View Full Version : Feelings on 4spd vs. auto
I was reading some of the post on here and another website, and noticed that there are a lot of automatic cars out there (both supercars and "reg." musclecars). I was curious as to what the general thinking is as to the value and desirability of each. Does a 4spd mean that much?
Daytona Yellow 69 Z/28
11-06-2003, 04:35 PM
I really dont know if there is a dollar differance between a stick & an Auto. car. I can say that rowing a 4-speed at 6500 rpm is a blast. I have recently reinstalled the 4-speed in my 68 SS/RS 396 after after about 20 years of running a Turbo 400 in the car. Now it seems like I cant hardly stay out of the throttle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
On almost every collectible car the market values a 4 speed car higher. On the supercars this could be $50,000+ difference.
COPO PETE
11-06-2003, 06:02 PM
While I agree and it has been proven time and time again, a 4 speed always gets more money. With all due respect $50,000 is pushing it quite a bit. I would think 5 to 10 grand depending on the car! The exception there might be a ZL-1 car.
The same goes for paint. A hugger orange or Daytona yellow will get you at least 5 to 10 grand more than a green one. Of course there are always exceptions!
Peter
I think there is at least a $50K diference between 4 speeds and autos for both ZL-1's and some BMotion cars. Sales in the not to distant past have borne this out. '69 Yenko Camaros might not have a $50K difference, perhaps more in the $20K to $30K range. Of course for more run of the mill muscle cars it would be only be several thousand.
camarojoe
11-06-2003, 10:07 PM
I would think it would make more difference on a car that is being bought to be driven. If its a show car that will rarely (or never) see street use, and only be driven in and out of a box trailer, it seems silly to pay 1000s and 1000s of dollars more for a 4 gear, now if you're buying a car to actually DRIVE, then yes, i could justify spending the extra cake for it. Personally, I prefer manual trannys, but I also know of some pretty bad assed automatic supercars, and don't consider them to be worth far less than if they were 4 speeds.
Born30YrsLate
11-06-2003, 10:13 PM
To me...the musclecar era was about powerful motors and 4-speeds...automatic euipped cars just don't have as much personality (my personal opinion). You can't match the feeling of slamming through the gears on a 4 speed (even though well built automatics can shift quite hard).... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
T Billigen
11-06-2003, 10:38 PM
I'll bet there is more matching number "Super Cars" that are automatic than 4-speeds! Those old 4-speeds were a lot harder on parts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
As well as the inexperienced owners who tried shifting them.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
I grew up shifting gears manually, and loved 4speeds with Hurst/comp shifters, but there was that Torquefite Trans. that was doing a job on 4speeds on the street and when GM Hooked up that M40 to it's solid/lifter engines--4speeds were getting beat in street races more often.--Plus you didn't break things as much as you would racing a 4speed.--Now all that said ,I still luv driving/shifting a good stick
JoeG
DaJudge
11-07-2003, 01:38 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif I agree that autos can beat a 4 speed when you have mediocre drivers. But a 4 speed Musclecar/ Supercar is always worth 5 to 10 grand more than an automatic car.
Groovvyyyy Baaabbby Yea !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
I wasn't circling the wagons--just trying to give greg2001LS6 a possible reason for the high numbers of automatic supercars/musclecars--JoeG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
bkhpah
11-07-2003, 02:10 AM
This thread is crazy. Worth more, worth less. Give me a break. Every Gibb Nova and Gibb /Harrell Nova is an automatic. Are these not great cars? The Dana prepared Nova we are finishing is a CX turbo. Ever seen another one? 50,000$ less? I don't think so. Most of the Dick Harrell cars that are documented are automatics. Clary, its time to get rid of the automatic Camaro...BKH
camarojoe
11-07-2003, 02:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This thread is crazy. Worth more, worth less. Give me a break. Every Gibb Nova and Gibb /Harrell Nova is an automatic. Are these not great cars? The Dana prepared Nova we are finishing is a CX turbo. Ever seen another one? 50,000$ less? I don't think so. Most of the Dick Harrell cars that are documented are automatics. Clary, its time to get rid of the automatic Camaro...BKH
[/ QUOTE ]
well said Brian. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Tom and Rob, if its time to sell, I'll take that slushbox Daytona Yellow car off you guys at a 50k discount. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Clary, its time to get rid of the automatic Camaro...BKH
[/ QUOTE ]
Dang, just when it was starting to get fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif And there goes the DH funny car, 400 turbo as well. Good thing all of the '69 Novas were 4 speeds, otherwise I might may left to cruising in the Vega. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
On the serious side, I have not seen this wide range of price between autos and 4 speeds. In fact, most times, when contacted about the value of certain supercars, the transmission is of little importance to the interested buyer, compared to: a. type of car (B-M, Yenko, Nickey, etc), b. condition, c. originality, d. documentation, e. color/trim. Remember, more times then not, the buyer is not buying the car to drive/race.
I think the old idea that 4 spd cars are worth more is exactly that..an "old" idea..The guys that grew up with these types of cars are now older, in some cases much older...do they want to cruise in a car with a mechanical clutch? In some ways I actually prefer the auto from a collectibility standpoint..ie: less breakage, better chance of having original drivetrain, typically more options since the typical buyer had more money to spend when they bought the cars in the first place. I was just curious as to what the "gang" thought..
