67 (YENKO) baldwin motion identification question

[berger]

hi, my name is matt i'm a new member and i am attempting to restore my third 1st gen. camaro. I purchased it in kingston ,Ma. about ten years ago- the body still looks new,it looks like a plain jane 327 rs coupe, but its got frontend discs (original) a big swaybar, a crazy looking cross member, line lock near the steering pump on the cowl, 4spd,and posi removed from car- motor long gone but man I purchased it from said he bought it off local vette dealer who took a 427 out of it for a drag car, car came up from new york. Both of us at the time new nothing about camaros with 427's in them so I never knew to research about motion cars till now, I have the original registration which shows the car registered in amittyville ny, I don't know how close that is to Baldwin chevrolet, car has never been out of a trailer or garage its whole life- its way too good a shape for the northeast, also the heaterbox looks original and the hoses are way over on the passenger side, I have an original 327 camaro and its hoses are in the middle and it didn't come with anything this has underneath, also the car seems to have a traction bar bracket under the passenger floor but no bar , I just started reading about this in some books but I'm lost, this ain't an ss- it has no badging or ss hood, but all components are orignal (flat hood)and the car has bigblock or z28 vintage braking and suspension parts, before I restore it , I like to know what it is-what should I look for, My other two are a 327 67 coupe and a 69 ss 396 w/ protecto plate both I restored myself from the ground up so I familiar with both's components and where to look to verify but I can't figure this one out. any help? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Chevy454]

Welcome! I'm sure someone here can/will help you. But, please take a moment and fill out your profile.

[jg95z28]

It could also be an L30/M20 car. When combined with those RPO's several SS components were also used.

http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml

[berger]

just filled out bio, I got a 1 and 2 year old hanging on me right know so I might have to bale from the forum at any time, Its not an L30/M20 because of the heater box, mine has the hoses near the passenger fender so the bigblock would fitalso on z28s, I looked at the photos on camaro.org it shows the L30 heaterbox hoses in the middle of car like all 327s and 350s. I have areal 327 I already restored and heaterbox is in the middle ,this isn't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[resto4u]

Could you please post your cowl tag info? This will also help tell you what you have. Vin number could also help if it was a 67 yenko. Roger

[berger]

hi, and thanks for your help- can't give you the cowl tag, because its not original, and the vin tag on the door jamb is gone someone wanted them real bad to rip those rivets out. I cleand up the top of cowl where the vin is embosed starts w/ 7N then looks like 229711 could be 717 or 777 I'll have to keep cleaning it. thanks , by the way it has vintage traction bars bolted to both monoleafs still in car.

[berger]

car,s cowl is rivted but loose and the lower left corner is broken off, ( probably pryed), color code says deepwater blue w/ blue interior , car is original red -under the front fenders along cowl where it joins up to door hinges, started scratching white coat of paint off all body parts, they sprayed right over original paint w/ white coat has to be 15yrs old at least. I keep finding red underneath everything, keep on scratching I hit sheetmetal. Ever see copper tubing used from master cylinder to valve and linelock ?(old).

[jg95z28]

Without a trim tag, vin or documentation you're going to have a hard time trying to determine what it orginally was... plus you'll never be able to sell it as anything other than a non-titled roller. It sounds like a cool car for building a full-time racer out of though.

[berger]

its got a vin screwed in of coarse 12337 (6cylinder), the cowl tag still could be the real deal,when I mean loose I can just pull the top back enough to see white paint like on top of the cowl, the front is sprayed black like the engine compartment, looks to never have been repainted inside, the break in the cowl tag is the very left corner not between the rivets or affecting the codes in any way, looks like someone tried to pull it off but gave up? Ma. laws are real lax on cars prior to 1970, a number, 50$ , a wait in line at the DMV equals a new title, used to free till a few years ago. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[berger]

hey roger if my cowl is corret its 2B 3sk 5B- I know no 4 code but this car blows the doors off my 69 ss 396 w/orig motor and protecto plate I stole for 2500$, got a 402 set up for racing for free as part of deal, wife made him dump it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Mr. T]

What engine is currently in your 67 you are currently scratching on?

[berger]

a 12oz. bud can right now, no motor, dealer pulled a 427 out of her before I bought it , it came out of newyork,amittyville-like the movie-BOO! By blows the doors off I mean she's loaded up with dealer racing options, my69 ss was easy resto. 396, 4spd , 12 bolt just neede freshing up, this 67 is a monster, lokks like a sleeper z on the outside. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

whats the full VIN and Cowl tag info? Does the partial VIns under the cowl and near the heater blower motor match the VIN plate?

[berger]

rs/ss 427 orig disc brakes, swaybar, heaterbox, copper tube linelock,BB springs and shocks, lakewood traction bars on some monster rear axle, pulled cover ,gears are destroyed, no bolts on rear axle (what is it),4 spd, got original registration- guess I'm gonna have to try and backtrack and find this motor- they usually don't stray far from where they are ripped out. Garaged entire life,all steel,chrome and glass still there, only bondo was used to fill in rs reverse light holes- had to climb under the car to find the holes, looked like it came from the factory w/ deleted backup lights- best bondo job /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I ever saw (or almost didn't see, thank god for magnets.

[Mr. T]

How about a picture of your 67 in question. Do you have a digital camera so you can take so pics of the cowl tag, vin# plate, maybe some shots of the disk brake setup, heater box, engine compartment, some of the interior racing options? Any pics would help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[berger]

no match , I just left car so I'm goin' late nite memory right now vin on door 123377n242371, cowl and box 7n224711 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Mr. T]

By your description and the options it has, it sounds like your car is a factory built 67 Camaro SS/RS 396, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be a converted 427 Baldwin Motion or Yenko Camaro. To bad you could find out where it was originally sold.

[berger]

sure I'll take pics, but its 2am here and I'm headin' to bed soon, I'll try and snap a few off tomorrow, pics that is. its 229711 on cowl & box not224711 its late and a lot of ozs. later. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mr. T]

Flat hood or SS louvered hood?

[berger]

I think that's where Matt Murphy was on to something last nite he wanted me to call him right away toget info and look for other stuff that would distinguish it but I had to clean all the dust of it first so as not to waste anyone's time, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Mr. T]

2am, I hear ya! Probably taking pictures right now after having a few brews wouldnt be the best thing to do! Who knows what kind of pictures you would share with us! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

123377N shows it as a 6 cylinder car from the General. Cowl partial VIN and the cars VIN dont match. If youhave not bought the car yet, I would take the VIN to the local police and ask them to check it. Stolen/salvaged/peice meal car comes to mind.

Better safe than sorry

[berger]

flat, that's what's throwin me, do you know of any 67 z28's whose heater hoses are way over in bigblock territory, car was built063, 717-z nor14367(memory again) ee, but its red down under. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[berger]

stolen is coming to mind that's what I'm afraid of, but I bought it as a parts car for 500$ 10 years ago, the front end alone is worth about 5 times that. I know the codes don't match, but I don't think they got the one they wanted on the cowl those rivots held tight(good)! Just finishing up my second restoration-do all the work myself with my old man he's like the dad from orange county choppers, this 67 is all there and too rare to part out so its looking like the third resto project. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Mr. T]

Do you mean the car was built 06B instead of 063?

[berger]

E fifth week /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Mr. T]

Radiator still in the car? 4 core?
How about the engine mounts? Is the driver's side mount taller than the passenger side one?

Enough questions, we shall talk again tomorrow! Take it easy and I hope this turns out to be a Supercar, one never knows! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[JChlupsa]

RIVITS on the cowl??? the firewall for the cowl (trim) tag or the partial VIN?? A cowl tag would be easy to remove with a screwdriver

[berger]

Down boy, she's cleaner than coming out of norwood right now , just gotta find the motor, looks like someone spent some money at motion and tru on some race options like superbite rearend , he put them in perfect and those seals have never been brok or repalced (big block motor mounts by the way) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[berger]

its way past my bedtime , and the wife is a callin' the partial on the cowl is embossed, the trim tag is riveted on the firewall, sorry if I screwed it up I can't type as fast as I 'm thinking, the trim 's got no 4 code so it pretty much kills super status right- hell I just want to put her back the way she was, not sell her, I still got my first car I bought at 15 67 327 auto, complete retore, had it 15 yrs and brought her back from the dead in a new hampshire farm field in the middle of a snowstorm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[JChlupsa]

get some sleep the VIN alone tells you its not a big block SS car

[Mr. T]

Pictures would help, maybe you can get some to us tomorrow. More the better.

[berger]

yeah the12337 on the door janb is screwed in not riveted- its not the original tag, someone took it and left me with abright shiny 6 cylinder one not this car nite /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif, nite

[berger]

you got it and I can unscrew the vin off the door jam and throw it out cuz it was on there so the last guy could sell me the car not because someone felt like ripping it off just to 1/8 screw it back on without restoring the car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Mr. T]

After sharing the pics with us, you can send some to Joel Rosen (Mr. Motion) [email protected]

[LVCamaro]

LOL...I'm not sure Joel would enjoy discussing a car without a real VIN, with or without pics...LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Mr. T]

It was just a thought, plus I was referring to if and when he located the original Vin#.

[berger]

good morning campers, got the digital camera fired up, gotta wait for my old man to download these into an attachment, just got this thing for xmas , he knows what to do, good things come to those who wait. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[berger]

other than the embossed partial on the cowl, where else can I look, From the history I got off the last owner who bought it off a local vette dealer about17yrs. ago the dealer ripped the 427out and put it in a drag vette, sold the car as parts, probaly ripped the vin off cause it worth selling not cuz stolen, if they wanted tags for a good clone they were better off leaving them on car, its mint, I 've restored alot worse that I paid more to initially buy, we've passed on alot of questionable tagged cars in past, I strictly bought this one as parts it was all there and solid, its only when we got it home and saw how solid and vintage race options were, we decided not to part, so we tucked her away till now, we restored cars to stock Gm,we didn't know nothing about 427 67's and dealer installed monsters, so it sat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[berger]

thanks, mr.T I just spoke with Mr. Murphy and gave him some more particulars, we are in agreement, now I got enough to go straight to the source, I'm also in the process of sending pics to him, thanks, I'll let you now how it turns out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[55chevy]

Lets see some pics of this thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr. T]

Your welcome Matt, just waiting patiently for the pics. http://host.threadshosting.com/~yenko/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[berger]

just sent them tony,to your email, hopefully I don't suck as bad w/ a digital camera as I do with computers, I can always reshoot any you like http://host.threadshosting.com/~yenko/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Mr. T]

Just sent you an e-mail Matt, there were no pic attachments.

[berger]

32% and couting, hang in there, I gotta sign off after transfer and get some sleep for work tomorrow, check out the pic of the copper tubing running from the master cylinder thru proportion valve to linelock (small black cylinder), wiped hard to get last 10 yrs dust off so you could pick up the orange color, we never seen it before. Oh forgot to mention the X66 your about to see also looks like hell because we got one more primer and wetsand to do before final paint and reassembly, I got a busy winter and need a bigger garage. seeya http://host.threadshosting.com/~yenko/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[SamLBInj]

did this car happen to be Butternut yellow?
Sam

[berger]

Looks to be red w/ black interior, about to start taking off white topcoat to see where and what color the stripes are on this thing, they sprayed right over original paint, without sanding it off. Lucked out in digging for orig bill of sale as parts car when I bought it off guy in89' he left me bills of sale from neighbor he bought it off in 85, and his bill of sale from dealer who pulled the motor and tranny in81, looked on internet dealer still there same owner , I'm going to see if we can trace that motor down, also digged out 1980 NY registration showing owner and address, lists as 67 chev. camaro, 8Cyl, sport coupe, but vin is 12337etc. which means six, on back is stamp in 81 from Ny DMV stating registration is invalid when used in conjunction with number plate afixed hereupon, guy caught at this point had to sell it as parts car in Ma, last time driven was 80', gotta start making some calls. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[berger]

still trying to send those pics tony, we definitely know that its an orig ss/rs 396 4spd out of ny, just trying to see if its an orig 427 or if they blew the 396 between 67 and 70 and put in a 427, all the race options look vintage fo pre 1970, we had a slide we found in the glove box of a red ss/rs camaro at an old car show w/ racing rims, at the time we didn't think it was the car because it was white w/ blu paint codes, know that we're taking the fenders off and paint- She's red- I gotta keep digging for that slide now too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mr. T]

Sounds like you are getting more and more information all the time Matt! No problem on the pics, get them to me when you can. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[berger]

Hey Tony let me try sending them again. I sure would like to find out about the blue straight six camaro in new york that's got my tags, if someone like motion were to take out your whole L78 drivetrain for a race application 427 what would they do with it , sell it or give back to the owner who could then put it in -say a straight six- maybe switch tags when he got tired of them and sell the six as a numbers matching L78 and the 427 as is since the factory 427s he installed had no vins- probably wouldn't lose any value on resale, and a big profit on the six. Maybe?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Mr. T]

That would be great if you could find out about that other 67 Camaro, and see if your tags are on it. As for the L78's that were taken out of converted 427 Camaro's, etc, I don't think they were given to the owners of the car, unless they wanted them.
If the owner did take the L78 engine with him and put it in a 6 cyclinder Camaro, then he would have to take the vin plate and cowl tag off the 427 camaro in order to make it an orginal and numbers matching car, then that would leave the B/M 427 with no identification. I don't think it was to common for an owner to take the pulled L78, since this was the 60's and they weren't concerned about a numbers matching car back then, only power and racing mostly. JMO

[Mr. T]

When the owner sold the B/M 427 car, he would have to come up with a 8 cylinder cowltag and vin# plate, since the 6 cylinder tags wouldn't work on a 427 Camaro, etc.

[Jeff H]

What's the complete cowl tag show? Depending on the date and option codes it will help to identify what it was originally. Sounds like the VIN tag and title are not legit for the car. The hidden VIN will tell you what the car really is. Then you could try to get a title issued with that VIN.

[berger]

Hi Jeff, Matt Murphy helped me with cowl and vin they are both off the same straight six, the ss hood was switched for the six's flat other than that they left everything else, From that we were able to confirm she was a ss/rs/bb 4spd, who finally got caught w/ the wrong tags and was lastdriven in80', I'm contacting the dealer who popped her 427 and tranny( the way she set up w/ this monster rear I'm guessing its probably going to involve some sneider race options mated up to the motor, just trying to see if she's an orig 396 or 427. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

Partial VIN will only tell the make, Year, Build plant and the cars sequence number which will allow you do determine the model It will not say if it was a V8 or 6 cylinder car
Example: 19N555555 1= Chevy 9= 1969 N= Norwood and 555555= Camaro since the 69 model year started with 5xxxxx. You will have to have the complete VIN to determine if it was a V8 car along with the orginal Cowl Tag to determine if the car was a BB car ( if after Dec Build date for Norwood) If the Partial VIN is 19L555555 you will not be able to tell what the car was in regards to it being a big block car due to Los Angeles having no "X" codes on the Cowl Tag.

[JChlupsa]

67 would only be a 396 BB car if it turns out to be a BB SS Car. No Factory 427 67's How many coils do the hood springs have?

[Jeff H]

Boy, that makes it tough then. What's the partial VIN? You should be able to look at that and determine what time frame the car was actually built. Then you will know if it's a late enough car to be a big block or too early.

[berger]

Well if the number 7N227311 holds up then its a Yenko (go figure) she's on the 107 nhra list between two others that are also on the yenko list of 54, but we been wire brushing so long we guessed the last number off what we cleaned up all the others are clearly legible the last has a straight part to but could be 5 or 9 can't get top and bottom clean yet to see where and if she bends, could end up both lists if it changes from a 1, We're gonna have to pull the heater box to get a good look at the number- almost there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jeff H]

Great find if it turns out to be real Yenko. Just like the 69 that popped up on Ebay recently. It's great to find some of these lost cars.

