How fast was a Motion Camaro

[GMH454]

Interesting to think about. Not talking about acceleration or time through the traps, but top end.
My car is a Holden Statesman special order, that ran local A/MP in 74/75. Car ran 454 13/1 alloy 074 heads 454 +60thou, muncie wide ratio and 12 bolt with nearly every known gear set known to man. What was unusual was it had a Hone O/D and was driven to and from the track even with the twin 4 barrels Grump lump and wheels sticking out 2" from the guards.

The builder who is restoring the driveline for me, Jim Rowley who is still racing nationally today, told me he topped out on the city highways at 7200 one night running a Mad Max (Falcon Cleveland Coupe that ran B/MP). Jim being a curious guy went home measured tyre dimensions gears overdrive factor etc., and concluded it was 172mph, which explained why when the road ended, he could'nt pull up and went through the intersection with horn blairing etc.

Drive line is similar to a Phase III Camaro, wonder what they did ???

On very slippery Sydney tracks, we never raced enough to get any rubber laid down, it went 11.68 and on a different run 132mph. Car weighed around 3,700 in racing trim. Car is documented by articles and over 11 mag appearances, so definitley not wishful thinking
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[427TJ]

Joel Rosen advertized that a '68 Phase III Camaro should do what, high 11's with a proficient driver? I think that's the ET he guaranteed. (Somebody help me out here.)

[COPO_Anders]

I think the Motion cars should do AT LEAST 11.50 with an experianced driver.

Anders

[GMH454]

Guessing around 115 through the traps but on a straight road, no 1/4 mile how high would they run ???

[Stefano]

There was a '78 Motion Trans AM at SR7, easily running in the high 12s with its original Motion Built engine.

Full option car with AC working and not sorted as previous owners had changed the rear end ratio from 4.10 to 3.55, installed smaller tube headers and a more restrictive full exhaust and dialed the carb in for ideling into shows.

Definately an 11.00 sec street machine when set up as Rosen Built it and not worrying about what may happen the original engine!

[DarrenX33]

Heck I can't remember the times at SCR7 but remember Dan McMichael and the 71 Motion Camaro. That thing has so much power I felt bad for those poor tires. He was running slicks to. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[AutoInsane]

I think GMH 454 is wondering what kind of top end mph you could get out of a Motion car. If it was set up with the overdrive it would be capable of some impressive mph figures!!!!

Intersting question due to the fact that these cars were built to go as fast as hell for only a quarter of a mile. How fast (top speed) has anyone here gone in their muscle car?

[MOTION1]

Truth be known, that was the first time I ever ran my Camaro on a drag strip. Even with a really screwed up carb, there was so much torque that I never did get it to hook-up. It just spun the tires (that was shifting at 5500 too!). Awesome feeling of power though...there is nothing like the sensation of big block. I can only imagine if it had just been tuned by Joel!

Dan

[skierkaj]

With my new 350 (upgrade from 305), I've buried the speedo (130), and let off. I still had gas pedal left, and I have no idea what the rpm's were running (no tach). I probably could've gotten at least another 10-15 Mph. All of this thanks to 2.73 gears; at least they're good for top speed.

There'll be no more of that, cause I'm gettin some 3.73's very shortly.

[427TJ]

Okay, I dug up an original ad for the '68 Phase III Camaro. (See attached.) Joel Rosen guaranteed that the car would "run 120 mph in 11.50 seconds or better."

I cropped the ad so the performance claims can be read.

[427TJ]

This performance table is from the January 1969 Rodder and Super/Stock magazine road test of the '68 Motion Phase III Camaro. On the L70x15 street tires (rear) they did a best of 12.00 at 114.5, through the mufflers, but the car would barely hook up. With open headers, no air cleaner, a set of "M&H B-140 9.5-14 wrinkle walls" and Joel Rosen himself driving, the car got down to a best time of 11.48 at 125.

[jfkheat]

The original question was not asking for 1/4 mile times and speeds. Drag racing times for these cars are well documented. He wants to know how fast the cars will go on an open road. Are they capable of 170 0r 180 mph? Is there any record of a Motion car running at Bonneville Salt Flats?
James

[55chevy]

GMH454, Do you have any pics of that Holden? Just wondering what it looks like. Sounds like a mean ride. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
Heck I can't remember the times at SCR7 but remember Dan McMichael and the 71 Motion Camaro. That thing has so much power I felt bad for those poor tires. He was running slicks to. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dan's Camaro is a '73. I think he pulled down some low 14's with it hazing the rear tires 3/4 the way down the track and the back end wiggling back and forth.. That thing definitely needs some serious stickys and it would be in the 11's easy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
How fast (top speed) has anyone here gone in their muscle car?

[/ QUOTE ]

I had the '04 GTO up to 152mph in 5th gear with some tach and another gear to go! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Had to slow it down in a hurry due to an upcoming bend in the road. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Figured that was fast enough for me and didn't try again before I got rid of the car. I hear the new GTO's are electronically limited to 160 mph though. I'd like to see one with the governor turned off. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Motion Camaro]

<font color="blue">Here is the original ad.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/295000-295999/295985_14_full.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
The guy that owned mine said he changed a couple of things &amp; had it running 10:30's in 1970. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

I also had a freind with a 1970 Phase III 'Vette.
That car ran mis 11's &amp; with the Hone OD could break 200mph topped out!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gifVery Fast, Very Scary http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif (we were 17)</font>

[Seattle Sam]

You know the terminal speed would have been dependent on the final drive ratio. I'm sure 600 HP would make a 69 Camaro plenty fast with a 3.08 gear...

In September of 1996 I was at 134 mph and accelerating in the middle of Montana in our Brickyard 400 car (97 Camaro Z28 convertible) when my lovely wife woke up...needless to say we slowed right down!

On another trip through Montana in August of 2001, my friend Don in his 2000 Z28 convertible used the cruise control to bump the speed up to 146. This with the top down and two big guys (and our luggage) in the car.

Not bad for two factory stock convertibles!

-Sam

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
The original question was not asking for 1/4 mile times and speeds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh. Well, I suppose of you put really low (numerically) gears in it and tall rear tires then have a push truck get it up to 60 or so and then open it up, I suppose a 427 Motion-style Camaro could hit 200 or so. First-gens have been run at Bonneville and probably topped 200. Kind of an odd question, really. I suppose if you dropped a Motion Camaro out of a C-130 at 20,000 feet it might do better than 200 at some point in the fall. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose if you dropped a Motion Camaro out of a C-130 at 20,000 feet it might do better than 200 at some point in the fall.

[/ QUOTE ]

[insert terminal velocity formula here]

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[insert terminal velocity formula here]

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/Images/termv.gif

[427TJ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Supercar_Kid]

If I remember my physics facts correctly, I think terminal velocity works out to somewhere around 9.8 meters per second, in a vacuum where wind resistance isn't a factor. But since we aren't talking about dropping a Motion Camaro out of a plane, or racing it on the moon, this may be of more help. Top Speed Calculator (http://www.mysportscar.com/features/topspeed.htm) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[GMH454]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The original question was not asking for 1/4 mile times and speeds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kind of an odd question, really. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Brock Yates documented top end running on the Detroit Freeways back in a R &amp; T or C &amp; d piece in around 66 or 67. From the old Cars mags I beleive top end was done around New York, Motion Cars were not made to compete in set drag classes but to run the street. Hence the question. Answer is if it happened no-one here knows or is not sharing.

The comparision came from my car which had its driveline based on a Motion car when things like Hone'e were available.
These cars had aerodynamics like bricks, so math formulas are meaningless.
Ever stuck your arm out the window at 130mph (and gone back to pick it up )
As I said top end running was done, it usually does not look as dangerous as it is when you are travelling straight and you're behind the wheel.

[JoeG]

I dug up a test done by Speed&amp;Supercar '68---I did hear of one that went 11.2/11.3-, but conditions were right---I posted the test in 3 parts, so you could be able to read it---Hope it helps----------- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/99959-ph1.jpg

[JoeG]

#2-- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/99960-ph2.jpg

[JoeG]

The test car------ http://www.yenko.net/attachments/99962-phcar.jpg

[Motion Camaro]

<font color="blue">I like these specs better&gt;&gt; (see attached)
It looks like the top speed was in the 1/4 mile, not how fast the car would go all out.
Like I posted before, my friends Phase III 'Vette could break 200 ... </font>

[Supercar_Kid]

Those stats look awfully comparable to me. Am I missing something? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">
Like I posted before, my friends Phase III 'Vette could break 200 ... </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

200 mph in a 68-70 Corvette sounds pretty crazy to me...Those are Ferarri Enzo or MacLaren F-1 kinda numbers... I don't think an old B/M vette like that would even stay on the road at 200+mph... Superbite suspension or not! I think the spec sheet's claim of 125 mph is probably more realistic.

[Motion Camaro]

<font color="blue">Sorry, They are about the same.
My mistake. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
How about this original Baldwin one ... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif</font>

[dreemz]

Is that invoice for your car? Tell us more!

[55chevy]

Yeah Motion Camaro... Pics.. Stories. History.. Come on man. Share it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[phaseIII482]

My Motion Phase III Corvette with the Hone overdrive and the ZLX 482ci. 600 hp. engine was gauranteed in writing by motion performance to run mid 11 second 1/4 mile times (in street trim) and still CRUISE at 120 M.P.H. (CRUISE AT ) I also have a Proof of Ownership letter from the first owner stating that he remembers driving this vette in excess of 160 m.p.h since he buried the speedo at 160, with the hone engaged. He also told me this in a conversation we had.

[Pantera]

I don't know physics on this but I have raced my '69 vette at top end speed and I can tell you that it gets pretty scary when you get up in the 160 and plus range. Things are going by dammmmm fast. If you ever spun a car at over a 100 you can be sure that you will wish the dam thing would slow down soon. Everything seems to be in slow motion when you are sliding sideways when in fact it isn't. Perhaps it's your life flashing in front of your eyes.

I do know that there is a point that the wind resistance overcomes the horsepower you have and you just can't go any faster. There used to be a top end speed list of the top sportscars in one of the car magazines and none of them were over or even at 200. It has been years since I kept up with the list so I am sure that they have raised the top with some of the cars that have comeout since. I would beleive 175 to 180 with a stock body vette but they are not that stable at that speed.

I remember one night at 3 am, coming back from my mothers in Dallas and laying the ears back on my Pantera. Now that is not the fastest car ever made but it is no slouch either. All I could get was 168 and I thought the tops of the tires were going to come through the tops of the fenders. Felt like it would drag the undercarriage on the pavement any second.

My '70 Phase III Vette would not go faster than 140 but that was with a 4:11 rear end and some tall tires on the rear. At that speed the front end is a litte light feeling.

I think there is a barrier that you hit around 180 that you just can't go any faster unless you have 200 more horsepower and better aerodynamics.

200 it a little hard to beleive, and trust me I am a big fan of Motion cars. I think phaseIII482ci's car is as top end fast as any that Joel ever made.

Pantera

[Xplantdad]

I agree with Pantera...

[ QUOTE ]
I do know that there is a point that the wind resistance overcomes the horsepower you have and you just can't go any faster. There used to be a top end speed list of the top sportscars in one of the car magazines and none of them were over or even at 200. It has been years since I kept up with the list so I am sure that they have raised the top with some of the cars that have comeout since. I would beleive 175 to 180 with a stock body vette but they are not that stable at that speed.



[/ QUOTE ]
Please see the link below for an interesting discussion on this very subject.
Z06 Corvette Top Speed (http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=47822)

Pretty interesting reading about Chevrolets 'race Vette for the street'

Bruce

[JoeG]

This is just some info--Motion built this MarkIII Vette for this fella in'68---It had a 3.55 rear--est. top speed in street trim 160mph --maybe a tad more------------ http://www.yenko.net/attachments/100217-makiii.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Here's another link to a Z06 site. The site is owned and operated by a friend that I met right after high school. He had 5.0 Mustang with nitrous back then...now he has a Z06 (or two), and shoots video from inside the car...at different tracks. His name is Rick Bailey.

Here's the link: Rick Baileys Z06 site (http://www.opentracking.com/track_video.htm)

Warning: You need a high speed connection to view this site, as the video files are very large.

Bruce

[dreemz]

Hey Motion Camaro, we're waiting for the story on the car born of the invoice you posted! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[GMH454]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just some info--Motion built this MarkIII Vette for this fella in'68---It had a 3.55 rear--est. top speed in street trim 160mph --maybe a tad more------------ http://www.yenko.net/attachments/100217-makiii.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless it ran an overdrive tnis may be more an example of Joel's abilty to promote his product rather than make fast cars.

15" wheels on a Vette with 3.36 gears at 6500rpm is around 150mph. With 3.55s doing 160mph its gonna be turning a lot of revs for a lot of time, not just a momentary blip thru the gears.

And Pantera thanks for the reality check, 200mph was something a Greenwood wide body running a mag cross ram used to do. Not a street bodied car with a 4 or 3 barrell carb.

[JoeC]

not sure of the mph but an owner of a 68 Motion Camaro told he was on the highway testing his Camaro back in the day and the glass stinger hood split in half and blew off over the roof of the car. He thought he forgot to put the hood pins on but when he stopped and checked the pins were still in place but the hood was gone.

[JoeG]

Well like I said this was just some info --Motion didn't offer overdrive in '68 .--The way the engine was set-up ,it was making HP past 6500rpms---They were using 15" rims, but I don't know how tall the rear tires were(L-70 INDY)---Anyway this fella just wanted to go 160mph , not do laps around Walmart.-----------------

[JoeC]

Some of the Motion cars went to Saudi Arabia. I bet they had some good high speed runs with cheep gas and plenty of open road. As long as they didn't run into one of those "fuelie head" horses. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[phaseIII482]

I dont know about 200 mph but I do believe the ad of Joels 160 mph corvette. GMH454 that corvette did have a Hone overdrive, I have the article showing the installation, so I dont no about this being more of an example of Joels ability to promote his product rather than make fast cars. Also, my Motion vette pulls hard to 7500 rpm's, your example is to 6500 rpm. I think that besides the horsepower Motion cars have, the driver must have big balls too!
Respectfully Mike

[Motion Camaro]

<font color="blue">I had the glass hood blow off my car on the Hutchison River Pkwy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Never used a 4 hoodpin setup again, always 8 after that.
</font>

[Motion Camaro]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know about 200 mph but I do believe the ad of Joels 160 mph corvette. I think that the driver must have big balls too!

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue">I had mentioned 200 MPH in my friends PhaseIII 'Vette before.
I know it pinned the 160MPH while it was still pulling.
This was on the Jersey TPK @ like 2am coming back from racing.
Yes, we had Big Balls &amp; NO Brains @ 17 yrs old.
Luckily, still around to talk about it.
I also had a '68 Charger R/T 440 which was lowered with larger tires (in '77),
&amp; that car would pin the speedo while still pulling also.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gifLoved the Jersey Tpk. </font>

[JoeG]

The vette I posted, didn't have a overdrive unit---the article is from '68---------------- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif