69 Z28 Sold for $112,000

[jfkheat]

That has to be a record for a 69 Z28. I think the buyer has more money that sense.
James

[SamLBInj]

Jeff Must be doing back flips! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif
I know the guy that bought it was going to buy it no matter what, but he was still being bid against by others...Wow, if that sticks, what do you think regular Z/28's will go for..70K? I would go for that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
Z/28's are worth more than Copo 427 Camaros and Chevelles so far...Bet Ed Cuneen is in shock after seeing his cars go for 30-40k less than the Z/28 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Sam

[Charley Lillard]

I don't even think it was a real Z28. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't even think it was a real Z28. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Serious? what makes you think that? awful expensive fakey...You know the guy that bought it? He seemed to be hitting the free beverages pretty hard... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Sam

[SuperCars]

That's strange for sure. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Charley, although it went down as being sold; do you think that was real bidding and a real sale?

[JTH74]

I am with you Supercars, is that a real sale or not, no way a Z is going to bring more than a COPO, that price was way out of line for that! I would hope for that price you could put 3 top restored Z's in the garage, not bashing Z's at all because I love them, one of the most beautiful cars made! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[firstgenaddict]

Saw the interview with the guy afterwards ...He owns a Chev dealership and collects corvettes

[Charley Lillard]

Supercars..the seller was Mark Young from the Chev Connection in Portland Or. He is the same Guy that had a Astro Blue LS6 convert at Reno last year that sold at Barrett the year before as a Gobi Beige car with no paperwork. So a year later it has a new trim tag and a protecto plate. He is the very best at building cars for auctions. He also sold the Corvette Bronze 68 L89 Camaro. I was offered that car a few Months ago before he had it but I passed because there was no paperwork, now it has a protecto plate and Window sticker.

[Charley Lillard]

Here is the engine pad of the 68 L89

[Charley Lillard]

The L89

[Charley Lillard]

The L89 Engine compartment

[Charley Lillard]

The L89 Protecto plate

[T Billigen]

Hey! Mines going to look like that! Almost http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Zedder]

I have to admit, I've never seen a POP as "white" as the one from the L89 - at least the Corvette guys spill a little "tea" on their buildsheets to give them a nice "patina" before selling the cars http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Mr70]

Charley,Or anyone else reading this.
Can you find out the VIN# of that 1970 Gobi Beige Chevelle LS6 Convert.,now converted to an Astro Blue LS6 Convert.?
I may have some facinating Information about this Chevelle.
It will help the Hobby,believe me.
Rick

[Jeff H]

Woohoo! I didn't see it last night, there was no tv at the bar I was at. Which car was this Z28?

[DarrenX33]

Maybe that guy can help me "document" my car. Then I can sell it and get me a COPO. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[LB68]

Did anyone else expect Charley to do a burn-out when he left the stage in his yellow corvette?

[GMC_Typhoon]

[ QUOTE ]
Charley,Or anyone else reading this.
Can you find out the VIN# of that 1970 Gobi Beige Chevelle LS6 Convert.,now converted to an Astro Blue LS6 Convert.?
I may have some facinating Information about this Chevelle.
It will help the Hobby,believe me.
Rick

[/ QUOTE ]Gobi LS6 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=171595)

[Stuart Adams]

That POP for the L89 does not look real. Can anyone read the name on it? Charley was there numbers made with tiny holes that correspond to the car on the owner protection plan booklet?

[Musclecarkid]

Interesting discovery on the infamous Gobi Beige 70 LS6 conv that is now Astro Blue. It's not a real one, cause with a vin like 136670B111501 it's an October 69 built 70 Chevele conv from Baltimore. Now we all know they didn't build any LS6 cars that early don't we! Sold in 2003 for $49,680 with NO docs. How much did it sell for since it was painted Astro Blue?

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
Sold in 2003 for $49,680 with NO docs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just going to make a comment. $50K for a "numbers matching" LS6 Convertible? Blue must have done that Chevelle justice. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[gemleeus]

hi, just registered as a forum member. the yellow 69 z car was supposedly a jl8 car. also it had an "original" crossram setup. although it means nothing unless # match equip. if original that would be a correct price on that car in "my" opinion. a crossram setup is running approx. 15k today. also it was nice restoration don't ya think. anyway looking forward to talking with all yall knowledgable guys in here.

[Stuart Adams]

Man there is soooo much negativity in the hobby now that these cars are bringing big bucks - greed and money bring all the BS to the surface. Man between the fakes, coverups, deception, lies ,etc. it's sad that the hobby is coming to this. Its great that you guys have the knowledge to keep these guys somewhat in check...

[gemleeus]

i understand what you are saying, i have recently come into the market looking to purchase a nice original muscle car. there are many crooks out there, but i have found so many nice, honest folks also in my search for the right car, i'am in the market for rare z cars or copo's. if you are going to spend that kind of many on a classic car you should do your homework to keep from getting burned, if you don't have any knowledge then hire a professional to check car for you, whats $400.00-$1000.00 to protect your investment? i'm buying for enjoyment and investment purpose. i can recall as a little boy watching a superbird go down the street and thinking i'm going to have one of those someday.

[Jeff H]

Remember, the crossram setup was an over the counter option so it would never be considered original equipment. Did the yellow JL8 crossram car have any documentation with it? And I mean real documentation, not fake stuff like the p-o-p that was with the 68 L89 car.

[gemleeus]

i understand the crossram was not factory installed, dealer option only. i thought i recall them saying that it was dealer installed? i guess they had proof of that? i think the car had "Q" code axle? and even if it didn't technology today could make it a Q coded axle if they wanted to go to that extreme. also, isn't an aftermarket crossram produced for the z? i don't really know, thats why i joined to find out from experts. hey, by the way your jl8 for sale?

[Jeff H]

The JL8 rear axle codes begin with "Q" so that does have some meaning. My car has the 3.73 rear which is the "QX" code. The GM crossram was an over the counter option so saying "dealer installed" doesn't really mean much since it wouldn't be original to the car. There are several aftermarket crossram's(Offenhauser, Edelbrock) with the Offy being very similar to the GM but with obvious differences. My car will probably be for sale some day, but right now it's still in the middle of the restoration. I've got the original protect-o-plate and broadcast sheet with it as well as matching #'s. One other thing, GM made some fiberglass crossram cowl induction hoods(less than 100) and I thought that yellow car had one of the GM hoods like I have. That will increase the value as well.

[firstgenaddict]

It used to be if a car was fake it was fairly easy to spot. But the problem now is there are so many crooks who know what they are doing ...and so many speculators willing to BLOW money on undocumented cars or cars with Quasi-documentation for fear of missing the "Big One" that real cars with real documentation go unnoticed because most owners do not have the money or the notion to take the cars BJ. By the way BJ researches in order to determine that the cars are what the owner says yet with their lack of overall knowledge about these cars and obvious lack of research as to the documentation they have done nothing good for the hobby. The people on this forum have done more than anyone to advance the knowledge of these cars and make the determinations as to their authenticity. Sorry had to vent on this....

[JChlupsa]

Received this in an E-mail today and after re-reading it a few times I have to say it does make sense.--
<font color="brown">Post:

I have noticed that a few years ago, about 50% of the auction listings had a reserve, and about 50% had no reserve. If you notice this year, about 95% of the auction listings have no reserve. It is commonly believed that cars with no reserve usually attract more bidders and higher chance of selling.

I have also heard a "hearsay rumour" that car owners are offered a reasonable flat fee commission by auctions to sell/buy their car if they list their cars with no reserve. This allows the car owner and their representatives to bid, driving up bids knowing they will not have to pay the buyer+seller % commision if they land out as top bidder; as they only had a flat fee. If this "rumour" is true, it would explain why sales are occuring at triple the car's market value. It could be the owner and his representative bidding against each other getting the car up to unrealistic prices. In essence buying back their own car knowing they were only committed to pay the flat fee irregardless of how high the bid/sales price went up to. After the auctions, the car is re-marketed with the fact that it sold for $BIG DOLLARS$ at auction.

Nah! that can't be true, people would never do that??? </font>

[427TJ]

Keep in mind that the number one factor behind something like the B-J auction is MAKING MONEY and we ALL love to make money, right? I sure do. Yes, the B-J folks look at a car and try to spot possible gaps in its credibility but if it's not obvious or easily proven that a car is a fake (or "incorrect" etc.) then it rolls across the stage. Mr. Jackson, in his defense, would probably tell you that he is more interested in someone getting "the car of their dreams" (and thus, a sales comission) than tossing out all the 'questionable' cars. Auctions are about EMOTION and MONEY--mainly MONEY.

Heck, if I won the Powerball I'd be down there next year with the Big Dogs and I'd probably drop more than $170,000 for that orange Hemi Superbird! I'd be like that guy who bought all four of the Callaway Corvettes for over $600,000! That'd be really fun to do, especially if money was no object. I'd be buyin' cars and high-rollin' and all those good looking women with the plastic surgery would be checkin' me out and...and...

Okay, back to reality. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[firstgenaddict]

If I am not mistaken that is a FEDERAL CRIME

[Jeff H]

Jeff, that's what happened last year with a lot of no reserve cars. They gave the owners the option to bid on their car in case the bidding didn't go high enough and all they had to do was pay a flat fee. I heard this last year, so this year they might have made it even easier. So all these cars that sold, how many really end up going to new owners?

[firstgenaddict]

Hey I have no objection to people paying whatever they want to pay for a car. Be it $1,000,000 for a 6 cyl .uh uh .I mean 9561 COPO Camaro. What I do have the objection to is the passing off of fake cars to people who belive that they are buying the Real Thing...I guess as always ...Buyer Beware. Maqybe if there was a Muscle car dealer who would give you 100% trade in allowance for anything he had as long as the car was in like condition... then you might feel better and believe that the guy was not faking cars.

[gemleeus]

i myself have entered this market for a muscle car. I just can't make up my mind which one to purchase, they all have their own special qualitys. i want an original car. what i learned in my research over the past few months is to educate yourself. study the various information resources out there so you don't get taken. muscle cars and fake muscle cars are big business.

[Chris396]

Hmm is this a repeat of the late 80's Ferrari market?

[gemleeus]

i've always loved the muscle car, grew up around them, although i was only around 15 yrs. old at the time. recently i'am now financially able to purchase the "car of my dreams" started looking a few months back and WOW what a surprise, the market is massive.

[John]

Welcome to the website....you can get alot of help here.
...You may want to fill out your profile ...thanks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[gemleeus]

thanks john, if you have any leads on any original cars let me know.

[Belair62]

I doubt it Chris...I think folks are very particular in the area of COPO and Yenko cars...colors and color combos,bench vs. buckets,auto vs. 4 speed, provenance (I hate that word) go a long way in determining their value...I'll bet the Burnished RS car was really nice...the Monaco Chevelle and the Fathom Camaro must have had other issues.As for the resto rods bringing idiotic money...go figure...these folks must just have wanted the car they bid on at all cost...I don't think they were concerned that a few years down the road it's going to be just a very cool rod...and not worth what they have into it.JMO

While the word "provence" is a word some hate, it really should be one of the "cores" of determining value as far as I'm concerned. I don't think color and whether equiped with a 4spd or auto should be as important as paperwork and being able to unequivocally prove a car is what it is spposed to be. What is worth more..a reported Hugger Orange COPO with no paperwork, but a trim tag that falls into a certain build range....or...a 1969 L78 with real docs (not just a new looking POP) that is Mist green and an auto..I'll take the L78 all day, every day. I firmily believe we are entering into a time of declining prices on most of the cars. I don't see how prices can continue to go up, when there is so much apparent fraud and disception going on..restamped parts, faked trim tags, added POP's, etc. Therefore the cars that have "history" or "provence" will continue to appreciate (not as fast as we have seen since 2001 though), while the cars that don't have that sort of paper will loose value. Also there is a certain point when the people holding the disposable income to buy a collectible car will determine what is the "envogue look," and consequently the prices will be set accordingly.

I think we are seeing the prices reflect that the musclecar hobby is by far a group of older, white guys that were babyboomers. While as of right now they control the disposable income to buy 50k dollar "original" cars, the tides are shifting. More and more 20-30 somethings are wanting the look of a 1969 Camaro but without all the associated BS of building a "trailer queen" original car. I would bet that the guys that were building "original" Model T's in the 1950's and 1960's never thought people wouldn't want their cars as collectibles..how many get sold today? Have the prices appreciated in respect to inflation or income levels from 1950 to 2004? Doubt it..

[redline]

[ QUOTE ]


Heck, if I won the Powerball I'd be down there next year with the Big Dogs and I'd probably drop more than $170,000 for that orange Hemi Superbird! I'd be like that guy who bought all four of the Callaway Corvettes for over $600,000! That'd be really fun to do, especially if money was no object. I'd be buyin' cars and high-rollin' and all those good looking women with the plastic surgery would be checkin' me out and...and...


[/ QUOTE ]

As much as it would be fun to get in on the action, I think that has to be one of the last places I'd actually buy a car, I don't care if I'm on TV for 15 seconds. I'd sooner search out the nice cars and by them right from the seller.

Jackson himself is nothing but a low life, trying to pump up the prices and his commission, makes me sick watching that guy smile and laugh the whole time. The announcers are so interested in the top selling cars $$$$$, big deal, I'd be more interested in the 'Best Deals'...but there probably isn't any there anyway.

$400,000 for a street rod?? what kind of resale is there in that 10 years down the road? Idiots.

[Eddie M.]

to me the deals to be had are from the local papers and maybe the swaps meets or just out driving around and looking

[SuperCars]

Jeff, I've heard the same flat fee auction commission also. As an example, I can understand how the "69 Z28 thread for $112,000" subject of this thread is possible. Two bidders that are partners in any car can bid each other up to sky's the limit, knowing with the flat fee arrangement, they won't be having to pay the seller&amp;buyer commission. Their hope of course is that some sucker will jump in and bid at those high numbers. But if no one does, after the auction they still own the car and can advertise it later as a car that sold for $112,000 at auction. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

I wonder if this has happened to a number of these unrealistic car sales price. It seems we may not know what were true sale prices here. Is $400K for a street rod a real sale? Why pay that as isn't it possible to get one built for less than $100K? Things don't seem right here, in my opinion.

[Belair62]

I think Charley was selling some of his old stash out in the lot !!!! Got those folks all juiced up for bidding !

[T Billigen]

Hey redline, love your hood! I had two NOS inserts a few years ago, man are they hard to find!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[gemleeus]

the selling of the zepher at 400k is extreme, BUT "IF" the yellow z was a real jl8 car, with a crossram installed, and in the condition the car was in it WAS worth 112k.

[mc25t190]

kevin, i agree, an arrangement between the buyer and seller on that one.

[Charley Lillard]

There was no agreement on the Zeppher. It was a real sale to a guy that is gonna put it in his collection. All those big sales were real. Barrett is by far the big dog in town and is really pushing the No reserve . I know dealers that have been selling there and if they buy one of their cars back they are paying full amount. Take it or leave it because they are the big dog. I'm sure there was well over 100K in that Zeppher. If it was built at a Pro Builders shop there was probably over 200K. There are People spending over 1 Mil getting street rods built. The 55 Numad is one example. You would have to be there to see how crazy the market there was. We are so focused on our #'s matching stock opinions. Others have opinions that they will pay more for a really neat looking car. We have our opinions but it doesn't necessarily mean we are right. I don't think the guy that paid 112K for that Z cares what the market is or if it was real,. It matched his Yellow Jacket is the reason he gave. I spoke to the seller of the 260K Shelby with the Aluminum 427. He was like the Cat that Ate the Canary. He was on cloud nine and in shock. There were several real bidders on that car at over 200K. These People don't care if they lose money down the road on them. They have enough money that the cars could all burn tomorrow and they would move on. Craig Jackson is up there excited right there along with everybody else in the room. There are also cars that for whatever reason sold for dirt cheap. That is what brings People to auctions.

[gemleeus]

there are plenty of yellow z's out there that he could have bought for a lot less money. he bought the car because of several factors. yellow was one, jl8, had a great looking crossram setup on it (not aftermarket stuff) era dated, as he said so proudly that the car was gonna set next to his vettes, why? because of the items i just mentioned, not just because the car was yellow, so numbers or rare options did play on his reason to purchase "no matter what the price" as he stated. the zepher was glorious looking no doubt, but many good resto shops could have made it (look) that way, what was the big deal about? i'll tell you, the massive bad boy v12, i don't think they are to many of those left today. usually options or rarity will influence a large amount than over the way something looks.

[Jeff H]

When you get down to it, a lot of people have a different outlook on life since 9/11. And people that have the means to buy or build what they want, are doing it. No reasons needed. If you don't enjoy the vehicle you have, then why own it? These hi-tech, ultra clean street rods are cool and very easy to drive. I like both original and rare cars as well as a modernized classic.

[Stuart Adams]

Well said.

[SuperCars]

I have heard a number of high profile collectors speak about the "no reserve" flat fee commision agreement. I don't know if it is true or not, as I have never brought a car to auction. So maybe I am just too suspicious when I hear sales prices that seem unjustified. But to each their own; as guys with unlimited funds have every right to spend it on whatever they want to if it makes them happy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
When you get down to it, a lot of people have a different outlook on life since 9/11. And people that have the means to buy or build what they want, are doing it. No reasons needed. If you don't enjoy the vehicle you have, then why own it? These hi-tech, ultra clean street rods are cool and very easy to drive. I like both original and rare cars as well as a modernized classic.

[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with that!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Sam

[Charley Lillard]

I know some of the smaller auctions sometimes have agreed to reduce fees if the dealer has to buy the car back but Barrett is so big that they are at the Mercy of nobody. 10 Dealers could refuse to bring cars to Barrett and it would have no effect. I have a Friend that is a Dealer and he has alot of Consignment cars. He tried to do Barrett with Reserves and was told they could only be listed with no Reserves. He explained to them that he does not own the cars and the car owners have net prices that he has to get before he can sell their cars. If those net prices were not met, they would have to made up out of his pocket. He could effectively be Bankrupted if everything went wrong. He did not bring any cars and only a couple People asked me why he wasn't there.

[NWYENKO]

RUMOR here in the NW is that sometime in the last few months 6 guys ponied up $20k each and bought the Zepher for the purpose of taking it to the auction. REMEMBER I said RUMOR. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Jim

[KLONECO]

thank you for the pictures http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Charley.......I really enjoyed viewing them...

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
RUMOR here in the NW is that sometime in the last few months 6 guys ponied up $20k each and bought the Zepher for the purpose of taking it to the auction. REMEMBER I said RUMOR. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Jim

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking of something along those lines, There are alot of members on this site and with all the knowledgable people here it would be a no-brainer to get as many people as we can and pitch in maybe 5-10K each and start buying up cars for the purpose of making money. Kinda like a stock club but with cars. We have people all over the country and in Canada to look and check out cars and with the prices the way they are I would rather do this than buy stocks. May even get enough cash to build a track with storage buildings and rent that out for special events..I believe there is something like this for road race cars down in Texas somewhere where everyone owns a piece and they can also use all the different cars for a certain yearly additional fee and run them around the track. You could even get into the restoration end.
Anybody??
Sam

[TimG]

We are hauling a Chevelle LS6 Convertible to the BJ auction in March and they clearly stated that the buyer and seller fee will apply if the buyer purchases his own car. They also did not want the car to go across the block with a reserve. They generally put lots of pressure on you to remove the reserve when the bidding stalls. This generally brigns the bidding back to life a bit.

[Charley Lillard]

Barrett Jackson is doing a auction March 18-21 in Palm Beach Florida. I was told that GM is selling off a bunch of cars that they have had tucked away.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Barrett Jackson is doing a auction March 18-21 in Palm Beach Florida. I was told that GM is selling off a bunch of cars that they have had tucked away.

[/ QUOTE ]
I will be there, anyone else? Nothing like Palm Beach in the spring http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Sam

[Jeff H]

I'm still surprised at the money that car got at BJ. I've always wanted a COPO car but could only afford the JL8 I bought from Charley at the time. I know I wanted to have something rare and different but I did not expect the values to climb like they have. I just need to get the car finished.
http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/[email protected]/JL8/barecar001.jpg

[SamLBInj]

Hey Jeff,
Is this the stage your car is presently in? How backed up is the shop you have it in?
Sam

[Jeff H]

The car should have the new quarters and tailpanel installed by now and should be hitting the paint booth in March. He's working on several 69 Camaros at the same time(2 JL8's, L89 conv, Pace Car, RS conv). It comes down to having the money to pay for the work. I need to find out where these guys at BJ get their line of credit from, sign me up!

[TimG]

I understand that the GM cars will be there. I would like to bring a Cobra, but it sounds like the auction may be geared to GM cars.

[csx289]

Without trying to offend anybody in the group, I am going to put my $.02 in. I am a dealer, and have been selling cars at Barrett-Jackson for over 10 years. THEY DO NOT DO FAVORS FOR ANYBODY! That would include offering a "flat fee" buy-back or any other such nonsense. I know, I sold 3 killer big dollar muscle cars there this past weekend, all no reserve. There is no rhyme or reason to what the retail buyer will pay in the crazy world of lights, camera, auction. My cars (IMHO) were very well documented, very well restored (9k mile Green Hemi 'Cuda, 1-owner; Duntov Award winning Vette 425HP Rdst with ALL paper and #'s;70 Judge frame -off and perfect car, etc...), but that made no difference to the buyers there. For instance, the buyer of my Judge ($47,500+ commission) came over AFTER he bought it and wanted to know if it "was really a Judge" and said he bought it because he thought they were cool when he was a kid.The buyer of my Vette said his wife liked the color, and had no idea what the significance was of the paperwork, awards, or the 425 HP 427. And don't ask me why my 'Cuda brought $52,500 less than a lesser car with many incorrect items.

I am also a friend of Charley's, and we stood there taking it in, as we always do. No sense trying to analyze it, people are strange. If you are not a "car guy", you act on impulse more than knowledge. If you can afford that luxury, you obviously have either great luck or have been sucessful in other endeavors that allow you to just do what you want.If only people would give drug addicts or alcoholics as hard of a time for wasting money on that crap as car guys give the "checkbook collector" for paying "too much" this world would be a better place!

What it boils down to is this: Comparing what happens at Barrett-Jackson to the real world is like comparing our climate to the one on the moon.Let's take it for what it is and not start spreading rumors around about things we don't know about. The only thing I feel confident enough to say is that Charley knows what is up with the seller of the "L89" and "JL8" cars, he has a long track record of bogus cars and unhappy customers. I must like to sleep more than him, and I have never thought that having eyes in the back of my head would make me more attractive, so I keep telling the truth! They are just cars, and having to go out in public, having pride and integrity, and the thought of maybe someday having to account for my actions with to a higher power somehow makes building B.S. cars with B.S. papers seem not worth the few extra bucks. Just my opinion!

Let's keep it clean and not judge a man because he wants to spend HIS money, no matter how much or how little, on a car he likes. It doesn't hurt anybody. Likewise, by keeping on the truth and not rumors , and watching each other's back, we can be a litte smarter and stay one step ahead of the con artists WITHOUT sounding like a group of gossiping, jealous old ladies!

In the mean time, Charley has purchased a few sheets of P-O-P paper for his laser printer, if anybody needs some docs for there car. $29.95 while supplies last.

Your worn out AZ correspondent,
Colin http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Feel better now Colin ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jeff H]

I thought it was even the announcers last year that said the owners had the opportunity to buy back their own car. And that's why there were so many cars listed with no reserve. Why would BJ not allow a dealer to bring multiple cars if he wants to list them with a reserve?

[SamLBInj]

Hey Colin,
Do you have a website from which you deal through?
Sam

[csx289]

Yes, Charley, I do!

At least there is not a YALE in my garage, just a Phoenix!

Colin http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif

[csx289]

www.classicauto-sales.com (http://www.classicauto-sales.com) is my web site.

Sorry for the shameless plug, but you asked!

Colin

[Charley Lillard]

I just spoke to a Friend that says he thinks the JL8 car is a real one from Simi Valley that he didn't buy years ago. In fact he sold me the crankshaft out of it when I bought a real JL8 Z from him that Jeff Hansbury now has. He also had the steering column and Rosewood wheel out of it. A Kid owned it at the time and was doing a full custom so he didn't need any of the orig stuff. It had no paperwork so he didn't buy it.

[Jeff H]

I assume you're referring to DH. I sure hope that JL8 was a legit car, especially for the hobby in general. Any idea what the VIN was on that car? Curious to see another LA built JL8.

[Charley Lillard]

Yes it was Dave..I don't know the vin.

[MGINLA]

Charley,

Do you know if the kid who owed the car works at a Dealership? If so I know who put that car back together. I tried to find that car on Saturday but, I think the guy move it off site. If that is the car I think it is, it will make a grown man cry. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif By the way I like your Yale and Barrett was packed on Saturday. You could not move. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MotownMadman]

I found it a bit odd that I could not find the Winters mark on the intake manifold......
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[rpoz11]

Charley, several years ago, there was a fella up in Ventura County area that was an old Hollywood actor who purchased a Z28 from a dealer waaaay back when. I met a friend of his who introduced me to him once way back in the early 90's and got him to sell me one of those AC TALL X-Ram air filters(un-opened boxes) he had for my then Azure X33 X-Ram set-up. He had about 20 of them; they were spares to his X-Ram Z28. That was the car he purchased and had then. That car was a Black Z.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

There was a black RS/Z that went through B/J back in the mid 1990's that was also a LA built car. That car was also a JL8, crossram car with a lot of options. It was owned by a FL collector that had home up this way. Car didn't have any paperwork either. Any thoughts on who has it now?

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
I found it a bit odd that I could not find the Winters mark on the intake manifold......
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it a polished crossram?

[Belair62]

Colin...I agree...BJ is not the real world.....but I have to admit....you probably wouldn't look too bad with eyes in the back of your head.....you would only need an extra pair of sunglasses when you are driving that ugly little blue Ferrari...you really should sell that so no one knows you actually own it !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Charley Lillard]

No the intake wasn't polished. Probably a Offenhauser with the name ground off then bead blasted.

[TimG]

Was the '66 the Sunfire Yellow car? It looked nice and did not appear to sell above its actual value. I remember it being a Bloomington Gold car.

[Charley Lillard]

Yes it was, nice car.

[MGINLA]

Charley,

Did you take any pictures of the Z28 or do you know of any pictures?

Thanks

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
No the intake wasn't polished. Probably a Offenhauser with the name ground off then bead blasted.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking. Grind off the Offenhauser name and cut off the linkage tabs then have Jerry M. reskin it and you have a look alike for a lot less than a GM intake.

Did this yellow JL8 crossram car have any documentation with it at BJ?

[Charley Lillard]

No I didn't take any pics and I would never recommend anyone buy a car from this guy. He would never send a intake out when he could just grind and blast it and maybe paint it with aluminum paint to give it that perfect auction car look....oops

[Jeff H]

Did the Yellow JL8 car have any documents at BJ?

[Charley Lillard]

Here is part of a email I recieved regarding the Z28..... "Yes, the car is an original Z28 but, that is as far as it goes. The story about the car being redone as a custom is true. However, he lost interest and sold the rest of the car before completion. The kid did not try to pass it off as a JL8 car.

When the new owner started the rebuild he had someone examine the rear end and the brakes and was told it was a JL8 car. The restoration was finished and the car was offered for sale.

I had a friend talk to the kid's Father about the car as it was the kids Uncle's car. The Father was a mechanic specializing in brakes and suspension. He clearly recalls adding the rear end and the brakes with his brother. They were able to obtain parts from GM at the time.

The cross-ram must have been added in the last 6 month. It was not sold with the car. Also I am not sure if it had spoilers but they were added after."

[Jeff H]

Wow!

[MotownMadman]

Charlie,
I would be willing to bet that if someone were to go back and check on Ebay the last 90 days it would be discovered that the several cross ram setups made by Offenhauser or whoever that were sold as complete units, one may have found it's way to the former owner of this car. The intake looked like it had a fresh bead blast with no sign of the Winters mark. I think I may have taken photos of the car, I have over 125 I need to download off my camera, if I have any I will post them asap.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Same seller sold a Crossram Z at one of the Auctions last year for big bucks that I think was the edelbrock with the name ground off. It had the fuel lines on the outside of the carbs but fooled most auction bidders. I'm sure every Z28 he sells from now on will have a crossram and it will be non GM.

[70 copo]

Charlie,

You are 100% correct. The carbs were new Holley production, and the manifold was also aftermarket.

Dollar value was not the issue on this car. The issue was the big $$$ pissing contest that these guys got into. Egos ruled on the block on this sale.

Otherwise it was perhaps a good mid $40K car.

Then again so was the yellow Hemi (318) clone that sold last year for $130+. Go figure. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[T Billigen]

Hey Phil, you look on TV! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[bbdon]

I have an Offenhauser SB Chevy crossram, it cannot be mistaken for the factory type because the carbs mount side by side instead of offset front to back, and it is cast in just one piece. I think that you need to start with an Edelbrock crossram to make a good fake factory crossram.

[427TJ]

Offy makes the both the side-by-side and the staggered 'factory' version.

[mc25t190]

i agree, that deal was offered to me when i was going to take a car there last year, i kindly refused and didn't like them trying to force me into a low reserve. i will never, repeat never register or buy a car from BJ.

[gemleeus]

i've looked on both offenhauser and eldebrock websites looking for the crossram intakes and never seen any? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[SamLBInj]

There was one listed on Ebay a couple months ago, It was polished and was missing numbers, Went for 1,700 bucks.
Sam

[gemleeus]

so offy or eldebrock don't sell them anymore?

[Jeff H]

Check out this research article at CRG on the crossrams. CRG Crossram Research (http://www.camaros.org/crossram.shtml)

[MotownMadman]

There is a guy who sells the complete set ups with carbs and linkage on Ebay, he seems to have a never ending supply, I have seen three go in the last four months, he claims the manifolds to be new from engine displays in speed shops, carbs either new or rebuilt. They have been bringing $900-$1200. I have his Email address if you want to get in touch with him.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

Get a PAW catalog, They still sell the OFFY Z28 style crossrams with all three tops seperatly a 2x4--3x2 and a single 4 brrl top

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a guy who sells the complete set ups with carbs and linkage on Ebay, he seems to have a never ending supply, I have seen three go in the last four months, he claims the manifolds to be new from engine displays in speed shops, carbs either new or rebuilt. They have been bringing $900-$1200. I have his Email address if you want to get in touch with him.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I tell ya, Since the original Manifold is a 2 piece unit it would not be very difficult to make a mold from an original and make your own...I wonder if that would be Legal http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Sam

[Mark_C]

You can buy the Offy manifolds all day long at PAW. The base half is exactly the same as the GM manifolds except for the winters casting marks, The upper half is pretty close except for the Offenhauser name a 360 degree logo, some minor differences in the lip that runs around the top of the upper manifold, carb mounting holes for square bore and spread bore carbs and linkage ears on the top cover. The base sells for $225, the upper dual carb top sells for $120, and the linkage sells for $40. If your going to grind the linkage mounting ears off to make a replica then you don't need the linkage. The Offy manifold on the CRG site was mine.

[JChlupsa]

I have a OFFY setup with a pair of 450 CFM carbs at the house. Also theres a GM set up on the Team Camaro for sale section right now!!!