69 Pace car at track?

[L34Pace]

Hello, I am posting for the first time. I own several first generation camaros and have recently added a L34/M20 69 Pace car to my collection. I habit the camaros.net site on a regular basis and was hoping to get some additional help on this car. Like everyone else I want this to be one of the original track cars, however, when I bought it I knew the chances were slim I would be able to identify it as such. The car is a 03D build and the vin is a little high to have been included in the GM order for track cars. The car was delivered to Bob Baker Chevrolet, Indianapolis IN. and the POP has it put into service May, 13 69. So I know the car was on the road in Indianapolis prior to the race. The owner on the POP did not apply for title untill Jan, 15 70. A festival car owner (350/auto) visited me at the shop and looked the car over and he pointed out two things. I have a #17 painted on the heater box and the back of the rearview mirror has been scratched in the location of the identifying sticker placed on the track cars? I contacted the two other owners who combined have owned the car since 1971 and they had no knowledge of these issues. Can anyone help with these questions.

Any documentation that heater boxes were numbered?

The USAC cars had BB 4 speed (mine was built w/o power steering) how about the others?

Is any research still being conducted on the history of the Chevy pace car at Indy?

You can see photos and other information on this car in my post on Team Camaro. Thanks in advance for any information you might be able to provide.
Pat

[njsteve]

The actual festival cars, usac cars, etc were all delivered to the Indianapolis Zone Office, not a dealership destination address. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) My Z11 is an 02D build car (610486) smack dab in the middle of the festival car VINs, and was used as a public relations vehicle. It was used at the track but as an executive car, driven by a Washington Zone office upper level person (not part of the Indy group of cars) It shows its delivery destination as dealer code 14000 which is the Washington Zone Office. Any destination code that ends in all zeros is a Zone Office. The cars used by the Indy facility were all shipped early in the model year. Mine was shipped out to DC on 03/11/1969. I think your car would have been produced and shipped too late in the season.

What are the last 6 digits your VIN?

The majority, by far, of the Indy cars were 350s with automatics. The list of VINs out there and their corresponding drivetrains shows only a handful of 396s.

As for the #17, my car has the same number on its heater box! and it's an A/C-equipped car.

The expert on the Z11s is Donna Crispino in Pennsylvania. I dont have her contact info but maybe someone on the board does. She is the keeper of the Z11/Z10 registry. Good luck and enjoy the Big Block, they are a rare breed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[njsteve]

I rechecked my heater box and the number is actually "27" not 17, so I guess it just adds to the mystery! -NJsteve

[L34Pace]

NJsteve the vin# is N618545 I know this is late for the current standards of the known vins that have been documented. However, it appears almost 1/3 of the cars have not been documented. My POP shows the car was in service by May 13 69 the first application for title wasnt untill Jan 15 70. Bob Baker Chevrolet, Indianapolis was the selling dealer. Wouldnt the POP be issued from the selling dealer if the car was purchased after the race by this dealer from the Indianapolis zone office and then resold. I understand that this was the procedure for disposition of the track cars. Or would the POP be issued with the GM zone office as seller? This would certainly account for the period of warranty service between May 69 and Jan 70 would it not? On another note have you ever heard that the track cars were numbered under the hood on the core cover? Maybe its just Indy lore I am recalling, but I thought someone here may know.

[njsteve]

Most likely is that every dealer in Indy would want at last one pace car of their own to show off with around the time of the race. I dont know about the initial POP data. (My car's orginal owner is still looking for it) My car was shipped to the Zone on 03/11/1969 but wasn't sold to a civilian owner until 08/18/1969. And it was also classified as a used car at that time on the selling invoice.
It definitely is a fact that the majority of the festival cars VINs are unknown, only about 50+/- are accounted for by some wonderful historian who had the presence of mind to scribble down VINs at the track in 1969. I would make an educated conclusion that since the sampling made by that person are all earlier VINs made in the 02D - 03A range, that 03D would be too late and would be a regular dealer ordered car. As for the crayon number thing, my number is on the heater box inside the passenger compartment. I think I recall something about underhood numbers on the 67s in order for them to match the right keys with the right cars whenever someone lost a set. I think Donna Crispino's book on the Chevy Pace cars had something about that. I will have to recheck it. -NJSteve

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
The car was delivered to Bob Baker Chevrolet, Indianapolis IN. and the POP has it put into service May, 13 69.

[/ QUOTE ]

In rereading your initial posting you mention the above quote. Do you have a copy of the original window sticker or other documentation showing that dealer as the shipping destination? Because the GM order of 135+/- cars all showed their shipping destination as "Indianapolis Zone Office" with a xx000 shipping code. (I don't recall the first 2 digits for the Indy Zone code off the top of my head) This would be similar to the 14000 code for the Washington D.C. Zone Office. So, in essence, you may have answered your own question in the negative.

[L34Pace]

No I dont have any information about who the vehicle was shipped to. Is there a way to get this? I dont know if the car was sold to the owner listed on the POP as new or used. I just know he missed out on nearly eight months of warranty between the date the vehicle was put in service and the date he applied for a title? It would make sense to me that a this car could have been placed in service by the Indianapolis zone office on may 13th (about the time things at Indy get rolling) and after the race Bob Baker Chevy buys the car from the zone office as dictated by GM proceedure. He then sells it to the first civilian owner in Jan. 70 (hard cars to move) who is given a POP with the cars initial service date and the remainder of the 5/50 is transfered to civilian owner #1, again as dictated by GM. Complicated but reasonable to assume?
Pat

[njsteve]

NICB, the National Insurance Crime Bureau has all the data on all shipping destinations for every vehicle ever made back to the early 1920's. But unfortunately only law enforcement/insurance fraud investigators have access to the archived data.

[68z302]

[ QUOTE ]
NICB, the National Insurance Crime Bureau has all the data on all shipping destinations for every vehicle ever made back to the early 1920's. But unfortunately only law enforcement/insurance fraud investigators have access to the archived data.

[/ QUOTE ]
If that information was public I'm sure the Law Enforcement community would have a few fraud investigations to pursue.
I don't see the reason to keep 30 year old records hidden.
There should be some kind of freedom of info clause for stuff like this! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[COPO]

Freedom of Information Act only pertains to public records not private which is the case with NICB.

[njsteve]

I dont really know why the old info is kept so secret either. They could charge $50 a pop or whatever price they wanted for the one page sheet that lists the VIN and the corresponding dealer destination code number. FOI rules don't apply as this is not a governmental entity, it is a private industry database. -NJSteve