1967 Camaro Pace Car

[Speedrx]

Does anyone know anything about this car?

67 Pace Car (http://backwebs.homenetinc.com/stasekchevrolet/details.asp?vehicle_id=224006&path_taken=Showroom)

[jg95z28]

Only that its been for sale at that dealer for over a year now.

At that price I'm guessing "relicamaro." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Speedrx]

The car looks nice in the pictures and the "price is right".

It does not say it is a fake or clone anywhere so I was wondering why is has not sold (or why I should't buy it). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Jeff H]

Get the cowl tag information and that will tell whether it is a real Pace Car or a wannabe.

[Jonesy]

I remember this car listed elsewhere and the description said something like authentic pace car striping package http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif or something that pretty much said it was a clone. If it wasnt a clone, it would have sold long ago.

[SuperNovaSS]

I had mine over a year and sold it for that price. The rear antenna kinda kills this one though.


Jason

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
I had mine over a year and sold it for that price. The rear antenna kinda kills this one though.
Jason

[/ QUOTE ]
Very detailed information in the ad, At least we know its a 67 Camaro and its white. I would definatly hire this guy to do my ad slicks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Sam

[indycamaro]

Pretty sure it's a clone, here is another add for the same car stating "Complete decal pkg ...", its listed about 20 or so down. 67IPC (http://www.cars-on-line.com/camaromenu.html)

[Speedrx]

I was wondering if anyone in the area had looked at the car and verified the numbers either way since it has been for sale for a long time. I am with you - looks like it is probably a replica.

[matt murphy]

This car has to be a put together look-a-like. The VIN is about 70,000 cars earlier than the first recorded 1967 pace car which is 191XXX. The first '67 pace cars were built the 3rd week of March. None built the 4th week for some reason, but the majority of the dealer and festival Pace Cars were built during the 4 weeks of April. There were Camaros built during the months of May, June and July, but they did not receive the pace car package, even though they were White RS/SS convertibles with deluxe blue interior. Those cars came with black pin stripes and a black bumble bee stripe. There were Canadian Pace Cars built and they were all built during the 3rd week of June. Those cars came with the blue striping like the 300 or so US built pace cars. Roughly 110 were used at the track during the month of May and some 200 or so were ordered by dealers. The dealer cars had the C-1 paint code and the Festival track cars all had the 0-1 paint code. The Canadian cars had the 0-1 paint code as well. The Los Angeles, CA built pace cars were all built during the 4 weeks of April. No festival cars were built in the CA plant.

Charlie, if you were wondering, your car had at least 14 other pace cars built before yours and the backup car. The first dealer built Pace car was in the 1st week of April and the last festival built pace car was also in the 4th week of April. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Speedrx]

Matt,

Good information, thanks for the response.

Gary

[JoeC]

Matt, do you know anything about the dash on the trim tag on some 67 pace cars? I was told it is on some trim tags but not others?

[427TJ]

Could those last '67 Camaro convertibles (and coupes) built with blue interiors and black nose and pinstripes have been part of the "Pacesetter" sale? I've seen a few Pacesetter cars and they are usually plain-Jane 6-cylinders with a bumblebee stripe. No doubt a few of them got converted into Pace Car look-alikes.

[matt murphy]

JoeC,

Yes, the dash ( - ) is found in the 4th or 5th group depending on if there is a 5th group on the trim tag. It is ironically on all Pace cars built in March and April and only on the Canadian cars in June. I have seen quite a few '67 Camaros built in May, June, and July that were identical to the Pace Cars but none of them had the ( - ). I have researched these pace cars for years and I never say never, but I still have not seen any later than April with the dash. I believe that the dash is a special Paint code for the Blue striping. I saw a white ext. on red int. '67 SS conv. with a dash in the fifth group and the car was original paint and it had a red bumble bee stripe and pin stripe. Weird why they would put that dash on the trim plate, but it is there as well as some festival and dealer cars with the fleet codes (050A, 061A, 062A, and 070A), also no cars had the fleet codes after April and the Canadian cars had no fleet codes.

As far as the pacesetter sale cars, I am not sure, but bet a lot of them were. I had a dealer tell me that his rep asked him in Dec or Jan if he wanted to get a Pace Car, and he said no. When he saw the photos of one, he called his rep and said order me one. He was told that it was too late. He told me that he ordered a White RS/SS with deluxe blue interior. Figuring it would be a pace car he said that it came in with a black nose and pin stripe and no decals. I have a picture of me next to a Pace setter sale Camaro, V-6 conv with a blue top that my dad had in '67. I was a year old and it had a black nose and pin stripe. I bet a lot of dealers ordered that color combination late after Chevy released the photos of the car. Sears did a Pace Car give away and it was a v-6 pace setter car with the 500 decals on it. The dealer told me that he ordered a set of the pace car decals for his car and sold it as one. He said he told another dealer friend of his to order one with the stripe delete and he did and he painted a blue stripe on it and ordered the decals through parts and also sold it as a pace car. It would be hard to explain that one today if that car turned up by the original owner. The dealer did say that it was last known to be in TX. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[olredalert]

Matt,

------Pretty sure its just a minor brain fart,but I dont think there were any V-6s put in any 67 Camaros.......Bill S

[matt murphy]

Bill,

There were some 60,000 V-6 Camaros built in 1967 . . . I guess that most of the Pace Setter cars were V-6's, but then again, I'm sure they were V-8's as well. Must have been a bad brain fart . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Jeff H]

Maybe a 6 cyl, but not a V-6!

[MotownMadman]

In the sixties I believe the only V-6 engines GM had were a small 231? aluminum buick, and a iron GMC truck engine.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Musclecarkid]

I believe the aluminum engine you are refering to was a V6 213 Buick that came in some Skylarks in the 60's. The Camaros used the L6-230 and L6-250 engines for 6-cyl applications. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[olredalert]

-----Guess thats what I was getting at........Bill S

[matt murphy]

AH Yes . . . technicalities . . . either not enough sleep on my part or maybe I just never paid much attention to a V6 or L6, I guess when they are only good for . . ., well not much . . ., and you only have V8 Muscle and 427's on your mind, then anything lesser . . . can slip by . . . un-noticed http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[olredalert]

------Matt-----6 in a row make it go. Ask Clifford,LOL!!!!!!
------Are you guys contemplating any sort of modified new GTOs? I seem to be in the minority,but it looks like a great platform for one of your build-ups!.......Bill S

[matt murphy]

Bill,

A GTO would be cool to work on because the powertrain is great. BUT, we work with dealers, so if any of them can come up with 30 or so GTO's then we might be interested, but we don't work on street cars and therefore we might not touch a GTO for a few years, just like the new Vette coming out. Again, it will take dealers a while to get the inventory of those because they are selling as fast as they get them. Both will be on our plate I bet in a few years, unless GM wants us to do something special for a limited run. I will keep my options open. Thanks for asking . . .

[FESTIVAL78]

Matt. Great time to pose this question..What significance could the dash - have thats on the trim tag at the cowl for a nose stripe thats painted at a different factory all together ( I'm to understand that the nose was painted at GM and the body at Fisher)? My buddy Mike has documented special order paint with dashes just like you..It would seem you are correct but I cannot figure out how..Did the trim tag have info that the GM guys read as well as the Fisher guys??? Charley..Question for you..It has been said that the Festival cars received clear coat over the paint..I'm been unable to find proof of this. Does 92 have clear coat? Can I bring my 400 grit paper to Carlisle and find out for myself? T http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif

[FESTIVAL78]

Oh..and what I know of this car is that it is overpriced by 10K..Still nice though

[MotownMadman]

Matt,
You got mail. And you are long winded!
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[matt murphy]

I wish we could find out what the - (dash) on the trim tag means for sure. Right now, it is a guess, but I can't think of anything that the - would mean otherwise. Maybe there was someone in the dept that printed the trim tags and to identify them they put a dash on there somewhere . . . it would only fit at the end of a line as the other spots were taken and it might have been easy to put one there. Maybe all these Pace Cars have a hole or something indented into them, but then again, other cars have a dash on the tag as well . . . a mystery still to this day . . .

On another note . . . anyone see a hole punch in the bottom of a trim plate ?? about the size of a 1/8" punch ?? I have seen this on many trim plates, not a ton, but more than a few . . . any ideas ??

[FESTIVAL78]

I have never noticed the 1/8" punch but wasn't looking either..I'll check mine. The - does make sense for the paint to me but only if the GM plant workers also read the trim tag. Many Norwood cars that I've seen have the tag painted white as if hit with a shot of spray paint(can).If the Fisher guys read the tag and built their part with paint being the final task then why paint the tag white unless the GM side needed to read it as well (I suspect the white helped to shadow the tag imprints for better readability?)I've seen tags that were taped over and remained silver color? Another method of keeping them readable?

[FESTIVAL78]

Matt and Charley..What are your thoughts on the clear coat assumption..I'm hedging towards no at this point but that throws a curve ball to the C-1 vs. 0-1 explainations

[JoeC]

I have been researching a similar dash that I found on my 67 Yenko Camaro trim tag and 3 other documented 67 Yenko Camaros so am also researching a little on the dash on 67 Pace cars. I am not happy with the quantity of data to make any firm conclusions but here are some theories I am working on. Some Camaro researchers tell me my dash was for special paint but I know the original owner of my car who said it had the white stripe no different then other SS Camaros. Also I would think that a dash just for paint or stripe delete would be in the paint code field of the trim tag not in the area of the 4-5 code field. On the 67 pace cars there were some factory clear coat paint cars with a 0-1 paint code where other cars had a C-1 paint code. I think the dash in the 4-5-code field was for some type of COPO. This would not be a high performance COPO but one for a fleet or special order. I have found strange trim tags on police cars, military vehicles, red cross bloodmobiles and other cars that I believe were ordered COPO not RPO. One of the Camaro books reprinted some original Chevy documents on the 67 Indy 500 program where they list 79 vehicles (Camaros, 9-pass wagons, ¾ ton trucks, and ½ ton trucks) After the list is this sentence quoted from this document “ All vehicles with the exception of the brass hat cars have already been ordered out of Central Office for delivery as follows”. Does this mean a COPO was done on these dash cars? Maybe the dash in the 4-5 field of trim tag was some type of identification mark that told the assembly plant that there were some special instructions required for this car. A dash stamped vehicle could have had an information package that traveled with the car from time of trim tag stamping. When a dash car showed up, they knew the car had some type of special instructions required for delivery. I have some of the original files from Yenko’s Canonsburg office where I found documents where Don was requesting a COPO on the 67 Camaro but it is not clear what he was asking for. I don’t think it was for hi po equipment but more for a fleet order. There are a few reasons why I think Yenko may have been allowed to COPO vs RPO some of the 67 Camaros. Don was always looking for low price on the base car for his Supercars so a fleet order may have allowed a lower price same as a fleet order of taxi cabs or phone co. cars would allow special pricing. The fleet order would allow Don to order a large quantity of L78 Camaros. It was difficult to get an L78 Camaro in 67. There were only 1140 L78 Camaros built in 67 which would be less then 3 per dealer and Yenko batch ordered about 50 L78s. Yenko’s 1967 ads specified 4 colors which also indicated some type of batch order for some of his cars. All this is my opinion from my research on the 67 Yenkos but maybe this will help someone who is researching the 67 Pace cars with dash on trim tag.

[FESTIVAL78]

Excellent theorizing..Besides the published books do you have any thoughts on the validity of the clear coat?

[67ss350Camaro]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note . . . anyone see a hole punch in the bottom of a trim plate ?? about the size of a 1/8" punch ?? I have seen this on many trim plates, not a ton, but more than a few . . . any ideas ??

[/ QUOTE ]

CRG has been tracking this for some time now. At this point it just looks like the only think in common is that they are in groups throughout the year.

As far as the dash goes, we have data on more than a dozen cars that have the dash that are not pace cars. Looks like it was just used for some kind of special order purposes.

[FESTIVAL78]

Oh and by the way JoeC,,I could get used to calling my smallblock pacer a COPO! But that might be splitting hairs http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[JoeC]

I almost didn't use the term "COPO" because the magazines have blown up the term into a name for hi po 427 and LT1 cars that gets people over-excided but really there were a lot of "COPO" cars and trucks made for fleet and special orders that could not be built as RPO. It is unfortunate that Chevy didn’t keep better records of all the special vehicles they built but it would have been a huge record-keeping task.
The non Pace cars with dash on trim tags may be some type of special fleet order but nothing to do with racing. I read that some of the zones would get dealers together and order a fleet of cars with colors or options that were not available with RPO. They would run some type of local promotional campaign to sell the cars and build showroom traffic. I remember reading about special zone orders not only GM but others auto co.
Chevy took the 67 Pace car program very seriously. Looking through the GM documentation they mention the Central Office a few times. They even had a “Central Office Headquarters Room” at the Speedway Motel and set up a blanket purchase order so any cost to the Indy zones can be “ rebilled to Chevrolet Central Office Merchandising Department”. I would love to see those bills going by stories I have read about race car drivers and promo cars.
There is no mention of clear coat cars in these docs but I read somewhere else that the cars used at the speedway had factory clear coat. Maybe because of the sandblasting effect of running around the Indy track at high speed? Not sure about that but you know there must have been some hi speed runs in the Camaro L78s.

[jg95z28]

I just found another ad for the same car on Collector Car Trader.

Note the term "Pace Car Appearance"?

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/2/8/62485328.htm

[69RSZ]

I called about this car about a year ago and they said it was NOT a real pace car.just the decals were added. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mark_C]

[ QUOTE ]
There were Canadian Pace Cars built and they were all built during the 3rd week of June. Those cars came with the blue striping like the 300 or so US built pace cars. Roughly 110 were used at the track during the month of May and some 200 or so were ordered by dealers. The dealer cars had the C-1 paint code and the Festival track cars all had the 0-1 paint code. The Canadian cars had the 0-1 paint code as well. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The 11 small block Canadian pacecars (out of 22 built, plus the AJ Foyt replacement Pacecar with A/C) weren't even SS'es. They were all LF7 327/210HP Rally sports. Just a little tidbit of little known info.

Don't qoute me the old USCC article that says they were L48 RS/SS'es, because its wrong, I've seen the GM of Canada paperwork on these. None of the SB cars are SS'es.

[FESTIVAL78]

JoeC great info.. I'm curious where info like the Zone office purchase order etc. comes from. I've heard tales of maybe a GM list of Festival cars and VINs could emerge? it would be great to get some solid figures on production for a change..It's so odd that so many have been found compared to say 67 Z28's where more than twice as many were made yet so few have made " The registry "..I think the distinctive colors of the Pacers vs the Z's and the abuse the Z's would have experienced has something to do with it but that doesn't seem to be enough of a reason.

[FESTIVAL78]

That would be news to me on the Canadian cars..The only reason they are on the registry is because of found paperwork, not found cars! I've never seen a Canadian Pacer..I'd like to see one that has rs not ss..Please prove this to me..If true thanks very much! Anyone have figures on actual discovered or documented Canadian cars? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif..I'm guessing 3 and all bigblocks (ss's of course)

[Mark_C]

Actually I was probably being to harsh on the old USCC article, if you look at the options listed in that article (which does include the VIN's of all 22 or them) in there for the small block cars you don't see either, Z27, or L48 listed. Everyone just assumed they were SS's.

And of course the 396 cars are RS/SS's.

[68l30]

Here is a shot of a 67 trim tag with the "hole" .....This was a pretty neat car! Long gone and will stay that way....


Steve

[Zedder]

"The 11 small block Canadian pacecars (out of 22 built, plus the AJ Foyt replacement Pacecar with A/C) weren't even SS'es. They were all LF7 327/210HP Rally sports. Just a little tidbit of little known info.

Don't qoute me the old USCC article that says they were L48 RS/SS'es, because its wrong, I've seen the GM of Canada paperwork on these. None of the SB cars are SS'es."

I can vouch for what Mark is saying...since I am Canadian and my first Camaro at 17 was a Canadian Pace Car - and it was an RS - I've got the GM paperwork on the car to boot. Also, I was contacted by a fellow in Grimsby, Ontario 2 weeks ago who has one also. I can email you his trim tag for proof if you need it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif BTW, it has the - code after the 5BY also and 0-1 paint.

[matt murphy]

JoeC,

Great info . . . I don't think the 0-1 was a clear coat paint. I thought at first it was, but did they even have clear coat paint then and if so, what would it do for the cars. I believe it could have been a different, brighter, GM White, maybe from a Cadillac, Buick, etc. I was told they did that because it helped the decals stand out on the car better for public viewing from the grand stand or watching them on TV or in the parades.

If the - (dash) is not a stripe delete for the bumblebee and pin stripe, then my second guess is that maybe it is for different shocks or springs for these cars as they were used for parade purposes and they knew these cars would be carrying heavy loads. I have had a few guys say that their pace cars didnt have the right springs or shocks in them and they just replaced them with correct ones.

My guess though is that the - (dash) still had something to do with a paint delete . . . Didn't the '68's have a - (dash) as a paint delete ?? What about some '67 Yenkos with no stripes on them ?? Are there any like that ?? I think it was a paint delete item that just ended up in the 4th or 5th group in '67.

[Kurt S]

Yes, at least 2 of the LF7 Canadian pacers have been found.

I agree - at this point I think the - is just 'Special Instructions'.

And no, Chevy never looked at the trim tag. It was for Fisher only.

[matt murphy]

Kurt,

Any chance someone was at the end of the line (who may have been employed by Fisher Body, or even a plant worker) checking that cars were built like they should have been in reference to the trim tags. With no computers then, humans would need to check for these things. My '67 Pace Car has the white paint on the tag. It is also like Charlies in that it has a 4P code but is a documented 375HP car. Weird stuff happened to those cars and some of it happened for a reason. Why do some of the Festival and Dealer Pace Cars have the 050A, 060A, 061A, and 070A fleet codes and why do some of them not, and why did those codes end up in the 4th or 5th group if they were part of the Pace Car RPO option code. I have a friend that has a '67 Pace car, C-1, with a 061A in the 5th group and her body broadcast sheet has at the bottom . . . FN061A Pace Car Option. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif I guess if one of the 070A owners had their broadcast copy it might say FN070A Pace Car Option. Why different fleet codes? I have always found these cars to be fascinating because of the challenging facts that should be simple to find out, but aren't. One day, I will be able to sleep at night when these codes are figured out. Someone has to know what these mean, it shouldn't be that difficult. The more we talk about these items together, the better chance we have of figuring them out.

Thanks for your input and Keep It Coming . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mark_C]

The 0-1 paint code is for the show finish white paint with clear coat over the decals on the door. The dash is anther special instruction that has been rumored to be associated with the blue nose stripe as that was not a standard color. Don't know whay there are different fleet numbers unless they are associated with specific GM sales zones.

[FESTIVAL78]

Just found a guy with a 327 Canadian Pacer bidding on Ebay...TALK ABOUT COINCIDENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!,Will get his info for the crowd...I was under the impression the Festival decals were installed at the track..Cannot clear coat over stickers that were not even on the car..The truths of the past are dropping like flies on this thread..I love it..Keep it coming..Tom http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mark_C]

I believe all the festival cars (0-1 code)in 67 left the factory with the decals already on the car. I've seen the preparation instructions for the 67's somewhere that indicated the decals were cleared over to keep the shine up on the cars. Maybe in Donna Crispino's pace car book?

Charley L. has one or the original pace cars he should know for sure.

[FESTIVAL78]

Matt..Original owner of my festival car has story of rear axle replacement after dealer torched off iron bar stock that was welded to the axle tubes..Dealer claimed the car was used in the parade and sat embarrassingly low with a trailer on the back in the parade. They welded the iron in as bumpstops and subsequently damaged the rear axle taking them off. I'd love to see a picture of the bottom of that broadcast copy with "pace car option" on it..please. Mine has white paint on trim tag 04A car. In the 80's we had a ton of mercury cougars around here that had emblems that said Bostonian Edition on them..maybe along the same lines with the dealers getting together for a mass puchase with special stuff?..The springs in my pacer are original and seemingly normal.

[JoeC]

The docs I am looking at are in The Hooper 67-68 Camaro ref book. It has about 15 pages of docs from Chevy and Campbell-Ewald (GM ad agency)on 67 Pace cars. The dates go back to March 1967. Does anyone have vin numbers and build dates of early 67 Pace car's with L78? They look like very early L78's and I am looking for early L78 vin numbers and trim tag dates.

[txrsss]

I have a photo of a http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifcowl tag from 67 Canadian pace car, but it's too big. Can anyone reduce the size of the image so that I can post it here?

[txrsss]

Sorry, FestivalL78 couldn't make it smaller!

M http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Mark_C]

I can do it. Send it to me.

[txrsss]

Mark,

Thanks!!! It's on the way....dial up sucks!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Mark_C]

At 802K I guess it would. Have cable connection, on 24/7 mail is checked every 5 minute, so my mailbox never fills and takes about 20 seconds to retreive 1 Meg.

Anyway heres the image attaced reduced to about 50K bytes.

[JChlupsa]

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
7 = 1967 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant

Decode for body number: 136897

06C = Built the Third week of June.
67-12667 = Custom Interior Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
732 = Custom Bright Blue Bucket Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats.
O-1 = Lower Color is SPECIAL PAINT and the Convertible Top Color is White.
R = Interior paint is Bright Blue
Options:
1D = (C06) Power top convertible
2M = (M35) Powerglide Transmission
2G = (D55) Console front compartment
3S = (Z23) Interior Decor group
3L = (Z22) Rally Sport Package
5B = (V31 & V32) Front and Rear Large Bumper Guards
5Y = (A39) Belts All Deluxe
- = Special Order/Fleet Code

[txrsss]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[txrsss]

HEERREEEE'S the photo!!!!

Mike

[Mark_C]

Here's one of the -061 Fleet code body broadcast sheets. I removed the identifying VIN, BODY NO and Keycodes numbers cause the owner (assuming this car still exists) may not want the info displayed.

[indycamaro]

Some things I thought you all might find interesting for the 67 pace cars from my collection.
· The ad proof for the centerfold Camaro ad in the 1967 Indy 500 program
· Pace setter proof ad
· Docs from my 67 pace car, window sticker, protecto plate, Dealer invoice and original finance contract.
67 Indy Camaro (http://www.nppal.com/67_indy_camaro.htm)

[matt murphy]

I have to say that I'm amazed about the small block Canadian Pace Cars being without the SS350 package, but I would bet big bucks that someone messed up entering the orders, since they were all human entered back then. Also, by the time someone found out, it was probably too late to build more '67s. Someone at the plant probably thought it was strange, but they were special ordered for Canada and someone probably thought it was for a special run.

Has anyone seen Sear's '67 Pace Car give away car from back then ?? It was a base V-8 Camaro with the Pace Car decals on it . . . A Chevy dealer told me that back then it wasn't a big deal to add those decals and sell it as a Pace Car and get in on the Pace Car hype. No one thought of them as collector editions like we do today . . .

I still say that someone screwed up on those Canadian small block pacers . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[Mark_C]

There was an article in Muscle Car Review I think about 10 years ago on the Sears give away car. I beleive it was somewhere in the Carolinas at the time. It was a pacesetter originally but now (then) was sporting the Pace Car decal set. I'll see if I can dig the article out tonight after work.

[jg95z28]

Speaking of 67 Pace Cars....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2455837813

[FESTIVAL78]

A seemingly legit HOT ROD Pacecar..Oh boy..You know at the rate these pop up ( At least two new ones per year)I wonder how many there really are? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[matt murphy]

I have VIN's for almost 100 '67 Pace Cars from the Norwood Ohio plant, built between 03C and 04D. About 1/3 being 0-1 festival cars. I also have 34 Van Nuys Pace cars and all of them being C-1 cars. Add the 20 Canadian cars and I would guess that some 300 Pace cars were built in 1967.

[MrMotion]

I have a black and white picture about 8 1/2 x 11 inches in size of ten 67 Camaro Pace cars on the track at Mosport in Toronto for the Centennial Grand Prix . I took this picture myself. I will see if any markings are visible. It rained most of the day.
Tony

[Zedder]

Ok, all this Pace Car talk has me wanting to get my first Camaro back http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif So, what is a one owner '67 Canadian BB (L35) Pace Car worth - "driver" quality now with all numbers, 100,000 miles and had a good deal of previous rust that needs to be properly repaired - floor/trunk? The car needs to be totally restored but it is all there. Also, what is the going rate for Pace Cars these days? Thanks,

[jg95z28]

See that's the dilema I'm in. I want a car I am not afraid to drive on weekends and sunny days. I really only have room for one classic car in my garage. My dream Camaro is in fact the 67 Pace Car, but I also want a 67 Z/28. Heck I'd even settle for an L35 or L78 4spd convertible SS... as long as it has the RS trim package. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif But if I would ever buy a pace car or Z/28, I would probably want a "driver" rather than a restored show car, correct?

Oh well... I can keep dreaming for now I guess. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Mark_C]

Pace cars are as bad if not worse than Z28's. Driver quality 69 Small blocks are going for mid to upper 20's. Big blocks are in the mid 30's. Drivers in my book are better than 5 footers, nice paint and mechanicals, everything works, no visible rust, etc. Really nice versions or either with matching number drive trains can add another 7500 to 10K to those prices. Add more for odd options like Fiberoptics, 8 track, gauges etc.

I would give mine a value in the upper 20's (non matching number motor and trans) (28K probably) as an example. I've seen a few Z11's that look like they came from the bottom of the Atlantic ocean with no drivetrains going for 10K plus on Ebay in the last month.

67's don't come up anywhere as often as the 69's and there are a whole lot less of them so I would assume a driver small block is in the 30K range, big block in the 40K range and nicely restored matching numbers are another 10K. The skys the limit for documented Festival and the real pace cars in either year.

[Zedder]

Thanks Mark - I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'll have to give that fellow a call later today and see what it would take to buy the car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[txrsss]

Mark,

What happened did you hit the lottery????

[Kim_Howie]

After watching the Bar_Jac auction the MOD Pace car on E-Bay would have to bring at least 200,000??

[Zedder]

No, I wish! Actually, I have really been out of cars for the past 3.5 years doing my MBA - but now that I am finished...watch out! I have enough money in my "car fund" for 2 cars - so I am going to buy the first two that I like. I made a "short list" of cars that I hope to own some day and am looking for any of these cars - '67 Z-28, '70 LS6 Chevelle, '67 BB Corvette, '70 LT-1 Corvette...and maybe a '67 Pace Car now http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif It looks like my '67 Z deal isn't dead, so that car may taken off the list in a day or two http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif The Pace Car I know of could have been bought for about $20K 5 years ago, but I thought it was too much at the time. I'm quite sure he still owns it, but will find out today for sure.

[txrsss]

Mark,

Good luck!!! What colors and options does the Z have?

Mike

[Zedder]

Mike,

Can't tell you that until the deal is done since people reading have attempted to scoop me before, but it is very well optioned and has the best documentation that I have seen yet. I'll post a pic once we finalize the deal.

[txrsss]

Mark,

Best of luck! 2 questions.

Did you sell the L78?

What has happened to Rich McCabe? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Mike

[Zedder]

Thanks Mike.

The Z deal is done, we're just trying to figure out how to structure payment etc. It's kind of a convoluted deal to be sure.

Yes, the L78 sold in about 10 hours! Troy did the interior and I put red lines on the car. It turned out really nice. The new owner has a bunch of Camaros including 3 '67 Z-28's!

I haven't heard from Rich in a long time. I heard he started up a new business and is tied up with that. I don't think he gets too involved with the Internet and Camaros any longer. Hopefully, he'll be back again in the future - he's a nice guy.

Take care,

Mark

[FESTIVAL78]

Mr Motion...PLEASE post the pix of the 67 Pacecars that you have!!!!!!!!!Thanks. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[resto4u]

Mark, does that mean your L-78 went to colorado? Roger

[Zedder]

No, Washington.

[Denis]

Who has 3 67 Z's in Washington? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Zedder]

Ask your buddy Butch...the fellow tried joining your group.

[resto4u]

good question denis! I was going to ask you about your new purchase. Our group must be too good for them? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Roger

[Zedder]

Roger...read my post again...he tried to join "your" group (which I started btw)...but he's not too computer literate and had trouble sending in his trim tag pics and was denied access (from what I was told). This is not the first time that something like this has happened - as Denis can attest to with someone who just joined via his site. I forwarded that fellow's info weeks before he asked to join the group a second time. So, maybe it's not those seeking to join that think they are "too good". In fact, the fellow from WA is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. He would be a real asset to "your" group.

[Zedder]

Getting back to Pace Cars...I was speaking with an original owner of one of the Canadian BB Pace Cars and he told me that he did not buy the car until June of 1968. I said, "You must mean 1967". He corrected me and told me the story of how the car sat in the dealer's showroom for nearly a year and no one wanted it because it was white. So, they painted it Blue in the Spring to match the interior and he finally bought it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[jg95z28]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting back to Pace Cars...I was speaking with an original owner of one of the Canadian BB Pace Cars and he told me that he did not buy the car until June of 1968. I said, "You must mean 1967". He corrected me and told me the story of how the car sat in the dealer's showroom for nearly a year and no one wanted it because it was white. So, they painted it Blue in the Spring to match the interior and he finally bought it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Hey... the guy in the auction for the modifed BB 67 Pace car http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2455837813 says in the description that his was painted blue when he bought it.

I wonder if its the same car?

[FESTIVAL78]

jg95z28...The HotRod Pacer on Ebay fits very well in with the vins of the April Norwood run..It's new to me and not on any lists that I've got...

[jg95z28]

I'm wondering if someone will buy it and try to return it to original. Its got to be worth more as an original car than as a hot rod... wouldn't it? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[txrsss]

[ QUOTE ]
jg95z28...The HotRod Pacer on Ebay fits very well in with the vins of the April Norwood run..It's new to me and not on any lists that I've got...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actual, it is a Van Nuys car and fits in with those on the registry. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Zedder]

No Jeff, it is a different car. The one I know of is Canadian.

[FESTIVAL78]

Yea, yea, that's it. Van Nuys.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[txrsss]

Just couldn't pass up a chance to kick after you got the NOS Firestone! LOL!!!

Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MrMotion]

AS soon as I can scan it in. My scanner does not work with Win XP so I have to use a computer that I have with 98.

[FESTIVAL78]

That would be great..I'll appreciate it ..so won't that txindypacecar punk!

[Charley Lillard]

Ron Tribble had three but I thought he sold one for big bucks.

[txrsss]

Ouch!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Zedder]

Ron T had 2 '67 Z's - one black and one green. A fellow who just missed out on my red/black Z asked me who I knew that had either red or black Z's. I told him about those that I knew of and he hunted Ron down and bought the black car. It is my understanding that Ron then bought another '67 Z Trans Am car. The fellow that bought my L78 is the only person that I know of that has owned 3 '67 Z's at one time.

[txrsss]

"I can vouch for what Mark is saying...since I am Canadian and my first Camaro at 17 was a Canadian Pace Car - and it was an RS - I've got the GM paperwork on the car to boot."

Mark,

What does your GM of Canada paperwork on this car say after paint?

Example:

"PAINT: 1001HA - SPECIAL WHITE PAINT"

Mark--Could you scan your GM of Canada paperwork and send it to me privately??? I'll show you mine if you show me your's?!?

Matt and Tom--This could be your answer right here as far as the clear coat. Has anyone else noticed this? The Body Broadcast Copy printed in Incremona's old book on page 25 is from a Festival car and has ".." in the BODY COLOR space and 1001AA at the bottom. I have the 1967 Service News and they show a '67 truck color White RPO521 as DuPont code 817-L. Ermine White is Dupont code 4024-L. Maybe this is a brighter white??? The special order paint O-O orange cars that I have seen are what I believe to be the orange from the truck line, RPO516...DuPont code 31-L. Just a thought! May be worth looking into???!!!???

Tom--The Ermine White lacquer sample left here yesterday.

Mike

[Zedder]

No problem Mike, I may have to fax or mail it though as my scanner is packed away and I really don't have anywhere to hook it up. It may take me a few weeks to get down to those files as they are packed away also. I think I have all of the shippers for the Canadian cars also from a friend of mine up here along with a letter from the International Camaro Club stating the VINS (from what I recall).

[txrsss]

Mark,

Thanks! Then you should have the info on N236970, but either way I will go ahead and scan it and send it to you privately. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[txrsss]

Hate to ask, but does anyone know if the Sears give away car was an RS?

Mike

[JoeC]

The code "1001HA" is interesting because this code is on the line of the build sheet with the other COPO codes on 427 COPO Chevelles with special paint. I have also seen the 1001 number with different ECLs on the end.

[txrsss]

Yep, seen 1001AA also. What year Chevelle did you see this on? And what was the original paint color?

Mike

[JoeC]

69 COPO/Yenko 427 Chevelles monaco orange and daytona yellow
Also the 68 Yenko Camaro raffle car had the 1001 number on it's paper work. I forget the ECL. I remember thinking the number was for paint but they decoded it as something else. The docs were shown in a magazine article.

[txrsss]

Which magazine and do you have it?

Mike

[FESTIVAL78]

Things sound like they're starting to come together..Great work TEX....Let's figure all this out BEFORE I paint my car. Charley..surprised you were not piping up on this topic until I saw your BJ postings..I must admit it's a little disheartening to here of such scams out there.. Mike..Scott my paint buddie is looking forward to shooting laquer again in good ol' Liberal Massachusetts!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gifIt's not just beer..it's an adventure!

[Zedder]

Matt: I was rereading your post on the fleet codes and you are partially correct - the small block Canadian cars had no code but the BB ones had 095D after the dash...and yes, I have a picture of one of the tags, but it is not in digital format so I can't post it yet.

It's also interesting that the GM docs show the description of the car as "Festival Pace Car" and the paint is "1001AA - Special Paint". Why wouldn't these be "Replicas" rather than "Festival" cars?

[Zedder]

Also forgot to mention there were 10 small block Canadian Pace Cars and 11 BB cars - all SB were identically equipped and all BB cars were identically equipped.

[matt murphy]

In '67 and '69 the track cars were divided into two groups . . . 1) "Festival" cars that were for the Festival parade the days before the race . . . and 2) the 500 committee cars that were given to the 500 Committee members throughout the state of Indiana. Today they are still divided up into that, but all the pace cars are referred to replicas and only the original 2 or 3 actual Pace Cars are called and have the word Pace Car on them. This change started in 1995 with the Corvette Pace Cars . . . I am not sure if they have changed the lettering on the side of the replicas to say "Pace Car" or not . . . Any help here . . .

[FESTIVAL78]

I'm assuming from the film footage I have of the parade that the "Festival" cars got the gold madallion on the rear quarter panel (8 or 10 inch sticker)and the others "commitee"did not..The GM Canada paperwork is very interesting..Why were the cars sent to "GM show car account" Is that why they were built? Maybe for this racetrack that there is a picture of? If so were they all sold as used? Still remaining to be seen is the exact meaning of "Special paint" Blue stripe? Clear coat? or special instruction on a broader scale? The Gm paperwork Says right on it 'RS'..Why has it been so long for this to become common knowledge?Maybe checking your sources when you write a book (or magazine article)doesn't include the car world http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
Also forgot to mention there were 10 small block Canadian Pace Cars and 11 BB cars - all SB were identically equipped and all BB cars were identically equipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. 12 BB cars. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Zedder]

Kurt: Was the 12th car shipped with the same group? If so, I'll recheck my shippers to see which one I missed???

[Mark_C]

Not unless A. J. Foyt was living in Canada at the time. And that 12th car is not the same as the others, as it was a BB with A/C.

The Canadian BB's also had the tail panels blacked out that the US ones didn't.

[Mark_C]

No the Sears give away wasn't an SS or RS. It was a C1 coded convertible, with an "B" standard blue interior car with a 327/210HP engine and a 2 spd column shift powerglide transmission. VIN is 124677N209420, body number is NOR108681 and it was built sometime in early April of 67. It was delivered on 6/5/67. The "Official Pace Car" decals were on it when it was delivered and the promo pictures were taken but were removed before the first owner took it home.

Basically it was a pacesetter car that had a set of decals installed for a short period of time.

[Zedder]

Thanks Mark...I looked at those shippers pretty closely and thought I had caught them all. That's interesting about the black tailpan. I'll check the local car to see if there are any remnants of the black paint showing under the Blue.

MrMotion: Does your pic of the Mosport gathering show the black tailpans?

[Kurt S]

Sorry Mark C, it went to Canada. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Yes, it was shipped later than the rest of the group.

[Mark_C]

If the 12th car was A.J. Foyts why did it go to Canada, or is there another car besides AJ's, making his the 13th car in the group?

[MrMotion]

Mark, the picture I have shows the cars in line on the track coming towards me so there is no way you can tell if they have blacked out tailpans or bigblocks for that matter. There is a guy named Mike in Hamilton that has an original 67 Z28 that was profiled in the Toronto Star a number of years back. I went to see him a few years ago and he was restoring a BB Pacecar out of Vancouver. I wonder if GM of Canada has any photos of the 1967 Centennial Preliminary Events showing there 67 Camaro Pacecars?
Tony

[txrsss]

Tony,

I'd still like to see the picture, could you post it please?

Mike

[Zedder]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. I actually grew up in Hamilton and I think I remember the cars you are talking about. The Z was White and came out of Niagara falls originally. It went to a dealer in Florida and then I lost track of it. I think the BB went south also. I didn't personally see the car, but the owner sent me pics and we talked on the phone. I recall that he wanted big dollars for them when he advertised them. Thanks again for the info and if you ever get that pic scanned, I'd love to see it.

[JoeC]

Found the article on the 68 Yenko with special paint. It has no paint code on trim tag just has two dashes in paint code field. They claim the car has a body broadcast sheet with “COPO 9737 1001 HA” on it . The article states that the original owner said the car came with no stripe and Yenko added a 67 style nose stripe to the car. They decoded the special COPO numbers to mean the car came with a 427 from factory. This info was later turned into a “only one on the planet” 1968 427 COPO Yenko Camaro raffle car story. I think the 1001HA is just a COPO code for special paint which in this case was stripe delete or maybe Chevy put the 67 stripe on for Yenko.

[matt murphy]

I have also seen a cowl tag on a '68 Z28 that had the -,- or two dashes. It was a Dark Green like the British Racing Green color I think . . .

[mnyenko]

I think the blue color used on the 68 Yenko camaros was dropped some time in 68 model year.It was probably current at the time the order was placed.By the time the cars went into production, it was a drop.So -- was used on the blue cars only.Earl

[Mark_C]

In case anyone is looking for one. Heres another 67 small block Pace car on Ebay.
67 Pace Car on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=24577589 59)
1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
7 = 1967 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
208732 = vehicle serial number sequence

Decode for body number: 108377

04B = Built the Second week of April.
67-12667 = Custom Interior Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
732 = Custom Bright Blue Bucket Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats.
C-1 = Lower Color is Ermine White and the Convertible Top Color is White.
R = Interior paint is Bright Blue
Options:
1W = (A02) Tinted W/S only
1D = (C06) Power top convertible
2L = (M20) 4-speed floor shifter
2G = (D55) Console front compartment
2S = (U73) Antenna Manual right rear
3L = (Z22) Rally Sport Package
4P = (L48) SS 350
- = Special Order/Fleet Code

Buy it now for 38,900. Bet it doesn't last the weekend. It's a really nice looking restoration. Bit to much for my pocketbook. It's not mine and don't know the seller. All disclaimers apply.

[FESTIVAL78]

The car didn't come close to reserve..that makes me wish I bought it but also makes wonder where the market is for these cars

[70 copo]

Festival,

I think the market is firm if the engine is original, It is a real 0-1 car, and all of the little stuff works.

4 speed was a plus also. Almost all of the Norwood cars built during that period of (04B) production were 4 speeds.

This would have been a good car for someone to drive.

I think the money was right for this car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

Phil

[jg95z28]

There were questions regarding the trim tag over on CAMAROS.NET

Still, I hope to own one someday. I just don't have the money, space or time right now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[70 copo]

95 Z

I did not go to camaros.net, however I suspect that people are asking about the missing fleet code at the bottom of the trim tag. For some reason, the majority of the Norwood C-1 04B pace car replica's are not stamped with one of the accepted pace car fleet codes.

If you get a chance please post a link so I can have a look. Thanks-

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[FESTIVAL78]

Where's the thread on camaros? Didn't see it in Tag Team? I'd love to have a pacecar driver..Mines gonna be a big fat piece of jewelry taking up all my garage space!

[MotownMadman]

The trim tag is the one I posted in the Supercar/Musclecar discussion on this site.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

Motown,

That is a real good look on that thread for sure, also it looks like it was sandblasted, which accounts for the current condition. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Also No Norwood Pace car fleet codes present. Fleet codes for these cars were stamped like this: (Example) 4P - 050A (or) 061A.(or) 062A, (or) 070A.

Phil

[FESTIVAL78]

My Norwood 04A Pacer doesn't have a fleet code..A lot don't and I don't know why? 0-1 car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[70 copo]

Correct...

I show assembly sequence for a 4A built Norwood car with the last three digits ending #450 as an 0-1 without fleet code.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[FESTIVAL78]

Phil..I've spent little time thinking about the fleet codes (probably because mine doesn't have one) Can you fill me in on how you know this and what research has been done? Is it tied in with built sheets, body broadcast stuff etc?

[txrsss]

Phil,

Your Festival car is 03C, right?

Mike

[txrsss]

Phil,

Do you ever make the trek to CA to see the "Holy Grail"?

Mike

[txrsss]

Hey, Matt any insight here??? You and Jim have looked at this forever. Heck, even Charley's car and the back up don't have the fleet code!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I've a got Body Broadcast on an O-1 that has 061A and a C-1 replica that has 061A on a Shipper Copy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Mike

[jg95z28]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil,

Do you ever make the trek to CA to see the "Holy Grail"?

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]Holy Grail? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[txrsss]

#92

Mike

[70 copo]

Festival,

The fleet codes were important years ago as some people were trying establish pace car ID by "fleet code" as one of the primary method (s) of early identification. This was prior to the release of the real method(s) of Identification which included the now famous stripe delete - (dash) (which sometimes) was followed by a fleet code.

Owners who suspected they had a pace car were encouraged by the now defunct USCC and others keeping registry to make contact and register the specific car's information. Later as the respective total number of 0-1 and C-1 cars became known, the risk of being able to pull off a Pace Car fake was greatly reduced. The approximate build dates, sequences, and vin # then became known which protects the identity of real cars that are out there. As it is today the known use of the fleet code is much more consistant on the C-1 LOS cars as L-181A. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[txrsss]

Gee Phil...looks like the chin strapped keyboard eater got to you?!?

Mike

[70 copo]

Txindy

Key board Eater??? Anyway I see you also have the registry. Good. As for the Dan Young car, I have looked at this car at shows for over 20 years now, most recently at last fall's Chevy Vettefest.

Charlie has the car that everyone wants and sets an example for his peers to follow. The only problem is that Charlie's peers are major players which include Supercars Sixtiesmuscle and others. For the common guys like us we are lucky to see Charlie and his super pace car and let him know:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[txrsss]

Mr. Borris,

You seem to forget that we met at Carlisle 2002. But, that is not important. I am not important. Me...I am a small fish in a small pond. It just seems funny to me that certain people are suddenly avoiding my posts. All I am trying to do is seek the truth on these cars, just like you! Charley...from the dealings that I have had with him "seems" to be a great guy...truthfully I don't know him. He helped me identify the back up car to #92.

My problem is no one here other than SS. He knows who he is.

Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

Txindy,

Hell, I speak to lots of folks at car shows all over the place. It would really shock me if I had not spoken to you at some show.

What is the problem with posts?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[txrsss]

Phil,

Email me privately...we'll talk.

Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JChlupsa]

Only question I have on the car pictured above is who put the rear spoiler on the car?? Wasnt a 67 option.

[70 copo]

Ok Jeff,

You are officially one of Charlie's peers!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/JeffSucksToo.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[FESTIVAL78]

70 COPO..Thanks. I understand but in terms of a basic explanation of the fleet codes in general..Was it a code for when GM would built multiple same optioned cars/trucks? and if so then why would my car not have one being such an " in the thick of it" o4A festival car? And why would so many LA non pacecar cars have these codes at all? Did dealers out that way save money by ordering multiples of the exact same car for themselves? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Kurt S]

Thomas,
You need to look at that little box on the forms closer.
It says F&SO. Fleet and Special Order.

[Pantera]

Starbird auto show at Tulsa had a 67 there.

I took a pic of the paperwork they were displaying
One shot is all I have and i hope it can be read

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
The only problem is that Charlie's peers are major players which include Supercars Sixtiesmuscle and others.

[/ QUOTE ]Charley's peers are in old folks homes. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Stuart Adams]

Good one Bob....

[FESTIVAL78]

Kurt..Fleet or Special Order..either or, the question I was trying to pose was why my car doesn't have one at all? As an O-1 tag car I would have thought that a Fleet/Special Order code would be assumed? Am I making sense with this? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[matt murphy]

Guys,

Out of 130 '67 Pace Cars on my list and printed in a spreadsheet, I have found NO similarities to the cars with the fleet codes (050A, 060A, 061A and 070A). These codes are on and not on 0-1 cars as well as C-1 cars, big block and small block cars, 4 speeds and automatic cars. My only guess is that if things were computer generated back then like they are today, then all of those cars would have had one of those codes.

Maybe Jim Mattison would remember what those codes meant . . .