. I haven't seen any Repo Steel ones. Yes the one I had had pinhole rust spots in a couple places underneath and had hood pin holes that had been filled. Was still a Very usable Hood.

[Jeff H]

Let me ask this question, do the steel hoods have the holes for the hood pins like the fiberglass hoods? My opinion on the fiberglass being better is based on the reason the hood exists in the first place, less weight while racing. So the steel hood doesn't make much sense to me. Obviously it's much rarer, but who cares if it weighs more.

[Maxx]

I would agree with Charley on the steel hood vs. glass hood. The fit and finish would be much better using the steel hood, we all know that the glass hoods bow up at the center of the fender and flex and can shrink causing paint problems. Plus, closing the steel hood is much easier without the use of prop-rods or light weight springs. There are only a hand full of GM steel hoods produced.

I've also talked with Heartbeat city and he now has two steel GM X/Ram hoods! I understand he is selling a different one than the one from Canada.

Good luck!

[JChlupsa]

Hood was removed and relisted. Still no reserve set!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2426600944

[Maxx]

Looks like he added the word Camaro in the listing!

[Kurt S]

What was the purpose of the steel x-ram hood?
In Trans-Am, fiberglass was allowed in 69 and they only allowed single carbs in 70. So why do these hoods exist? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeC]

Are you sure the glass hood was allowed in TA? I was looking at old pictures of a Penske 68 Camaro and it has a SS hood on it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Jeff H]

Yes, the cowl induction hood was legal for TA racing in 69(not available in 68) so GM made the normal metal cowl induction hood as an RPO and then released the fiberglass crossram cowl hood as a heavy duty part because it would qualify and save weight on the front end. I don't see the reason for the metal crossram hood unless GM was required to produce it to satisfy the SCCA. Obviously the metal crossram hood will fit better than the fiberglass hood because it won't tend to bow. But with such small numbers made(10 or less?), it has a lot of value to some people.

[Mr Yenko]

Was just on the phone with Warren M. and he and I were talking about this hood. Looking closer to the hood it appears to be a single 4 barrel hood that was converted into a cross ram hood. Looking at the photos of the one in the Hooper book the air box for the rear carb doesn't come down over the carb like the Orig. one. Also the hole does not look to be semetrical all the way around. That if you took a cut out of the hole it would not fold in half and match up to itself. I would be carefull in the purchase of this hood. We do know the source of this hood /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[Supercar_Kid]

Yes, I agree this ebay hood looks a little fishy after comparing it to the one in the book... the one in Hooper's book has a symmetrical hole, which would correctly match up to the cross ram air cleaner, and also has the airbox portion that is much different than the standard single 4 bbl cowl hood... If they only made 10 or so, perhaps each one was a little different? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt here, but lets just say i'd be looking VERY closely at this hood in person before shelling out the cake for it. On a side note, Wasn;t the FIRST use of the cowl induction hood on a production camaro actually used on the first ZL1?

[TimJ]

I just looked at the steel crossram hood my Z-28(garnet red,service package JL-8 with eaton posi,chambered exhaust,140 camshaft,endura,console delete etc.)has and the airbox drops down 3 inches to meet the much lower(than the 472 intake)crossram aircleaner. I wouldnt buy from anyone with a cash only no return policy let alone this particular dealer who has a reputation for misrepresenting authenticity of parts.I also own a 69 copo camaro,rally green,m-22,8-track; both cars are local with canadian documentation.I am currently restoring a 67 hemi gtx and i race a 70 eliminator 428cj in nhra super stock.I read somewhere vince piggins wanted to offer the crossram as an rpo so they started to tool up the hoods but stopped when they realized with no chokes or exhaust crossover streetability was never going to meet gm standards.The last production number i heard was 4 of these hoods were known to exist.

[JChlupsa]

Tim, Aloha mind if I ask where you from? theres a reason behind my madness

[COPO PETE]

Welcome Tim! Shoot me a e-mail. Would like to hear more on your Canadian COPO Camaro!
Peter

[MotownMadman]

The one and only 68 Z-28 convertible has the steel crossram hood, if anyone is interested I can shoot a photo of the underside and post it here.
Motown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jim Mattison]

Matt,

The '68 Z-28 Convertible that we built for Pete Estes, when he was General Manager of Chevy has the fiberglass cross-ram cowl hood, NOT a steel one!

The entire cross-ram program was intended to give the Chevy race teams (mainly Penske) an advantage in the SCCA Trans Am or A/Sedan class. The few steel hoods that are out in the marketplace were made to be used on the racecars, until Chevy got the ok from the SCCA to use a fiberglass one. It also gave the race teams an option to use either steel or fiberglass. Penske used an "acid-dipped" steel hood (and other parts) on his '69 Camaro race cars for most of the '69 season. As we all know, the 'glass hoods will have a tendency to warp from the engine heat.

One of the reasons that we built the '68 Z-28 Convertible for Estes was to help expedite this effort along. If you'll look at the Z-28 Convertible again, I'm sure that you'll discover that it has a fiberglass hood on it!

Jim Mattison

[MotownMadman]

Jim,
Of course you are correct on this, you really didnt think I was going to disagree with one of the people who were there when the car was ordered, do you? I was just checkin to see if you were awake and paying attention. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was confused at the fact of the hood standing next to the car, it turns out Al bought the glass crossram hood that is on the car now when he replaced the X Ram set up during resto. What made me think it was steel was the amount of money he paid for the glass one, he told me they only made 100 of the glass X-Ram hoods which is the reason it was also rather costly. I didnt get a chance to see you before we left Meadowbrook, Bill and I wanted to tell you that you guys did a great job with the show! I will be down some time next week, if you are in town I will stop in and say hi.
Take Care,
Matt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[TimJ]

hi jeff; I'm from vancouver b.c. on the west coast and both the Z-28 and the copo were sold new here.There were 4 copos sold in b.c. only 2 are still here,the other 2 are in L.A.

[JChlupsa]

Aloha and thanks for the Info, Theres a twin to your car here thats undergoing a complete resto right now. Only difference in this Garnet Red Z is in addition to what yours has also has the Liquid Tire chain option. Yes along with the JL8 and Steel GM Crossram hood and all the correct GM items to fit under it. Car was just sold this past year and now with its 2nd owner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

This cars ID is 124379N606267 close to yours at all ???

[JoeC]

Jim, could the original steel cowl induction 2x4 hoods have been built by Chevy engineering prototype shop? The reason I ask is because I have a 1970 Camaro cowl induction hood built by Chevy engineering prototype shop and it looks like a production unit but it of course was never in production. The sheet metal looks like it was formed with some type of tooling as the form work is very well done. Could the 1969 steel cowl induction 2x4 hoods have been built by the prototype shop using a low volume process just to make a few until the fiberglass hoods became available?

[Jim Mattison]

I know that only a very few 1970 cowl hoods were made. You have a "very" rare piece indeed! Yes, the 1970 Camaro cowl hoods were hand-made at the GM Tech Center. They were supposed to be for the drag race guys, mainly Jenkins, and a couple of others. The cowl hood on the 1970 Camaro would give more clearance for the carb and air cleaner assembly. As such, they could get more horsepower!

I don't know for sure why they never went into production, but I heard a rumor that the folks from Chrysler were protesting them as giving Chevy an unfair advantage.

As for the steel '69 cross-ram hoods, I believe that they were made from production steel hoods. An outside vendor was hired to put the inner structure in them.

Jim Mattison

[68z302]

tim69427,

Were all 4 of those COPO's sold at Mussallem Chev Olds in Haney B.C.?
I believe they also brought in some L89's in '69.
Do you know if anyone's tracked these down? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Rob

[COPO PETE]

At least one was sold at Reuben Buerge Motors in Nelson BC.
Peter

[68z302]

copopete
That would make sense, I thought mussallem had only brought in 3 COPO cars with Buck Kinney's encouragement.
Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[TimJ]

68z28 hi,my z-28 was sold new at mussallem motors and i believe they sold 2 copo camaros a hugger orange m-21 and a daytona yellow one which is headed to L.A. to join the orange one.a blue one was sold from pacific gmc and mine which is the last one listed on ed cuneen's site (vin 664)was sold from mander chev-olds in north vancouver the copo chevelle they sold is being restored locally also.

[Jeff Murphy]

Mander became Dick Irwin didn't it? On Marine in North Van? I didn't know they had sold any COPOs. I thought they had only done conversion cars and that the COPOs had come from Mussallem.

I'm from West Vancouver originally and would love to get my hands on either a Mander COPO or conversion car if you happen to know where any may be or when they might be for sale (in particular the Chevelle). My uncle who still lives in the area (who incidentally is a big W-31 Olds guy that Casey Marks and Rob Clary happen to know) was aware of the Mander conversion cars back in the late sixties but wasn't aware of any COPOs.

How cool would it be to have a COPO from your local dealer!!!! PM or e-mail me if you like...

[COPO PETE]

Hi tim69427. If ya get a moment, shoot me a e-mail!
Peter

[TimJ]

Hi Jeff, yes I grew up in the edgemont village and now live in the British properties,I was only 12 in 1969 but remember seeing them race by the kings burger joint.Unfortunately most of the cars got cleaned out of here in the early nineties by car curbers (including 2 L-88 corvettes) ,you hardly even see a duster 340 anymore.Maybe you can help me,i'm trying to locate a yellow hemi road runner that used to live around lonsdale avenue;My e-mail is [email protected]

[JoeC]

whats a Hemi? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Jeff H]

The steel crossram hoods I've seen pictures of look like regular 4 bbl cowl hoods with a different insert welded to mate with the crossram air cleaner. Good information guys, thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif