1970 L78 nova

[GTO_DON]

I JUST BOUGHT A 70 NOVA SS L78 CAR ,TURBO 400,410 GEARS. LOW MILEAGE CAR THATS BEEN OFF THE ROAD SINCE 1979. ORIGINAL PAINT,COMPLETE NUMBERS MATCHING WITH ALL THE ORIGINAL PAPERWORK! SOLD NEW AT REEDMAN. DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW MANY WERE BUILT? DONT KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT NOVA'S,BUT I THINK ITS A GREAT FIND!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Real common, lots made, kinda boring, wanna sell it ?

[rpoz11]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gifStraight to the pointe, eh Charlie?!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

Congrats on your find! There were 3765 RPO-L78 Novas built for the 1970 model year. This is last year for the big block Nova. I don't have a breakdown bwtween 4spd. and auto but it's fair to say there were certainly many more 4spd cars produced. If you check your paperwork you will probably find the car came with a 3:55 Posi rear, your current gears were not available in that car from the factory. I have a matching # 70 L78 auto car myself. Black with black bench seat and no frills. These cars are a hoot to drive and really run well with that h.d. turbo 400. I sent you a PM with some more info. Good luck.

Tom Williams

[GTO_DON]

Tom, i mean no disrespect,but this car absolutly came with the 410 gears! it says it on the factory order form. the guy walked in to reedman with his best friend,who i bought the car from.[the original owner is deceased] and ordered this car with a bench seat![to sit next to his girlfriend] am radio,ps,deluxe int,rear defroster,door edge guards and some more options! i'll share the paperwork with you in the future. i have to leave for the eagles game now,talk to you later...don http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[jus4funn68]

Hey no disrespect but,as for the Eagles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif Go Panthers!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif!!!!!!

[Salvatore]

AH come on!!! Panthers can't play in the cold. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[Mr70]

Apparently,neither can the Colts.

[WILMASBOYL78]

I really don't care who wins the game. Just glad to see another L78 car come out of hiding. TW

GO TEAM NOVA!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey no disrespect but,as for the Eagles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif Go Panthers!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to second that notion! Its not often that the Panthers get to the playoffs. They just might prevail!!

Us Southern boys usually cheer for college basketball. Teams like UNC (Tarheals), Duke (Blue Devils), UNCS (Wolfpack), and Wake Forest (Demon Decons) predominate in the 'sweet 16' leading up to the final four.

In any case, the best team will win on this given day. Next week, any other team could win. It just depends on whos' pumped-up for the contest.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Why couldn't a Nova come with a 4.10 gear in '70? There is a block on the dealer's order form for the various options, including G80 for the posi rear. I have seen where the dealer simply writes "4.10" next to the option box, and the car came with a 4.10!

[MotownMadman]

Marlin,
I know you dont realize this from your 70 deuce, but these Nova's when equipped with the "real big block" power instead of the trainer engines could do some serious body twisting with the right combination of driver and tire. Add a 4.10 gear set or more and your local bodyman will be doing a jig atop his Bondo can! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I see you have a Big Block car, congrats on your passage into Manhood! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Heck, it's better then running 50 miles through the desert to be named Big Eagle instead of ChickenHawk! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And heaven forbid a set of 4.10 gears hooking up behind a stout Big Block if any of the body panels were stamped overseas! As Chubby Checker said so well; "Come on Baby,,,lets do the Twist..." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now you know I'm just kiddin with ya there M, we just aint had no fun in awhile! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif By the way, I did try to catch you on the phone, just read your message last night, I will try to call this evening. Oh hey, I noticed on one of the other sites you were asking the firing order to your car, it's 18432576. Have a nice day M, talk to ya later! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Your Pal,
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Matt;
You are hardly funny.

BTW, I don't define my manhood with an engine. But since you brought it up, the hp rating of my LT1 Nova is obviously 370 due to the 'vette marketing thing, and has a curb weight of approx. 3100lbs. My big block L78 Nova is 375hp, and has a curb weight of approx. 3500-3600lbs. Now, your little manhood aside, do I need to explain the power to weight ratio thing to you?

The torque of the engine mated to a 4.10 gear will twist a subframe car, you get an 'A'. Does that mean that GM didn't produce it?

Oh yea, the firing order of Deuce is cast into the intake manifold smartie! Don't be making up posts for me when you should be pulling that Yenko Camaro out of the guy's back yard with all your biker buddies http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MotownMadman]

Marlin, the entire post was a attempt at lightning up the day around here, you didnt need any numbers and stats to throw back at me (in record time by the way),, and do you really think I believed you didnt know a Chevrolet firing order? That is funny! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am not sitting on the edge of my chair grinding my teeth anymore, I learned how to be calm and deal with the oddities of life with a grin and a shrug, cant push my buttons anymore like in days gone by, Charley has been schooling me in babysitting, which is the true test of patience and tolerence. So relax a bit, pop a couple of those pimples that are causing undue pressure in your head, and grab your blankie....it's nap time......
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Your usual stuff Matt; so many words, so little said - you really should have been a politician. Let's just keep it real, and about the cars, ok pops http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Where can I get one of these for Matt? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[MotownMadman]

Well thanks Marlin, I would find my own sign a compliment! Glad to see I didnt get bombarded again with numbers and stats, as you get older and youngsters are calling you Pops you will find no need to recite all the numbers and stats, it will come natural to you like riding your bike when dad took the training wheels off....But, I will give you a call later as I could use your opinion on some of the serious car stuff, although I do like to ruffle your feathers a bit, I also respect your opinion and knowledge.(That was like fingernails on a chaulkboard!) Talk to ya later, son...
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

ring ring ring ring ring ring ring ring ring

[MotownMadman]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Mr70]

GTODON
What color combo is your L78 Nova?
I am curious as to what the Suffix code on your 4:10 rearend is?
I know the 70 Deuce Could get a Special 4:10 posi,so would that be the same suffix code the 1970 RPO L78 Nova shared too?
In the 1970 Chevrolet parts books,they do not show any 4:10 Posi suffix code for the 1970 Nova,but they do for the 1969 Nova of a BV 4:10 posi code.Could that have been used in 1970 Nova too? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Rick

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The Yenko Deuce special rear code is CBW, not found in any books. Rick has a good point, get the code off the rear. An interesting sidenote is that a few Yenko Deuces have been found with gears other than 4.10's but with the 4.10 code stamped on the tube. I wouldn't bet my paycheck on the mishap, but I guess anything is possible!

[MotownMadman]

Marlin, Back to the car stuff, your numbers on power to weight are correct, but you failed to factor in torque in the equation, which is somewhat more with the big block. Any twisting taking place will do so in maximum torque range,(low end), vs maximun HP range, (mid to high end). The actual HP rating at low end launching from the lights is no where near the stated numbers. The big block having more torque will create a greater twist factor, which always occours at launch under max torque. I dont know if this theory has anything to do with chevrolets decision not to put the 4.10 in the BB Nova, there may be a multitude of reasons or none at all. Although this theory makes sense, that doesnt mean Chevy even considered it. The frame shop I worked in many years back had the most business pulling High Performance drag cars back straight from the Buick crowd, which happens to have the highest Torque ratings of all GM. Hmmmmmm........
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Matt;
The '68 and '69 Novas came with BB's and 4.10's, as did the Camaro's. Why would it suddenly become unfeasible for a '70 Nova?

[MotownMadman]

Marlin,
I can only take a guess, possibly the same problem Don had, pressure from the safety freaks in government and insurance companies, by removing the 4.10 option it would seem logical that would tone down the Big Block a bit. This is just a guess, as a matter of fact I am not sure they didnt offer the 4.10, I am only speculating based on the previous post that indicated they didnt. I do know however that all the automakers were under extreme pressure from uncle Sam and the corporate insurance muscle, it became a real problem for the big three to please the public and the factions screaming for sanity. Fuel prices were also rising, it was bad advertisment for a off the lot car to get 8-10 MPG which was the case with the extremely low geared muscle, by a simple change to a 3.73 mileage increased to a claimable 12-14 MPG which was a bit easier for John Q to swallow with the rising fuel costs while the cost of living increases remained stale. Fuel prices were long overdue to go up, a gallon of gas could be had in the fifties for 15-16 cents, in 68-69 the gas wars saw it drop to 16-17 cents. It seemed that the entire Market Basket had increased over the years while gas remained in about the same range. The liberal free sixties were on the way to history to make way for a more responsible conservative seventies, suddenly those crazy kids and their dangerous gas guzzlers were becoming a target for every ambitious politician and the big corporate lobby groups. Consider the changes in American Muscle between 69 and 74, just five years, it becomes easier to understand why changes were taking place with the hi performance options available to the consumer.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

yada, yada, yada, ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz..
Wait, the '70's were conservative? Huh? Oh, you were self medicating again. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

[MotownMadman]

Marlin,
The seventies may have seemed open and wild to someone who was not even alive in the sixties, I can assure you the seventies didnt hold a candle to the sixties, The last "REAL" party I was at was Woodstock, I am sure you thought your Bannana seat Stingray bicycle was liberal and wild, but the decade prior to that would have swallowed many of the seventies Disco Ducks alive. You still wear polyester Marlin? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Enough already.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Don,between football and torque this topic really took a turn. I hope your car is truly a factory installed 4:10 with some unique axle code. Finding a special car is always great. Enjoy! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Tom

[GTO_DON]

Marlin, its just as you said,on the order form,he ordered g80 positraction,next to it he wrote '410'gears. I have not been under the car yet,but when i do i'll be sure to get the code for you. The nova is code 58 dark gold met with gold interior,not one of my favorite colors to be honest, the car also has rally wheels on it and it has that option listed on the window sticker! I thought all ss's had the same wheels like a 70 ss chevelle had but the guys wife says those are the wheels the car had when it was new,i have to check the codes to see if she's correct. the guy i bought it from said the car was the fastest car in their town in the early 70's.[he said its a bear!!] The trans was just rebuilt and the guy at the shop said he hasnt seen one of those trannys in a long time,said it has a torque converter out of a jaguar,I knew it had a different clutch pack,but never heard that!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif The rims are 14x7 with get this, http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gifJ-60-14 MCREARY'S ON THE BACK!! Whens the last time you saw a pair of those? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[PxTx]

[ QUOTE ]
Marlin,
...the firing order to your car, it's 18432576. Have a nice day M, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey "Pops", ever try using a 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 firing order on the ol' Chevy V8s? I find my SS really prefers it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Bill Pritchard]

A good friend of mine bought a brand new Forest green 70 Nova L78, Turbo 400, 4.10 posi. Came that way from the factory. Undesirably slow factory stock, but the usual 'Day 2' mods woke it up, ran a best of 12.95. Wrapped it around a telephone pole around 72 or 73 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Luckily he was OK.

[MotownMadman]

Well, it's about time! I wanted Marlin to catch that but he was so aggravated it blew right by him as well as everyboby else! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good job pxtx, you win the "attention to detail award" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I didnt notice it until after I had posted it, worked out so perfect I didnt have the heart to edit it, wish I could take the credit for thinking it up on purpose but alas, it was a typo. Still cant believe everyone has been reading the post for hours and Finally some one caught the goof. Right on! Must have been fallout from all the recreation during the late sixties that screwed up my brain/hand co-ordination, or, could be I just dont type for $hit! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks,
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Schonyenko2]

I've had both. A 70 L78 nova, and a deuce. The deuce would have kicked that L78s a$$ all over the street.
The problem with frame twisting is'nt the 4.10 gears with stock tires, and rims. Its when you put on the serious big meats of the day back then and started sidestepping the clutch at 6k. That would tweak the qtrs. Most people were sharp enough to put on frame connectors. Schonye

[GTO_DON]

Something must have been wrong with your L78 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gifIf they both have the same gears,I'll take a solid lifter big block over a solid lifter small block anyday!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Kim_Howie]

What the L78 had six people in it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Salvatore]

Schonye, You know as well as I do that we love the little motors. Horsepower per cubic inch I think the small blocks got the big blocks beat but...... If my 1969 LT1 nova beat a comparable big block nova or camaro back in the day was because they were not set up correctly. I NEVER beat a good running rat motor car with basically the same set up as my 350 car had unless of driver error. My nova with the LT1 slicks, bars, headers, Hurst competition plus etc. (I drove the car to the track) Motor was balanced and clearanced but basically stock with the factory LT1 cam ran a best of 12.08 114.62. That was real good in those days. The big block guys with basically the same set up ALWAYS ran 11.70's. Also the big block camaros for the most part beat all the new LS6 chevelles, with the same set up. I was there, there was no doubt. I spent many a night down Front st. and Delaware ave. in Philly in those days. That is where the little motors would sometimes beat a big block, because of traction. Like I said it really depends on who owned them and drve them. An 85% efficient running small block could beat a 60% efficient running big block. And about the twisting, the tires in those days wern't good enough to twist those frames and sheetmetal as much as some people think. Starting in the early 70's did it become necessary to tie the frames. I don't even think Jenkins 1st. Pro Stock car had the frame tied at that point. P.S. Some people have to stop reading the books and start believing the guys that were there. You could basically get any combo that you wanted if the salesperson would order it for you.I don't care what the options list said or build sheets. Your salesperson was very important in those days. Now, You really can't order much. GM didn't stop making 4:10's in 1970 did they? If Don's car has a 4:10 in it, how can anyone dispute it. Just because the options list didn't state it? Come on! In 1970 it was not rocket science. How many 1959 ElCaminos did people ever see with fuel injection? Well they were available and I saw one. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Motown, now we're supposed to proof your rants for you? You assume that everybody even reads your baseless epics!

Sam, I agree with both you and Schoneye, what do they say; 'On any given raceday'.

Don,
Good to hear more about your car, I for one, love that color combo - the more unique the better!

[MotownMadman]

Marlin,
I suppose your right and everybody doesnt read all.....but you did. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

How about some more football in this poor guy's thread!

It will be cool to find out what the code is on this rear. I have seen the 4.10 written in on other order forms as well. Anyone have 4.56 written in? I'd like to see what this guy's order form has - surely one of the baddest lookin cars out there!

[Norm reynolds]

Hey Motown ever see what happens when you take a stock Vega and put in a big block
Seen this many years ago down on front street in Philly this knuckle head http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif made one run and ended up on a flat bed Twisted the hell out of it. It was funny http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif to see this car after it made its one pass rocket run

[Belair62]

Marlin is that your Nova in the attachment?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

No, I wish! It was for sale awhile back, and I downloaded the pics - if I would have bought one back then, that's what it would have looked like.

My '69 SS L78 Nova is Rallye Green, 4sp-M20, BT-3.55 posi, tinted glass, drip rail - door frame - body side mouldings, deluxe interior, buckets, non-guage console, tinted glass, & steel wheels with dogcaps. Quite the opposite compared to my Yenko sitting in the garage!

[Belair62]

Love Rallye on a Nova...hell on a Camaro too...is the one in your attachment the one that was for sale in Illinois ? I think that one is at Legendary now...

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't remember where it was for sale, I think it was in OH. That car is from Ammon R. Smith Motor Co here in York, PA. Nice car with full paperwork.

[MotownMadman]

Schonye,
For the most part the L78 will beat the small block.....however....that is not always the case with the right, or some would say wrong person behind the wheel of the small block. If the small block has a 4.56, 4.88, or 5.13 gear and the owner/driver does not care about spending money on a regular basis the small block can be sent into the RPM stratosphere(providing it has solids), and get the big block. With the right hook up at launch the small block will jump far enough ahead that the rest of the quarter is all about catch up for the L78. Either the mouse will stand the pressure at the end ot the quarter or it wont. I have sent several balanced/blueprinted DZ motors through the traps at 9100, a sound that will stay with you for life. But, no small block should ever be discounted just because the neighbor has a noseheavy car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

P.S. Garage? Marlin, I thought your Deuce was sitting in a field?

[WILMASBOYL78]

This thread is like the Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going and going.

Tom

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Your point?

[PxTx]

Let me guess Mo, 9100 Rs with a mechanical fuel pump right.

If the sound don't stay with you the shrapnel will http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[MotownMadman]

pxtx,
It would be interesting to see if a stock pump would make it that far...doubtful, but I guess anything might be possible. No, these were both tricked out with dual electrics and a lot of other equipment, to beat the big block that is stock it takes some mods to the mouse motor. If both are stone stock the L78 has it.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[mc25t190]

Matt, i have the answer, 427!

[MotownMadman]

Kevin,
You were born with 427 on the brain. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifYou going to BJ? If so I will see ya there. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[PxTx]

I was only kidding with the fuel pump. Once a car starts running into the 13's it seems they will always benefit from a better fuel delivery system.

Yes I know people get into the 11s with an old mechnical pump, but by simply adding an electric pump they will still go faster. I dropped .5 by running an electric pump.

As for the BBC vs. SBC debate- my vote is for the BBC.

I've got my L79 tuned pretty well, but 13.2 is the best she goes. A big block may not be able to pull my 1.7 60's foot times, but they usually walk me on the top end.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Paul

[Schonyenko2]

Gentlemen, all I said was that my deuce was faster than my L78. Not a lie, a fact. The L78 had 3.55 gears, and M20. If that worth 21/2-3 carlenghts I stand corrected. Please don't tell the L78 chevelles, 440 GTXs, and Boss302s that were also not quite as fast, that they should have won. We don't want to hurt their feelings.
Sam I agree when you're running in class on the strip, the LT/1 can't compete "headsup".
Mo, you're dead on with the holeshot, and hanging on. Big cubes start catching you in 3rd.
Kim, not 6 people. Five and 3 cases of old Milwaukee, and a bottle of Jack.
The argument about BB vrs Sb will never end. It was the same back in the day, only worse.
I've personally always thought the 68-69 L78s with the 163 high rise intake ran better than the 70 low rise. Just seemed that they flowed better.
Don, great find on the Nova. They really rock with the turbo. Schonye

[MotownMadman]

Schonye,
The 163 intake vs the lower model in 70 is a no brainer. I dropped an LS6 in a 69 Camaro, made a few passes with it and was unhappy with what seemed like a momentary hesitation standing on the throttle. I swapped out the intake to a 163 using the same carb, made some passes and gained a minimum of 3 tenths of a second on each run, everything exactly the same except the intake. The additional height of the 163 is just enough to allow the fuel molecules to mix with the air causing a less liquid mixture for faster and more efficent combustion. I would think GM only dropped the intake in an effort to engineer the cold air induction system to work correctly with hood clearance. Whatever the reason, the proof is in the results, I definetly gained a quicker ET with no other changes except the intake.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Salvatore]

9,000 rpm's is a lot of revs. I would have to say the motor had the heads cut for big valve springs, a roller cam, and an MSD box. Most 02's shift around 7,500rpm's and go through the traps about 7,000. This is basically in stock eliminator trim. 9,000 rpm sounds like a comp. eliminator motor. JMO Sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[MotownMadman]

Sam,
You were right on all three accounts.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Norm reynolds]

There was a fellow that I used to watch in last 60s down at Acto take a small bock 327 and beat big blocks all day long His name was Bill Jenkins I would be down at the pits and watch Bill at work ( boy did I learn a lot) I don’t know why no body ever gave Bill his dues we hear a lot about Fred Gibbs Don Yenko and Dick Harrell but as long as I have been on this site no body ever mention Bill Jenkins I feel that he has been a major facture in the development on how much you could get out of a mouse motor I think he still lives about 40 min form me in Malvern Pa I know we were talking about stock but I believe Bill could still make a stock 327 and make it fly

[Schonyenko2]

Amen, and to Mr. Howie, Don't forget Dean Davis, and the Little Stinker chevy ll. Schonye

[Salvatore]

Nobody is a bigger Grumpy fan than me! I asked him to look at my 270hp carbs on my 1961 vette and he did. I even bought some vintage carb parts off him. He is a nice guy. Jenkins set the Pro Stock world on fire in 1972 with his small block Vega. He figured he could make enough power with his 331 in small block and much lighter weight to win and.....he did. Probably his name is not associated as much with this site because he didn't produce any cars. He didn't take any cars and prepare them with his name attached and so on. Today, I still believe if Chrysler wanted to put the SS/AA record in the 8.30's or 8.40's he could do it even before the hemi guys of today. He just would need to use Chryslers money. NOT his. He also had the Pro Stock truck class down pretty good till NHRA squashed it. You are right Schoneye and Kim those other guys really couldn't compete with Jenkins in those days. remember He did Dave Stricklers 1968 Z and also Don Yenko's Ed Hedrick SS camaro, and 2/3 of all the chevy stock and super stock cars in those days. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Norm reynolds]

Sam I am too a big Gumpy fan watch him once put in a universal joint in 4 s min flat using and old king pin and hammer and a 1&1/4 socket I master that trick it easy and faster that trying to use a press When it came to engines he was nothing more then a
Genius I was allways in the pits just to watch him do his magic http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif yes he was a nice guy I really miss the good old days http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

We used to talk to him down Cecil County in the old days. That is where he used to help Brooklyn Heavy out with the 68 camaro Heavy bought from him. You had to make things in those days you couldn't just go buy all the cookie cutter stuff like today. They really were the days! Sam

[WILMASBOYL78]

..and it's still going and going and.......

[PxTx]

Grumpy may not have sold cars, but he did offer street and race engine packages. I'm not sure how similar this would have been to a Motion Modified car. Anyone near Willow Grove PA hear of Billy Banks? He was a friend of my pop's who had a Jenkins prepared 327 in a 57 Chevy. This was in the mid-late 60's and it was all roller up. I think Billy later became involved with GTOs- something about a "Bobbin' Bear" race car seems to stick in my memory.

Paul T

[GTO_DON]

BOPPING BEAR http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

Don, Send me a PM or give a call when you can. Thanks, sam

[PxTx]

I thought I posted this last night, but it appears to have not made it on here. I appologize to those who feel the thread is too long from off topic posts.

The 57 with the Jenkins prepared 327 was running around NE Philadelphia in 1966 and was owned by Ted Swaggert. My pop then traded Ted his old 55 for the 57 in 1967. The Jenkins motor was painted flat black when all others in the area seemed to stay orange.

Grumpy said that he felt shiny oil leaks were easily spotted on the flat black color.

Billy Banks also had a 57 at this time which was fully rollered with dual quads. When I asked my pop who built it, he could not remember, but I did wake him out of bed last night to ask.

Jungle Jim Lieberman's old shop is about 3 miles from my house. I am mentioning all of these names because they were some of the better known Hot Rodders of thie time. Maybe Don or Sam or others may know of them.

The point to all of this is that a car with a Jenkins Prepared package or one done by Jungle Jim certainly could be comparable to a Motion built/tuned car (not a Baldwin/Motion though) regardless of where the car was purchased new.

Any other famous racers offer street performance packages?

Paul T

[Salvatore]

When was Jungle Jim in Glenside? West Chester I thought. sam

[JoeC]

I am also a Jenkins fan.
Bill Jenkins did build at least one street car. I ‘ve been trying to find out more info on it because I have the hood to it. The car was a 70 Camaro big block car that was set up to look like Grump’s 70 Pro Stock racecar. The racecar was split bumper front and the show car was a straight bumper. The hood is an all steel 1970 cowl induction prototype built by Chevy engineering in 1969 for the canselled 1970 LT2/ZL2 option. The car was used by Grumpy to meet contracted promotional commitments. He needed a second car because the racecar couldn’t be not make all the dates that were set for it.
Here is a pic of Grumpy with the 70 show car and his 68 and 69 car. The 70 show car was also used on at least one magazine cover. This show car was mostly a stock street car just made to look like a Pro Stocker. Engine may have been an old alum head 427 but Grumpy couldn’t remember when I asked him about it.

[Salvatore]

Jenkins couldn't remember where that car went? I am surprised. I really thought that that car went to Bruce Larson or Dave Strickler. I never have known it as a street car. Just a stock unit that was then converted to a Pro Stocker. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeC]

When I went to Jenkins shop to pick up the hood I was trying to talk to him about it but he was very busy with phone calls. They let me wonder around the shop while I waited so I didn't mind. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
He gave me documentation about the hood on Jenkins Competition letterhead paper but didn't tell me much about the car. I was wondering if it was a prototype car from Chevy with the hood on it but he said the hood came in a truck with some other parts Chevy sent him. He didn't think the car was ever raced but for some reason he took the hood off before the car left his shop. I never did get the whole story on the car. I was trying to find out if it was on loan from Chevy and went back to Chevy or if it was sold or what happened to it.

[PxTx]

Jungle Jim later moved to West Chester which is where he met his fate, but was originally from Willow Grove. My uncle used to pit for him on occasion in the 60's.

Abington, Willow Grove, Glenside, Roslyn, Hatboro are a string of towns which span only a few miles accross. Jim's first shop was on Old York Road in Abington. So it was about 3 miles from any of these places. I'll snap a picture next time I go by.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Don't want to get off the track of all this "car history' but, did we ever get any info on the axle code for this L78 car? I would like to see a post with some docs or info on the axle. Rare options are of interest to us all.

Still waiting......

[DaJudge]

GTO_Don is at Barrett Jackson until Sunday night. That is why he has nit been able to respond.

Mike

[Salvatore]

So The building is still there. I guess Ken Montgomery's shop is close also.(Jenkintown) Jungle went to the west coast also I think. Ken junior has a video for me with the camera in his dad's Hemi car. Apparently they took videos of the racing season from inside the car. Saw some videos at York last year. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

555
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Salvatore]

The Tripple Nickel! sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I knew you would pick that up!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PxTx]

Ken's Shop is about 3/4 mile from my house. I'll get some pics of that too.

[RichSchmidt]

I cant vouch for Jenkins ever building a street car,but as for his 70 prostocker,the actual prostock car was really a full bumper car and was raced that way in the first few events they ran it in.It later was fitted with an A&A specialties fiberglass front clip which was a split bumper piece.Other points of interest with that car was that it has pinstriping accenting the body lines when it had the stock nose on it,but most of the pinstriping was gone when the car was fitted with the glass nose,and some of the stickers were rearranged.The car also came from the factory with the full size rear spoiler,but I believe this was deleted when the glass nose was done.The 1970 issue of Hot Rod has the real car in it's earliest form on the cover and in a full spread.They claim it was an original SS396,but Jenkins claimed to have installed a "B" body 12 bolt with service package posi unit and 5.13 gears.I dont know why such a swap would have ben done if the car had a 12 bolt to begin with as all 70 SS cars had.
I buried my July 1970 issue of Hot Rod with the car in it,but I also seem to remember the first hood being a pro stock scoop on top of a cowl induction hood,but that might have been the earlier car I am drawing in my head.

Here is another piece of Jenkis trivia I was never able to verify.I know that Richie Zul owned Grump's 70 car in the mid 70's,and it was supposedly stolen,but I have also heard rumors that Zul had a 69 Camaro prostocker before the 70 car and it was also a previously Jenkins prepared car although maybe not a Grumpy's toy.It was also supposedly stolen and dumped under the New Jersey Turnpike overpass near Newark New Jersey.Is it possible that the stories are about the same car,or did Zul own 2 such cars that were stolen?The rest of that rumor went on to include that the Zul built engine was an iron block 427 that was one of the first Prostockers into the 9.40's,and that it either ended up in a very fast street race camaro of that time in Newark or under an equally fast big body 409 Impala of that era and area.Who knows anything about these stories?

[Salvatore]

Zul's 1969 camaro was his. It got stolen in early 70's. We talked to him at the SS nationals in York. That car was his. He told us that his father knew who stole the car. Don't know what happened then. he then borrowed or leased Jenkins car. I believe it was the 1970 or 71 car. (not sure about dates) Jenkins was doing the Vega then I believe. Also Zul was in the low nines with stamped steel GM rockers. I SAW them. At one point, he was the fastest big block. Sam

[RichSchmidt]

Back then,Zul was one of the first guys to run Ford Cleveland rockers on the big Chevy because it bumped the ratio from 1.70 to 1.73:1.He was also a big believer in compression,and he used to it run very late cam timing and was one of the only guys running 5.86:1 gears behind a bigblock at the time.He came to my friends shop to look over his prostock car that as also racing at the time,and he let in on a few of the ways he could have identified his engine.One way was that he milled the block so much that the top water pump bolt hole was almost breaking through the deck,and the other was that the heads were so angle milled that the headers were smashed against the starter motor.He claims he later started refacing the exhaust flanges to make the headers not hit,but you can imagine how milled down all that stuff must have been.The popular opinion at the time was that the engine ended up in a very fast big money race camaro from Newark{who I wont name},but looking back at it,many agree that during the time frame that Zul's car disappeared,there was a certain big tire 409 impala that got real fast out of no where at the street races,and that seems the be the new opinion on where it might have went.Either way,everybody seemed to agree that the engine wouldnt even show up in an actual race car.
SO the only part of the story that was incorrect was that the 69 car was never in the hands of a Jenkin's team racer.Either way,Zul should have put better locks on his doors.Having the second car stolen must have really stunk.
Thanks again for the imput.

[Salvatore]

Thanks for trying to wake up my memory. Who was the N.J. street racer? Come on....Give me a hint. Ronnie Lyles, Levi Holmes??? Not Rufus B. Come on. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[RichSchmidt]

Back when it happened,a lot of fingers were pointing at Levi,but after all the smoke cleared,it seemed like it probably wasnt him.Another name I heard mentioned was a guy by the name of Chinaman,But after 30 years almost all of the players are dead or half baked,so I doubt the truth would ever be known.

[Salvatore]

Gotcha Rich! Sam

[WILMASBOYL78]

What happened to the docs or codes for that 4.10 L78? Inquiring minds want to know.

[GTO_DON]

JUST BOUGHT THE CAR! DONT HAVE THE TIME TO LOOK AT THE CODE.BEEN BUSY AT WORK WITH ALL THE SNOW AND ICE! ALL MY FRIENDS WRECKED THEIR TRUCKS WHEN I WAS AT BJ. PROMISE TO GIVE THE CODE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Bill Pritchard]

Waaaayyyy back on page 3 of this thread I posted that a friend of mine bought a new 70 Nova L78 with 4.10 gear.

Mea culpa http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Talking with him last night he said it came from the factory with a 3.55 gear. Very shortly after delivery he had a mechanic friend at the dealer "confirm" that his ring & pinion was "defective" and GM warrantied a 4.10 gear into it. That's why I thought it came from the factory with the 4.10. Sorry for any confusion http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Even the 4.10 didn't stay around long, as within a year he had a 4.56 in it - at his expense http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[GTO_DON]

TOM,YOU WERE RIGHT. I CHECKED THE CODE ON THE REAR AND IT DECODES AS A 355 [C BT 0702 G2] BUT WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS THE CAR WAS ORDERED WITH A 410,[DOCS TO PROVE] AND THE GEARS IN THE REAR ARE 410'S. WHAT DO YOU THINK? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gifENGINE NUMBER IS TO701CTY, DATE CODE GI9.CASTING NUMBER 3969854 TRIM TAG SAYS 07A TR741,58-58 PNT http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[lowmile]

Don, you can always look at the date code on the ring gear for more clues. mark

[WILMASBOYL78]

Let's go a little further, when you say "docs" are you refering to the dealership sales order form or some type of official GM form? If the selling dealer has the 4.10 listed on his sales order then it could be one of three things; Either the sales rep didn't know that the 4.10 was not available or they agreed to have it installed at the dealership. The other possibility is they ordered the car and requested the 4.10., it came in with 3.55 and they made the swap to keep the customer happy. What code is on the POP? Are you enjoying the car, hope you are. Tom

[GTO_DON]

i believe they installed the gears at the dealership to keep him happy,because according to the sales contract,he paid for it. im not enjoying the car because the engine and trans are out of it right now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Tom,
I believe all 3 of your scenarios are possible. I have also seen a Deuce with a 4.10 code come through with a 4.56!

[cammer427]

RichSchmidt, would you happen to have any more info on this "Chinaman" character?