L72 `69 Camaro NHRA stockers

[VintageMusclecar]

Anyone here run one, or know anyone who does?

I'm looking for current dragstrip #'s on these cars, specifically 60', 330' and 660' times if anyone might be willing to share this info.

TIA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Eric

[Chevy454]

Larry's around here somewhere, and he runs an L-78 stocker. I've got another guy I converse with frequently from down south that runs an L-72. I'll rattle his cage...

[VintageMusclecar]

Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stk758]

I own and drive an A car, Let me dig up my last passes and I will share them with you. I have spent 1 year developing more power so I have to find last Dec time slips. This is my first pass on this site, very nice Rob! Barry

[larry_csa]

The set up your are asking about is a E or F car, depending on weight. I have a 396/375 steel and alum head motors. There are not many 396/350 cars out there. NHRA just took some HP of this combo to get more of them out there. I would think that they should run about 1.50 in 60. If you want to discuss A B & C cars we can talk.
thanks Larry 2206 C/SA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Larry a L-72 is a 427-425 they run B or C stock The 396 -350 can only run F/S in a Chevelle I think. We run a B/S Nova 396-375. Short times are best of 1.32 to 1.46 Fastest time in 1/4 10.32 Kim

[Chevy454]

Kim:

You talkin' Chevelles or Camaros? DeArmond was the first "stock" car in the 9s in his L72 Camaro in A/SA trim, and Sorensen recently went 9.97 at Woodburn as well.

I may be reading too much into it, but it sounds to me like Eric hollered at Larry offline asking about a different combo, and that's where the E-F/S talk came in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Rob they probably talked off line I was commenting on L-72 Camaros as far as class they ran in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Chevy454]

Gotcha. What kind of MPH does that B/S Nova run?

[Kim_Howie]

Rob, I think times 127 128? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Thanks for the replies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I was under the impression the 427/425 Camaros ran A or B Stock. Am I correct that they run un-factored at 425 hp?

Re: minimum weights...

Stick car is natural A/Stock at 8.00 lbs per HP. Add 170/driver = 3290 min.
Auto car is natural B/Stock at 8.5 per HP. Plus 170 = 3485

Is this correct? As I'm predominantly a "street car" guy, the whole NHRA factoring thing is a little fuzzy to me, hence the "newbie" questions.

I would like to discuss this further off the board if anyone is willing to share some info. I obviously don't expect anything proprietary, I'd just like to cover some basics to make sure I understand them correctly. If anyone is willing to help, please PM me or shoot me an email (in my profile). Just trying to spare a little board space and bandwidth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif


You guys rock. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Eric

[Chevy454]

Might as well cover this here, in case anyone else is interested. The rest of you class racers jump in and correct me if I lead him astray...

First off, take a look at the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide (http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/classification/index.html). This will provide you with the current HP factor, from which you can figure your minimum weight and your class. I'll use the L-72/400th as our example.

From the link above I select "Chevrolet, 1969", which will open the page for all 1969 Chevrolet combos. Then, I scroll down to "Camaro", to "Coupe w/TH", which is the L-72/auto combo. It tells me it has an "8.06 lb per HP" factor, and is factored at 425hp. Now, with that, I look in my NHRA rule book (thanks Barry!) and it tells me that it falls in "A-stock", which is 8.00-8.49. Now I can figure my minimum weight. Since it's a natural A/S car, I can use the class minimum weight factor of 8.00. Multiply 8.0 by the Hp factor (425), add 170 for driver, and you get a minimum weight of 3570. NHRA also allows you to drop down 1 class by adding weight, which means since it's a natural "A" car it can drop to "B" by adding 212.5 pounds.

See, clear as mud! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kim_Howie]

You did GOOD GOBER /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[larry_csa]

First I'am sorry for the mistake of misreading L-72. I should not answer the computer at 11.30 at night.
NOW. A 427/425 will make A only in a 1969 camaro. It can not get heavy enough to go to B.
Fast A cars Bobby D.
Bobby Brannon
Thomas Arnett
Joe Sorenson
A 1969 CAMARO will make B with a Stick but will NOT make C with a stick. It will not make weight.
Fast B Stick ED Bendez
Geroge Cottell
A 1969 CAMARO will make A OR B Stick with Alum Heads.
Fast A Stick Kevin Helms
A 1969 CAMARO will make B or C Auto With Steel heads.
It ONLY make B with Alum Heads.
A 1969 CAMARO will make E auto with a 396/350 Motor(parson & Myers)
I do not know anything about weight for Novas or Chevells. the Person asked about A CAMARO. I run Div 2 3 & 4
Thanks Larry 2206 C/SA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Chevy454]

Any of you guys ever run into Mike Keenan (sp?) or any of the other Team Checkmate cars? I've talked with them a few times on the phone about some parts and stuff...I *believe* Keenan runs B/S, but I can't remember if it's a Camaro or Nova.

BTW, BigDog needs some 074 heads!!!!

[larry_csa]

OK left out some things
396/375 A Stick alum Heads
396/375 B Stick steel heads
396/375 Will NOT make C stick
396/375 B auto W/Alum heads 3485
396/375 B auto Steel heads 3485
396/375 C Auto Steel heads ONLY 3680
427/425 A Auto Camaro 3570
A 427/425 in a Chevelle will make B at 3785 (OUCH)
Sorry for all the screw ups. My thought process is not working right lately /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
P.S. everything after Joe Sorenen's name is about 396/375
Rob Mike runs a 1969 camaro with a 427/425 or a 396/375 alum . paul runs a 1968 camaro with a 396/375 steel heads. Paul went a 9.98 at a 133 and change. at Montogmery
in November.

[Salvatore]

Paul Mercurie and Mike Keenan run camaros. They were the guys to beat in the 70's with there modified production camaros. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

Bob Broadbent set the national record at Maple Grove with there 1969 camaro in C/Stick. I think they run a 375 horse 396. Tom Baird went a 10.10 at the Grove this year with the Silver Car in A/Stick (Dutch Classics). Seems that most A/Stick cars are running 396's they seem faster than the 427. A/SA seem to be the 427 cars. I believe Helms is a 396 with aluminum heads, that is why he went to A/S (head change)if I am not mistaken. Gary Hettler likes the 396 motor better with the 4 speed, I was told.

[Kim_Howie]

Same cam same carb same heads lot of differance in weight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Broadbent record holder for years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Salvatore]

Bob used to be in E/S with a 302. Dave LeBrun built the big motor as with Ed Bednaz and gang. LeBrun runs C/SA with a 69 camaro 375 hp.

[Chevy454]

I asked Keenan about the stick/auto thing, and he said the 396 cars just can't pull the auto like the 427 cars can, but that the higher revving 396 cars LOVE the stick. That's what I find absolutely fascinating about the "stock" classes...so many different ways to go fast!

I would LOVE to try and field a car, but I'm no where NEAR smart enough to even get close to the index, much less be semi-competitive. Those guys have got it down to a fine art.

[larry_csa]

OK were back.With out checking with me, NHRA went and changed the rules. As of 2003 as long as the car has the correct motor and weights right the shipping weight does not matter anymore. ( 30 years worth of learning down the tube) In years gone by a Stick car was 15lbs too light to make C . In shipping weight a stick is 15lbs lighter than a auto. SC69SAM wins the door prize of the day. Broadbent use to be in E with a 302 him and that other guy McNishe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Guess with the new rule everybody wants a big block /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
I still find it hard to give up 31CID in an A car.
A with 396= 390X8= 3120 + 170 (driver) = 3290
A with 427= 425X8= 3400 + 170 (driver) = 3570
280 diff in weight. O Well
Wish I could afford a Hettler motor, But I do everything my self, motors and rearends. TCI does the trans. In the past it was racer aganist racer. Now it's money vers Money
Rob Sent you some Pic to day E-mail me when you get them
Thanks Larry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

I think you are wrong about being competitive. You can be competitive because you are a drag racer and can definetly run on the index with a little practice and time. Most of these cars run on their own dial-in and only have to run close to their record when they are in class eliminations. You basically dial your own ET. NHRA is not even running class eliminations at every event anymore. As good as you are on the dial-in is really what it takes. If you run 10.50's in A/S or A/SA you could have alot of fun and be competitive. I think a small block is around $8,500 to $9,500 and a big block is around $12,500 to $13,000. Probably at this time of the year you can find some of these cars for sale and get a pretty good deal. $20,000 would probably buy a competitive stocker. I would not build one I would probably buy one ready to go. Has to be cheaper and the bugs worked out already. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Sam is right we run in what we bracket mode until we run up against a car in our same class thens it's FULL bore mode. A lot of things change in that mode /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[RPZ28]

Kim, do you guy's use some type of thottle stop to go from full bore during eliminations, and reset again for dial in times.
Ron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Kim_Howie]

If I told you I would have to kill you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Just kidden We don't use any type of stop. We change tires ,fuel, drop some oil and other things /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JLerum]

Merry Christmas everyone!

