69 L78 Tranny question

[Don_Lightfoot]

This is a question that came up months ago on another board with no definitive answer and for some reason I just thought of it again. This is relative to Chevelles. Was the base "Special Three Speed Manual" the standard tranny for a 69 L78 Chevelle? It was standard for the base L35 and optional L34. I have one source book (not the most reliable) that says the 3 speed was still the base tranny on the L78 Camaro and it makes sense it would be for the Chevelle as well. Can't say I've ever seen one first hand, but feel it was.

Appreciate any input.

[Don_Lightfoot]

Anybody have an opinion on this???????

[Chevy454]

Just an uninformed guess here, but I would have thought the M-20 would have been the base manual tranny behind the L-78 for the Camaro/Chevelle/Nova...

[Pantera]

I always thought you ordered them the way you wanted them. if you goofed and forgot to check off the 4 speed you got a std 3 on the tree. I saw a '62 409 collum shift car one time.

[WILMASBOYL78]

I've never seen a 3spd behind a high horse motor. Engine letter codes in Colvins book show 3spd or 4spd as the same code for most cars. Suppose anything was possible from the General in those days. But??? anyone who had the savvy to order an L78 motor wouldn't get a 3spd!! just my thoughts. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Anyone have an original 3spd 375hp car??

[JoeG]

I'M just reading out of a book---the M13(Special three-speed manual trans) was the transmission you would recieve if you were unfortunate not to have checked off a trans option .

[rpoz11]

If I remember correctly, Jeff Leonard's Pace Car was originally a column shift 3-speed 300HP/350 car! I saw this waaaaay back when he bought the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JRSully]

Heard a blurb somewhere that if you ordered the L78 with standard tranny and didn't specify which you wanted exactly, the formula the assembly line used was 3:55 or higher rear gear, M-20, lower than 3:55, M-21. In 69 the M-22 was available, had to be specifically ordered obviously, M-22 was not available in the Nova for 70, never heard of a 3pd in a BB Nova. I have no idea if this is fact, just what I heard. SULLY

[Don_Lightfoot]

Appears I have some additional varying opinions to throw in the pot, thanks for the responses http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[supcarbob]

I remember a friend that ordered a 396/375 Chevelle in 1968. Money was tight and I remember his insurance man would not insure a 4-speed for him due to his age(18 at the time). Only options were am radio and L78.Had a 3-speed on floor with bench seat and open rear end(no posi).

[Don_Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember a friend that ordered a 396/375 Chevelle in 1968. Only options were am radio and L78. Had a 3-speed on floor with bench seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good information Bob http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I don't think there were a lot of changes in this area from 1968 to 1969.

[Chevy454]

I was thinking along the lines of Sully. The Novas were cheaper than cheap, and the base combo I *believe* was M20/3.55...in my mind, if the base tranny in the el cheapo Nova was the M20, then the base tranny in the other car lines would be the same, if not a step up. But, I wasn't there, so this is just my stinky opinion... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kurt S]

Base trans for a L78 in a Camaro was the 3 speed manual (MC1). Don't see that combo very often, but they exist.
Also, all SS's in 69 that had a 3 speed manual got a floor shift. 67-8's could be column shift.

[Don_Lightfoot]

Agree Kurt, thanks. Can't see it being different for the Velle

[ohhawk]

According to the Chevrolet SS Muscle Car Red Book:

1969 CHEVELLE SS - L78, if you ordered an auto it was the Turbo Hydra-matic (3 sp.)...if you ordered with the manual it was a 4 sp. of several choices but the M22 was only available with the L78 or L89. The 3 sp. manual was only available on the 325 and 350 HP versions. The 3 sp. auto, Turbo-Hydra-matic, was available on all versions.

1969 CAMARO SS - Says the Turo Hydra-matic 3 sp. was available with all SS engines. Goes on to say the only manual transmission available with the the 375 HP versions was the M22. Other 4 sp. versions available on other HP versions outside of the L78 and L89. The 3 sp. manual was only available on the 350/300's.

Quiz tommorrow!

[Don_Lightfoot]

Interesting Dick, thanks.

Seems every source has a different story http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif. We need Jerry to do one of his books on Chevelles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif.

Ah the heck with it, I'm taking up drugs http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
Base trans for a L78 in a Camaro was the 3 speed manual (MC1). Don't see that combo very often, but they exist.
Also, all SS's in 69 that had a 3 speed manual got a floor shift. 67-8's could be column shift.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Kurt and heres why........

Years ago, I bought a Muncie 3-sp. tranns at a swap meet. It caught my eye because it had a factory Muncie shifter hanging on it and the shifter wasn't the usual 4-sp. It dawned on me that I was looking at a special heavy-duty Muncie 3-sp complete with the original shifter, linkage, etc. The seller claimed it came out of a 69 Camaro L78 that he couldn't sell because all potential buyers said it should have a 4-sp. He removed the tranns, installed a 4-sp, and sold the car. I have no reason to doubt his word.

It is RPO MC1/M13 in Camaro and only came with a floor mounted shifter in 69. I still have the tranns and shifter and would like to mate it to the original car but thats looking for a needle in the hay stack.

I consider it a interesting piece of GM history. Not many were built.

I'am thinking this same tranns was installed in 68-9 Velles behind Hi-Perf motors if no optional tranns were selected.

Correct me if I'am wrong please.

[JoeG]

Some more info--this is from a '68 buyers book-- Chevelle-- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/88293-trans.jpg

[JoeG]

some '69 info--paragraph was shorten to highlight M13-- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/88295-m13.jpg ........

[ohhawk]

Don, taking a look at another resource on your question....Mike Mueller's Chevelle 1964-1972 book says regarding the '69 Chevelle SS..."Turbo Hydra-matics were also offered behind the brutish L78 for the first time, as were all the manuals, including the Super Sport special MC1 3 speed and M20 wide ratio four speed units that previously had been spared the wrath of 375 horses".

This would support what the other fellas said about the MC1 which the Red Book did not mention.

[Don_Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
Mike Mueller's Chevelle 1964-1972 book

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Dick, I knew I read it somewhere. Before I posted the question I quickly scrolled through that book, but it didn't specifically jump at me. I see it now, page 73 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What I would really like to see is a copy of the "Dealer Option Order Book" where it would indicate what "other" options needed to be ordered with specific options. For example, when ordering the Z25 SS Option, it was necessary to order J52 Power Disc Brakes. Was there a spcific "tranny option" required when ordering the L78? I still think not, but am always learning http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Kurt S]

Most books like the Red Book, etc, have errors in them. We try to base everything on GM documentation and real cars. Lot fewer mistakes that way. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Craig,
That's a familiar story. I've heard of several L78 cars with the 3 speed trans swapped cause noone believed it was original.
If you send me the VIN off that trans and the trans code, I'll see if I know anything about that car or if we run across it in the future.

One thing I don't know for sure. If you ordered a SS and got the base trans, was the trans included in the SS price or was M13 / MC1 a mandatory option ($79) that you had to pay for? I think it was the latter, but I'm not positive. Never seen a window sticker to confirm it.....

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]

Craig,
That's a familiar story. I've heard of several L78 cars with the 3 speed trans swapped cause noone believed it was original.
If you send me the VIN off that trans and the trans code, I'll see if I know anything about that car or if we run across it in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kurt,

Only stamped number on the tranny is as below:

19N637387

Obviously a 69 Norwood stamp. From the VIN sequence number, I'am thinking the car was built sometime in the 5th week of May, 1969.

All the main case, tail housing and side cover casting numbers agree.

Anyone else care to chime in on any info?

Craig S