1966 Baldwin Chevelle Motion??

[pibohmark]

Hi Guys, I am new to the board and need a little help. I recently went to an estate auction and purchased a pretty nice 1966 Chevelle SS with 38,500 miles. I bought the car from the family of the original owner and there are quite a few receipts from the maintenance of the car thru its life and the receipts and their dates seem to lend credibility to the actual mileage.

The car has the original window sticker from Baldwin Chevrolet and a rather curious receipt from the same dealer for the installation of a 427 engine at the time of purchase. I have ran the numbers on the engine and it does match up to the correct year (1966) motor. The car has 427 emblems where the 396 should be.

There is also a receipt for the sale of the original 396 engine several months later to another individual. The car is straight and appears to be all original except the washer bottle is missing.

What I am looking for is some opinions as to weather or not I am better off doing a frame off and putting the 396 back in or leaving it as a 427. From the receipts and the documentation that goes along with it, the car and the engine were ordered from GM on the same dates. The engine appears to have arrived 3 weeks prior to the car and the service order is date three days after the delivery date of the car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Pantera]

I am sure that you will get lots of answers to this but I want to make one point. You say put the 396 back in it. That woudld be great only if you still have the actual 396 motor that came out it! Otherwise I think the value of it is higher with the 427 in it.

It may not be a "Motion" built car but it is documented and that is worth a lot in the collector car world. some day there will be a higher value on Survior unrestorded cars than frame offs.

Only you, can be the judge of what condition it actually is in. Sounds like you have a neat piece of history there. Give it a good home.

Good Luck which ever way you go....
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[COPO]

I don't believe there are any Baldwin Motion cars prior to 1967, but if you have the paperwork you described, you can post it and go from there.

[427TJ]

Here's a photo from Marty Schorr's 1982 book "Chevrolet, The Performance Years." It is a period photo of a Motion-prepped '66 Chevelle SS.

The photo caption states:

"Motion Performance built a limited run of both 396 and 427 solid-lifter, four-speed '66 Chevelle SS models with prototype Chevrolet cowl induction plumbing as used on NASCAR cars."

[sixtiesmuscle]

First, will you please fill in your profile info. You have come to the right place, assuming what you have posted is accurate.

Pantera, why do you say it's not a Motion built car? If there really is an order/receipt from Baldwin Chevy, showing delivery of the car with the 427 when new, I would think that's just what he has.

Now, I'm a skeptic too because this story is almost too good to be true, but, let's see what our new friend posts to verify the story.

[JoeG]

Charlie Masons '67 427 Chevelle should be the first one sold thru Baldwin--,but Motion was still a performance shop before Baldwin ,in BED/STY--(Pitkin ave. I think)--Could be a early Motion conversion ---if he has the docs.

[pibohmark]

Please let me clarify a point, the original invoice does not show it to be a 427 engine. The engine was installed at the dealer at the time of delivery. I cannot find anything either on the car or the paperwork that says Motion. What should I be looking for? Thanks

[Mr70]

It sounds like a Magnificent Find.
I don't hear Motion mentioned anywhere in the Paperwork,it was ordered new from Baldwin Chevrolet,then a 427 transplant done at Baldwin Chevrolet it sounds like.Even if thats the case,I would leave that 427 engine in that Chevelle,especially with the docs to substantiate it.
Just out of Curiosity,do you know where the Original 396 Engine it was born with is at today,seeing as you said it was sold to another later on?
What paint color/interior color and options are on this Car when delivered new,such as tach.,Trans & rear ratio,does it have a Cowl Plen.etc.?
Can you post some Pictures for us..WELCOME! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[pibohmark]

I only have the doc showing that the engine was sold back in 1966. No idea where that individual is nor the engine.

The car is Marina Blue with blue interior, 4 speed but I am not sure of the ratio. Still learning about the car. It has a factory tach that reads up to 7000 RPM, another thing I have noticed in my research is that some tachs go to 6000 and some 7000. Any ideas why?

The engine appears to have been dressed up with valve covers and breather and a few extras and is not in the original from factory appearance. The hood has the lovers but is not cowl induction. Wheels and tires are not original.

[Astock]

The value or rarity is the 427 installed by Baldwin. Who cares about the 396?

[Pantera]

I was refering to the post he made that shows it was done by Baldwin Chev thenselves and not by Motion or Joel. Otherwise I would say it sure sounds like a BM car. So far it only sounds like a "B" car... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[GM-26]

When you get a chance, post the Baldwin Chevrolet window sticker and the invoice for the engine change. Many of us are very curious.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Although I am not an "expert" on Baldwin Motion cars, it is my understanding that one could order the 427 conversion at Baldwin, and, the work was done at Motion. Doesn't that make it a Baldwin Motion car?

[JoeG]

You are right ,but the car from Baldwin would be invoiced new as a 427 --conversion by Motion =B/M car
ex.-window sticker on the Otis C./Camaro=PhaseIII SS427 Camaro

See how the car was invoiced and label it accordingly--Great car if documented
The only expert on Motion would be Motion http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[pibohmark]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I have contracted the have the car refinished and based on the reccomendation of a few who have looked at it will not be doing a frame off as the underside is very nice.

I will post some pics as I go along. Does anyone know if the tach that reads 7000 as opposed to some I have seen that only go to 6000 is the correct one? They look identical other than the 7000 limit. Thanks for all of your help.

[COPO]

What happenned to posting the paperwork on the car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[JoeG]

[ QUOTE ]
What happenned to posting the paperwork on the car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

DITTO-----

[pibohmark]

Hello, I would be happy to post the invoices that I have just need some time to get these scanned and done. If anyone has the answer to the tach question, please let me know. Thanks

[JoeG]

OK---------YOU would need a 7K TACH-for solid lifter engine
redline shift/point-Where is the red line indicated on your tach? 5500--6500?
Is it a GM--Knee/knocker tach or in dash mounted tach

[JoeG]

Should look like this (L-78)---- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/85602-chevtach.jpg

[SuperNovaSS]

Any luck on the scan of the paperwork? I getting anxious.


Jason

[JoeG]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif--Ditto

[JoeG]

This reminds me of that Bill Murray movie "Ground Hogs Day"--I've been here before http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr70]

This reminds me of that Bill Murray movie "Ground Hogs Day"--I've been here before http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JoeG]

[ QUOTE ]
Should look like this (L-78)---- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/85602-chevtach.jpg

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[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
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Should look like this (L-78)---- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/85602-chevtach.jpg

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[/ QUOTE ]------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif------------ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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[/ QUOTE ]------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif------------ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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[/ QUOTE ]------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif------------ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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[/ QUOTE ]------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif------------ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

To answer your question in simple form.. three different versions of the Knee-knocker tach to correspond to the three different HP engines available in the 66 SS. The BASE engine was a 396/325hp and if you checked off the option for the GAUGE PKG. (which included the gauges in the dash), you received the KK Tach as part of it, but you could order the KK Tach without the Gauge Pkg. They were sep. RPO's, So, Base engine got the 6000RPM tach, Optional engine was the 396/360hp engine and this bumped the KK tach to 7000 Rpms and the redline was also higher.. and then later in the production year, they offered the 396/375hp engine and the tach was also a 7000 RPM, but the redline was higher than the 360hp version.

Many a 66 SS was delivered to a dealer and got the 427 swap the same day, thus creating the illusion many have, that some 66's came from the factory with a 427! NOT, didn't happen, just dealer swaps and it was not limited to Baldwin.

Nice car, make sure you take MANY Digital pics of this car before anyone starts restoring it.

Mike Crown

[JoeG]

Thanks for the additional info Mike, my old '66 SS 396/360 had the 7k tach,but I was just curious to see how the car was invoiced/window sticker 396/427----Really just waiting on pibohmark to scan some photos --Do you know the car?------ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know the car

[/ QUOTE ]

No, never heard of the car till this MYSTERIOUS post. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JoeG]

I e-mailed pibohmark ---asked him to re-join the party--no reply yet

[GMC_Typhoon]

I googled his email address and came up with this (http://www.putinbayhotel.com/contact.htm)

[pibohmark]

Yes, that's me! I will post some photos as soon as I get time to fly over to the gentleman who is repainting the car. As you can see from the previous post and the website, I own resorts on an island in Ohio and this is our busy season. I will get you some PICS posted but more than likely it will be after Labor Day weekend when things start to slow down.

The car is located now in Columbus Grove Ohio being pained. If any of you live anywhere near there I would appreciate anyone who can look at the car with me. it is near Bluffton airport in Ohio. I will be flying in there in the next 2 weeks and if you are near Ohio, I would fly in and pick you up. Thanks!

[JoeG]

Anybody hear from pibohmark----I sent an e-mail couple of days ago----------------