02 zl1's

[gemleeus]

what stock do you guys put on the 02 zl1's and the phase 2 packages from chevy and gmmg. what ya think about their worth 10-20 yrs. down the road. funny thing also, i live within a stones throw of gmmg http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[GRB]

I think most of the appreciation will come for the 427 cars. Like all muscle cars they won't truly increase in value for 10-20 years when cars like that are no longer available. It takes time. Remember the original 69 ZL1s wouldn't even sell new. So, appreciation, if any, will come somewhere down the road.

The reason I bought one is (in my humble opinion http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif) I think the last generation of Z28/SS Camaros is vastly unappreciated. And I love the car.

[JChlupsa]

#2 02 ZL1 is on Ebay right now

[GRB]

How much?

[gemleeus]

its at 50k right now, west chevrolet shows to have a silver one for 125k

[02whiteragtop]

West chevrolet actually has a white phase 3 ZL1 on the showroom floor, for approximately $ 110k. This was supposed to be Steve West's personal car but I assume that if he can make about $28k over sticker, he will part with it. As for the silver car, it was picked up from his dealership at the same time the above stated white ZL1 was delivered. It was my understanding, that the silver ZL1 was sold and being transported back to GMMG for phase 3.

Back to the original question, I was wondering the same thing. My car is a 380hp and I have thought about upgrading to the phase 2 package but, I am reluctant to spend the extra money, if somewhere down the road it would not payoff in the value of the car how.

[mc25t190]

I love mine, the most fun car to drive in the world. i feel they will increase more initially than any other car in its class, ie viper, vette. the long term benefits of the car will be enormous. the 69 zl1's were $7200 new, now $300,000. The phase III ZL1, repainted, @ $92,000 will appreciate over 33 years at the same adjusted rate of 41% would put it at $3,833,640.. Will it go to that ? will it appreciate, MOST DEFINITELY!!!!!!

[PATRICKJOINER]

i love mine too.... the upside is tremendous!! the few that have sold, outside buying the car direct from the dealer (sometimes) at sticker, they have sold for 20K over sticker & more... especially the phase III cars... just a neat car..

[GRB]

I think most of us that own them have no intention of selling them. When I get mine back in the garage I will enjoy seeing it everyday. Kind of like a piece of art. Camaro art. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Some people would have me committed for that statement....I'd better stop. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[mc25t190]

every sale to date i've heard is 10-20k over sticker. i think they will hold , then run HARD!

[matt murphy]

The West Chevrolet White ZL1 #53 was sold and built as a Phase 3 car and before it was finished, the customer couldn't come up with the money, and backed out. It was finished as a Phase 3 for Steve Wests own collection. He then sent his Silver #54 ZL1 here to get a Phase 3 done to it after driving the white one. He now has two in his collection, but told me that he would sell either one and keep the other one.

As for the future or immediate investment for these cars, it is hard to say. If collectors and performance minded people are out there looking for a 4th gen Camaro to put away, I think our cars among others are going to be in demand. It seems that the Phase 2 cars were in big demand to either buy from the dealers new, or second hand from the customers (we have built about 80 Phase 2 cars to date (6 in the past month) and 535 Camaros and Firebirds overall since 2000). Recently it seems that the Phase 3 option has been the big request and so far in the last year we have built 50 Phase 3 cars. 42 ZL1's and 8 more either HotRod cars, Berger SS cars, or 35th Anniversary Performance Edition cars. As most of you know, we only work on cars we have built for the dealers, and not street cars . . . sorry. So if you own a GMMG car ( www.gmmginc.net (http://www.gmmginc.net) ), you can send it back to get a Phase 2 or Phase 3 upgrade.

I don't like comparing our cars to the Bergers, Yenkos, Nickeys, Motion, etc, cars of the 60's, but I think you can compare the way people are ordering the GMMG cars of today to the way they collect those cars, in that people want more options and or whatever is available on them. Phase 3 with the roll cage, etc. seems to be the latest interests. It is hard to build cars today that will sell at retail at the dealership level and then sell even higher after the owner purchases it and then decides to sell it. Knowing a bit about the 60's and 70's high performance Chevys and what makes them collectible is the formula we have used here. Ad the Chevy involvement, and the Dealer involvement and the Engine upgrade packages and the fact that the Camaro and Firebird are gone (for a while I hope), all these have aided in the collectibility of our cars. I also think you can look at the packages we put out and see that the GMMG cars try to hit on every aspect, not just performance or appearance, but both and then some. It helps when you have GM supporting you, and helping out, and the dealerships supporting these cars and helping out. A lot of the success of these cars has to do with timing, but I also believed that people would buy a modern day dealer muscle car if it was done to the formula of the 60's, and so far we are all having fun.

Everyone has asked us where do we go from here . . . well, we aren't going to Disney World just yet . . . We have a few projects that we will be doing this year that will have most gearheads and collectors rearranging their finances . . . Stay alert as we will be releasing some news soon . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[gemleeus]

WOW, i know who you are. you own gmmg, i spoke with you on the phone after finding out about these cars on the net. you were so nice in spending a good deal of time with me explaining your cars, you turned me on to the west chevy site concerning the two cars they had for sell. thanks again for being so personable and approachable. i live behind your place off canton rd. thanks for being a part of this forum, makes it nice to know someone as yourself is a part of the supercar forum here, (not meaning to sound giddy). i think your efforts have brought other producers of high performance cars into the ring. shelby and his efforts with the eleanor, gt350r, and cobra. some company out west produced a plymouth gtxr- don't think its for sale though, but i'm sure its coming, and now ford is about to unveil its gt car, and its a mammoth. by the way, i visited the west site a couple of days ago and the silver zl1 showed to still be for sale? thanks again for your great efforts in producing the 02 zl1.

[J_D]

I believe all 69 of the '02 ZL1's will appreciate in value given time. The Phase I and Phase II models number less than the Phase III model so they will be a little rarer. Don't knock the Phase II package though. I own one and Matt, Mike and Bille build them right and extremely tough. Everyone that has ridden in my car simply cannot believe that a late model Chevy is so radical.

For those of you considering an upgrade from Phase I to Phase II, if you can afford it, go for it. Believe me you will be happy you did. I know the Phase III is an awesome package because I have driven a couple of them. But please DO NOT underrate the Phase II package either.

[NCGuy68]

Geezzz........

Whats a guy to do that owns one of the 83 built Dale Earnhardt Intimidator Camaros? It is a GMMG built car and Matt was very happy to work with Earnhardt on it prior to his death.

Should I take it to 140+ MPH and wrap it around a telephone pole simply to collect the insurance so I could buy a ZL1?

Any thoughts?

[J_D]

No, of course not ! ! !

Your Intimidator SS is certainly a very special car. I would love to own one of those as well. The point I was trying to make was that not only are the Phase III package cars special, but so are the Phase II and Phase I cars. For those folks that have considered taking their cars from Phase I to Phase II, I was attempting to assure them that they would be happy with the outcome. It is not my desire to knock your car, the Tom Henry cars, the 35th anniversary performance cars or any other special cars Matt and the crew have produced. I apologize if any of you misunderstood my comments. That was not my intent at all. I was just trying to make the point that I feel ALL of the GMMG cars will be collectable SOMEDAY given the proper love, care and attention they deserve.

[matt murphy]

Craig . . . Save the car and put your thoughts through the phone line to us . . . I say you build it into the first Intimidator SS with a Phase 3 - 427. Dale would have his upfitted by now . . . He was enough of a terror with 381HP, I'd hate to see him behind the wheel of 600HP in a street Camaro . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gifhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gifhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

JD . . . the Phase 2 is an animal and yes, only a few know that . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . We have a few projects that we will be doing this year that will have most gearheads and collectors rearranging their finances . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this why #3 sold recently, #2 is on Ebay, #1 has been been offered up for sale, and a couple of other phase 3 cars can be bought for right around cost? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

#1 has been offered up for sale...that's the last one I thought would be offered!?!?...Odd indeed....give me a couple years and I'll be in the market for one of those Phase III bad boys http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Charley Lillard]

"every sale to date i've heard is 10-20k over sticker. i think they will hold , then run HARD!"...Wait a minute. Where is my 10-20 over sticker ?

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
#1 has been offered up for sale...that's the last one I thought would be offered!?!?...Odd indeed....give me a couple years and I'll be in the market for one of those Phase III bad boys http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


And for about another half a mil, he will throw in the matching 1969 ZL-1. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[matt murphy]

I have it right here in the form of a TALL DECK SPOILER WAITING FOR YOU . . . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif What color do you want it ? ? ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[mc25t190]

the increase is in the new owners hands! PJ was Lucky! As you are w/ # 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!originaL!

[gemleeus]

i think how ever you bought those cars they should stay that way. if you want a different one, buy it. if you can't afford it sell the one you have and buy the one you want. if you still can't afford it then i'm sorry for you. don't mess with originality. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[02whiteragtop]

Hey Matt! I haven't talk to you in a while.

Did I understand you correctly. have you installed phase 3 packages in Berger, Hot Rod and 35th Performance cars? I'm not saying that anything is wrong with that. I just thought the 427 engine you were installing in the ZL1, was going to be a limited availability. If I misunderstood, I apologize!

A 427 in My car would be http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Chris White

[matt murphy]

Yes . . . GMMG started offering a Phase 2 engine package in 2000, and we did the first one on Matt Berger's 2000 Berger SS. We then built another Phase 2 package for Matt's 2001 Berger SS and one for Johnny Benson's 2001 Berger SS. It then became something other Berger owners wanted. We then offered it to anyone with a GMMG car as an upgrade. Due to emission issues, the phase 2 package had to be a customer added option.

We have a base 380HP LS1 and 400HP LS6 package and the Phase 2 and Phase 3 package are customer options that can be added to those. The ZL1 cars were the first that we built with the Phase 3 427's, but like the Berger SS's that were the first Phase 2 cars, that became a GMMG option, not project specific. The 427 is not a ZL1 only option nor will adding it to any other GMMG car make that car a ZL1.

Charlies (Feature Car of the Month) Yenko is a good example . . . it was sent back to Yenko to get options added and that didn't hurt the value of it. Most of the dealer Performance cars had a base package and the customers could add to that . . . We are just taking care of these customers and helping them get more of what they want http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif MORE POWER http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[sYc]

I would think putting 427s in more GMMG cars, and/or building more 427 cars would tend to soften the market for all 427 GMMG cars. As we all know, the value of collector cars is very dependent on the numbers game, especially the number produded. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I know I would hate to see Yenko start building/selling '69 Yenkos again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[gemleeus]

i think the same thing would happen if more were out fitted with the 427, katech, more perf. and others can do the same thing but of course its not a chevy backed gmmg car. the 69 02 zl1's that were built had that documentation of being 1 of 69 units built as was in 1969. people then also installed the 427 in their cars, but bought the engine from the dealer or an other source. as far as the vin#'s go on those 69 02 zl1's designating them as 427 cars i don't know about that. maybe someone can explain that. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think putting 427s in more GMMG cars, and/or building more 427 cars would tend to soften the market for all 427 GMMG cars. As we all know, the value of collector cars is very dependent on the numbers game, especially the number produded. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom...your point is well taken.

However, Yenko, Motion, Dana, etc...would build a car to customer specs if so desired. I think Matt & GMMG are trying to again offer that service. I understand your concern about 'diluting' the numbers, yet its been over 30 years since we've had a GM car worthy of supercar status.

All comments are welcome.

[matt murphy]

I agree with you guys to a point; but, we really can't say how many Phase 2 or Phase 3 GMMG cars were or will be built because we are still building them. Again, Charlie's car is a good example . . . Yenko was still around 10 years later and that customer wanted to upgrade his Yenko and they did.

On a side note, there was a 1967 Shelby GT500 that was at BJ and the current owner restored it with an aluminum 427 race motor and the announcers said that Carroll Shelby authorized it and changed that car in his records now to be a 427 race aluminum motor car. I dont think 30 years later, a Shelby Mustang should have its paperwork redocumented. Joel could do that if he wanted to, so could Berger on their COPO Camaros, but those cars were built 35 years ago, and our cars are still new. We still have two ZL1's here that the customers have not picked up or taken delivery of. I don't think we should penalize any customer that didn't know about the engine upgrades when they bought their GMMG car or if they couldn't afford it then.

Anyway, for our cars, we agree to upfit GMMG customers cars as long as we are in business. It really is a service to those customers and we started to offer this service based on, "If we don't offer the upgrades someone else will," or the owners will probably do it themselves or have Katech, Lingenfelter or Moore Performance, etc, do it for them. And then what do you have ?? A Camaro by GMMG modified by someone else. As long as we do the modifications, then that helps further document the cars. We also supply Chevrolet with our VIN numbers and the engine packages so they can monitor them whenever a warranty claim comes up on one of our cars. So far, no major warranty claims have come up on our cars that might have alarmed Chevrolet, but they do like it when they can call me and I can tell them exactly what was done to a certain car.

We are not changing history, as far as our GMMG history goes because we are not done writing it. Yenko, Motion, Nickey, Dana, and Berger from the 60's and 70's are done with their history simply because that era is over and most, not all, of those performance dealers, and performance shops, are no longer in business.

The bottom line is that you are talking about asking GMMG to stop selling cars and engine packages so the others that have them will be the only ones. I don't think anyone would have asked Yenko to stop working on or building cars after 1969 back then, so the cars they built would be more valuable . . . If they did, then there would be no Dueces or Turbo Z's or Charlie's car would still be a base 427 car.

When GMMG goes out of business, we will close the books on these cars and then the customers will have to go elsewhere or do any further upgrades themselves. I really dont see us doing these upgrades forever to these cars, but for now, it is hard to say OK to some, but sorry to others. Most customers that have asked, know, that I wont build one car and say that it is the only one ever made, but I will say that it is the first . . . Seriously, the number of upgrades will slow down in the following years and the cars history as far as GMMG goes will be cast in stone or CD's. Until then . . . we will still offer the upgrades.

Thanks for your input and ideas. I have dated the engine upgrades so we can tell when they were done and if a new owner, or potential buyer of one of our cars, wants to know the specifics on a particular GMMG car, they can call us and get the info from our files. And NO, we don't charge a fee . . . maybe in 30 years someone will dig up our files and sell the info for big $$$. Probably not . . .

[gemleeus]

so, there isn't any way, for instance, years down the road you have one of these cars and it has no paper docs. that you can decifer what come on one of the gmmg cars by simply looking at the vin, pop, cowl tag etc.? i know the window sticker states the option.

[CWilliams]

Matt said all you have to do is call them and they have everything done to the cars by GMMG on file.

Matts got his finger on the pulse of the 4th gen. Camaro projects, whats overboard, whats just right, etc., plus he has the right background to be doing what he's doing. Mike, Bille and the rest of the guys are hot rodders at heart, they build strength, reliability, AND horsepower in these cars and they like to satisfy customers.


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[matt murphy]

Lee,

15 years from now someone tells you a 2002 ZL1 is for sale at a used car lot in your town . . . You want to go look at it and you can't find my cell phone number to ask what to look for . . . Here are a few things to look for with and without a window sticker . . .

With a window sticker . . .

1) All of these ZL1's were B4C police cars called "Special Service Coupe"
2) All were built the second, third and forth week of MAY 2002
3) All had a dealer "Ship to" code of 08-386 (Bill Heard Chevrolet, Kennesaw, GA)
4) Dale Earnhardt Chevrolets name is on 24 of the window stickers, even though they didn't sell any of these cars. Berger Chevrolet bought the allocation from Dale's dealership. There are many different dealer names on the window stickers vs. the actual selling dealership. This will definately confuse things in the future, but something we did not forsee when the cars were ordered.

5) Obviously with our window stickers you will be able to tell the GMMG options, etc.


Without a window sticker . . . You need to look for these signs . . .

1) Look at the top pad on the passenger side of the engine block. It will read GMMGP1 or P2 or P3 for the base Phase 1 400hp, or Phase 2 475HP or the Phase 3 600HP engine package.

2) The VIN's ranged between 154530 to 161343

3) All were hardtops and 6-speeds originally (we changed 2 cars to auto #1 and #21)

4) Inside the drivers door jamb is a GMMG brass plate with the ZL1 car number on it as well as the dealer invoice number, our way to document and file the GMMG cars since the first one in 2000.

5) The drivers side rear axle tube has a blue painted area with the gear size stamped on it (i.e. 373 or 410 or 456), a way to tell the rear axle ratio without the window sticker.

6) Look at the Penske Racing Shocks (which are black in color with different colored top and bottom caps) and if the top and bottom caps are Silver then they were valved for Road Racing or Auto Cross, Gold caps were valved for Street Setup, and the Black caps were valved for Drag Racing.

7) The dash plaque and air cleaner sticker has the engine package info on each of them.

8) Look for the Corvette front and rear brake rotors and custome one piece front Corvette brake caliper bracket.

9) The rear lower control arms have solid rubber bushings in them vs. partial rubber bushings . . . these are part of the Police car suspension.


I could go on and on but I hope you get the point that even without the window stickers, there are tons of distinctive markings and parts and coded stamps that set these ZL1's far apart from any other Z28 or SS Camaro. I can't wait to see the clones or fakes some years down the road from now . . . or even the restored cars if that happens . . . It has to be neat for Joel to walk into the shows or look at one of his original Motion cars and see what has been done to it today, as far as being restored to the way he did them some 30 to 35 years ago. Some of the Chevy guys are talking about doing a book on these ZL1 cars and maybe including the other GMMG cars. That will have some incredible info and stories that will really amaze everyone on the history and making of these special cars.

One piece of 2002 ZL1 history . . . as I watch the 24hr of Daytona race on Speed Vision . . . I had the original Prototype car down there to show John Heinricy, the GM Engineer, who was racing that weekend in February of 2001 (who by the way is racing today as well in the #24 Corvette), and I ran into Dale Earnhardt in the pits with the car and we talked about the project and I showed him the car and its LS6 engine and the name was going to be ZL1 and we were going to build 69 of these. He told me he wanted 50 of them . . . I smiled as I was thinking of the conversation I just had with Matt Berger who told me that he wanted at least 25 of them. I told Dale that I dont think you will be able to get 50 of them since we are only going to build 69, and he poked me in the chest and said, "Fred Gibb ordered 50 ZL1's in 1969 and I want to order 50 ZL1's today." I said . . . "OK, I'll work on that Dale." Sadly he died the next week . . . but to his tribute, 24 of these cars have Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet on the window stickers and the next most dealers name on the stickers is 7 for Rick Hendrick Chevy and 7 for Henderson Chevrolet and only 4 with Berger Chevy on the stickers even though they sold 28 cars. All of the Earnhardt stickered cars were sold by Berger . . . A kind of poetic justice for Dale and Matt. I hope this was helpful to you and others . . .

[gemleeus]

i realize mr. murphy and gmmg knows and understand what they're doing. yes, right now he has his pulse on whats going on. down the road, years from now is what i was in reference to. thanks mr. murphy for your response to my question. i figured there was some kind of an identifiable difference between the 69 02 zl1's and the other cars you have produced. thanks again for your insight.

[82z96ss]

Just saw this thread for the first time. It is very informative. Thanks for all the information Matt.

But on another note, I find it sad that other GMMG cars are getting the C5R 427 (are they the exact ZL1 setup?). The Zl1's should be the only ones that received these packages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one difference between the 69 ZL1's and other COPO cars was an aluminum block versus cast iron. So there is even a difference in the motors. Now the only difference will be a badge.

The ZL1 was supposed to be the bad boy of the Camaro http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif, with others having the C5R 427 seems like others are getting the benefits of the ZL1 without paying the price of the ZL1. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif At least put a different 427 in the other GMMG cars.

Sorry, if my argument went off track, it is upsetting to me. So does that mean other GMMG cars can get a LS6 Phase 2 475 hp package instead of the LS1 Phase 2 435 package installed, etc... When do you say when?

[gemleeus]

i thought you read all of the replys in this thread. matt stated the 69 02 zl1's have various markings identifing them as the original 69 produced, those are already built and gone. the history of these cars have been set in stone. thats what i was in question about also, but matt explained that in detail. as in 1969 you could get the aluminum engines and set them in your camaro all day long, but that still didn't make it a zl1, same thing goes for the 02's. as far as money goes, the phase 1 and 2 cars were pretty expensive, now to send them back to gmmg and have the phase 3 package installed i'm sure would cost a lot of money, and well worth it i'm sure. don't worry there will always be only 69 1969 zl1's and only 69 02 zl1's ever made, and thank goodness for all the investment minded folks out there. i'll tell you honestly one thing that kind of puzzles me, i'm surprised to see the number of 02 zl1's for sale at this time, with people knowing the surely inherited value of these cars down the road. oh well maybe i can pick one up soon.

[02whiteragtop]

gemleeus,

I stand corrected. I went by West Chevrolet yesterday and the white ZL1 was sold about 2 months ago for $110K. Steve now has his silver car priced at $125K as you had stated. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

[gemleeus]

a friend of mine today told me he seen a 35th anniversary with the 427 pack. for sale on line and he couldn't remember the site. i would love to see that car, i bet its something special alright. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[MosportGreen66]

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/dealers.detail/hmn_vehicle_id/204035

here is another one.

[gemleeus]

oh, i forgot to say the 35th. car was a convertible!!

[82z96ss]

Gem,

Just my opinion but others may be selling their cars because they aren't going to be as rare as once thought!

And I think I was the first guy to go from a phase 2 to a phase 3. I actually own the phase 2 motor (with all the stampings); so I know all about the markings and badgings. I didn't need to read the post, although I did.



And Yes anyone can install any motor they ever wanted, but they would not be the dealer optioned documented cars the ZL1's were supposed to be.

[ZL1 driver]

Gem,

No one has a crystal ball to answer this question, but it will boil down to supply and demand. I don't think the "phase" of the '02 ZL1 will matter as much as whether or not there are more than 69 folks out there who want to own one. The pool of prospective buyers will increase as reviews of these cars continue to spread around the car enthusiast world. I found out about the '02 ZL1 because my Dad bought an Intimidator--that car impressed the hell out of me. The GMMG web site talked about the plan to build the ZL1. I was one of '69 folks lucky enough to be able to select the options. Was it worth nearly double the price of an unmodified Camaro? Absolutely! I am very comfortable that the value of these cars will continue to build. Even if it doesn't, I have a car that I will enjoy for years to come. To me, that's the true value of the car.

[NEW]

I¨ve got a HOT ROD Camaro, Phase II, i am thinking abt. going for the phase III package, i havent thougth abt. how it eventually do some thing with the value.

Does anyone have any experience with non ZL1 GMMG cars, being sold or traded with the Phase III option??

I know i will have one heck of a car, thats the most interesting part to me!!

NEW http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[02whiteragtop]

82z96ss,

I think that the ZL1's are rare and in great demand at this time, because the cars are selling for at least $20k over sticker. I can't speak for the ZL1 owners (especially since I'm not one) but most of them probably paid sticker price for their cars. It appears that they can clear $20k in profit after they resale them. How many of todays cars can you pay sticker price and resale for 30% profit or better!

I was told by Tom Henry that Matt or GM wanted these cars to be sold at sticker price and according to Tom he sold his at sticker. So at least Tom's customers have a greater ability to make more profit if they resale.

If I had bought a ZL1, I would not sale it for the profits. I would want to keep it. Evidently, some can't turn away from making money and possibly some can't afford what they bought.