TUNNEL PORT RA V

[Charles]

Milt Schornack tested the prototype GTO Judge at Miami Dragway. This car was painted orange. With half a tank of gas the car weighted 3640 pounds. The 800 CFM Holley was a major improvement on the old quadrajet carb. Though the intake manifold was a poor (tuned for 5000 RPM plus) design as a result of the low hood line requirement. Doug Thorley provided custom headers and the car was equipped with an M-21 and 4.88 gears. An aluminum flywheel did not prove up to the task however. The half dozen passes made started out with a 12.42 @ 113 run. The times continued to improve with a best time of 11.86 @ 116 MPH. A production run of 1500 cars was suggested and these would have the better M-22 transmission and heavy duty rear end parts.
"CARS" magazine wrote about another RA V car, tested in Florida with mfg. plate (GM 0750). This GTO was said to be the prototype for the line. They made excuses about it's poor performance saying the motor was tired but said it had 11 second potential.
There were even more exotic engines that Pontiac was testing and looking at for production. Included were SOHC and DOHC versions of future Pontiac engines. The energy crisis helped to kill those ideas.

[1971GTO428]

not to mention the 427 hemi charles.

[Belair62]

Was Mac MacKellar responsible for the RAV ? I read where he ran around the streets with an OHC 421 63 Prix...

[olredalert]

--------Ive seen that car at the POCI nationals.Very CQQL! I dont know the status of Mac today.Can anyone help? He was given that OHC car,or maybe the motor alone installed in the car,as a retirement present.I heard it run but never saw it agressively driven. Wish I had! Would it be fair to say Mac was a visionary,possibly a genius? A lot of Pontiac guys think so...........Bill S

[Bobcat]

The OHC 421 tri -power in Mac's car was a gift to him from GM after he retired. GM was going to scrap it along with others that Mac had built. There where several peices missing when Mac go the engine. The whole thing had to be rebuilt prior to installatiion. Many leaks. Mike Cimoli worked on it and found that the cams where on the wrong side. Corrected problems and ran ran like a champ. Mac continued to try different exhaust breathers etc. The '63 GP was reasently repainted. 2-3years ago.
I spoke to Mac this past Saturday. Do to his health he is not very comfortable. Pacemaker, lower back problem (failed low back surgery 10 years ago), and now burning feet. He can't function without much pain. He's most upset that he has'nt been able to work on his cars in 10 years.
Did you know Mac took a course in body work about 11 - 12 years ago? He was restoring a 1966 GTO convertible.
He is one of the most modist people you'll ever meet.

[Bobcat]

Loved that old 1970 Chevelle SS. Ertl sent me two of those a few years ago.

[Steve_Hoog]

Copo.. the main man with all the pics..... have you got any pics of this orange Judge other than the one in the Super Stock? There must be other photos of it, but the editor only used 1 in the article. Or maybe some one else has knowledge of where they may be.

[copo9566aa]

Copo.. the main man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif with all the pics..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Probably i have many old review /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Too many this is the problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

Well it would be REALLY sweet if you can post one of the rear of the car showing the spoiler and tag, plus a straight on front veiw.

I will owe you a favor /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[copo9566aa]

Steved
a Pepsi with this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

Man you drive a hard bargain, ok I owe you Pepsi. I'll even make it a free refill.

[copo9566aa]

I have many but the 10M-226 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JLP]

steved

I assume you are talking about the RA-V that was run in FL. I have 4 sets of pics of it but NONE are color. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gifSorry. These are the one with the unique paint scheme. If need be will try to post a couple. Jeffh has them too and he may be quicker. Having trouble reducing size. Trying to attach but still may be too big.

[Steve_Hoog]

This is the one I'm talking about.

RAV Testing (http://www.empgmc.com/race/ss691.jpg)

[JLP]

Sorry, Don't have that one.

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Copo.. the main man with all the pics..... have you got any pics of this orange Judge other than the one in the Super Stock? There must be other photos of it, but the editor only used 1 in the article. Or maybe some one else has knowledge of where they may be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve,

I have knowledge of where some of them are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. They are in my husbandís archives. As he stated before, Bill has dozens of actual original photos of that Judge in the article (with and without signs). Since you have ìburned your bridgesî with him, I doubt very much he would ever show them to you.

For the THIRD timeÖThat car in SUPER STOCK was a RAM AIR III, 4 spd car that belonged to Jess Jesen from Colonial Pontiac. It was NOT a ìspecial engineering carî nor was it the Lime GTO that was made into a Judge. Even though you do not appear to believe him, Jim Wangers, along with Milt and Dave (who were all there) have all confirmed this information through the years and their stories all correlate with each otherís on this topic. The magazine article is a modge-podge of data. The photo credit clearly shows ìPhotoís by GM Photographicî, so they were not taken by the magazine photographer. Take a look at that photo again, you will see that the Judge has MAG wheels and STICKERS all over it! Looking at Billís photos I can see this Judge has a Florida Dealer plate and a TRAILER HITCH! Does not sound much like an engineering car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif, unless they used it to tow their "RAM AIR V SPEEDBOAT" around Florida! LOL!

Over the past couple months (in previous threads on here), it has been proven (beyond a reasonable doubt) that there were no RA V motorís put in GTOís on the assembly line, nor were any installed in GTOís by engineering and sold to retail customers. The article with the JUDGE was mocked up for ìP.R.î purposes and before you askÖthere were NO Ram Air Vís put in Pontiac Astreís either! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Rita /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[GOAT72]

[quote
Over the past couple months (in previous threads on here), it has been proven (beyond a reasonable doubt) that there were no RA V motors put in GTOs on the assembly line, nor were any installed in GTOs by engineering and sold to retail customers. Rita

[/ QUOTE ]

Rita and all,
There was a question raised about Milt Schornack's website.
miltschornack.com (http://www.miltschornack.com)

On the website, (managed by his son Jim), they picture the RA-V GTO that they've finished building. (Note: he never "claims" it's a factory RA-V!) But the car is now being called a Ram Air VI! (six!)
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Anyway, in speaking with Mr. Schornack, he informed me that the "next rational step" in expanding on the RA-V WOULD HAVE been to upsize the engine to a 421 and change the cam, intake and exhaust ports. (Milt even had some insight into Pontiac's plans for a Ram Air VII !!!)

So, when Milt calls this car a Ram Air 6, it's because he had a very good idea what it WOULD have been.

Now.... anybody who knows GTOs/Pontiac SHOULD understand that a RA-VI or even a RA-VII are not "officially" a Pontiac set-up, because PMD never released them . So what Milt's doing is simply having some fun with his son.

I have a buddy who painted a '75 LeMans in Carousel Red, blacked-out the grill and tagged it with "The Judge" emblems. As butt-ugly as that car was-- it CERTAINLY was alotta fun to look at! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

In short (ha ha), please don't take Milt's RA-VI claim too seriously -- it's only meant to be fun!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

~GOAT72 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

If anyone is interested in seeing this, I could start posting it (about a dozen pages). Got it from a guy named Westley who bought a crate motor, I suspect it came with the motor.

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 1

[Steve_Hoog]

Belair

George DeLorean is credited with taken a set of Ford heads to Pontiac Engineers for development.

Two of the engineers that I know of at this point, were Jeff Young and Tom Nell.

There is a third that came along late in the program, that is helping research with me. I'll put up what he helps me with and who he is when it's finished.

Tom Nell is retired and the author of the attachments I made earlier today, he does not like to talk about it the past.

Jeff Young's last known where abouts, Colorado Springs in the hotel business.

Steve

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]
George DeLorean is credited with taken a set of Ford heads to Pontiac Engineers for development.

Two of the engineers that I know of at this point, were Jeff Young and Tom Nell.

There is a third that came along late in the program, that is helping research with me. I'll put up what he helps me with and who he is when it's finished.



[/ QUOTE ]

Steve,
Thanks for posting those, they are very interesting! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

G72 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 2

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 3

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 4

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 5

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 6

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 7

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 8

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 9

And the most interesting, no info is given as to what motor, when, cam, or any of this type stuff. Would be really something if it was done by Pontiac Engineering. If anyone recognizes the two names, please speak up.

[Steve_Hoog]

I've made some updates to my Ramair V page with the help from people in here and other net resources, might want to check some of it out.

Ramair V Page (http://www.azalea.net/%7Esteved/rav.htm)

[COPO_Anders]

I talked to a Swedish Pontiac guru a week ago about our RAII engine, and he mentioned that a guy with the name of Lawrienco (not sure about the spelling) used to dragrace a RAV engine in Sweden in the seventies. He has been searching for it for years. No one seems to know what happened with it when Lawrienco quit racing.

[GOAT72]

Deleted per Goat72

[GOAT72]

This proof sheet shows both cars staged and/or running at Miami Dragway in Feb. of 1969.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/Goatman72/schor_miami.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[JLP]

You may want to go here for more information as this was discussed earlier and some of the pics you are showing were either in mag's back in the day and in 1 case they were in a Pontiac book put out by Motion in Baldwin, NY. I think I sent someone (Jeff?) or Steved the pic's I have.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post154491 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Othermuscle&Number=154491& Searchpage=1&Main=105579&Words=Ram+Air+&topic=&Sea rch=true#Post154491)

[Steve_Hoog]

I have all those pics and more, but not from anyone in Yenko.

Keith... I also have engine shots. The Judge has what appears to be a 68 RAII motor; also if I'm not mistaken without my material in front of me, it is the one with the prototype Judge spoiler that isn't quite like production.

I have heard several people claim it is a Wangers conversion from a Limelight green regular 69. Does that fall in line with what you have been told?

[Steve_Hoog]

I have three or four different sets of pics, different race sessions. The Judge in the set you posted definitely has a pic from the rear showing the prototype spoiler.

From another session; again with the blue car and prototype spoiler, an engine shot clearly shows what would turn out to be a RAII if the codes could be read.

Nothing of significance, just interesting how they swapped engines in and out of those cars like running water.

[GOAT72]

Deleted per Goat72

[Steve_Hoog]

I take it you haven't seen the engine pic that I have with the RAII and "definite" prototype Ramair system, I'll post it tonight. Very interesting stuff.

They may have had one or more of these proto Judges that ran in the Wangers/Royal circles, that is the only thing I have never figured out from the pictures.

The Firebird being the only car to have the V in it, that is what I have heard too.

You know of course this will bring the fury of the Shultz's down on you?

[69GTODave]

I'm new to the site and I just started following this thread...interesting info here.... That car has always interested me... So, are you saying the Schultz car never had a RA-V when it was in Miami and all the data was faked or invented ?

[Steve_Hoog]

Keith

I came home at lunch and was about to scan the pics, when upon looking closer I noticed a battery cable going to the right side. This is an article spear headed by Milt; at least that is who is credited, on the blue car and Judge's performance. In the mix of photos, they have one proto Ramair system, and one full engine shot. Then several of the blue car and Judge, the engine is for sure a RAII but now I believe it's a dumped in the article Firebird compartment shot. For what purpose to mock up an engine shot, I have no clue. Looks like the Ramair shot may indeed be the Judge (clone), maybe?

Geez in light of Dave's question, conflicting things I've already heard, and what you said...... one could only imagine if the truth will ever be known.

[69GTODave]

Steve
I'm really interested to see where this all leads...in the end though, my guess is that it will come down to whose version of the 'truth" you want to believe... Until recently, I always took the "story" of this car portrayed by the 2 or 3 magazine articles I have and Wangers' book for face value... seems as though that was a mistake, as there appear to be more questions about this (these) car(s) than answers.... I'm anxious to see some more responses to this, as like you, I'd really like to know.

[Steve_Hoog]

Keith

I was just re reading this and looking back to see what I might have missed.

And BAM, the first two pics you posted have TWO Judges in them. One has the Thrust wheels similar to if not the exact car I posted way back up there from the magazine article.

I assume you were well on top of this. So what's the scoop? Is one of those the green car JW talks about?

[DaJudge]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/Icons/stirthepot.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

Hey.... Keith started this one.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[yellowjudge]

Wonder what happened to the 69 bird?

[Steve_Hoog]

What's funny is you hear about this Firebird over and over, yet it's not in any of the group photos? I have a 69 Drag Racing that has an article on a 69 Bird RAV that is probably it, I'll re read it later and see. I believe it was a two tone-ish blue car, maybe. Then there was an orange one that everyone goes on about.

I have other photos from what appears to be the same session as Keith, it has a light colored 65 in it. I believe that 65 GTO was in another magazine article with the Warren brothers.

Lots of loop holes in this whole story. The one thing I have heard several times, is there was only one partial pass made, in one car, with one motor.

So now I'm with Dave, did some one make up the rest of the story and figures?

[Steve_Hoog]

OK.... here are the goods.

With the Leader Engineering lettering, that would make this George's car. Safe assumption.

Obviously this car was in Florida, and had a RAV in at. Hopefully at the same place and time.

JW's Grand Prix and one of the two Judges are now at the same place and time. Proof is in the pic.

One page in the July 1969 Drag Racing (http://www.empgmc.com/race/dra.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/race/drb.jpg

[tjs44]

it had a RA IV lower pan on it.Tom

[GOAT72]

Sorry, we were talking about the Judges and I mentioned those 2 different sets of wheels already.

I did not think, for a second, that this discussion was about the Schultz's car and therefore did not include it in my comments concerning RA V the test cars.

So, if I "started something" I apologize and assure everyone that I was only posting those photos for the enjoyment of everyone.

I have met Mr. &. Mrs. "Billy Bobcat" and they are very nice people and good friends.

steved: I was trying to help keep the RA V discussion "lively" and really didn't care for the direction it was steered.

Sheesh.

Thanks to those who "alerted" me about what happened to this thread!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DaJudge]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/Icons/bump.gif Now back to the RA V topic, I found this Motor Trend June of 69 article on the Trans Am and the 303 RA V Motor, Check it out

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page51.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page53.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page54.jpg

[DaJudge]

If you save the images to your hard drive and view the pages with your photo viewer and zoom in you will be able to read these just fine. I could not get Photobucket to resize them large enought to be read within the body of the post.

[DaJudge]

Sorry about that guys, let me try that one more time, I think I am going crazy http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/Icons/image_294343.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page51.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page53.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/L67WT1/RA%20V/page54.jpg

[Steve_Hoog]

Dajudge... It's not working. If you can send me bigger files, I can load up.

Who are the people involved with these cars? Tom Goad had a car like that?

[email protected]

[tjs44]

I would like to see a larger pic of the X ram engine on the dyno.I have a X ram setup and am interested in the linkage.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Another page from Drag Racing July 1969. I believe I made the mistake of saying this car may be blue, some one told me a while back it was red. I hope that's right, hard to tell from black and whites. And I think some one else may have posted this particular picture some time back.

Drag Racing Page (http://www.empgmc.com/race/dc.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/race/dd.jpg

[DaJudge]

Sorry about that the pics are 6 megs a piece. They took about 5 minutes apiece for photobucket to upload. I will resize and do another upload tonight when I get home as the scanned images reside in my home PC.

Mike

[Steve_Hoog]

RAV related, Brian Steinbrick wrote an email to better explain the letter sent to his father from GM. Has some very cool history in it.

Warpath Page (http://www.empgmc.com/race/rav/brian/brian.htm)

[StealthBird]

Steve, it was probably me that stated that the RAV car from Drag Racing Magazine was red with white stripes. I based this on a comment in the article that the car had a 350HO in it before the RAV transplant. The Super Stock Magazine issue had this 69 Firebird 350HO on the cover (in color), and this appears to be the same car as the RAV version. It was red with white stripes, white accents on the hood, lower rear quarter panels, and tail panel. The test of the 350HO car was before the RAV test.

It appears the car was built as a 350HO, not a 400, based on the fact that it did not have the Firebird 400 chrome grille trim surrounds, and the Firebird 400 only Pontiac arrowhead emblem on the front bumper. It appears that the ROYAL lettering on the door changed slightly between these two tests. But the miscellaneous contingency stickers over the rear wheelwells, and a few more on the fenders, are in the exact same positions between the two versions of this car, and the paint job is exactly the same (minus the 400 hood on the RAV test). Therefore, I'm pretty sure these were the same cars.

Personally, I like the 69 Firebird 455HO PMD Engineering Test Car. That was Carousel Red with 455 emblems. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

Mike

The reason the lettering changed was because Ace would only allow a certain variation of the team name to be carried over to George's efforts, so I was told.

But yes I do remember now that it was you.

I would love to see color photos of both the cars you are talking about, I only have b/w copies of the magazine articles.

[DaJudge]

Here's a link to another article that I scanned. It from the Oct 69 Motor Trend. Thanks for the link Steve


http://www.empgmc.com/race/rav/Page61.jpg

[KS Pontiac]

Cool article Mike, what ever happened to the car that you got with the article? And why won't you answer any emails?

[DaJudge]

Hi Dave sorry for not returning the e-mails. The car is in safe hands as I traded it for a car that I felt was more desirable... at least to me. The TA is in the hands of a collector and the article and paperwork you gave me went with the car. I scanned them in for my own future reference. Send me a pm with your phone number so that we can catch up. Best regards Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Steve_Hoog]

This October 1970 Hot Rod was brought to my attention over on the PY board because of the Hemi Pontiac motor on the cover, I'll post the article on that motor next.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrodcovert.jpg

Full Size (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrodcover.jpg)

But while looking through the magazine, the staff covered all the 71 cars coming out and evaluated them. Found an interesting mention on RAV.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod39rav.jpg

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod39t.jpg

Full Size (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod39.jpg)

[Steve_Hoog]

Here is the goods on the Pontiac Hemi, looks like it had some RAV stuff or ideas.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod44t.jpg

Page 44 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod44.jpg)
Page 45 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod45.jpg)
Page 46 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod46.jpg)
Page 47 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod47.jpg)
Page 48 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod48.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod47a.jpg
http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod48a.jpg

[Steve_Hoog]

In this July 1969 Super Stock, it is claimed that this Judge is "the one" that was tested in Florida with the RAV motor. Take a close look at the two engine shots included within the article, take a close look at the shroud on page 35 and the sub frame on 70 and see what kind of car you think the engine shots are from. Notice also the extra webbing in the lifter valley which makes it a RAV block.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69superstockt.jpg

Full Size Cover (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69superstock.jpg)

Page 34 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss34.jpg)
Page 35 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss35.jpg)
Page 70 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss70.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss35a.jpg

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss70a.jpg

[Steve_Hoog]

October 1984 Car Craft, Pontiac SOHC. Another what if motor, very cool.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraftcovert.jpg

Full Size Cover (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraftcover.jpg)

Page 45 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraft45.jpg)
Page 47 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraft47.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraft47a.jpg

[tjs44]

steve,get the mar 1968 hotrod if you really want to see what the factory had on the drawing board.Mac is on the cover with many great engines along with many internals on the inside.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

I'm on it!

[Steve_Hoog]

Tom

Do you know if the RAV had a unique oil filter adapter in relation to the IV and the rest of the Pontiac adapters?

[tjs44]

the only reason you would need a special adapter is for castiron exhaust.I would LOVE to know!LOL,Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

There is an angle I'm working on that concerns the adapter. I didn't see one on Brian's parts list, so I was hoping you or Lance would know if there is a special adapter.

Yes I would think manifolds would create a special need, but chances are the IV or HO adapter would have addressed the issue.

[tjs44]

I think I used the long branch adapter on the GTO to allow the longer filter.The T/A has a short deck which is completetly diff as the filter screws right onto the block.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

This is a slight departure from the thread, just an interesting dyno test I found from 69.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phrcovert.jpg

Full Size Cover (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phrcover.jpg)

Page 44 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr44.jpg)
Page 45 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr45.jpg)
Page 46 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr46.jpg)
Page 47 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr47.jpg)
Page 48 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr48.jpg)
Page 49 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr49.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr350ho.jpg

[Steve_Hoog]

Page 97 from Feb 69 PHR (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr97.jpg)

[Steve_Hoog]

Tom

This one's for you, if you haven't seen it before. April 1983 High Performance Pontiac.

Wanger, RAV, 1 of 13 Swiss cars, and Aluminum frames.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp24t.jpg

Page 24 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp24.jpg)

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp25t.jpg

Page 25 (http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp25.jpg)

[tjs44]

I think that is the car that Bill Blair now ownes.I bought the engine out of it a few months ago.It had a factory intake with a dominator when I got it.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

I was just about to ask Mr. Glasgo if he knew the current on the car since is was suppose to be in Ohio with the Heck Brothers.

[Belair62]

Tom...the Demetri car had plexiglass

[tjs44]

when I saw the Demitri car it had a auto,plexy and the battery in the trunk.That was before it was "snaked" from under me!LOL

[tjs44]

The Heck boys STILL have the alu frame,I really dont think it was under a car.PJ told me it was hanging in the barn.When I was a Bills,the Swiss Cheese car was there with the V engine in it.I bought the engine a few months ago and resold it to Larry Crosby in AZ.He is looking for a 69 bird to put it in.Bill was putting a 421 SD engine back in the SC car.Tom

[Belair62]

It left here with a proper 4 speed..according to emitri the t400 came out of Mr Unswitchable !! I think that was the name..I would up throwing the damn thing out..I couldn't give it away !http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[johnta1]

Here's a link to an article on RA V Hemi head tractor puller.
Hemi Tractor (http://www.wallaceracing.com/hemi-tractor-story1.html)

[tjs44]

it has a pontiac block with M/T hemi heads,has NOTHING to do with RA Vs!Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Tom don't beat up the new guy. You never know, his cousin may be Linda Vaughan.

That's a cool tractor regardless, I'd drive it. At least once.

[johnta1]

OK.

Here's some more RA V articles, including the non RA V tractor. Some have been posted here before.

RA V articles (http://www.wallaceracing.com/RAV-articles.html)

[Steve_Hoog]

John

How long ago did you start with the Pontiacs? And what got you started?

[johnta1]

Really got into it in 74 when I bought my 70 Formula.
Owned many Birds since.
Couldn't afford anything like the RA V, so do a lot of reading.
Probably got about every Pontiac article written since about 73, just hard to look thru them all.

[Steve_Hoog]

That's cool, I still have my first car too.

I have always been amazed by the V, had a couple of chances to get heads but look at the mess I would have created for myself if I'd got hooked on that!!!

[tjs44]

Steve,Johns just a new guy here!He has great info on his site.The tractor belongs to Jack from the PY site.It also has a early pontiac alu block under the heads.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Yeah I'd seen him around PY.

Did you see the naughty pic of Linda before the link stopped working?

I'll see if the pics are in my cache and put them on my server. I bet the server they are on has a download threshold and Yenko over ran it.

[tjs44]

John,it is interesting over the years how much stuff was written and pics published that were incorrect.For example the pic of the V engine from Bauman(spelling) shows a 400 engine with 303 exhaust manifolds and does not have a V balancer on it.Also there are pics of RA V 400 blocks that are actually 303 blocks.The 303 besides the shorter deck have smaller mains(2 1/2)and is missing the reinforcing rib on the thrust side of the block I believe.It also has a filled in lifter bore area like a SBC.Also the blower block of Arnis that I have personally seen was a 3 1/4 main with splayed caps more like a 455SD than a 400 RA V block.VERY stout piece.Bill Blair has the one I actually saw.Keep up the good work,try and get the Mar 1968 Hot Rod for even MORE great pontiac developmental engines.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

I'll make my high bid in the last seconds. If I don't get this one, will try again.

Linda started coming up again.

Ebay Hot Rod (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6983062443&ssPage Name=STRK:MEBI:IT)

[johnta1]

Tom, actually I have it somewhere. Haven't read it for a few years.
Will try to find it.

[Steve_Hoog]

http://i1.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/30/56/8d_1.JPG

[tjs44]

thats the one,now look at the exhaust ports on the bottem right motor,NO turn down ports,looks like RA V the way they needed to be.There are some pics inside that were done for the mag shoot as convent intake put on ind.tunnel port heads but some GREAT R&D stuff.You will have fun with this one.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

Haven't got it yet. I found this one last night with one other old mag on Ebay, so the price and demand hopefully won't be as heavy on the bidding. Ends in 7.5 hours.

[gtoguru]

Last time I saw the aluminum frame it was hanging on the wall at Vances place in Marion,Ohio. But that was quite a few years ago. Jim

[Steve_Hoog]

Hot Rod Magazine 2 issues july '65 march '68 Gto Hemi Item number: 6983221057


You won the item!

[Steve_Hoog]

Jim

Do you think they still have the aluminum frame and it might be for sale?

[tjs44]

saw Vance in aug.Still has it and is not for sale at this time.Im sure if the offer is high enough,ANYTHING is for sale.Tom

[Belair62]

It would make a beautiful cocktail table !!!

[Steve_Hoog]

I can think of a couple of real car ideas to do with the frame.

But just how much would something like that be worth, I think that's the real question.

[johnta1]

Posted the Mar 68 Hot Rod to my web site.
Pontiac OHC V8 (http://www.wallaceracing.com/ohc-v8-cover.html)

Tom or Steve, do you know the writer Eric Dahlquist?
Maybe there are still color photos or more info he could provide?

[tjs44]

John,Dont know the guy.
You will notice some bogus pics if you look carefully.The pic of the 3 valve engine with the valve cover off is one.They show a bathtub intake with 3 throttle bodys that has conventional intake port layout,now look at the placement of the intake valve!They are seperated like a RA V tunnel port.I think that engine was the engine to proceed with,no push rod in the port,2 exhaust valves going into one port that has the flange cut off like a BBC instead of the "droop snute" roll over like a pontiac.Looks like they just put something unique looking on for the mag pic.Tom

[Steve_Hoog]

I haven't even gotten my copy of it yet from Ebay, and I'm not as old as Tom. So I doubt I will know him.

[tjs44]

im "old" and dont know him!LOL

[Steve_Hoog]

With age comes wisdom.

[Steve_Hoog]

Tom you mentioned three valve, think I may have finally gotten that magazine.... lol

That was only ten years ago.

http://www.428gto.com/gto/macb.jpg