COPO?

[Mike]

Is a mid-December build date too early for a COPO car? I'm looking at an X-11 with a big block heater core, and what appear to be big block motor mounts. I know I will need to look for the other signs....just curious about the mid-december build date. It seems too early?

Thanks,
Mike

[no69x-44]

Mike - You fail to say what year mid Dec. that block is from. Also, what is the build date of the car itself. One other thing, is that a "CE" motor that you are looking at. If yes, it just may still fit the correct time lines if it is falls within your cars build date.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I believe so, the first L72 copo camaros were built in January of '69.

[Supercar_Kid]

Check for the rear brake proportioning valve on the driver's side subframe, also look for the cowl hood relay piercing on the firewall, those would be must haves if it's a real COPO car.

[firstgenaddict]

Yea but the first ZL1's were built in December.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Which is why I referenced 'L72 copo', not the ZL1's.

[no69x-44]

Where's the speedometer cable hole in the fire wall? Next to the fuse block, or above the accelerator linkage hole at the front edge of the trans tunnel?

How many fuel lines on the passenger side sub frame?

Does it have power front disc brakes?

Does it have a 12 Bolt rear axle? What's the code letters on the front of the passenger side axle tube?

Does it have a residual pressure valve in the brake line on the sub frame under the drivers seat?

Does it have A/C? If so which way does the upper evaporator tube bend in towars the engine, or out towards the fender?

What's the diameter of the front sway bar?

Does it have a 2" by 5" plate with two threaded holse in it welded to the drivers side of the rear frame rail right outboard of the shock?

These are just some of the things that folks in the know had me check to verify if my car was turely a COPO. Take a look and report back to us.

--Rob

[Mike]

Doesn't match any of the ZL-1 vins. I'll see if I can get more details. Where exactly are the hidden vins. Also, where should the relay piercing be on the firewall? Its probably someones attempt at making a big block car but you never know?

Thanks,
Mike

[no69x-44]

Mike - The relay priecing is right below the power booster for the power brakes. Also, one of the hidden vin's is were the heater blower moter is stamped on the firewall.

[Supercar_Kid]

Mike the CI piercing I referenced is on the firewall, up and to the right of the heater box. No where near the brake booster. See the shiny silver relay to the left of the cowl air cleaner in this pic. http://www.yenko.net/features/2003/HARTZL12_big.jpg Look for a punctured mounting hole there. Also, if the car has a factory A/C suitcase on the firewall, it's not a COPO, regardless of which way the evaporator tubes bend. No solid lifter engines had A/C, even in the 396 L-78 variety. Let us know what you find.

[Mike]

Thanks guys for the info. Can you usually see the hidden vin without taking things apart? No69X-44 I've seen the thread about your car and the photo of the hidden Vin. Is that behind the passenger wheel well?

Mike

[DarrenX33]

Sorry. Your gonna need some elbow grease. Not that bad to remove.

[no69x-44]

Yup, behind the passenger wheel well is correct. But there are bunch of other checks (see list sent above) that you can check off before actually taking things apart. At sometime, yes you need to get dirty http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mike]

Just curious...what does the orange wire go to that is above the heater core housing in that photo?

Mike http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[bkhpah]

The blower motor...BKH

[Mike]

Thanks Brian. I haven't spent any time analyzing the difference between big block and small block cars so here goes another potentially stupid question. Do the heater core supply and return lines actually penetrate through the firewall on a small block car or do they exit the core cover....just to the side of it versus the middle on a big block.

Thanks,
Mike

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The blower wire is orange regardless of the engine being a SB or a BB.

The SB heater hoses exit the firewall next to the heater box cover, which has reliefs on it's edge so that the hoses don't have to penetrate through the cover itself like the BB version.

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe so, the first L72 copo camaros were built in January of '69.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Marlin ...was reading and responding to quickly.
Need to take a few minutes and engage my brain before I engage my mouth ...errrr fingers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[no69x-44]

On the big blocks, the cores came through the actual heater cover. on the SB, the plumbing for the heater core came out the firewall closer to the block.

[firstgenaddict]

"Do the heater core supply and return lines actually penetrate through the firewall on a small block car or do they exit the core cover....just to the side of it versus the middle on a big block."

A+ You got it... and you say you haven't studied.

[Mike]

The car was on e-bay and has recently ended/sold. I wasn't able to see the car so I guess we'll never know. All I had to go by were photos of the car. I can't understand why the car would have had a big block heater core unless someone changed it from small block to big block during its life, or changed the vin and trim tag? Here's a link to the ended auction.
X11 Big Block (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=24899271 03&rd=1)

Here is another X11 big block that I haven't been able to get any information on. Anybody in Virginia that can take a look?

X11 Big Block #2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=24901166 73&rd=1)

Mike

[camarojoe]

Both cars have drum brakes. (power discs standard on COPO) It's unlikely they are anything more than cars that have had a big block added later on... The big block heater core was likely added for the same reason GM did it, because a small block one doesn't fit too well and mashes the heater hoses between the firewall and cylinder head if its not changed. Yeah, the discs could have been removed for a full drum brake setup, but thats usually very unlikely. I've seen heater cores swapped out to accomodate a big block swap alot more often than I've seen a full power disc setup scrapped in favor of 4 wheel drums. Anyone ever drive/stop a 69 Camaro or chevelle with 4 wheel manual drum brakes? It aint fun. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BARN FIND]

Also, shouldn't a Big Block car have a 12 bolt rear end? Neither one of these have that.

[camarojoe]

Yep, but rears, just like engines... often times never survive 35 years in the same car. Either one COULD be worth looking into just to be sure, but I have serious doubts either car is a COPO.