67 B-M Camaro

[JChlupsa]

http://img33.photobucket.com/albums/v99/HawaiianCamaro/Magazine%20articles/BM_67_Camaro.jpg

http://img33.photobucket.com/albums/v99/HawaiianCamaro/Magazine%20articles/BM_67_Camaro_2.jpg

[427TJ]

Note that it's a factory 396 car (emblem) and not a converted 350 car. Looks like Joel Rosen himself leaning in the passenger door. Any guesses as to how much his Motion T-shirt would fetch on eBay today? Think: Feeding frenzy.

Skinny Cragars rule.

[berger]

its got a 327 gas cap, non ss.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[427TJ]

Yet they called it an "SS 427." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[JChlupsa]

The first thing that was taken off cars back then by collectors (5 fingered kind) were the SS Gas Caps. Would like to see what the cowl tag on this car read to be sure. Or depending on the build date, did all SS's receive the SS cap??

[427TJ]

My guess was that it was either a L-35 or L-78 car to begin with. I think the front fender SS emblems have been removed from this car too, perhaps they went in the parts bin along with the gas cap. They probably just removed the SS emblems from the car when they modified it for strip use. No wait--perhaps it was a rare '67 COPO with the big-block but no SS package! Just kidding. Note the stinger hood.

[Supercar_Kid]

My guess would be that it's a base Camaro, and those are actually 427 flags from an Impala added to advertise the engine conversion. The lack of a bumblebee stripe supports the non-SS theory as well. Guess it doesn't make much difference what was now. Cool car either way.

[berger]

I think you nailed it kid, easily could be a z28 w/ impala emblem and stripe delete..- - http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Supercar_Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you nailed it kid, easily could be a z28 w/ impala emblem and stripe delete..- - http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ] That doesn't make much sense either. Let's take an already high ticket car and tear it to pieces, toss this 302 in the corner of the shop and plop this 427 between the fenderwells and go racing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Let's keep in mind that Joel Rosen built hi-performance cars because he made $$$ doing it. It just doesn't make sense making an expensive car even more expensive by removing the drivetrain that made it what it is in the first place. '67 Z/28's were very rare, already high performance cars that sold themselves...while lowly 327 or even 6 cyl cars sat on Baldwin's lot ripe for the picking, and they were cheap too. Add a $5-600 L-88 crate and it's off to the races. Joel was no dummy, my money's still on it being a regular old small block car at best. Any figures on stripe delete '67 Z's? Of 602 I'd guess about 15-20 at best, any way you figure the odds are certainly against this car being one of those. Just my 2 cents. Wish I was around back then to see for myself. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

But what about the disc brakes, 12 bolt, 4 speed, HD cooling, springs, etc that go along with the SS and Z28 cars? You are right Joel is smart and probably realized the cost and labor to add these parts outweighed the cost of ordering the car that way new.

Jason

[Supercar_Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
But what about the disc brakes, 12 bolt, 4 speed, HD cooling, springs, etc that go along with the SS and Z28 cars?

[/ QUOTE ]
According to the Camaro Research Group, the 12 bolt rear was standard on 1967-8 L30/M20 cars from approximately Dec 1966 through the end of the 1968 model year. Also, SS models didn't come standard with disc brakes in 67 or even power assisted drum brakes for that matter. Yes it's true the Z/28 package included power discs in front, but back then PDBs weren't fully accepted as being a must have performance option, especially among drag racers only concerned with stopping at the big end. Heck, most guys would have told you take the 2nd turn of road and save your money for speed parts, or you could have simply picked a PDB optioned 327 to begin with. Also, all 67 models used mono leaf springs in the rear, while there were undoubtedly different rates depending on which options the car came with (engine, A/C, etc.) I doubt it made much difference once Joel & Co. put the "Super Bite" goodies in place. And from a drag racing standpoint, there wouldn't really be a downside to having the lower rate springs in the front, as they'd let the heavy big block sit low until you nailed it on the line, transferring the weight to the rear and firmly planting the slicks on the 4.10-4.88 geared rearend set up, kinda like 90/10 drag shocks. While I'm no old time drag racer, I think it makes a lot more sense to start with a much cheaper L30/M20 car and go from there, rather than start with an SS or Z/28 car and try to justify the price difference. Only Joel knows for sure. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[JChlupsa]

Redid the article so its easier to read

[resto4u]

supercar kid, there is one known special order paint 67 z28. It is hugger orange, and i know of no stripe delete 67 z28's. But i was also recently told 67 z28's were also built in antwerp, belgium. Roger

[berger]

I'm just having trouble figuring out the seats in that thing, are they aftermarket or what..certainly not 67standard or deluxe ones I have???

[427TJ]

Maybe they're Corvette seats? No, perhaps they're ultra-rare Phase III seats! Yeah, that's it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

I think we're going to have to classify this car as a real rarity. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Instead of starting with a factory 396 Camaro (clearly too expensive), Motion went with the lo-buck 327 car to save money and the hassle of removing the SS gas cap and fender SS emblems. Then they swapped in a complete driveline front to back (cheaper than just swapping a 396 for a 427), put "Impala" 427 emblems on it and went racing. They must have known that in 37 years there'd be guys analyzing photos of the car as if it were the Zapruder* film. "Frame 134 clearly shows the emblems as having come from a '66 Impala." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

(*Abraham Zapruder was the fellow who got JFK's assasination on film.) (JFK was John F. Kennedy.) (He was the president from 1960-63.) (Yes, of the United States.)

Okay, okay, I'm just kidding around--not trying to "flame" anyone. Someone on this forum must be in contact with Mr. Rosen. Perhaps he can be asked about this "mystery" Camaro. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Oh, and Oswald acted alone. (In my opinion.)

[Supercar_Kid]

Roger, that's certainly odd. I've heard of special order Hugger Orange cars for '68...but never in '67. Are you saying the car is HO now, or it was delievered new that way? I've never heard of any reference whatsoever to HO prior to the '68 model year, does anyone know of any other pre-68 cars in HO?

[Mr70]

Would Omaha Orange count?

[camarojoe]

Last I checked, Hugger Orange and Omaha Orange were 2 totally different paint colors.

[NEW]

Maybe off topic but for abt. 5-6 years ago, someone here in norway bougth a 67 Camaro, special ordered paint, omaha orange, BB 325 HP, with TH400, and 12 bolt posi,

All original paint, it came out of California i think. With full documentation.

NEW

[JChlupsa]

I would be VERY interested in the VIN and Cowl Tag info on that car esp if it has a Fleet order code on it. only other Omaha Orange Camaro I know of is the Dana of Kevin S.

[JChlupsa]

This might be ture but GM did have an Orange in their truck colors for 67 and that could have been a special order paint.

http://autocolorlibrary.com/cgi-bin/search/searchpic.pl?1967-chevrolettruck-pg01.jpg

[JChlupsa]

This might be true but GM did have an Orange in their truck colors for 67 and that could have been a special order paint.

http://autocolorlibrary.com/cgi-bin/search/searchpic.pl?1967-chevrolettruck-pg01.jpg

Also notice that the color used for the School busses which some call Omaha Orange is called School Bus Chrome!!!

[Supercar_Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of starting with a factory 396 Camaro (clearly too expensive), Motion went with the lo-buck 327 car to save money and the hassle of removing the SS gas cap and fender SS emblems. Then they swapped in a complete driveline front to back (cheaper than just swapping a 396 for a 427), put "Impala" 427 emblems on it and went racing.

[/ QUOTE ] Or...let's pay extra money for an SS396 car, yank the 396 entirely, unless we really spend the money and go for an L-78 car where we can at least save the heads, intake and carb. Then let's remove all signs of it being an SS, yank the fender badges, sand off the bumblebee stripe, paint the tail light panel body color, pitch the gas cap and replace it with a standard unit, replace the 396 flags with 427 ones, drop a 427 short block in it, bolt all the old top end stuff back in and then call it an "SS427." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif It just doesn't make any sense, and they hardly had to swap the "complete driveline" IMO. 12 bolt was already there, M20 4-speed was there, and the 427 would plop right down in there on the small block frame mounts (it would sit a smidge higher but I doubt they'd care) and with the stock heater box/core in place assuming they even hooked the heater back up in a drag car. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and speculation is all we have at this point, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why this car was anything but an L30/M20 car at best when it left the lot. Maybe there was an SS396 car there that day, but it must have been hiding behind the grassy knoll. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[hvychev]

LOL! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well said Kid!

[JoeG]

I went behind the Grassy Knoll and asked Joel for some info on the car since it intrigued some folks---"The car was originally a gold color they painted it white and he says
" He thinks it was a 396"-----Thanks Joel http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Zedder]

The special order paint '67 Z was Tangier Orange and it is alive and well...

[427TJ]

"I went behind the Grassy Knoll and asked Joel for some info on the car since it intrigued some folks---"The car was originally a gold color they painted it white and he says
" He thinks it was a 396"-----Thanks Joel"

Well said Mr. Rosen.

But Joel Rosen must be wrong too. Hey Kid, why don't you tell your argument to him? If you're nice to him maybe he'll let you pose for a picture!

I think it's common knowledge that Motion would start with new L-78* cars, remove the 396 and sell it over the counter, then complete the 427 conversion to Phase I, II, or III standards. At least that's what I've read in several magazines from those days. BUT, I could be wrong.

*Early 1967 Camaro SS "Supercar" conversions were made from 350 cars before the 396 became available.

[Supercar_Kid]

I wasn't arguing how Joel built his street cars. The car in question was obviously built for strip use. Joel didn't typically repaint entire cars or strip them of their SS markings either, adding badges happened alot more than removing them. You can see the intake is painted entirely black also, not something you see on a street Motion car. I'd be curious as to what Joel's explaination is for it's lack of SS fender emblems, and why he'd replace an SS gas cap with a non-SS version on a car that was to be dubbed an SS-427? I won't argue with the guy who built these cars, but he did say "thinks." Also, just for conversation's sake..the fender flags looks too far forward, not centered below the Camaro emblem, and a bit crooked as well. Maybe I'm seeing things. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[LVCamaro]

Omaha Orange was GMC truck color.

[camarojoe]

...And hugger orange wasnt offered at all until 68.

[Seattle Sam]

Wasn't hugger a 69 color, not available in 68? I thought the story on the Dana car was the owner wanted an orange car and the Omaha Orange ("a truck color") was the only orange available.

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/cgi-bin/emAlbum.cgi?c=show_thumbs;p=Supercars/1968%20Dana%20RS-SS%20Camaro%20427

-Sam

[camarojoe]

Yes, hugger orange was to be a 69 model year color, however, it was used in the 68 calender year. Definitely not in 67 though.

[supercomp 8.90]

IVE ALSO HEARD THAT SOME OF THE EARLY CARS WERE SS-350 CARS,ALSO THE EMBLEM WITH THE FLAGS LOOKS A LITTLE UN-EVEN.I HAVE AN OLD CARS MAG PACKED AWAY SOMEWHERE THAT SAID THEY DID USE SMALL BLOCK CARS IN THE EARLY GOING. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[MotownMadman]

Disc brakes can be a plus or minus in serious drag racing. Many have special ordered a disc brake car with drum brakes as the disc had a constant friction factor from the pads having tension on the rotor, while the drum could run completely without friction. May not sound like much but when you are after hundreds of a second everything counts.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charles]

The seats which were out of a MG weighed 10 pounds.

[Charles]

I think this 1967 Camaro was orig. a medium blue color. It was much modified with everything stripped or burned off like undercoating etc. forward of the centerline of the car. The front springs were changed; different type on each side. The floor pan was chopped up and the rear suspension was modified to handle the torque. One of the early motors blew up and was replaced. The transmission was also modified with an extra shifter... It was not pretty but it worked!

[Charles]

Supercar Kid had the right idea but everyone has missed the mark on this "SS-427" Camaro. This Camaro was built to compete in the A/MP class where the weight was 3075 to 3150 pounds with fuel and driver. All unnecessary weight was removed including the radio, heater, wiring looms and hoses. The front springs were replaced with the left being from an air conditioned 396 Camaro and the right from a standard 327 Camaro. The standard six-cylinder engine that the Camaro was built with was replaced by an over the counter stock block L-88. The aluminum heads received some attention as did the 850 cfm carb but it was basically a stock motor with a service package chain drive camshaft. A fiberglass "stinger" hood scoop was attached to the stock steel hood. The rear suspension was modified along with the transmission/clutch combination. 7 inch slicks were used but with all that power up front it did not survive long. After less than 20 passes at the strip the power tore up the rear suspension resulting in damage to the rear fenders and the Camaro almost flipping. The bodywork was repaired and the Camaro was painted white. The rear suspension was beefed up and transmission problems were addressed. In the fall of 1967 the now white Camaro returned to the track. This Camaro was only used for one season as it was replaced by a 1968 Camaro with a 466 big block.

[espehal]

I have a 1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 with paint code 0-0. Its a spesial order paint with Ohama Orange. This car is in Norway.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MotownMadman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Disc brakes can be a plus or minus in serious drag racing. Many have special ordered a disc brake car with drum brakes as the disc had a constant friction factor from the pads having tension on the rotor, while the drum could run completely without friction. May not sound like much but when you are after hundreds of a second everything counts.
Motown &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt; </div></div>

2 of my 67 Z/28s and my L-78 Indy all had the disc brakes replaced with drums at some point in thier drag racing careers. The original owner of my 67 Z dragcar told me he gained .04 seconds by switching to drums.

[COPO]

For the most part, the BM cars did in fact start out as factory hi-horse cars. Typiclly the L-78 short block was pulled and then re-sold through the Baldwin Chevrolet parts department. This kept the overall build cost of the cars low and made the swap to a 427 relatively easy. I recall reading some articles stating this and my own actual experience on 67, 68, and 69 BM cars that I have owned were they all started as original SS L-78 cars.

[olredalert]

-----I agree, and to add to this, the L78 shortblock or complete engine (whichever) had a lot more value and desirability than, say, 396/325. Those L78s probably moved thru the parts department pretty quickly.......Bill S

[Martyn L. Schorr]

You are correct. Except for the first '67 B-M Camaro blue demo which had a small-block, cars were ordered with 396/375 engines. The takeout engines were just about always pre-sold by Baldwin Chevrolet! Super easy motors to sell.
Marty