Z28/JL8 F Sale

[NEW]

Is this to bad if it can be documented??

http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/cyber/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db _id=22763&exact_match=on&photo_size=full

NEW

[MosportGreen66]

Don't waste your time with a NOM car. There are original engine cars with documents out there.

-Dan

[NEW]

NOPE, i wont spend any money on this car, i®ve got one Z, thats enough for me!

NEW

[shor]

Dan, What is an NOM car?
Why is an NOM car a wate of time?

[CWilliams]

NOM is non-origninal matching or something close to that I think.

[68z302]

I believe that's "non original motor" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
There's a lot of "play" room in how cars are listed.
You'll see "numbers matching" in some listings even if it's not the original engine.
Of course they do that with correct numbered date stamps for the parts, which is the next best thing. There's probably a lot of cars with "original engine" restamped blocks around for those higher value cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[MosportGreen66]

I often use the term "original numbers matching" .... this makes way for no mistake when you think the classic your purchasing has an original motor.

[COPO]

Wow, I guess my 69 Baldwin Motion Camaro is a waste of time because it is NOM, come to think of it so are all the '67 and '68 Yenko Camaros along with the '69 Yenko Novas and all the Dick Harrell cars........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[68z302]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Mr70]

COPO
Are You a SuperChevy Judge? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hvychev]

All people with non original motor cars should have them crushed or run them off a cliff............... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[T Billigen]

We sure would'nt have a lot of "Super Cars" if you crushed all the NOMs!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[68z302]

The perfect match.
Re-uniting an engine to the original body.
I LOVE those stories. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I guess my 69 Baldwin Motion Camaro is a waste of time because it is NOM, come to think of it so are all the '67 and '68 Yenko Camaros along with the '69 Yenko Novas and all the Dick Harrell cars........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


If you did not know what I meant then shame on you. I was referring to regular production vehicles. Wait a second, I thought the Super Cars were called COPA cars...
Central Office Production Accidents.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

-Dan

[NEW]

I think there is lots of cars that has®nt the original engine in it, but they®ve put one numbers correct, with broach marks and all the goodies in it, and restamped it.

It®s hard to tell, and after it has changed hands a couple of times it is considered very much likely a matching numbers car!!

NEW

[COPO]

OK, I was being a bit sarcastic as obviously all of the cars I mentioned were originally transplant cars and hence would not be "numbers matching" While #'s matching is nice and adds some value, the Supercars we talk about on this board have tremendous value with or without the original engine. As far as corvettes go, I would venture to guess half the "numbers matching" cars are restamps which is especially common in the corvette ranks.

Rick, "Super Chevy Judge" man that's a low blow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MosportGreen66]

COPO,

Your very right about the Corvettes.

Food for thought -- there were 3,000 1967 CORVETTE 427/435 TRI-POWER CARS ORIGINALLY BUILT FROM GM .... in the NCRS ALONE THERE ARE 13,000 REGISTERED 1967 CORVETTE 427/435 TRI-POWER CARS.

DO THE MATH, 1 IN EVERY 3 1967 TRI-POWER CORVETTES IS A FAKE.

-Dan

[NEW]

I agree its nice, or even best if its numbers matching, but if you think abt. the purpose of the cars, and the guys buying, and driving them, you®ll have to expect that some things blew up.

I bougth a Berger HOT ROD edition, and have been checking and reading the various LS 1 forums, THEY BREAK PARTS, and in 30 years, someone will arrange it so it is at least matching numbers on that cars as well.(dates, correct numbers, and parts)

NEW

[Charley Lillard]

I'm curious as to where the NCRS has that 13000 # listed.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Do the math again.

[JoeC]

In my opinion original engine is not as big a deal today as it was years ago on some cars depending on the capability of the car to document itself. In the old days an original engine code with the cars vin stamped on the block (that was not restamped) was good to used to document that car.
Today people want more documentation then nice looking stamped numbers because of the high quality of re-stamped engine/vin numbers. There are also too many stories of people buying cars that were said to have original engine but find out later, after finding original owner, that the engine was replaced early in the cars life (especially solid lifter 4sp cars). A car like a Yenko can be documented by its vin and trim tag and the original engine is of course great to have but not needed to document the car. On the other hand a car like a 68 Z/28 is difficult to document so an original engine with correct codes and vin is more important to help document the car. Today you can purchase a correct date block that is restamped and some restampers are very good and hard to tell their work from original. A lo mile car with well documented history and all original components will always have a high value. I think it is a different story with restored cars with unknown history. It is difficult to tell if engine is really the original or a well done restamp job. Just my opinion.

[68z302]

That figure of 13000 tri-powered Corvettes is incredible!
Can you imagine how many '69 z28's are fakes too? If you were going to you'd fake the high value cars because of the profit margin. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Tri-powered Corvettes & z/28 Camaro's were the more known "valued" cars among the uninformed general public & there was a demand for them.
To me a '68 z/28 without the original engine is just another Camaro & the prices reflect that.
Yenko's are worth less without their original or a counter exchange engine in them are they not? (still alot of money though).
Dealer swapped engines like Baldwin/Motion cars had are probably easier(?) than factory cars as they rarely had the original engine in them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
We can only imagine how many "special high performance" GM engines were scattered over the streets & tracks accross North America /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif to be replaced by who knows what after the warranty ended.
I'm sure when Mr. Mattison is done there will be a lot of crying out there as well as a few law suits. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Seattle Sam]

!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ten out of 13 435-horse cars would be fake (more than three of every four)!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[69rsz28]

Thanks for the new perspective guys. My desire to own a numbers matching anything just fell off a cliff. A restoration with the correct parts would seem to be sufficient and would cost a lot less. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jeff H]

I still think an original engine car is worth quite a bit more than an NOM car. It's all up to the individual person what they are looking for and comfortable with. I'd prefer #'s matching with documentation, #'s matching would be second, documented NOM then finally an X code car with NOM. The price difference for an X77 Z28 in this example could be a $15-20K spread. But there are obviously other variables that come into play like the mileage, overall condition and amount of matching components.

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think an original engine car is worth quite a bit more than an NOM car. It's all up to the individual person what they are looking for and comfortable with. I'd prefer #'s matching with documentation, #'s matching would be second, documented NOM then finally an X code car with NOM. The price difference for an X77 Z28 in this example could be a $15-20K spread. But there are obviously other variables that come into play like the mileage, overall condition and amount of matching components.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Charlie,

The NCRS documents every car they judge. Over the 25+ years of the NCRS they have judged 13,000 tri-power 1967 Corvettes.

[TimG]

Do you mean 13,000 different 435 Corvettes, 13,000 435 Corvettes for all three years the option was available?
I have had the same car judged many times at an NCRS event.

[MosportGreen66]

I am only talking about the 1967 Tri-Power cars. If the car has been judged more then once, it is already on file due to its prior judging.

[LeMans Blue X77]

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] I'm sure when Mr. Mattison is done there will be a lot of crying out there as well as a few law suits.


Amen Brother,

Is there any news on when Mr. Mattison maybe ready to share his findings with us?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif