302 HEMI Cross Ram on Ebay?

[Mark_C]

Is this the real deal?

Clickable Link to Auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2456634595&category=34 198&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1)

Description from Auction:

This Original GM Cross ram is one rare find. The Top and bottom are very special parts. Check out the part numbers on the Top. You will see the winters Foundry symbol and 2 part numbers. The first part number is 3941130 and the second is 3965549. The First number 3941130 is for 1968 - 1969. The second number is 3965549 HEMI applications. Most people don’t know about this Part number. The History is Chevy created 3 Hemi 302 test engines. The Hemi was based off the original 302 block modified ( push rod clearance) and Special Hemi pistons, Heads with a Cross ram 2X4 intake. These Parts were made in late 12/68. The Top was made to fit both standard and HEMI Bottoms. The HEMI engine conversion never came in to Production. This Top has to be 1 of a hand full made and it’s in like new condition. Now for the Bottom. The Very large raised Winters symbol plus a heat shield. There are no part numbers on the runners. This part is special from all others. It has a special GM heat shield riveted on to the bottom. I never removed the shield so I’m not sure of its date code. The bottom is for stock chevy heads and not the HEMI Head. It does have the provisions for stock heater hoses like those used on 1968 and 1969 bottoms. The Carbs are 2 production matched NOS Part numbers 3957859 4295 both are 0179. Included is the wide base air cleaner housing with filter and Chrome top. Throttle linkage and bracket for cabel,return spring bracket,Y block, alt bracket and NOS GM Gasket in not opened GM package

Is the cover alone worth as much as the rest of the manifold?

[MotownMadman]

A friend of mine has two of those three 302 Hemi engines on stands in his basement. Somehow he got the two a long time ago from Smokey Yunick who had got them from Chevrolet for testing and they never went back. I believe the third was put into a Daytona Yellow 69 Z28 built by Smokey, if I remember correctly the car still exists today in someones collection.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeC]

Smokey Yunick was working for Ford in 69

[Salvatore]

Doesn't Charlie own that car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Keith Tedford]

Weren't these more of a canted valve head like the big block Chevies, as opposed to the Chrysler Hemi valve train layout?

[JoeC]

Keith, I don’t know why some call it a Hemi head. They used to call them “semi hemi” head or porcupine head

[Mark_C]

This auction is for a cross ram setup with a manifold top from a hemi (or porcupine) head setup. Except for the part number the top appears to be the same as a "standard" crossram top. If a standard cross ram setup is going in the $7500 range it looks like the top alone is worth about 3K (without reaching the reserve).

Unless your one of the 3 guys that has a hemi cross ram base, and are missing the top, is this worth anything to anyone else?

[NCGuy68]

Al Maynard has...or had...a 302 Hemi motor installed in a silver 69 Z28. I last saw it sitting in Floyd Garrett's muscle car museum.

Pretty impressive piece.

Keith: Wayne Guinn's book "Camaro Untold Secrets" has a good section on the valve arrangement and design of the head. Interesting reading and some cool photos too.

[MotownMadman]

Joe,
As I said I was trying to work from memory, sometimes there are cloudy days, others are partly sunny. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But I do know from all the research I just went through on the 68 Team Shelby TA car that Smokey was bouncing back and forth and doing a bit of Moonlighting for Chev that Ford wasnt aware of. No matter who had Smokey, the other side always wanted him. I believe he was working for Chev with the Hemi 302 which took place as early as late 67 to early 68. But, I may have the info all screwed up as trying to keep up with Maynard while he is describing his tresure trove is like listening to a 33 record at 78 speed. He has two of these engines, if I remember correctly at least one was all aluminum. I need to call Al anyway, I will ask him about these engines and re-post.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I had the Yellow car but it is now in Canada. Gary Holub has a Silver Z with one that he has done up with Smokey Yunick lettering in a Yenko Motif. Al Maynard has one in a Silver Z and I think 2 other engines. There were about 6 complete engines and several more sets of heads that were developed by Chevrolet and sent to Smokey for evaluation. I think Al has more of that stuff than anybody.

[JoeC]

Check Smokey’s books. He wrote about these heads.
I would have to check but if I remember right he said 200 sets were cast to make them legal for SCCA. Chevy was nervous about the Ford tunnel port head 302 making more power so they started on the 302 Chevy porcupine head program. Most of the work done in 67-68. They were working on hi rpm large airflow to take advantage of the large cfm 2x4 cross ram intake in the little 302. SCCA banned multi carb intakes for 69 season so there was not much advantage to the big heads and Smokey and Traco and others kept making more and more power with the stock heads.
As far as Smokey working for Chevy and Ford in 69 – I don’t think so. He had a tight big money contract with Ford given to him by his buddy Bunkie K. who also flew the coop to Ford. GM pulled Smokey’s GMC Truck dealership away from him. They both didn’t last too long at Ford.
Read the books no TV no Video games until your homework is done http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[MotownMadman]

Hey Joe, I got some different books here you would have to read, the person who owned the Tunnel Port TA Mustang I found had worked for Ford and Team Shelby, he was also a thief who made off with whatever he could carry. I have thousands of pages of documents from Ford, inter office letters and memos, much of it having to do with the Ford racing program, Chevrolets high performance dealer programs and Fords lack of, attemps by Mickey Thompson to team with Ford in which in finally told Henry Jr to screw himself, and letters between Fords head of racing Jacque Passino to the powers that be indicating his displeasure with Smokey and Bunkie for playing both sides of the fence. So Joe, put away the high school books and dive into some college material.http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif If you have an interest in this type of historical reading I can run off some copies and put a packet together to mail to you. You would not believe the fifty page marketing study Ford had done targeting their muscle cars to teenagers for street racing! If the insurance companies only knew. Also, you would not believe the smoke and mirrors fiasco that was played out as far as Fords withdrawal from racing, what a bunch of BS between what the public was told and what really was the root causes. I have been sitting here going through stacks of documents at the same type you were also reading.....anybody ever hear of gearheads anoynomous? Where do I sign up? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JoeC]

Sounds interesting- I would love to read it. Do you have anything on Grady Davis? He was Don Yenko's Corvette racing buddy and VP at Gulf Oil. They sponsored Don and Dick Thompsons championship winning Corvettes until the blow up with Chevy in 1963. Gulf wanted to win LeMans. Chevy wouldn't play the game so Gulf took their money to Ford and made history.

[Jeff H]

This guy's auction lists the part # for the top as the hemi head crossram top, but the base looks to be an experimental base with the strange snowflake and no casting #. The base is just the normal 302 base so his auction is a little misleading in that it sounds like the intake will bolt onto a hemi head engine. He does say that it won't at the end of his description, but most people don't read that far. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I know someone that has a pair of the heads and a crossram top, but not a hemi crossram base.

[Unreal]

I dunno, If I were going to bid 10 large, or more, I think I'd read the whole ad, maybe half a dozen times.

[DZcode72]

I saw a silver HEMI Z at the Chicago vette fest. It had some goofy Hemi stickers on the car.

HEY YALL DOES THAT THING GOT HEMI !

[Born30YrsLate]

That is Gary Holub's car

[Roybalgene]

Hello gentleman looking for some traco heads 4 special vintage build that I'm doing if anybody has any leads I appreciate it you can reach me thanks!!
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