"BLACK WIDOW"

[69L72RS]

Does anyone have any info on the 57' fulie factory race cars that were nicknamed "BLACK WIDOW"?
The guy says the car has 283 fulie/4-spd/ and 6 lug axles???? from the factory.
Am I getting a BS story on this car before I make him an offer?

Thanks
Eric /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Yes there were Black Widows like described but there are a bunch of Fakes out there so look for paperwork or Price it accordingly.

[737Driver]

Eric,

As is typical about most things, my knowledge of those cars limited. I read a post recently concerning the 57 Black Widows. They, supposedly, all started life as 150 6 cylinder 3 speeds. Vince Piggins ran a clandestine operation in ATL called Sedco. There, these 40 (?) cars were all converted to 283 fuelies with heavy duty suspensions. These mods were made to satisfy NASCAR requirements. For what, I don't know. I'm sure others here, will.

Regards,

Mark Donnally

[Chevy454]

Lillard's right...LOTS of clones out there. They used the 150 "businessman coupe", which meant no back seat, no roll down windows, and I *think* the 3 speed was standard. They were built for NASCAR. Very light, like under 3200 pounds.

[ORIGLS6]

Again..going strictly from memory at the moment; I think they were 4 speed cars. As I recall that's the only 4 speed passenger car for '57. Four gears were available in the Corvette for '57 but not in the sedans. Yes they did have six lug wheels front and rear. I believe they used a 3/4 ton truck rear axle and used the six lug hubs and brake drums on front for extra stopping power. They also used the 'bucket' seat from the sedan delivery.

[55chevy]

I could have sworn they were all 3 on the tree cars... I've read articles on them before and I could almost swear I remember the shift being on the column. I'll look on this more later.

[69L72RS]

Thanks guys for all the info and warnings about fakes ( Charley and Rob ).
I will let you know how the car checks out and whether or not I get it.
Where did you guys learn so much about so many different musclecars? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif
You are my new heroes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif
Thanks again.
Eric

[55chevy]

check out this link. I was right about the column shifter

http://community-1.webtv.net/stevelawson/1957NASCARCHAMPION/

[ORIGLS6]

I stand corrected! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif If I had read a little further on the "57 Heaven" site I would have seen their notes about the 3 speed trannys too. I guess the 4-speed deal was just a combination of poor memory and wishful thinking on my part!

I did remember that NASCAR outlawed the F.I. early on and that the cars ran with single four barrels. Sure would like to see one done as a 270 HP though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dennis

[JoeG]

There is a great photo and info article on a FI -'57 Black Widow in Legend Series Musclecars 1989---I can't bring it up on screen ,but if someone wanted the article, I could mail it to them,and maybe they could post it?.This one is the 283hp version of the FI 283.----------JoeG

[Pantera]

Did you catch the "150" ragtop? I was into cars then and never saw one?

[Chevy454]

I stopped by my dyno guy's shop today, and picked his brain about the '57 150 cars.

He was the second owner of a 150 businessman's coupe, not long after 1957. 3 on the tree, no rear seat (small platform instead), hi-po 283...can't remember if it was injected or not. Anyway, he said it was WAY light to begin with, but he put glass hood/fenders on it and got it down to 2650! He ran 12.20s with it in the early '60s, and gave a LOT of the big block cars fits. Oh, and that was with a 2 barrel! Funny story...he had been racing it in either a stock or superstock class at some local tracks, and was consistently taking home the money. Well, the original engine got tired, so he built another one and put it in, but he had one cylinder that wasn't sealing and was puffing smoke. But, he ran it anyway, and won again. This time, the other racers got together and wanted his engine tore down, so he obliged. They determined he was well within the rules, but this gave him a chance to check out his sealing problem, and he found out his rings had turned. In so many words, he told them all thanks for paying him to tear his engine down (they put up money on the protest, but he was legal, so he kept the cash) so he could fix his problem, and go even faster! Ironically enough, one of his fellow racers that night is known by about everyone on this board. Now, I won't name any names, but he's an original owner of a '68 G-H Nova.../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Mr70]

Good Story.
Are his Initials RM?

[William]

Hot Rod did an article on a real Black Widow found in Texas some years ago. It was the SEDCO 'mule', not raced at that time but eventually drag-raced. They recently commented on the 6-lug hubs/axles. They were not truck parts but heavy-duty pieces developed for limo/airport bus conversions, impossible to find today.

[John Brown]

Eric, here's the HOW-TO book Chevrolet put out on the "Black Widow" 57's. (see attchment) Reprints are available.

[John Brown]

Here's an original 57 business coupe trim tag. Notice the "B" after the body style #. This car even came with the Hugger Orange /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif special order paint!

[ORIGLS6]

I've seen a couple of 150 Convertibles in the past few years; even one done as a Black Widow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Another car that never existed! All convertibles were BelAirs. Kinda like the BelAir Sedan Deliveries you see now. Never made 'em!
DC

[Chevy454]

I'm gonna apologize in advance, but I'm venturing off topic...

Hey Bill! Am I to *assume* you made it back home in one piece?! It was great meeting you and Bob...I'll try and look for him around town from now on!

Ok, back to the 150 talk!

[William]

Yes Rob made it home just fine, thanks. Spent Sunday evening in St Louis, had driven direct to Bob's Friday. Alton is a looong ride from here! We had a nice visit, caught a fish - my first!

It was a pleasure meeting you and seeing the cars. Should you ever be in town you have a friend in Milwaukee.

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an original 57 business coupe trim tag. Notice the "B" after the body style #. This car even came with the Hugger Orange /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif special order paint!

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be that truck color, "Omaha Orange"...as possibly also seen on Kevin's Dana (oh yeah, now I need to say, "Kevin's <font color="blue"> '68 </font> Dana")

-Sam

http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/Supercars/68Dana/68Dana-1.jpg

[69L72RS]

Here are some more details that I got from the guy about the car. I am beginning to get the feeling that it is a cobbed together fake. He still swears it came with a cast iron T-10. It has two round ducts coming from the headlight buckets, which he claims is the proof it is real. It has a cage in it that he thinks was added by his uncle.
The rear doesn't have a driveshaft, but some kind of torque-tube setup??? He also says that the windows crank up and down, (Weren't the windows locked in place?)
This car is located outside of Greenville Ohio. Has anyone already seen or heard of this car before I waste a trip to look at it?
Thanks again.
Eric

[JoeG]

Here is some info off this article I have--Each rear wheel had double shock absorbers,The spare tire well was eliminated,Anchors for the seat belt and body harness were massive,the doors were designed to stay closed during a rollover or other mishap-----Hope this helps----------JoeG.

[John Brown]

Business coupe rear side windows were flat glass (no metal on bottom like wind up windows) mounted in a rubber channel, like the windshield and back glass.


.....color of the tag I posted really does look "hugger orange", but when I held the tag to the screen the picture was more yellow than orange.

The tag came off a junk yard Indiana &amp; Michigan Electric Company meter readers company car. I scavanged it 30 or so years ago to lighten up one of my drag cars. It was a fleet car and the only option was a recirculating heater. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif