Prototype ZL-1 Possibly Found

[MotownMadman]

By sheer accident following up on the proverbial "Corvette in the barn theory" all indications lead to the fact that the Black and Gold RS Zl-1 prototype Camaro is alive and well, although needing serious attention before it returns to the original elements of Mother Earth. The car has been in storage since 1971, it belongs to a retired GM executive, and oddly enough it it located very near the GM proving grounds. It had been parked outside from 1971 to 1975, in which case someone had stolen the cowl hood, it now has a primer hood in it's place. Rust had started causing bubbles under the vinyl top so he had peeled the top and primered it. It has the strangest wheels I have ever seen on a Camaro, they look to be off a vega. The rear spoiler appears to be an afterthought as the stripes continue all the way to the edge of the trunk lid. The odometer shows around 1300 miles. In the back seat is a plate that is partially covered in which MC65 is readable which coinsides with the plate on the car in vintage photos. When I first saw the car several months back I inquired about purchasing it and he replied "over my dead body", due to legalities with ownership issues. The car is packed away in a garage buried in stuff, cardboard boxes, kids toys Xmas trees, etc, etc, which made opening the hood impossible without a days work of digging it out.I paid him a visit this weekend and it seems I may have broken down his stance of "no sale" and it appears hopeful I may get the car. I will keep everyone posted. If God grants me the miracle of taking possesion of this car I will not be able to afford the cost of a correct restoration it deserves, so once I get photos which he wont allow at this point I will be taking sealed bids from those interesred. Everybody keep their fingers crossed.
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[hvychev]

This is going to be veeeeerry interesting.......

[YenkoChevelle69]

Very cool Motown!!! Best of luck to ya! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Chris396]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif Very cool!

[camarojoe]

I bet they guy also has a whole case of Berger license plate frames stashed in his attic too.

[Jeff H]

That would be sweet if it's really the other prototype ZL1. Let us know what you find out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[hvychev]

Joey don't forget the emblems too! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[NCGuy68]

The car has been rumored to exist for a long time. Hope its' not just another hoax.

[Charley Lillard]

By talking about it here before you have it bought you are setting yourself up for another fall. You have given enough info out that the sharks are probably turning over every rock in the neighborhood. If someone finds it and buys it out from under you, think back to this post. If I were on the verge of getting ahold of that car I absolutely would not mention it anywhere till it was locked in my garage.

[mahoy78spyder]

Wheels off a Vega?... w/ Vega wheels having a 4X100mm bolt pattern, not likely. Interesting story none-the-less...although I wouldn't have said anything until the car was in my possession. But hey... I'll admit I'd have trouble keeping my mouth shut about something this exciting too. Hope this all works out for ya!

Ken

[MotownMadman]

Charley,
I had givin that a great deal of consideration before making this post.... There are several fail safe systems involved with the deal. First of all he is a life long family friend, and secondly he has a deposit contingent on his decision to sell, if not the deposit is returned. The purpose of this post was to get an rough idea what it may be worth as he is unsure what to charge as I am unsure what to pay. No amount of money would cause this gentleman to lose a life long friendship between two families let alone litigation. The place for knowledgable input on approxiamate value would be here. Put blood in the water and the sharks will come. Thanks for the good advice though Charlie. Without failsafes I would not have posted this. I have been sitting on this situation for over a month and once I was satisfied the bases were covered from being tossed from the game I am here looking for input. After the last screwing I took I am a lot more cautious and consult with my attorney before I do anything. He assures me I am locked in on this one legally, and more importantly morally. I am yet to be positive it is the car, I am going to take Jim Mattison to have a look see.
Thanks,
Motown http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO_Anders]

Are we talking about the prototype for the 100 Berger street ZL-1 cars that were never ordered ?
Weren´t there two cars built, one manual and one auto ?
I remember reading on this forum about a year ago that one had surfaced. I think it was in Houston. Am I wrong ?

Anders

[copo9566aa]

It's a clone or a real this one. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[firstgenaddict]

There was a clone built and it was in MCR a few years back. Looks just like the one in the GM photo.

[DarrenX33]

Roger- Is this picture the clone or real one?

[Pantera]

Judging from the building in the background that is the clone. Unless I am mistaken, Chev was not using that bo-tie emblem quite like that back then.

[copo9566aa]

Another shot http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
I'm not remember the source of these pictures. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[copo9566aa]

And the original COPO 9567 Prototype http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
After the last screwing I took I am a lot more cautious and consult with my attorney before I do anything. He assures me I am locked in on this one legally, and more importantly morally.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but morality and money go together about as well as water and oil. If the car turns out to be the ZL-1 concept Camaro and it has its original engine intact underhood, I'd guess the car is worth AT LEAST $300K. You gonna' give the owner $300K for it? No, don't answer, that was a rhetorical question. What if the owner decides at a later date that you got the car from him for too low a price and feels mislead as to the car's worth? Again, no answer needed. See, the concept of morality and money combined forms a very slippery slope, lawyer(s) or no. I would say that the conflict between morality and money is why lawyers were invented in the first place. Tread carefully and good luck.

"Your conscience is the one thing that feels bad when everything else feels good."

[DarrenX33]

I see it now. No vinyl top there = clone.

[TMagda]

TTT

[SMGCO]

[ QUOTE ]
By talking about it here before you have it bought you are setting yourself up for another fall. You have given enough info out that the sharks are probably turning over every rock in the neighborhood. If someone finds it and buys it out from under you, think back to this post. If I were on the verge of getting ahold of that car I absolutely would not mention it anywhere till it was locked in my garage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that and recommend we all apply this principal to all our trades/deals.

[69motion]

Motown take it from me get the car then talk about it im sure someone is already on a plane to snake it out from under you !! i hope you get the car icant wait to see the pics good luck jeff http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[All American Racer]

Motown mentioned the MC65 plate that matches up to old photos.?! I don't know but it sure sounds legit to me but for a quarter million bucks I guess anything is possible. Best of luck Motown. Marc

[x44d80]

Motown, I asked Ed C. about these 2 cars almost 20 years ago and he had no info, suspected them crushed or revinned and sold by GM. Have you asked Ed or Jim if they have any new info on it?. I'm sure for what the car is worth it would be in your best interest not to share until you have the car in your garage. Good luck.

[Kurt S]

That's Al Wallace's ZL1 replica. Last I knew, it's in MI too. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[70 copo]

Kurt,

Who is Al Wallace? Was the replica built years ago, or started and left unfinished? What is the story as you know it?

Thanks.

Phil

[ANDY M]

Al Wallace is an engineer who when I first came into contact with him in '96 was living in the Dayton area and had almost finished the car. He started with an SS 350, with a/c, already black, and finished the car exactly to the GM specs for the COPO ZL1 production mule. Not sure where he got the ZL1 motor, but it was in there. He drove up to Columbus for the nationals in 2000, but just to hang out. BTW, his home town was Southfield, MI. (same as me).
I have not spoken to him for a few years, but if he moved back to MI it would'nt surprize me.
Andy

[70 copo]

Ok. that clears that up. I was afraid that there was possibly two clones out there. I looked the car over in Columbus. Nice car.

[camarojoe]

I don't understand the "possibly found" statement. Have you actually seen the car in the barn as stated in the first post of this thread? If i saw this car, I think i would know if i saw the prototype ZL1 or if I didn't. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Mark_C]

Every thing you ever wanted to know about Al Wallace's car and the original.

9567 COPO Page (http://www.freewebs.com/67RS/ZL-1/COPO_9567_ZL-1.htm)

[70 copo]

Reading posts back to back where the respondent is replying to part of the thread that is several posts back can be confusing. I saw Kurt's reply. and incorrectly assumed the car found in Michigan might have had known history.

That is all.

FYI ....I used to have a big fish tank at my house with real sharks in it. I got rid of them not too long ago-but this reply made me think of them again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Phil

[camarojoe]

Phil, Sorry, I was not replying to your statements, but rather to Motown's, in the very first post, and in the title of the thread itself... I guess I just question how someone could find a 69 Camaro as it was described, within the possession of a retired GM exectutive, complete with the original licence plate still in the backseat, etc. and then say its "possibly" the prototype ZL1...I just meant that I would think it would be pretty easy to tell if it was or wasn't if you were staring it in the face. What clues would make you think it might NOT be this prototype car? I assume from reading the original post that you physically SAW the car, correct? or did i mis-read the post? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[70 copo]

I was refering to the clone from 2000 in Columbus Ohio. The car was well done. As for the potential existance of one of the real Black and Gold press cars, I guess such a find would rank up there with the 68 Estes car that emerged several years back. Now the real question is if One of the mules is found- then there is the possability that the Second mule also survived.

In the past I like others simply accepted the stories that they were crushed long ago.

Phil

[camarojoe]

Agreed, but thats a mighty big "if"... I think we should wait to see if THIS prototype ZL-1 ever actually emerges into reality before overturning every rock in the USA to find the other.

[NCGuy68]

OK.......Enough BS......!!!!!!!!!!

Does the car exist?

This sounds like a cheap imitation of reality TV!

[Canucklehead]

If you go back and read these posts, Matt states that he just might have found this long lost car, yet this guy is a lifelong family friend. Why is it that this longtime friend kept this car a secret from Matt all these years knowing that Matt is a fan of muscle cars and is a broker of said cars? Also Matt claims he's going to buy the car but dosent have the money to restore it yet a few months ago Matt needed our help to pay his medical bills? Yet has the money to buy what I would think would be a very expensive car?. As said earlier, why would an experienced broker even mention something like this unless it's secured?. It surprises me that someone hasent mentioned this earlier. I would think it's time to put your boots on becouse it's going to get deep!!

[hvychev]

Canucklehead!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I agree!

Why the in the name of god and everything holy would the "broker" be taking sealed bids on a car he "may" have not seen or even owns yet!!?????? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[gemleeus]

wow man, i hope ya know this matt guy real good, cause sounds like you just spit in his eyes about this whole thing.

[Belair62]

Hey Gem...they are just reading the posts and trying to make sense of them...are you ?

[Canucklehead]

Well i would think that if your going to post on this site your opening yourself to public scrutiny, and last i checked this is a public forum and everybody is allowed his or her own opinion. So if you don't like negative responses then don't post. Im not trying to pick a fight im just pointing out the obvious.

[gemleeus]

i agree with him belair

[whitetop]

Motown
Last year you found out your cousin had a Royal Bobcat GTO that he won from a radio contest in '66, stored away since new and today only has 25 miles on it.

Man after finding about these two lost cars you need to hit more family reunions and keep up with your longtime friends more often.

[berger]

hooper's book has MV and MX as the two new zl1 detuned engine codes ready as of april 69, I ve seen on another site these two prototypes were tripowers and I would imagine the 70 LJ2 motor 11to1 solid lifter tripower all aluminum w/ 4inch stroke was made as was the LT2 both meant for vettes and supposedly never made it into the cars but may have had a few leave as crate motors, interesting more vettes didn't get these aluminum motors, I wonder if durabilitly was a big downfall?? maybe only good for about 600miles than the L78s were going to pass you by on the track... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[gemleeus]

hey, a friend of mine is a deer hunter and was in some woods in north.ga. told me he came across several old cars. i ask him about them and he said one of them had some strange name along the rear quarter (hes not a car guy) said it started with a Y but the rest of the name was faded out, he said he didn't stay with them long because he was stalking a big buck, but he would take me back to that spot to check them out, we'll see, keep ya posted.

[Astock]

I agree with Canuckle 100% in regards to asking members for help in paying his medical bills.For a person that has a Law Degree, a Masters in Business and a 1/2 million dollar Team Shelby T/A and a estate large enough to invite half the country for a barbecue....I would be asking for a refund. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[gemleeus]

c'mon on down we'll go look together

[JChlupsa]

Have to clear something up, Matt as far as I know never asked for help in his Medical Bills here on the site. The Paypal link was started without his knowledge and intended for just that, to help with his medical bills, and thats what we all hoped it went for.

[JoeG]

Keep us posted-------------

[budnate]

Hey Guys I also need to jump in here, I was the one that started the process to set up a link for Matt, without getting into a long drawn out thread on the subject, he never asked for it!!, he was needing help so we gave him a hand, if it was you and you were in a bind I would kick a few bucks your way also, so if you want to complain about it send it this way by PM, not at Matt.

Just be glad it was not you fighting with Cancer, enough said on the subject.

Bud.

[BARN FIND]

If during your "HUNT" you see a small high wing airplane fly overhead and then two parachutes come out the door, one with a toolbox and one with me hanging on it, turn around you are going the wrong direction...LOL. I like to hunt too! North Georgia is real close to Tennessee! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Unreal]

Maybe it was a Yugo...you said your friend was not a car guy!

[gemleeus]

thats a very real possibility, for sure he's not a car guy. did the yugo have the name stickered on the quarters?

[TDW]

Anything new on the car Motown?

[Belair62]

How about you Gem ???

[ChrisS]

This has the potential of becoming the story behind the new version of the classic movie "Deliverance".

[gemleeus]

yes, i seen the car in question, but far from a yenko, it was a old police car, something like a yastowic county sherrif car, something like that, it was an 80's caprice in sad shape to say the least. BUT guess what i did find! a motion corvette in pristine condition in the middle of the woods. Lee, wake up, wake up, its time to water the lawn, oh, ok dear, i just took a little nap. seriously, a couple late 70's novas, a fiat, some motorcycle, didn't know what it was, guessing a triumph the way the engine looked. but the kicker was a white monte carlo, 71-72, white, auto, WITH a 396, how cool. it was fairly rough, but everything seemed intact. my buddy is gonna try and contact the owner see if we can drag her outta there. i was really excited going into the woods, the cars were about 2 miles from the road, used to be logging going on there, i guess thats how those cars arrived at their final resting place. i'm still excited about the big block monte we found, i'll keep ya posted.

[JoeG]

Shame your wife woke you up before you had a chance to tow out that Motion Vette---- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[gemleeus]

spoke with my friend tonight about the monte, he took his father in law to see it, and he says its a 350 in the car. when i looked at it i didn't raise the hood, i looked under it and thought it was a big block oil pan, his father in law got the hood up and verified the sb. he said the car was in bad shape, but i'am not going back on the property without the land owners permission, hes still trying to reach him, my friend doesn't know this man personally, he's in a hunting club and they lease the club land from him every year and he was scouting the other day when came across these vehicles, oh well maybe he'll find out who the landowner is and get permission to really check the cars out and see if we can remove the monte.