I think that the L-78's need to really be spun hard to make them work. The way I understand it the 396/375 horse cars have a narrower torque band also. Their was an article in Super Stock Drag Ill on the Checkmate team before the mag disappeared and they talked about putting some really steep gears in their after market 4 speeds to really tune them for the RPM range they run.

It is amazing how much horsepower it takes to make up for weight, expecially if it is in the wrong place.

Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

DRIVE UM LIKE YOU HATE UM! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[RPZ28]

Kim, thanks for the info, I'll have to do more reserch on the subject. HAPPY NEWYEAR
Ron

[Chevy454]

While we're on the subject of stockers...how about a picture of Larry's Camaro yankin' the wheels:

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/63262-LARRYCSA.jpg

[JLerum]

How much horsepower are these cars making know? Even at 3500 lbs they have got to be pushing 630plus.

JIM

[Kim_Howie]

Check the dec 12th 2003 Nat Dragster page 95. The divison 5 champion in stock class is the car I help build in my garage. It took a lot of time and even more of these http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Jim your real close on the HP. Jeff Stealy East Moline Ill.

[Kim_Howie]

My ZL-1 dyno was a little higher than that. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Salvatore]

Hey Kim, MacNeish makes about 426 H.P. out of his 302. I guess a 425H.P. car probably makes about what 575...580? How close am I? sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Chevy454]

I'd say that 575-580hp is a tad "low" for a good S/SS L-72, as our lowly Pure Stock L-72 pulled in the low 500s with a weak 650cfm carb...

[JLerum]

Hey Kim, do ya have any pictures of that motor going together? Sorry, I don't get National Dragster just too many magazines all ready on a monthly budget. What type of torque?

The MOROSO calculator says you need 585hp at the wheels. I figure that translates into 655 at the flywheel to make 3500lbs go 129mph http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

JIM http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Kim_Howie]

We dyno 640 not to bad for STOCK LEGAL 396-375 motor http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Sam, Don sofranko SS/L nova former Nat Record Holder. I also help work on. Dynos 460 with a 283 And my Dad is meaner than your Dad. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif P. S. I have talked to Jerry at the track, ask him he knows me.

[Salvatore]

I knew that the big blocks made power, but I thought maybe a little shy of 600hp. The S/S 283 does have more modifications that the stocker 283. Porting heads, different intake etc. Remember you big block guys... H.P. per cubic inch, The little motors will out perform!!!!! Except in real hot weather. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif Love Sam

[Eddie M.]

All i can say is I'm amazed at the power you guys make. my hats off to you http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I'm gonna fly out and watch you guys run hopefuly this next race season http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

Don't have to come east. You guys have some great stock and super stock cars out west. How about Bobby DeArmand A/SA camaro and Ogburns SS/AA hemi cuda. sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Eddie M.]

Sam...... i haven't been paying attention to the drag racing heck i'm just now starting to get into drag racing at 46 yrs old but i sure do like those F.A.S.T. cars.

[Salvatore]

You will have to hang out at Bakersfield. Shame you didn't mess around back in the 70's and 80's when Fremont ran. Those sea level numbers they ran were great. Well, you already have a good start. Your ZL1 is in day 2 trim correct? Sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't have to come east. You guys have some great stock and super stock cars out west. How about Bobby DeArmand A/SA camaro and Ogburns SS/AA hemi cuda.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an understatement! I've still got to get my butt in gear and get my DeArmand "First in the 9's" t-shirt...

[Eddie M.]

Sam..... I was to busy running around being stupid in the 70's and 80's to realize i should have been racing then i got married so that took some time and money from racing.
I'm going to build my nova to race I'd make a pass with the zl1 but the way i shift i'm to afraid to blow it up.There is 2 new tracks that are suppose to be built north and south of me and bakersfield is only 45 mins away so I don't have no excuse for not going http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

Well Ed, There you go! sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif