up date kit fot 04 GTO

[Norm reynolds]

Arrowhead performance has a kit to up date thr 04 GTO notice the exhaust going out ahead of rear wheels

[Steve_Hoog]

Too bad GM isn't in tune with that, they usally take a year or two to catch on with new models.

[Norm reynolds]

I realy like the up date GM is missing the boat I whould think they would sell alot more GTOs that dont look like a
cavelier

[PxTx]

I think the GTO needs more HP as part of the update since the less expensive Japanese cars (read STI and EVO) are outperformaing them in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Not sure about the rest of the stats but with AWD I fear they may be on top of everything.

Is GM relying too much on the name to sell the cars? I have a tough time shelling out that kind of money for a less capable car.

Remember the 80's when a less expensive Buick was beating the Corvette in performance? Which do you think held its value better, the 87 Corvette or an 87 Grand National? At least back then it was all kept in the GM family.

[matt murphy]

GM is having Holden build as many GTO's as Holden can. That number is around 16,000 units a year. GM knows that is not enough to supply the demand. GM is probably holding back a bit on its advertisement because they know that the first two years of production are already sold out, to people that have deposits on them.

GM's new way of releasing vehicles is . . . get the first year out there and then bump the HP or add some new body style features or car line over the next few years. The Vette was a good example when the C5 came out as well as the new C6. First year offer the car, next year or two depending on sales, offer the upgraded HP model, etc. The GTO will have cool GM restyling in the next few years with better performance, but putting all their eggs in the first years package will not leave much for future models.

We have the two largest Pontiac Dealers in the Southeast here in Atlanta, and both in the top 10 in the country, that are only getting 10 GTO's the first year and a few more the next year. They have more deposits, than they have cars coming in, over the next 4 years.

GM is holding their cards on this car . . . Just watch . . . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Chevy454]

The main problem I see from the current GTOs is the weight. From what I understand, they have some skid plates or something of some type on the underneath of the car because the Holden cars have to cope with the rough gravel roads of Australia. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but the car seems strangely portly.

But with that said, motor trend did run a mid 13 at just shy of 105mph, which means the LS-1 is definitely up to snuff.

[PxTx]

I heard automotive press man McElroy elude to the fact that the short supply of the GTO was due to the automotive union worker reps fighting over the numbers of cars GM was having built over seas.

As for waiting for GM to release more HP in years to come...They may do it buy I do not beleive it will be cheap. There is good competition making cars that do 0-60 in 4.6 for around $30,000. Not too long ago they used to make a Camaro but since the Mustang cost less and was able to offer competetive performance it outsold the Camaro. Now where did that leave GM?

Don't get me wrong, I love our GM cars. I just find it harder to defend my loyalty to their product with todays competitive market. Next month Nissan is releasing their full size truck with more standard HP and displacement (I am assuming torque being up too with a 4 cam V8) than their American counterpart. Luckily for the market they have stayed away from the 3/4 tons and bigger tucks.

Off the showroom floor the STI does 12.9 with less than pro drivers.

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]

GM is holding their cards on this car . . . Just watch . . . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess we'll all just have to hold out for the "cool one" then huh?

[PxTx]

Just saw the new Hot Rod mag and they compared the STI to a Supercharged Mustang Cobra! The domestic car makers better start paying attention.

The Jap car out accelerated, out handled, faster 1/4 mile, faster road coarse and cost a couple of grand less.

To para-phrase the magazine, if the 390 hp blown Mustand were to find itself next to an STI at a red light it would loose.

I guess I am kinda beating a dead horse, but I want the old days of the pony cars to return. For now, I will just dream of what kind of response GM is capable of.

[olredalert]

------I live 40 miles from Detroit.I feel Im relatively well read in the automotive arena,although I may pass up a Jap car article or two(or twenty),but I have to ask.What is an ST1?.....Never heard of it........Bill S

[PxTx]

STI is made by Subaru. It is based on their compact Impreza car. The Impreza has a performance option WRX which gives the base 2.0 liter engine turbo treatment and suspention as well. Thge STI is the WRX Impreza car with the larger Legacy (Subaru's bigger car) 2.5 liter engine with the turbo treatment etc. the STI engine is more than just a stock 2.5 with a turbo but ou get the idea.

Subaru has an even larger engine, a H6 3.0 liter which may find its way into a later STI so they are far from their performance limit. The STI is also a 4 door car which 4 adults can comfortably get in and out of as well as ride for several hours, unlike the Mustang.

The way I see it, the Impreza is like a first gen Camaro. You have the base model (6 cyl or mild small block), the WRX (like an SS396 Camaro), and you have the STI (like a 427 Camaro). I've seen the STI sell around 30. Hot rod lists it for 29, the guy in my neighborhood bought his for almost 32. It is still safe to say that it could be had for around 30. What else can offer this level of performance? It ain't gonna be a GTO, anyone hear of a savior in the works for GM?

[olredalert]

pxtx,

------Fast is good,but at some time or other you have to look at it. I dont believe I have ever looked at any Subaru and not had to avert my eyes after a couple of seconds so as to not suffer some sort of style annuerism to the brain! Think of it this way; You only go fast every so often,but you look at the car all the time,even if its over the hood...........Bill S

[PxTx]

Bill, I respectfully disagree. We started this thread talking about the disappointing style (and performance from my opinion) of the GTO. I can hardly even consider it a GTO without a hood scoop let alone several other missing peices of function. The GTO by the aformentioned standard dneither looks good or performs well enough. WIll it be a disappointment? We'll see.

The Subaru in my opinon is an attracttive looking car. Yes, I could do without the rear spoiler, but the rest looks pretty good. I even like the hood scoop, heck its got one and the GTO doesn't...go figure! Maybe I am a little caught up in its performance capablility, but half my atraction to a car is what it allows me to do while driving.

To draw a comparison to another peice of GM iron I like, the 55 from Two Lane Blacktop isn't the best looking car by any standard, but it is still attractive looking to me because I know what it is capable of.

I've attached the cover of Hot Rod I borowwed from my pop's house. Is it really that bad?

Best regards,

Paul Tholey



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pxtx/parts/hotrod.jpg

[Chevy454]

How about the best ET/MPH they got out of each car?

[Seattle Sam]

Rustang:
390 hp
390 lb ft
with 8 lbs of boost
3530 lbs
9.05 lb / hp

quarter mile: 13.30 @ 109.0 (et seems slow for that mph...)

Sub-Aru:
300 hp
300 lb ft
with 14.5 lbs of boost
3125 lbs
10.4 lb / hp

quarter mile: 13.29 @ 100.5 (more like a good et for the mph IMO)

Seems to me you should get a 12.xx out of 109 miles an hour, what do some of you racers think?
Plus I hear it's real simple (and cheap) to change pulleys in the Rustang and get a bunch more boost and power..

-Sam /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
the 55 from Two Lane Blacktop isn't the best looking car by any standard, but it is still attractive looking to me because I know what it is capable of.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Now you're stepping on my dirt. That is the baddest '55 there is. Not only is is good looking and BETTER looking than ANY Subaru.. That particular 55 Chevy they used in the movie Two Lane Blacktop for the drive by shots will take ANY Subaru and throw it so far off into the woods you'd think Crocodile Dundee would run along and jump in and say take me to the wedding.. Best pick a different example of an "ugly" car.. Such as the 04 GTO.. Because there ain't an "ugly" 55 Chevy out there!. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif And if you'd like to know what the 55 from Blacktop could REALLY do, just ask me and I'll be happy to tell you.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chevy454]

I'm usually not one to take sides with the Ford guys, but...

It looks like the testers couldn't drive for crap. That thing should be in the 12s, and even that MPH is too low. Running those times with the Subaru was a no brainer since it's AWD, but a 390hp car with RWD is gonna have a "tendency" to spin the wheels! Looks like they left most of there ET/MPH at the starting line...

[PxTx]

Sorry if you didn't like the analogy I drew to the 55. You obviously like them very much. I am not trying to say the Subaru is faster. With all the aftermarket mods the 55 had, just about any car would be.

Yes, the Mustang was most likely traction limited. I have a roots blown toyota truck I drive everyday (about 30k a year). The low end torque does make it hard to get out of the hole without a huge smoke show. With slicks the Mustang would do better, but it would not be stock. I find the Subaru to be better engineered for the elegance of all components working together and doing several things well...accelerate, brake, turn, seat 4 people, etc.

Back to the spirit of the thread, the GTO is unable to do any of these things better than a less expensive Japanese cars (which seem to get better every year). An update package is nessisary if the market is expected to suport this car for more than a few years. What ever happened to the ho-hum Thunderbird?

[ssbrewskyaz]

I think we may be missing the point or points a little. Last GTO (last car called a GTO, I stand corrected) was a 1974 model. Looked like a Nova / Ventura kinda thing. Wasn't stellar in the performance department either. Given the opportunity to release or not release on the anniversary of the GTO departure, we opted to release. Things are gonna get better. While I agree that some nostalgic remnants of the past could have been nicely incorporated into the new Goat, the bottom line is, as a manufacturer, how much can you afford to put into a car that production numbers are less than say 40 - 50K per year. For example, the hiatus of the F body (Camaro / Firebird) isnít because we didnít want to build them any more, its economics. As a manufacturer you simply canít sustain the investment in a plant that builds 30K units a year. Trust me when I say this, there was a time not too long ago that the Corvette was begging for its life for the same reason.

Having said all that, and please, take it for what its worth, the point I wanted to make and have taken the usual long way around, is that weíre getting a rear wheel drive platform to work off of. In my opinion, this single feat merits a celebratory riot in down town Detroit similar to the ones they have when the Red Wings win the Stanley cup. If I had a dollar for every time Iíve sat in a meeting and asked ìwhen did we decide we werenít going to or couldnít build rear wheel drive cars anymoreî Iíd have enough money to Give Charley a run. The reality is, we now have a platform to at least work with. We have more than enough technology to make it go fast, but as the old saying goes; The only restriction to how fast you can go is regulated by how deep your pockets are. You want a GTO that is a fast or faster and handles as good as or better than a Corvette? Are you willing to pay the same price? In my opinion, the General doesnít think so either.

If you talk to the truck guys, they want a short box big block pickup. Itís not like we donít have the parts to build such a monster, however consider this. For every big block we build we need to build approximately two and a half four cylinder or equivalent vehicles to meet our CAF… requirements and stay in good graces with the Feds. And how many big block short box pickups are you gonna sell. Hey, Iím on your side but the answer is, you guessed it, not enough to keep a plant running. In the 80ís horsepower was what, 160 in a small block and 185 in a big block. Today weíve got 400+ in a small block car, 345 in a small block truck, 340 in a big block and 310 in a diesel> this isnít all bad.

Just a couple of other notes then Iíll shut up and get back to work;

GM owns a big piece of Subaru so it doesnít bother me if they do well. However, Iíd rather you bought a Chevrolet, Pontiac or similar traditional brand.

Corvette, Cadillac XLR (RWD on Corvette chassis) GTO, SSR (Hot Rod Pickup) It ainít over till the fat lady sings, and so far as I know, she isnít even warming up yet. Ö /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[bbdon]

I was over at the Pontiac web site today, it sounds like they are counting on the exhaust sound to sell the car. That might just work, it sounds very good.

[PxTx]

Thanks Scott for freshening up the post. I am very familiar with the FTP/CAFE obstacle for producing lots of big blocks. I am simply concerned that the new GTO lacks the performance to allow it to stay, just as the one produced in 1974. Althought the plant producing them was still there in 75, the GTO was not.

Yes, GM owns enough of Fuji (Subaru's parent company) to pirate the Subaru technology and put it in other GM cars, i.e the Saab 9-5X. Why will they not use it in the Chevy line?

I'm not sure RWD is something to celebrate over!

The new pony cars are the mid sized AWD cars that pack a punch. Nissan is releasing the G35 with AWD. Will it be the beginning of Skyline heritage reaching our shores? Maybe.

Just as carburators have evolved into EFI (soon DFI) as the only civilized low emissions engine contols...drive lines have evolved to AWD as the best in handeling and contol.

Rather than sing the praised of AWD and how I feel it is a good idea to offer it, I would like to know what some of the positives of RWD or FWD people like?

The Malibu is supposed to have an AWD option. Could this be a hidden savior? Bring back the Malibu SS in a different config than the GTO. I bet the plant building this car in both FWD and AWD config could sustain the investment.

As for a car that is as fast as the Corvette, these aformentioned cars are certainly close for nearly half the price!

Again, I am a Chevy lover. I want to buy a 4 seater (prefer a 4 door) car that can run with these Imports AND is GM made. When will the General deliver the goods while being price competitive?

Paul T