Opinions needed on Tow truck - Diesel or Gas?

[Pantera]

I have a Chaparall 36 ft gooseneck trailer to haul two cars in and back when I was racing, I was using a '84 Chev 1 ton 454 ci to pull it. Nowadays it is just getting too old and my cars are just too valuable to be broke down on the road with this old truck. I will be traveling much farther to show them than I was when I was SCCA racing in the midwest.

I do like the way it is set up with a sleeper and a 60 gal propane tank under it in the front of the bed. I was able to go almost all the way to Mineaplous with out having to stop for fuel from Tulsa OK. It pulls fine and yet I am not comfortable with it out on the road with my rig anymore. It has been setting for the last 10 years.

I have been thinking that a Dodge Diesel powered club cab 1 ton would be a good tow vehicle. I understand from a buddy here that works out of one that they get around 20 mpg and have great pulling power.


Does this sound like a good Idea or is there a better Idea out there?

the thought of a Dodge with the Diesel power sounds just like what I am going to need in the future. I never towed two cars at one time when I was racing but my trailer was a old Ford show car transport trailer so I know they will fit.

Any experience/suggestions would be appreciated.

Pantera
Tulsa OK. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[MosportGreen66]

I do not know much but saw this one during my regual searches. Low mile- NO reserve!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2461006026&category=13 487

-Dan

[69Chevelle L78Deluxe300]

I have done a lot of towing of my boat and trailer that weigh 10,000#. I live in Phoenix AZ so when I pull it out of the valley I climb up to 5-7000 ft altitude. When I bought the boat I had a 3/4 ton Chev Suburban with a 454 that was rated for 10,000# towing, but that must be in Nebraska, not anywhere with mountains. It would go about 15MPH up the hills and I got about 6MPG http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif. I put on headers with some minor improvement, then I put on a Paxton supercharger. It then had plenty of power but after about 30 seconds pulling up a hill it would overheat and I was back down to 10 MPH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. The most I could tow in AZ was about 4000#. I sold the Suburban and bought a new Ford 3/4 ton crew cab pickup with the Power Stroke Diesel, 5sp manual, and 4.10 gears. This is the only Ford http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I have ever owned, but it is the best tow vehicle I have ever driven! It will pull up the hills at 50MPH with the air conditioning on in 110 degree summer heat!! I even towed the boat to RI and back to AZ and averaged 12.8 MPG for the 6000 mile trip at 63MPH! I put the truck and boat on a truck scale and the rig weighed 17,100#! It averages just under 17 MPG when not towing. After my experiences, I would never get another gas vehicle to tow.
Jim

[Belair62]

I was going to say Power Stroke too....

[Chevy454]

Having gone the 454/Paxton route myself in a '91 Dually, but stepping up to CAT power, my vote is for a "newer" diesel. Any of the newer Cummins/Powerstroke/Duramax offerings would be ok. The new 6.0L & 8.1L gas engines from GM are TONS better than the old 5.7L & 7.4L gas engines of old, but they are still healthy eaters when it comes to fuel. And of course, stay away from the anemic Dodge or Ford V-10s.

As for the trailer, though, I hope you have 36ft of floor space, or else you're not gonna get 2 cars in it...

[budnate]

DIESEL for sure, I had a gas Ford before the Dodge I have now best rig I have ever owned to date! I drove both diesels last year and found the Ford needed way to much area to turn around in and rode like crap unloaded, the Dodge turned nice and can be stuffed into a parking stall with little effort and rode decent unloaded, both will get the job done no problem, but when I compared the two back to back one day and not siding on brand the Dodge was a pleasure to drive.

Bud.

[PATRICKJOINER]

pantera
for the trucks/trailers i own my, i have my drivers all in dodge one ton crew cab duallys with the cummings h. o. diesel & the 6 spd. manual tranny. i also had a '03 chevy 3/4 ton crew cab with the duramax diesel, good truck, but with the trailers they pull, 36 & 48' you really need a dually. these are great trucks (dodges), get about 12-15 mpg, loaded with 2 cars on the 48' rigs... i am going to sell one of these dodges, they are all '03 slt's... e mail or send me a pm if you are interested..

[gemleeus]

my boss and i went on a fishing trip to fla. on the way down, pulling a 20ft grady white boat w/ late 90's 454 dually. the boss got so tired of upshifting and downshifting, we stopped in a dealer in ala. and he bought a new 3500 diesel dually. at first the truck was a little herky-jerky with the boat, but once the trucks computer learned the boat was back there it was like driving any other truck, and sometimes almost forgetting the boat was back there. the truck pulled it very smoothly and would downshift automatically when coming to a stop making using the brakes hardly none at all. myself not having to much experience with pulling with a truck was very impressed. the truck pulled the boat effortlessly. the boat i know weighed over 12k. lbs. probably much more. 3500 dually, duramax w/ allison trans.

[Glenn J Coleman]

WOW, I have a similar set-up and the exact same problems. An 83 1 ton Chevy dually with a tired 454 (nagging exhaust manifold leak) pulling an 86 42ft Chapparel. With both cars in I think I'm loaded at 13,000 lb.s I have considered a 454 HO crate package from GM Performance or just rebuilding the stock motor into a stump pulling tq. monster. But with interest rates in the dirt, you can sure make a case for driving home a new truck. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Please post how you resolved your situation.

[Chevy454]

Glenn:

As I mentioned above, I've been in your shoes. We had a '91 Chevrolet 3500 crew cab with a 454/auto/4.10. At that time we had a 44ft gooseneck that weighed 9K pounds empty. After we munched the 4L80E a couple of times, we upgraded to a special heavy duty 4-speed manual with a gear splitter attached that Moparts had in his shop. This helped a lot, but I wanted more so on went a Paxton and a full dual exhaust running through headers. While it ran like a scalded ape, it necessitated a 110gal. auxillary tank in the bed of the truck in addition to the dual 20gal. saddle tanks. MAJOR gas hog. We then upgraded to our crew cab TopKick with the 3116 CAT diesel and haven't looked back. I will NEVER go back to a gas rig to tow with.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Good info, keep it coming, many of us are looking at this same debate - somebody factor 'the wife' factor for me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't know if mine will agree to a crew/dually/diesel! I need to bring my car to the one and only SuperCar Reunion and race http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JChlupsa]

[ QUOTE ]
I need to bring my car to the one and only SuperCar Reunion and race http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn now THAT sounds GOOD

[Chevy454]

M:

Let your WIFE get behind the wheel of one...I couldn't keep my wife out of my dually, and I caught heck for selling it! I still get grief about that...

[COPO PETE]

I too am looking at purchasing real soon. What's the differnece in braking with a 3/4 ton vs a 1 ton????? A dually would be nice, but Im thinking just a crew cab chev with the Duramax. Are they really getting about 17 mph just driving around without a trailer on????
Peter

[hvychev]

[ QUOTE ]
I need to bring my car to the one and only SuperCar Reunion and race


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmm.....now thats an idea.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[NWYENKO]

we towed our Deuce to the reunion (4200 miles round trip), averaged 12.5 mpg at 65 miles per hour with our 2002 2500 HD Duramax Crewcab. Absolutely loved the truck. Traded it in on a new 2004 2500 HD Duramax. I drive it to work daily and get 15mpg, Would rather drive it than the wife's 2002 Acura 3.2TLType S.. The Duramax gets about 3-4mpg better than the 6 litre. Jim

[Pantera]

It is a old Ford show car hauler and the front car is ramped up into the nose of the gooseneck area. It is a 7 1/2 ft roof height too. I have a feeling that I will wind up springing for a whole new rig both trailer and truck. There is always someone that has a nice used one for sale. I can always sell mine. Heck it is a '78 model. Chapparall has been out of business for a few years now I beleive. I don't know why but I always loved the look of their trailers. But they are sure heavy!

[Pantera]

Thanks, that is my feeling on the Dodge over the Ford. I have never had good luck with Fords and don't know why. A buddy of mine has a 60k mi. 2001 Dodge, that I can get for $25k and it has the diesel and four doors. He does alum siding in the area and has 4 of them with little or no problems.

It is good to hear from all on here about it though. Thanks

[Pantera]

That sounds like a plan to me. will do.

[Pantera]

My truck is a dually 454 with TH-400 auto and a Chaprall sleeper on the back window. It was used by a SCCA vette racer and we took it to the west coast one time and he had a 3 wheel 42 chapparall and it weighed 25,600 according to Arizona when we went through there. That was with only one 3,300 lb corvette and some spare motors and such. Have you ever weighed your rig? That seems too light to me.

[Pantera]

My buddy reports that he gets about 20mpg with his Dodge dually Diesel. I wonder if he is pulling my leg?

[Enoch]

I have a 2000 Dodge quad cab Diesel 6wd. Dually. (Whew-say that 10 times fast) 5 Sp. with 4:10 gears. At 65 mph it's tack'in 2000 rpm and getting 18-21 mpg at 75 it's tack'in 2400 rpm and mpg is down to 15-16. I would suggest getting 3:54 gears as there is plenty of power and that would give you a better cruising rpm. I have 60,000 miles on her and would buy it again. I would prefer an auto on the next on. Hope this info helps. Rich. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Pantera]

Thanks Rich that confirms what my buddy told me about his Dodge. I am with you about the auto but if I could get the 3:70 rear that would be my choice. Of course with a auto the 3:54 would be just fine.

I know that having the extra large 80 gal propane tank on my chev allowed me to buy gas where it was at a good price most of the time. I could go almost 700 mi on what was on board. I can see that holding the speed down would help the mileage on a diesel.

Pantera

[Chevy454]

A couple of things to consider...

You need to be careful when choosing your rear gear ratio...not only from a "power" or "mileage" standpoint, but more importantly from a "GVW" standpoint. If I'm not mistaken you loose a thousand pounds or more going from 4.10s to 3.54s on the Dodge. I hadn't thought much about it until talking to one of my buddies who tows his race car with a Dodge. If you're looking at towing a 2-car trailer with a 1-ton, then every little bit of GVW is gonna be CRITICAL, as you're probably gonna be close, if not over, your legal GVW.

As for the automatics, you'll LOSE power with the autos, especially on the Dodges. For their auto tranny to live behind the diesel(s), they had to detune them, thus dropping power/torque...yuck. And, IMO a standard will outpull an auto any day of the week. I would stay away from an auto, unless going with an Allison auto as in the newer GMC/Chevrolet offerings.

[toner]

[ QUOTE ]
My buddy reports that he gets about 20mpg with his Dodge dually Diesel. I wonder if he is pulling my leg?

[/ QUOTE ]

My brother has a 96 dodge 1 ton dually diesel and gets 18mpg. Last summer he bought another one only it's a 01 with 4 wheel drive, still gets 17mpg running empty. My wifes' 03 2 wheel drive blazer only gets 17mpg http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif (but that could be the way she drives it) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

[VETTEGUY]

When it comes to towing a sizable trailer-you can't have to much power or be too safe. I saw a guy with a two car stacker
trailer pulled with a 3/4 ton Ford. I believe this is illegal
but I know that it is stupid. Don't overlook trucks like the
Freightliner FL60 (Sportchassis) These trucks (classified as heavy duty pickups) are sold for the most part to folks
pulling travel trailers. Used ones are not that expensive.
Not real practical for daily use, but if your main use
is towing, I would recommend one. Try RVTruck.com

[Mr70]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need to bring my car to the one and only SuperCar Reunion and race.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmm.....now thats an idea.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....Yes that is. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Chevy454]

The only downside to the FL60 route is your GVCW. According to the Federal DOT laws, anything 26,001 pounds and over requires a CDL. And, those FL60s are quite a bit heavier than your average 1-ton dually, as I found out with my TopKick. It would be easy to have a 2-car trailer in the 16,000 pound range loaded (more than likely it will be more), which means you're truck had better be 10,000 or less.

I unfortunately had to find all of this out the hard way, which sucks, because the Medium Duty trucks are far safer to tow with than the 1-ton offerings when you start getting into some decent weights.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

We never did factor in the price of fuel for this discussion.

[Pantera]

Now that I have a Diesel I can say that the extra price is sure worth it. I bought a 97 Dodge 1 ton with the cummings and it sure has the passing power even with a car on a trailer behind it. Almost like it was not there. My old 454 chev dually just can't start to run with it. Passing power is outstanding.

[BARN FIND]

http://trucktrend.com/roadtests/ultimate/163_0310_intl_1_l.jpg

<font color="red"> </font> BIG RED http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[musclcar]

we tow a 45' 3 axle 5th wheel race car trailer around with a 2003 dodge 3500 crewcab dually diesel.with the trailer fully loaded down we average about 15-17mpg and will pull both so. calif grades " cajon pass &amp; grapevine" with ease at about 55mph.this dodge 3500 is just awesome anyway you think about it.the cummins 5 valve 6cyl motor is just unbelievable it's got so much torque it's unreal. if you are looking for a diesel truck go with that but stay away from the ford powerstrokes http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif they have alot of problems.i'm a medium duty/hvy duty diesel mechanic and have done alot of service calls on powerstroke equipped trucks.they have computer problem and the biggest problem is the oiling system .they are known to seize wrist pins and there injectors are run off oil pressure. have you seen the cummins connecting rods they're "huge" and dwarf both the duramax and powerstroke.just go to the turbo diesel registery and find out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[musclcar]

[ QUOTE ]
The only downside to the FL60 route is your GVCW. According to the Federal DOT laws, anything 26,001 pounds and over requires a CDL. And, those FL60s are quite a bit heavier than your average 1-ton dually, as I found out with my TopKick. It would be easy to have a 2-car trailer in the 16,000 pound range loaded (more than likely it will be more), which means you're truck had better be 10,000 or less.I unfortunately had to find all of this out the hard way, which sucks, because the Medium Duty trucks are far safer to tow with than the 1-ton offerings when you start getting into some decent weights.

[/ QUOTE ] like i said in my previous post i'm a med-duty/hvy-duty diesel mechanic and BIT inspector . your right about the CDL being required for 26,001lbs and more. a freightliner FL60 is rated @ 18,500 gvwr and the FL70 is rated @ 25,999lbs the newer freightliner M2 is a medium duty truck rated @ 25,999lbs.the same goes for the international 4700 rated @ 25,999lbs and the international 4900 is rated as a CDL vehicle because it falls into the 26,001lbs category. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[CamarosRus]

I'd be very interested to hear misc comments from those with "smaller" 22-24' Two Axle trailers...regarding there tow vechicles, modifications, and fuel milage....
Thanks, Chuck S

[Pantera]

I did a great deal of checking around before deciding to go with the Dodge Diesel. I have a 36' Chapparal gooseneck trailer that we used to pull with a 454 Chev dually. it was not too bad on level ground, but when we hit the hills the speed would drop quite a bit.

On a trip to Calif one time, I will never forget the dam thing was down to 32 mph with my foot on the floor on one of those looooong up grades going over the rockies. I had to stop 3 times and let it cool down because I was afraid it would damage something.

This Dodge has twice the low end power the Chev had. Mileage is about twice what I would get with the Chev.

The only mistake I made was not getting a 2001 or newer with the extra valves and power. Mine is a '97 and it is good but I have drove the newer ones and they are just a little bit better. They also offer a 6 speed with them.

I think the Cummings is one of the best motors you can get in this size truck. I have yet to find anyone that has had a major failure with one of these motors and you can find them with 2 hundred and 3 hundred thousand miles on them that have had nothing but the top end freshened up.

I must echo what has been warned against the Ford Diesel's. I encountered too many that had had problems with them. Even when they were almost new.

You can't afford to be broke down on the road with a load behind you. I think most that have one of these trucks will echo how good they are?

Pantera

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I did quite a bit of research before I bought a new truck to pull my Yenko to SCR7. I decided on a Chevy Silverado, 2500HD, 6.0litre gas, crew cab, 4WD, tow package, etc.... all the goodies. I pull a 24foot Haulmark Elite II Race Trailer which weighs about 4800lbs, and the Deuce at around 3500lbs, for a combined weight of around 8500lbs with me and some junk. This truck is rated to pull 10,200lbs with the dist hitch.

Bottom line: I love this truck! It pulls just like my 'advisors' told me it would over the steep Apalachians - especially the two biggies in WV. This vehicle is a compromise of course, it has to serve as the 'mini-van' for the family, the hauler for the home projects, the trips up steep, washed out, logging roads for deer hunting, and tow vehicle.

So far, excellent.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[djunod]

Having a vehicle that more then 2 people can be comfortable in during a long trip is a very good thing. Having enough room for at least one person to completely lay down to sleep while the other drives, is essential in my book.

After my last trip with the truck &amp; trailer (from Augusta GA to Boston MA &amp; back), I have decided to probably try getting a SUV that can tow the weight.

[Chevy454]

dj: Our '01 4x4 3/4 ton Suburban (496/auto) seats 7 (has captains chairs) and is rated to pull a 12k pound trailer...that thing is a HOSS! Talk about run...man, with/without the trailer you can pass anything on the road, except a gas station!