68l30
11-07-2003, 02:49 AM
One of my favorites is a DH Camaro column shift auto....Different is good..Must have been a very good reason for the 68 COPO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve
DaJudge
11-07-2003, 02:49 AM
I respect all Musclecars, but when rightious cars are sold the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif 4 speed cars always bring more money .
camarojoe
11-07-2003, 03:03 AM
I'd take this column shift auto any day! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
GTO_DON
11-07-2003, 03:25 AM
ID CUT A HOLE IN THE FLOOR AND PUT A ROCKCRUSHER IN IT AND /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif AT 7500 AND REALLY FEEL THAT SUCKER /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif JUST KIDDING!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Chevy454
11-07-2003, 03:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
...automatic euipped cars just don't have as much personality (my personal opinion).
Tom and Rob, if its time to sell, I'll take that slushbox Daytona Yellow car off you guys at a 50k discount.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, you wouldn't want our Camaro, it's only got 12.4 seconds worth of personality... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Born30YrsLate
11-07-2003, 03:53 AM
Rob - are you offering to take me for a ride or letting me take her for a spin! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The personality I'm talking about is that the car seems to be more responsive to the gas pedal as well as the driver when he has his a**hole pucker tighter than a clams a** when you miss a shift at high rpm...I guess you could do that in an automatic if you throw the shifter from 2nd to neutral on a manual shift.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
55chevy
11-07-2003, 10:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The Dana prepared Nova we are finishing is a CX turbo. Ever seen another one?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever seen ONE! Brian, got any pics of that thing you can share? Tell us about that Nova. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Jeff Murphy
11-07-2003, 11:49 PM
Why not get one of each? Then you've got the right answer for any given situation...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
Jeff, Good idea. I see you have a 4 speed, now all you need is an auto. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
bkhpah
11-08-2003, 12:52 AM
It's a documented Dana prepared 69 Nova SS 396/375. Called the Budget Racer by Dana. It's Olympic gold with black vinyl top and black bench seat. Numbers matching and original sheetmetal. Nothing like Southgate Calif. Car has Jardine headers Sun tach, SW gauges, glass hood and mags wheels with red lines, and Dana script letters. I have never seen another. It's almost in paint. Talked to Dick Goldstrand of Dana and original owner. Dana sold a few, but no others have been found. Just bought a digital camera. As soon as I figure it out I could post a lot of cool projects...BKH
T Billigen
11-08-2003, 01:06 AM
That Dana sounds like a neat car! I have always been a 4-speed lover but I would think the Automatics which are a lot rarer would be worth just as much or even more in these "Super Cars" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
Chevy454
11-08-2003, 01:19 AM
That's another interesting thought, Billigen. Yenko ordered fewer autos, thus making them rarer. But, here's a funny quote concerning rare/desirable from a fellow Pure Stocker (guess who, Casey!):
"It's rare that I $hit my pants...but that doesn't mean it's desirable!"
I *personally* don't see a difference, as I'm more concerned with color, vinyl top, etc. But, part of that may be because our "intended use" (as mentioned above) is considerably different than that of the vast majority of Supercar owners. My Chevelle is a 4-speed, and it pains me to think of how big of a pain in the @ss it's gonna be to launch it consistently on 6" wide Polyglass! Might not be too bad in a test 'n' tune environment, but imagine if I'm in a tie breaker at Stanton with a '69 1/2 Road Runner in the other lane! Talk about pressure! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Belair62
11-08-2003, 01:38 AM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif I'm gonna have to meet Casey someday...that line is priceless !!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif
T Billigen
11-08-2003, 02:22 AM
Try an aluminum flywheel, air bags, 90/10 shocks in the front and 50/50s in the back, you will be surprised at the traction you will get. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Try an aluminum flywheel, air bags, 90/10 shocks in the front and 50/50s in the back, you will be surprised at the traction you will get.
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Not legal at PS drags.
T Billigen
11-08-2003, 08:55 AM
Just massage the rules a little bit, thats what I did! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Just massage the rules a little bit, thats what I did!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, we could, but that is not what the PS drags are about, at least for most. To us, the challenge, and fun, is trying to go as quick as we can and still stay with in the "intent" of the rules. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
After all, who are you really cheating? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
T Billigen
11-08-2003, 03:08 PM
All kidding aside, you are right! When I raced just about everyone was doing something illegal. Back then you could get away with it. It cost 40.00 for a protest and you had to pull a head off. If you were found legal you kept the money. Most guys did not want to protest but I did see it occasionaly. For stock class you were allowed the items I mentioned above. I had the L-88 short block (with stock 427 pistons) and put all my L-78 items back on the engine and ran A/S and was never protested but I never ran near the record and the sponsered car were always a little faster than mine so know one had reason to protest. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
55chevy
11-08-2003, 06:37 PM
Brian, that Nova sounds awesome. I love gold paint on Muscle Cars. I think my favorite color combo has to be Harvest Gold with White stripes. Spend a few minutes and figure out that camera. I would love to see some pictures of those things. What style of hood is on that Nova? Is that a 4spd car? What's the history? Sounds awesome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif
Tom, you are right, that is racing, then and now. To compete, you are almost forced to cheat. But, that is what makes the group of guys that Rob hangs around with so special. They all want to go fast, and of course win, but because they value each others friendship and respect so much, they stay with in the spirit and intent of the rules.
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