[berger]

Thanks how much did the 69 go for, any idea what a 67 red RS yenko 427, 4 spd with line lock and ladder bars would go for, found the dealer who pulled the motor and tranny in 81 he's out till Monday but said he either has it in one of his old drag vetts or knows with paperwork who he sold it too, keepin' my fingers crossed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[55chevy]

Still waiting to see pics... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
its 229711 on cowl & box not224711 its late and a lot of ozs. later

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well if the number 7N227311 holds up then its a Yenko (go figure) she's on the 107 nhra list between two others that are also on the yenko list of 54, but we been wire brushing so long we guessed the last number off what we cleaned up all the others are clearly legible the last has a straight part to but could be 5 or 9 can't get top and bottom clean yet to see where and if she bends, could end up both lists if it changes from a 1, We're gonna have to pull the heater box to get a good look at the number- almost there


[/ QUOTE ] Were you able to get the heater box off and come up with the final VIN ?

[berger]

Sent pics to MrT It's 227311(Same # under heaterbox cover)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO]

What a find! congrats http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

227305 is Yenko # YS719 sold at Jay Kline Chevrolet..227311 is pretty close.

[berger]

Thanks copo, what do you think do I dare restore it myself or should I send it down the street to Hyannis Restoration. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Belair62]

Wow that is awsum...Mr.T....don't hold out on us...post those VIN pics...

[berger]

Ed C says shes from central chevrolet on his list, thanks to all who helped in id'n her. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Mr. T]

Guys, I have tried to post Matt's (berger's) pics of his 67 Camaro, but the files are too big. Tried to reduce the size of the pictures, but didn't work. Matt might try and post them.

[berger]

Too big gotta go through a server or homepage, sent them to 454 maybe he swing it tomorrow, got alot more. Sent Vin , front end w/ 4 pistons on rotors w/extended studs for race rims, copper tubed linelock off master cyl. and proportion valve, gotta reshoot ladder bars on monoleafs (too dark) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[budnate]

Berger,
Can I ask a question please, I thinks it is great that the numbers point towards it being a Real car,

but I dont understand where there is no concern that it has the wrong Vin tag and Cowl tag on the car??? Unless I misunderstood how the posts went??? someone changed those for a reason and I doubt it was because they had paperwork on two cars and felt the need, Next question so if it is a stolen car from many moons ago, who is the real owner of the car?? the Bank, Ins Co., Former owner that lost it or you.

How does one go about clearing up the tags without loseing the car to local law enforcement???.

Bud.

[Pantera]

First off you had better check the NCIC records for stolen for a start. I would also check each nearby states stolen list and if it is then that car doesn't belong to you... Period.... !!!! Sorry but it is just that simple. You may try to find out who the person that it was stolen from and if they received money from a Insurance Co. and if that is the case you might have a chance of purchacing it from the Insurance Co. They are not hard to work with! Remember $$$$ Talks... Other wise you could loose it two years from now when it is at a car show and the feds walkin and take it as a stolen car or altered Vin. You loose everything you did to it --- PERIOD...!!! If I were you I would recomend that you do your research first before you ever start to spend much $$$ on it.

Years ago, I had a '61 315 hp big gas tank SCCA vette that i sold ('66) and the guy later stripped it of the injector and such and put it in a strip pit somewhere. The worse part is he won't tell me where. It now belongs to some Insurance Co. but he still won't tell me where it went. Boy do I wish I had never got rid of that one. I got a bad case of 396 fever and traded it to him for a 66 SS396 supersport chevelle. Stupidest thing I think I ever did back then. But if I could find it I would have to be very careful as the Insurance co. could come in and claim it after it was all fixed up again and not have to repay me for all my work.

The point that I am trying to make is be very carefull if the Vin tag is off some other car as that is a Federal crime for you to do anything with it..!!!! even if it is the wrong one. In fact it could cause you some trouble just for having it in your possession with the wrong vin plate or one that is altered and not notify the proper authorities.

If they find out, you can loose that car very easy to the feds or some insurance co. Also the original owner that it was stolen from if no insurance co paid off on it may still be the righfull owner and you could loose it two or three years from now and you will loose everything ($$$) you put in it.

Trust me that happened to me on a '69 Z-28 and a '65 Vette in the past. They will walk in and take it from you.... PERIOD...!!!! If you protest you will go too..!!!!

You also have a real problem with it since the original Vin is missing you will not be allowed to reproduce it back to original - legally. Then it will have a state assigned # plate which has no resemblense to the original # and that will kill some of the higher value that the car has.

I just wanted to share some of the things I have ran into over the years with collector vettes that I have bought innocentely when I had a car lot. In fact you could go to jail for hiding it and not reporting it.

So Please be carefull .... I am not so sure that you should post too much on it in a public forum till you find out if you are the rightfull owner... ?? You may be innocent of anything to do with the cars past but you just never know. No mater what? I want to wish you "Good Luck" with it and trust me I am jealious....

Wish it was mine.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Camaro's are my second love next to a Vette. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Feel free to call me if you want to chat more about this.

[budnate]

Mr Berger, mighty quiet, are ya locked up on the Rock??? do we need to send James Bond to bust ya out????.

Bud.

[berger]

All vins on car came back clean in national registry database, Car is clean, they must of beat the bag out of it for 13 yrs and blew her up, then parted her out, I bought her as parts for my 327 coupe resto, whew!!!!!!!! Just got confimation 5 mins ago, so sorry , do you like apples? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[berger]

WELL HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[budnate]

Great I will call Bond and tell him you are just fine, glad to here it came back clean, still dont understand why someone went to the trouble to trade tags around??? I dont know who your source was but I would make darn sure its clean before selling or restoring it.

Bud.

[berger]

Would like to thank all in ID'n this ghost, got alot of accurate and quick info from alot of different sources, thanks to Matt Murphy, Joe C, Marlin , Copo, Chvy454, Mr.t (way to hang in for those pics), Charlie L, Hawaii , and any I may have missed, VINS clean thru registry check(family friend) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif Looks like she was unclaimed and sold at police auction in 80, probably insured, bounced around collecting dust since we dug her up out of the grave, Hope I can lean on you guys for more great advice in restoring her, we'll keep you posted and continue to send pics, will probably have to go to Yenko forum I guess, YS 722, SWEET. Thanks again

[55chevy]

Mr T.. Send me those pics and I'll get them up here. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Mr. T]

Ed,

I sent you an e-mail containing pictures of Matt's (bergers) 67 Camaro.

[Pantera]

Just as long as you are sure that the clean bill of health came throught a real policeman that used the NCIC crime database you should be safe. You do understand that you still have a big problem don't you? You do not have the original vin number plate. There is a federal law that you are in big trouble if you remove the vin off a car and put it on another. I sure hope you ran both Vin's. You didn't hear this from me but if there are someone out there that is making a real good copy of the factory vin # then you just might want to explore trying to get the proper one or one that looks good enough to fool someone in law enforcment into thinking it is the original Vin plate. Just remember that the NCIC may not have been working back when this car may have been first stolen and I would do a manual search of any states old records that may predate the NCIC or you may regrette it. There has got to be a "REASON" why the vin # is missing and has one from another car on it.

What ever state that the records you were refering about is a good place to start. You don't want someone that used to own the car to come up and claim it out from under you. If it was ever stolen befor the NCIC came into use and it didnot get updated to those files that person still has legal right to that car and all your hard work. Be totally sure of any of your sources that you are relying on and be sure to get it in writing and keep it in a file on the car and never throw it away no mater how many years later it is.

[berger]

family is full of civil and federal law enforcement they ran all numbers, Nicb check will make you lose your job when misused they say, they contacted states where it originayed and migrated through, everything came back fine, looks like the old dealer here who bought it at police auction sold motor in 81, can't find records or so he says, so we think we're just gonna make her a drag which was our first intention, thanks for all the help , http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[55chevy]

And we have pics.. Berger will have to fill in the info on these as I just sized them and posted them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[55chevy]

2
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[55chevy]

4 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif

[55chevy]

3 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[55chevy]

5 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[55chevy]

6 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[55chevy]

and I was told this is another car he did up. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[55chevy]

2 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[55chevy]

whoops.. 2 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[berger]

1. The ghost note 4 piston calipers and BB heaterbox. 2. The extended studs on the front rotors, 3, The copper tubed linlock, 5, The steering box quick ratio, non power, 6. A lousy shot of the ladder bars on monoleaf, disregard rear axle its for rolling her around, The vin is also in there( what do you want its a walmart digital camera, also two shots of my first 67' 327 I restored 15 yrs ago, I just painted again last summer, Enjoy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[berger]

Struck ou on motor and past owners, both long gone or dead, dealer remembered pulling an aluminum block so it can't be orig. should have been cast iron I guess, oh well vins came back clean and registry said we can get a reconstructed title and vin plate for 50$ so we can race her next season at the drags in Epping probably heavy class, any one know of a 66 cast iron block 427 4sale we think we'll build her as a nostalgia drag since it looks like she used to be one , Thanks for everyone's help. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mr70]

Thank you for sharing all his with us.
Pix look OK here. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[JChlupsa]

I just have to ask whats up with the change of Name and all with your profile???

it now reads:

for berger

Email
Member # 1484
Name matt berger
Title journeyman
Total Posts 62
Homepage
Occupation
Hobbies auto restoration
Location
Bio 2 67' camaro's, 1 69' X66 camaro
ICQ Number
Registered on 12/25/03 04:35 PM

[berger]

Basically, hawaii its not for sale, alot of info starting turning into offers and doc. fees up to 10,000$, we're far from that stage, I'll keep everyone informed of our progress. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I would bet you can get more than 10K for it. I still think it should be put back as a Yenko. It will not be worth what a Survivor car is worth but I would think it would have just as much if not more validity than a Rebodied car.

[berger]

We want to restore her back to a yenko, and are still trying to get the dealer here to dig up that engine he pulled in80', We want to do the restore, theregistry walked us through the title process , it went alot easier then I thought but I had to pay back sales tax on 11 years, it seemed worth it at this juncture, I would like to just keep all correspondence and services offered directed through this site and not called or approached directly at my residence, it freaks my wife out, I don't need to hear it from her anymore ya know, Again I appreciate everyon's help and I will continue to post pics and update on new info found, just chill a little bit with calling the house. I wasn't offered 10,000 for car that was just someone offering their documentation fee- I think its the same info all you guys in the know alredy gave me collectively. Thanks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Charley Lillard]

So are you saying someone wanted 10K to verify the car ? Was it someone that posts here ?

[LVCamaro]

Belair's credit card bills from his vacation during Vettefest are coming due....Hmmm. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[55chevy]

Is there any way to move this thread into the "Yenko" section and rename it now?

[JChlupsa]

Can you please repeat the question??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[55chevy]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[resto4u]

People calling you at home? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif I would be upset also. voltures, they are circling. Did not know it was for sale. Lets not have another slugfest over a car, show the guy some privacy and respect. Roger

[Belair62]

How did they call you at home ? Did you post your phone number somewhere ?

[berger]

Got docs. from mechanic, she was assembled at yenko, but not set up w/ race components there, those are what made me first reseach her so i still have to find out who put those elements in and when before restoring her. Mechanic said she went through span to central chevy(believed tobe W. springfield,Ma.) They are still in business, they don't have paperwork but manager is contacting owner and old mechanics to see what they might remember of her and original owner, its worth a shot anyway. I'll keep you updated http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[COPO]

Great info you have found thus far, keep us informed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[CTChevelle]

Berger,
Some time ago somebody posted an ad from an old MA newspaper on this site. It was a classified ad for a Yenko Camaro out of the Springfield area (413) area code. I believe the ad was from the 70's. I do not remember who posted it or when, but it is worth a shot to call the phone # and see if this is the same car.

Steve

[JoeC]

Matt,
What does your paper work have listed for Yenko installed parts? The nice thing about the 67 Yenko Camaros is that most of them came with headers, scatter shield, traction bars, and SW tach/gauges. So they were pretty hot cars when restored to condition delivered by Yenko. The rear end in your pictures was mostly put in after years of racing. In another post you asked about heads. I believe Yenko used the 375hp heads from factory if it was an original L78.

[berger]

Thanks steve do you know where i might locate the ad or old post of it. Joe I don't have possession of the paperwork yet but he did say it was assembled at canosburg , was red, same vin, and that the traction bars I described on my monoleafs are probably the same early type lakewood bars they started using in july of 67' there. He also thought their would be a tag for the ys # but was not sure if it was just on corvairs that year, but he has the assigned ys# on the workorders, if they affixed it to the rear door jam above the door latch it appears their are two holes filled and painted there, does yours have this joe. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[JoeC]

I don't know of any 67 Yenko's that got the YS# tag. The Stingers and 68 Yenko Camaros did have a tag. 67 and 69 no tags.

[berger]

yeah I couldn't find any indications of tag holes, the other spot on rear jam appeared to be a factory spot weld. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[John]

...What would your YS# tag be? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[berger]

it would be a small number plate but they were not on 67 camaros just stingers and 68 camaro's, I believe the yenko super camaro number assigned to it on the work orders is 722, but the mechanic was going off memory and did not have paperwork in front of him when we last spoke. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[berger]

spoke w/ vince emmi over the phone, 10000$ for documentation, forget that, but he did describe a car he owned in early 70s he bought off a drag racer sounded exactly like mine right down to the 57 olds rear and flat hood, red car orig painted over white.Hmmmmm.....

[Charley Lillard]

If Vince owned it in the 70's he would have known it was a Yenko and would have sold it as a Yenko. I don't understand how it's Heritage could have gotten lost. I would think it would have been kept as a Yenko.

[berger]

Charlie I gotta find that ad of a 67 yenko for sale in the springfield area in the late 70s, someone already spoke of, I think it may be the same car, I don't think the car was running when vince had it or after if its the same one, my motor got pulled in 80', dealer may have bought it as a yenko for the motor.

[berger]

he was describing a lot of cars he use to have, described another that he looked at that waas ayenko but guy made it a world of wheels car with blower, pleated velour interior turbo 400, pink stripes on candy apple red paint, weird thing is I have slides of that car at a world of wheels show just as he described, they were in my glove box when I bought my car, I think he sold his white one to the guy for parts, he said last he knew the show car was sold to a guy in a small town in ny who beat the hell out of it and blew the motor, my white one was last registered in a small town south of albany, I think two yenkos both 67 rs's traveled from owner to owner in the 70s and early 80s together, one a pimped out showcar(red) and mine a white parts car, the good part is vince said the white one was the only yenko he owned where he was able to track down the original motor from another racer, he put it back in car before he sold it, too many coincidences. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
spoke w/ vince emmi over the phone, 10000$ for documentation

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice to see Vince has finally gotten reasonable...!

[berger]

I'll post pics of the show car maybe someone will recognize it, its got the guys name in the pin strip and on the world of wheels sign in the windshield, I think it says JoeC but not the guy on this site I already asked him, showcar was ugly.... you wouldn't know it was ever a yenko unless you ran the numbers like mine, even had 454 emblems on it.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

Why don't you just have Ed Cunneen out to look at her ? Then you can put all the coincidences to bed....

[CTChevelle]

Matt
Here is a link to the previous thread with the Yenko's for sale in MA. Yenko's for sale. (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=6870&page=&view=&sb=5&o=& fpart=1&vc=1)
One is for two '67s advertised at Rudy's. Good luck!

Steve

[berger]

thanks for digging them up, since I live in Ma. I'm gonna go through the Springfield census records for both addresses , get the full names, and run a search through the internetfor surrounding areas, If any matches pop up , i'll call them and see, both sound interesting, the search is worth a try if I can get an orig. owner w/ pics or a protectoplate or something. Thanks again

[JoeC]

I have done a lot of research on the 67 Yenko Camaro and can give my opinions. My original pictures and talk with original owner shows no Yenko crest and no Yenko tags. At the time I found my car all the restored Yenko Camaros had a Yenko crest on the fender and Warren did say he thought they put YS# tags on the 67 Camaros but I can find no original 1967 pictures of the Yenko crest and no 67 Yenko Camaros with YS# tags. Yenko seemed to be proud of his Yenko crest, as most would be, and put it on some of his racecars and streetcars. In original Yenko pictures there are 1968 Camaros and Corvettes with the crest but found none on 67s. Also there has been info from other original owners of 67 Yenko Camaros who said no crest. I also found some evidence that Yenko was working on a 1967 COPO Camaro and some of the 67 trim tags have a dash that I can find no explanation for. I talked with Jerry M , Larry C and some CRG guys but can’t pin down anything on the dash yet. Still working on that but I believe at least some of the 67 Yenko Camaros were special ordered cars. We know the Stingers were, so this would not be unusual for Yenko to get some type of special order. If anyone is researching the 67 or 68 Yenko Camaros I would like to hear from them.

[berger]

hey joe,I wonder if yenko had first dibbs on the big blocks when they rolled off in early june 67',my car was built fifth week of may or first week of june, I guess it had to be one of the first, Warren said about that time the cars came w/ the 427s from chevy either directly to yenko or right to harrell if they were full, he seemed to imply they came w/ the 427 short block in it but then would need building up, he said they definetly didn't take receipt of the cars w/ a bunch of crate motors soon to follow or already waiting for them at the shop, Maybe the 54 list includes all ss350 conversions at yenko, and the 107 list includes the big blocks that started to follow mid year w/ 427 short blocks in them, Kevin's seems to be a mid year big block that went directly to harrell for assembly w/ receipts. The straight six vins might be factual cuz Harrell could probably take on converting these if copo dropped 427 short blocks in them to start, maybe chevy started w a few of them to get the idea how to set up the big block car for a motor that size ( such as installing a new heater box for clearance and beefier motor mounts, what does a straight six motor mount look like?( In all maybe yenko did the 54, and harrell did the other 53) Do you know anything about a vertical date stamp under the heater box near the inner fender support mine says h 17 r the 1 and r are underlined w/a dash, I have a h19 in between my drivers side door hinges , guys tell me it means august 17 and 19 but how could it if it was built in early june, does this imply a 66' diecast stamp when the body came from fisher, one guy says the r stands for right side and that their would be an L on the other side, but their clearly is not just H 19, so what could the R in H17 R stand for. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[berger]

well i found a rudys auto service in Seaford ,ny 3586 Merrick rd. Bill Arnold is manager, I'll ask if they originated in Springfield back in the sixties. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Denis]

"H 19" is a sheet metal date stamp. The "H" is the year, starting with "A"=1960, so "H"=1967. The 19 is the week# in the year.

For example, "H 19" is the 19th week of 1967, which starts on Sunday, May 14 -- which makes sense given your car's assembly date.

Not sure about the 'R' but I agree with the other folks who say it means right-hand-side. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

P.S.: Count the gears... http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/yenko.net/4gears.gif

[berger]

That's sounds better to me denis but where is my L onthe left there isn't one just r underlined on under the heater box, that one says h 17, does this mean the right side was welded together the 17th week and the left side was welded together the 19th, did it take that long to get around to the other side, or were they taking their time trying to figure the first bigblocks on how to set them up for their drivetrains, the 1 in 17 is also underlined, but not the 7 or H for that matter, the 1 on the 19 appears underlined but nothing else. ALso was the orig bigblock cars just a z28 body and frame but a different heaterbox, did the z28 also have a taller driver's side mount ( if so probably for weight distribution on trans am tracks?) If the bigblock inherited this platform, they probably didn't forsee the heater box clearance issue till they tried to drop the first one in. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Charley Lillard]

The date stamps were when the panel was stamped out on a machine not when the panel was welded. Your car started as a Camaro body not a SS or Z28, they all start as Camaro bodys. You might go to www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org) and look around. They have plenty of Camaro facts.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
The straight six vins might be factual cuz Harrell could probably take on converting these if copo dropped 427 short blocks in them to start, maybe chevy started w a few of them to get the idea how to set up the big block car for a motor that size ( such as installing a new heater box for clearance and beefier motor mounts, what does a straight six motor mount look like?

[/ QUOTE ] So do you think the 6 VIN on your car may be correct for the car now ?

[berger]

nope, doesn't coincide w/ number stamped into car on top of cowl, and in heaterbox, I'm just saying my car is only on the 107 list which also has straight six vins on it, people say these numbers aren't real yenkos, but the old yenko mechanic has my work orders and ys# on paperwork w/ vin for 5000$ of coarse so I won't be taking possesion of those for awhile. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Belair62]

Who is the old mechanic with paperwork ?

[Charley Lillard]

I think he is talking about Warren. I would make Friends with Warren and get those papers bought..

[berger]

yes,i not sure of his last name, but I know of other guys who got their workorders from him , the orders even tell you if yenko or harrell assembled the conversion, pretty cool. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Belair62]

Well good luck on getting this car doc'd and done....I don't know jack about this stuff and I'm kind of surprised we haven't heard anything from the likes of SYC or BKH to grill you a little bit about it. Hell usually when a car comes on this site it catches some big scrutiny by some very knowledgeable people...that must be a good sign !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[T Billigen]

You Can say that again!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[hvychev]

Yeah come on you sleeping giants!! I want to see someone else get into some sort of controversy for a change! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I hear that Marlin has been to busy getting his hair done and his nails painted to post anymore and that Motown is in a nut house somewhere in Michigan! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[sYc]

Hey, I am just sitting back and watching, as it looks like Berger is getting plenty of valuable information from other sources. In fact, I have already learned a few things. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

I did not know that Chevy built COPO Camaros in '67, especially a run of 427s. That the list of 107 Yenko VINs was for NHRA use, and might contain VINs of straight six cars, which Harrell may have converted.

My only question is, what happens if another car shows up with the missing VIN and trim tag. Who owns what? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[bkhpah]

I have answered all of Bergers questions. He has PM'd me a few times. By the way, weren't you tired of "Diamond Certified" judges answering questions not that long ago. I am one of those judges...BKH

[Charley Lillard]

"My only question is, what happens if another car shows up with the missing VIN and trim tag. Who owns what?"...Good question. So what is the Heart and Soul of the car, the Body or the Trim Tag and vin plate ? I'm thinkin the the Guy with the vin plate has a legal problem since it does not belong on the car it is on.

[JoeC]

Matt seems to be getting a lot of mixed info from different people. I did tell him I was researching a possibility of a COPO for 1967 Camaro but I never said it was for a 427. In my research I found that
On Sep 15, 1966 Don Yenko applied to Chevy for 3 COPOs. One for a different dash for the 67 Stinger, one for a 67 Nova for SCCA A/sedan class and one for a Camaro. It is not clear what Chevy allowed him to order. I also found strange info on four 67 Yenko Camaro trim tags. I told Matt that I don’t think that there were 107 Yenko Camaros built in 1967. There are a few reasons for this. One is that some of the YS#730-YS#740 cars were delivered in Sep of 67 when 1968 cars were already coming out. It does not seem likely that over 50 cars could be built and delivered that late in the year to get from approx YS#760 to YS#7107. There were some YS#6xx numbered cars but there would have to be over 50 of them, which seems unlikely. Yenko had to off load some cars to Harrell’s shop just to keep up with the YS#7xx cars. I have been surprised by some of the new info I found but I have not been able make any conclusions so all this is “just my opinion”. As I said before, I am interested in talking with anyone who is researching the 67 and 68 Yenko Camaros as I believe that more can be discovered if all the info can be pooled.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Not to worry Frank! I was the one who got Berger rolling by telling him that his vin was on the list of 107, not sure on the list of 54, and turned him over to JoeC and Warren D. Sometimes it's better to help people via PM's and phone calls instead of playing the whole thing out in public and drawing 'fire' for helping.

So far it's a tough car, has the right vin in the firewall, but no tags, and.... it's on the list of 107, not sure if it's on the list of 54, but Warren has papers for it. This lends creedance to the expanded count for '67 Yenko cars, and our theory that the 54 cars on the 'list' represents those cars that were sold through SPAN Inc, and were listed for commission payment purposes only. So, the jury is out on this one until more research is done. Berger seems to be doing fine job on that end, props to him, and the winning lottery ticket for that $5000 - that indicates 10 pieces of paper???

[Belair62]

See...all you guys were hibernating....it ain't that cold...Charley since the VIN is still on the body I agree...if someone turns up with those tags they would be the ones out of luck.

[sYc]

What if the other owner (tags) has gone through the proper channels and has a clear title? Lets say a salvage title, where it is legal to combine two cars to make one. I am sure this person would not surrender the tags without a fight and/or compensation. Most likely a issue for the courts to decide.

Also, if Berger goes to have a trim tag made, what codes does he put on it, not knowing how the car was equipped?

As I told him in a PM, IMO, the car is best left as a race car, where these matters are not of such great importance. IMO, the only way I see that the car could be of major value would be if the original tags were reunited with the original body. Otherwise, there will always be this cloud of mystery (missing tags) hanging over the car.

[budnate]

Question from a new guy,

so when a person pays this Warren gentleman for paperwork how complete is it?? what exactly do you recieve??
Does it have a copy of the window sticker in the file??

Bud.

[berger]

kevin already posted his work orders he got from warren , I forget where I saw the thread here, but it cleary states what was to be converted on the car, all the way down to hood pins, it included labor charges, tax etc, and if yenko was doing it or Harrell, when I spoke with warren he said if Harrell was to do the work the car and motor went straight to his shop from the factory and not through canosburg, these orders are good because it gives you a blueprint of how to orig. restore the car, so you wouldn't put sidepipes on the car if they weren't originally ordered.
As for the trimtag, the only things missing in the car is the drivetrain and seats , I got everything else,(chrome exterior app. package, interior app. package chrome, whole dash, headliner(black), and speedometer 120mph, 22,739 miles. Plus allthe suspension, steering, and brakes as I posted in my pics.) The only thing I don't know is if it had deluxe or standard seats, or shoulder belts. I found a former owners' dad in ny, son owned it in79', he' s gonna try to get me in touch w/ him, he sold it as partscar,it seems they owned 2 camaros the other blew its motor and they tried to reg. mine, motor ran but rear was still blown from back in the day so they never drove it, apparently they parted it out seats, steering wheel, rs grill, wheels, until they sold the carw/ motor to I guess the man I am now chasing about pulling the motor in80' nearby. He didn't speak of selling the tags, but it would seem reasonable if it was getting picked apart, that someone who had a 396 and a 67' camaro might just need L78 tags to make his small block look like a legit BB, The father didn't think the motor 427 was orig, because he didn't think they came w/ them in 67'. It sounds like it had dual quads at that time also, but this would coincide w/ the rest of the cars race components that had been installed back when it was racing, they knew it was an old drag car but knew nothing about it being a yenko when they bought it, I hope to get more info from the son and locate who they bought it off, I'll keep trackin' her back to the protectoplate if I gotta. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Charley Lillard]

In my opinion the other guy does not have a Yenko, he has tags and maybe a Title. I see nothing wrong with restoring this car back as a Yenko .

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion the other guy does not have a Yenko, he has tags and maybe a Title. I see nothing wrong with restoring this car back as a Yenko .

[/ QUOTE ]


So, in your opinion, Berger should spare no expense in restoring this car, as it is a Yenko, and once completed, will be worth the investment, as once completed, it will bring the same $$$ as other documented '67 Yenkos.

[Charley Lillard]

I have no idea if he should spare no expense as I have no idea what his financial situation is. I think if restored as a Yenko it will be worth alot more than a Camaro but less than a Orig tagged Yenko. If he restored it as a Yenko what would the SYC consider it ? And would Ed issue it a Certificate ? There are cars out there that are nothing more than Titles and Trim tags that are still selling for Supercar Money and considered Supercars so why should this car be treated as a lessor car ? Great discussion Fodder.

[sYc]

I agree with most of what has been said, except for the part about the missing tags. Here is why. I know of more then one instance where tags from one car were installed on another (accident, rust, other?) with the remaining pieces of the old car left for salvage. Then one day, the body reappears, thus 2 cars with the same VIN. I owned one of 2 '66 Shelby Mustangs with the same VIN and I have been told there is a ZL-1 out there that this has happened to and I know of at least one instance of a Yenko race Corvette being in court over a similar type situation.

And what if the person with the tags had posted first,
would everyone be telling him instead that he has a Yenko? It is a Yenko, but who has what? We all have our opinions of which is of more importance, the body or the tags, but in reality, who can really say, except for a judge? Acknowledging a car's heritage is one thing, its' ownership a whole 'nother ballgame.

[camarojoe]

I know I'd much rather have a real Yenko with missing VIN and trim tags than an original set of Yenko tags riveted to a non-supercar. If the guy with the original tags to this car ever surfaced, I would say all he has is a couple of cool collectibles for his scrapbook, not a Yenko car. As far as value goes, no question a car that hasn't been messed with and has all its tags in place, etc. has more value than one that doesnt, but as Charlie said, there are plenty of cars out there that many consider supercars which are really just original tags riveted to a different body. At least this is a real Yenko car, not just a real Yenko VIN tag. JMO.

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'd much rather have a real Yenko with missing VIN and trim tags than an original set of Yenko tags riveted to a non-supercar. If the guy with the original tags to this car ever surfaced, I would say all he has is a couple of cool collectibles for his scrapbook, not a Yenko car. As far as value goes, no question a car that hasn't been messed with and has all its tags in place, etc. has more value than one that doesnt, but as Charlie said, there are plenty of cars out there that many consider supercars which are really just original tags riveted to a different body. At least this is a real Yenko car, not just a real Yenko VIN tag. JMO.

[/ QUOTE ]


So any supercar out there that has been "rebodied", which if the turth were told would be several, is not legit, regardless of who or how? All these owners really have are items for their scrapbooks? Hmmmm..., glad you said that, not me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[camarojoe]

If the only original Yenko part of your car is a the VIN tag and the body trim tag, then yes, i say its a clone. But I also say, thats simply MY personal opinion.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Just to make things more cloudy, there is a Yenko Camaro here in PA that was stolen years ago. The owner had removed the original engine due to the high gas prices, and had a SB in it. After 5+ years the car is recovered in Florida, as a stolen car - no vin tags. The owner gets the car back, but no VIN plate. Since he had the original title, registration, police report, and the orig engine, it was easy to determine that it was his car. The PA - DOT and the PA State Police actually issued him a special anodized plate with the VIN and riveted it to the firewall, over by the heater box I believe. Now the car is fully titled and registered.

So, if it was possible to do such a thing with this car, Berger may have another avenue to pursue. If this '67 car was indeed stolen in the past, and the tags removed, it might be possible to research the vin in all states looking for a 'stolen vehicle report' - in my mind a viable reason to actually utilize the NICB - and see what comes up in other states. The down side is that maybe the guy who had it stolen might get it back, then you might have to give up the car - unless the owner was paid off by his insurance company. How would that work Kim?

[Jeff H]

I agree Marlin. But he says they did a check to make sure it isn't a stolen car and it came back clean. But is the Yenko VIN actually registered to a 6 cyl car somewhere? Since the hidden VIN verifies this car's heritage, I can't see how it would be worth much less than any other 67-69 Yenko without the original motor. It's a bummer not to have the VIN and trim tag, but the hidden VIN verifies what the car really is. As for the value of a rebodied supercar, it basically is a clone in my opinion. I don't see how you can pull everything off a car and put it on another body shell and call it the original car. The value would be what the engine, trans, rear, interior, fenders, etc. are worth to somebody. If a body shell is rusted or damaged beyond repair, may the car RIP.

[berger]

well. she did come back clean, and my uncle who is a law enforcement officer also restores vetts, so he is using his resources available to him in trying to track my or the six's vin to a current registered car in the tri-state and new england area, no luck yet, our best luck has been contacting former owners through past bills of sale and registrations in the car, its worked well so far back to the mid seventies, right now I'm trying to see if that owner sold the tags to a friend who gave him his six's to slap on when selling car as parts. My uncle says its a federal offense to place wrong tags on a car whether you buy them or not so they could lose the whole car if they don't give them up when found(the main problem w/ swithchin tags isn't theft, these cars were 5000 new back then , it was taking a car and committing a big time crime and dumping the vehicle w/ bogus tags to avoid evidence getting traced back to you, he says the whole reason the companies had to place the vin stamp in the heater box and cowl was that not many criminals wwere either knowledgeable or thorough enough to belt sand these off to cover tracks,many didn't even know where they are, Your also forgetting one important point in determining these cars for resale, I've had guys tell me PM to just have new tags made and placed on car, they speak as if they've done it before, that scares me for whoever bought their stuff at auction, in conclusion, we'll be doing the resto ourselves, for 50,000 I could do 3 67's over from scratch, I'd never pay the kind of money at auction some pay, its like legalized gambling you hope its real , you tell youreslf its a good investment like real estate and you can't lose, well like the stock market good luck if the market turns. I see it this way I paid 500 for her we'll do everything in house from engine rebuild, to welding to paint, and we'll enjoy doing it not because what it may be worth in the future, but because we enjoy making something from just about nothing and we can use it for 15yrs and paint it again, in my eyes if A car doesn't have its orig drivetrain ( which is really what seperated these cars from the flock) well than its worth about what my unorig 327 67' is worth since they look identical, about5000 to 8000 if I sell it at prime time at a car show in the spring, hey guys its just a neglected car nobody took the time to take care of, its not the cure for cancer, ya know. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Belair62]

What exactly does this list of 107 mean ? Especially if there are 6 cyl VIN's as has been said previously ? Are we to assume that all of these 107 were 427 cars ? And is there any way to actually prove that ? How do people know that this list is a list of Super Cars ?

[berger]

I'm just learning this stuff on the fly too, some guys say their is a 54 list which no one knows when it was drafted ,its purpose , or where it was sent too. Then there is a list of 107 that was sent to the nhra apparently on two seperate occasions, for qualified status. the 107 has groups of vins that are also on the 54 but some that are not including straight six vins, I hear there is an 67 car that isn't on either list but has tons of paperwork, so I don't know, maybe if your on one list you get 50000, 2lists you get 100000, 3 certified `documents equals one list , I don't know, if you don't have a matching vin on motor and car its like rolling the dice to me, and none of these had a partial vin on 427, if the guy didn't budge on the 1000 he wanted when I bought it for the four piston calipers then I would of passed and wouldn't be losing any sleep over it, I don't intend to lose any now cuz the last six owners left her out to rust and the orig. owner used her the way they were all and still meant to be used and ripped her twelve bolt out and threw it away dropped in a super 88 rear w/ 5.13 gears and proceeded to blow those right out of her, my hat's off to him, I'll try and do the same and make him proud http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sYc]

Berger, this list of 107 VINs. How did you arrive at the conclusion that it was for NHRA use, (NHRA required either 50 or 500), and also, that it contained straight 6 numbers?

[berger]

i got that info from the deuce registry , he only needed 50 but submitted 107, twice, got rejected twice, they knew they were dealer installed and dodge was pressuring nhra. Unless I got that info wrong I'm pretty sure I got the same from other sources through private mail. I figured all you guys owned all these lists, now I think only some got them and some just partials, I hear vince in the day would give you a copy of the sheet yours was on, you guys must be piecing these partials together, at least privately. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
hey guys its just a neglected car nobody took the time to take care of, its not the cure for cancer, ya know.


[/ QUOTE ] Agreed...and drive it like youe stole it !

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

That's a first for me Berger, I honestly don't know what the list of 107 is for. Must have been another PM you got that info from! I saw that your vin was on the list of 107, but we're not sure if it's on the list of 54 since we don't have that full list. However, Vince does, and if he has your VIN then it's a good indicator that it is on the 54 list, probably a SPAN car, and probably not sold out of Yenko.

My contention is that the list of 54 was for commission payment purposes that were due to SPAN, and therefore may not include those cars sold via sYc - ie; non-SPAN cars. As for the 107 count? I don't really even have any theories on it, nor do I know anything about Dodge dealer pressure?

Good luck, and keep searching http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly does this list of 107 mean ? Especially if there are 6 cyl VIN's as has been said previously ? Are we to assume that all of these 107 were 427 cars ? And is there any way to actually prove that ? How do people know that this list is a list of Super Cars ?

[/ QUOTE ]


I cannot speak for others, but here is what I have.

The list of 107 '67 VINs is actually 106 VINs, as at the bottom of the page is a note pointing out where one number was listed twice. This notation was by DY.

All of the VINs on the list are for V8s.

At the top of the page is typed YENKO SUPER CAMAROS. One sheet is the original and another one is a copy, with notes in pink by DMM. Along with the sheets are several hand written lists with notations, as well as a print out from Chevrolet listing info for 35 of the cars. In addition is a copy of a sheet of info that appears to be cars sold through Span. Some of these cars are listed as 450 HP and others as 410HP.

Is this list valid? All I can say is, these documents, along with numerous others, were purchased from the Yenko estate and are contained in a folder that has a Yenko label on it with "Confidential, YENKO SUPER CAMARO "427" SALES AND DEALER INFORMATION".

And I have yet to see a VIN from a documented '67 Yenko not appear on this list. Actually the opposite, with documented cars not appearing on the original list of 54, but showing up on this one.

[JoeC]

Tom, do you have a copy of the letter to Wally Parks from Don Yenko dated Aug 7, 1967 where Don writes about 107 Camaros (1967) 150 Stingers, and 600 1968 Yenko Super Camaros?

[JoeC]

also is the vin YS#604 N185034 on the list of 106 cars?

[Kim_Howie]

Marlin, Just read this post I kind of remember one of my Insurance co. paid off for a stolen camaro with that same serial# So I guess it's my car YEA YEA that's it... Just kidding I would say the co. that paid it off would own it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[berger]

feel free if you want to pay my new premiums once she's done, http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[berger]

does anyone know what week or what vin started
the big block run at norwood in june of 67', also does any one know if any early ones left w/o a 4code like some early z's did, Exactly what does 2B in the trim code mean, is it possible for 4spd on early BBs. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeC]

Matt,
check the CRG web site
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#67Codes
I believe 2B is 3 speed floor shift and even the very early Z/28 and L78 had a 4code (I think 4P) instead of the 4L or 4K correct codes
If your build date is 6E your vin should be more like N241xxx

I found this on a Yenko dealer network list
Central Chevrolet inc
675 memorial ave
west Springfield mass 01089

[Jeff H]

I think the build date on the car is either 05D or 05E because I saw a car with VIN 228xxx was 05E.

[berger]

they're still in business Joe but second owner, I called they said they had no paperwork back that far but would ask around, anyone no what Parks's old black 67 yenko also out springfield chevy ys # is, I'm trying to find out if they took receipt of three yenkos at the same time in late june of 67', 1 red(mineys722), 1 blackparks(ys#?), 1? (may have also been bought by guy that bought mine for racing. Two cars for resale used in may of 68' by rudys'motors also in springfield for only 3195 for both , also one for private resale in same newspaper also in springfield for 5100, anyone now howmany 67 yenkos springfield sold that year. Also tracked today a rudys motors in seagrave ny from ad for 2 yenkos in 68' and robert shuttler was name of phone # for 5100 $ yenko then, family still lives at number but I believe he's deceased, I found a shuttlers corner in springfield, I'm wondrering if they named a park or street after him if he died in vietnam(possibly reason for sale in 68'), would any one know if this is parks' car now by any chance. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JChlupsa]

Correct, 2B = (M11) Three speed floor shifter

[JoeC]

Parks black car was YS#713 sold out of Central

[Charley Lillard]

Park's old Black car was shipped to Central with three others. a black one and two deepwater blue ones. The typed in ship date was 7/5/67 but there was a stamped date of Aug 12 1967. Your car was not on the shipping list with Park's.

[berger]

my car was a 05e trim if I ever find it of coarse, do you have a june shipping order to central w/ 1 or two red ones on it.Wait how long did it take yenko to convert then ship a car, maybe it shipped as late as aug. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[JoeC]

One of the problems I have with the list of 107 Yenko 1967 Super Camaros is the late dates of known YS#s. There are numbers in the YS750s range with delivery dates in late Aug. 67. If Yenko’s YS7xx number did not even hit 60 by Aug. 67 I don’t see where the other 47 cars came from. (107-60=47). When researching the 107 number list I see that the first 61 numbers on the list look like they can be real Yenko 427 Camaros. The vin no. on Yenko’s batch order list fall in the first 61. The vins from 62 to 107 appear to be a random list that varies from very early cars to very late cars. I have 37 vin numbers that I believe are real Yenko 1967 Super Camaros. 35 on my vin list fall in the first 61 of 107 vins. Two of my 35 Yenko vins are not even on the 107 list. ED C. shows about 65 1967 Yenko Camaros. How many documented cars are on the list between 62-107? I don’t show any documented cars on the list between 62 and 107 but I don’t have all the numbers.

[berger]

joe do you know my ys# for sure, I was told 722, see where that number corresponds in your batch order list, also would early cars have shipped in late 66', and are you sure all the cars on the list are camaros or could they be stingers mixed in too.

[sYc]

On my list of 106 '67 VINs, I have supporting evidence to back of about 60 of the numbers. These numbers are backed up by various documents that came with the list. It appears that these documents were used to compile the list and suggest that the list is indeed valid. It was because of the various sources of info used to compile the list, and how they were added to the list, which causes confusion. One must view these documents along side the 106 list to totally understand how and why the list exists.

And, if you arrange the list by VIN, lowest to highest, it is the first batch that is missing. The first 45. Why, I do not know. Maybe not assigned SYC numbers, not converted, small block cars converted, Stormers? Hopefully as more cars are discovered and documented, this and other questions will be answered. Until then, I am not going to discount any of the numbers of the list as non-Yenkos.

I know Don Yenko was known to inflate production numbers a bit, but I honestly do not believe he would "create" VIN numbers. If caught using false numbers, which would have been easy to check, could have meant big trouble for Don and Yenko Chevy.

[berger]

Any info if yenko offered L 88 heads or dual quads as an option, Guy who pulled motor says it had both on a 66' cast iron block, w/ high rise intake (sounded like an old 60s style supercharger the way he described it)....

[berger]

Can you believe we got another vin on two old bills of sale, its no where to be found on the car, 123377O24223, looks like a dash at the end on one of the bills of sale.. Any ideas what the heck this is, its a low numer(early) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[sYc]

Something to think about in regards to the '67 Yenko. Berger bought the car from a Police auction, with, I am assuming, a receipt from the police. But, at that time the car had a VIN plate attached for a 6 cyl. car, not the Yenko. Thus, what he bought, and has a receipt for, would be for the 6 cyl car, not the Yenko, basically no proof he legally bought the Yenko body. And I doubt that if the police had known the car's VIN tag did not match the stamped number, they would have sold it. At least not without a ton of red tape.

So, who actually legally owns the Yenko body? Berger or the person with the title and/or the VIN/trim tags or ???? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Excellent question!

[sYc]

Credit goes to Rob for the question. I did not have an answer for him, so I thought I would throw it out there and see what others thought.

[Jeff H]

I would tend to think it's the other way around. He bought the car, not the paperwork. The fact that the paperwork is messed up means the situation needs to be corrected. As long as the original paperwork(title) for the car is not listed as a stolen vehicle, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to get the correct title issued for the car. If there's a 6 cyl Camaro driving around with the Yenko VIN and title, then that guy could be in trouble as well. I tend to think the car may never have been titled if it was built to be a race car from day 1. So somebody swapped tags so they could sell it with a title. I'm a little surprised they took the trim tag off though.

[berger]

Well here's the deal, it now has a Ma. title w/ its real vin, all numbers we ran through registry cane back clean, they allow you to title it and own it as long as its clean and you pay any back sales tax on it which we did, I got it from a Ma. dealer licensed, in this state dealers can sell cars w/o a title, the responsibility is on the private party to title it and pay sales tax, we never titled it because we never thought until now we were going to restore just use it as parts for another. The dealer actually bought it at auction or the previous owner whose cancelled ny registration from 1980 we found in the glove box, the stamp says invalid when used in conjunction w/ the affixed # s. The car comes back clean twice now on all #s associated with it, it appears it never had a title, simply raced, parted out along the way including tags, it appears now that the dealer has the orig race motor w/ dual quadsand L88 heads, he also may have the trim tag, he collects the good stuff from cars and sits on them, we hope to go over next week to finally see what he really has, he doesn't have the vin plate, that was there when he bought it and at least the previous owner in the late 70s, I have recently got in touch w/ that owner's dad in ny, I hope he can get me in touch w/ the son and possibly he can explain where the vin tag went.It appears he owned it between 77-80, and vince emmy owned it in 70-71, I'm one owner away from connecting the dots, Vince is trying to go through old paperwork to see if it had tags then I would think so but you never know, he did say he bought the car off a drag racer who only used it as such, it appears the car is exactly in the same shape as when he had it in71' minus the motor but we've located that we think, just don't know if the dealer will part w/ it, He has 6 427's from the late sixties amongst other goodies, I know another guy locally got 5 66/67 427s, some guys just sit on them , won't sell or trade, both seem to be old school drag racers so they now what they have. I still believe the car came w/ another from Rudys' auto in springfield in may of68' two yenkos for 3000, that's a good price seeing both were about 9 mths old, so I think both were dragged in late 67, and by spring 68' must of had about everything blown on them except one motor, well we're a lot closer to getting it all together, past owners have all been real helpful so far. It also appears these 2 67 yenkos traveled w/ each other from at least 68-81 into Ma. by way of ny, both orig. sold at central chevy in springfield Ma. In the end I hope to possibly find out the fate of this other yenko stablemate, obviously someoneelse nearby has an old race car too that they don't know is ayenko...Registry said I can hold the title on her as is, but if I want to put her on the ropad I'll have to get a registration which means I'll need tags, they can either give me reconstructed tags or I can hold out till I possibly track down the old ones, actually they don't care about trim tag just vin tag..I should know a lot more of her history the next two weeks. Thanks to all for your help and leads.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[berger]

front sway bar measures 15/16 not 13/16 as found on ss427s, but I believe the bar found on yenko race prep cars, does anyone have any literature on actual bar used on 67 yenkos, or 68s as it appears as a may car it did not ship till august, thanks ,

[Stuart Adams]

After reading all the posts - I need a drink!!! I hope there isn't a quiz at the end... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I can't seem to follow it either, pour one for me as well!

[berger]

I'm buying the round if any one can figure this one out!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jeff H]

It's easy, Berger has a Yenko, but was it a Dick Harrell Yenko or a Yenko that went through Dick Harrell's shop or a Motion modified Yenko? At least we know it's not a Nickey Berger Motion Harrell Yenko. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Oh yeah, who's on first?

[berger]

did any other converters use a sway bar that big , are you talking possible trade?? to yenko network http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif