L89 Resto!!

[musclecarz]

Hi to all. We are finally getting back into the L89 Camaro. And has just arrived from being media blasted, During the blasting process all of the firewall codes began to show through. I am used to seeing a few codes but this thing looks like a middle school chalkboard. We want this to be a 100% accurate restoration, I will give you a short picture tour of the progress, First off the car has a great history and has alot of original pictures of it through the 70's, Sold new at Humphry Chevrolet in Wisconsin. It is a RS/SS with 4.10,s and a M21 trans, Code 55 Azure Turquise with 712 black interior, Endura, Spoilers, console w/ gauges, Blue light stereo, vinyl top, Chambered exhaust ( built 10D 1968), Much paperwork and original owner still lives at same address as when he bought new!! We thought this was one of the earliest built L89's but I have seen on this board a Convertible that was built the week prior, This is a early Norwood car and has the smaller cowl tag, Car still retains all of it's original dated components and is 100% numbers matching, Car also came with the XT wheels and dog dishes which i think is awesome, OK, The firewall before any restoration started showed the typical B T P inspection marks on each side and a large T U R partially covered by the heater box, Picture shows letters traced to show up better. I have original pic's this is just for reference

[musclecarz]

The car had X2 on the bulkhead in the rear seat area also that we preserved

[GM-26]

Can't stop there! More pictures! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Seattle Sam]

Cool pic, Carl!

What color(s) was used for the P, T, and B?

You think the TUR stands for turquoise?

I know you said the TUR was partly covered by the heater box, was the bottom of the "U" on the heater box or is there evidence that it was under the box?

Thanks,
-Sam

[musclecarz]

I suggest that any time you are restoring a car and you have it blasted or dipped or what have you that you and your camera should be there!! Then you can make sure that the operator of the nozzle is not going to erase these markings forever. Here is what we found on the firewall

[musclecarz]

many more to follow

[musclecarz]

more

[musclecarz]

picture of the original BTP orange stamps

[musclecarz]

more firewall

[musclecarz]

OK some of the codes are obvious like the M21 and the D80, The 222 and the 34 are easily readible but the others I have questions, The V37 is clear but is it a V or not? the N10 is not real clear and could be somthing else? above the V37 is a large O and K maybe http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif there is a set on the drivers lower cowl also

[musclecarz]

We would like to share this info with true supercar fans and hope it would not be used in a negative manner, It seems all these cars were different and alot of marks could be meaningless and random, I would like to thank all ahead of time. Any thoughts on the markings would be great!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[musclecarz]

Sam , I could not tell you for sure if the markings were on the box or not but I suspect that they passed under the box, Thanks

[Mr70]

Thank You for sharing these pix with us. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Are the Aluminum Heads the originals?
If so,what are their casting dates,& what is the block casting date?

[musclecarz]

Hi The cylinder heads are the early 842's with the plugs on the ends. One cylinder head was replaced( this is the only replaced part!) The dates are not in front of me for the heads but they pre-dated the car by a few months unlike all other components. The block is dated I-26-8 with a pad stamp of T1005JJ stamped behind the alternator

[Seattle Sam]

Here are a couple of guesses:

2 2 2 is actually Z22, representing the RS option

N10 is dual exhaust, could the 0 0 8 represent NC8 chambered exhaust?

34 might be for N34, wood grain plastic wheel?

The V 37 looks more like 437, which could be short for 12437, V8 coupe not 6 cyl coupe 12337 ?

Or could it be a Y 37 (don't know what that would be)

Just a few guesses..
-Sam

[Stefano]

Very Cool, thanks for posting.

[Mark_C]

All the codes remaining on the firewall, like N10, M21, Z22, Y437, D80, OU8(how about C08-vinyl top), etc. were put on by Fisher after the was assembled but before it was trimed out and primed. Fisher then painted the car and then blacked out the firewall and then added the PTB stamps just before sending the car over to the GM side of the plant. The TIIR (or TUR) was put on by GM on their side of the plant.

[musclecarz]

Yup, I'd say that is a Z22 for RS and That could be 437 also. The 34 is alone though, Very cool.. Thanks, I think Mark is right about the vinyl top code also. I'll dig up some more pictures

[bkhpah]

The V 37 could be VE3 for endura bumper, also check for the number on the interior top side of the heater box in orange crayon. It may match something on the firewall..BKH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

Interesting stuff!! You are right about having the camera to document these details. One of my L78 Novas had the letters VL78 written on the firewall. FYI...N10 is dual exhaust on a Nova don't know how that relates to Camaros. Good luck with the project.TW http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Excellent pics, the previous interpretations make sense, and we've seen most of them on Frank & Caleb Arones C-Yellow COPO Camaro. The V37 code could possibly refer to the vinyl top (V), with the 37 indicating the color of the top?

[musclecarz]

Great, That make sense. I don't know why they would need N10 and 437 on a steel body, V37 for the top though would let them know that the finish on the sails only needed to be prepped so far and the trim studs for the mouldings may have been installed at the Fisher plant... I will post some more pictures tonight

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The N10 is a necessary code to write on their as well since the body needed the extra plate welded onto the driver's side rear frame rail.

[bkhpah]

The last vinyl top COPO we restored had CO8 very clear on the firewall...BKH

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Brian, didn't the DANA Nova have a big 'V' on the firewall as well?

[bkhpah]

Yes, it had a large V with 65 beside it. The car is Olympic Gold with black top..BKH

[musclecarz]

Sorry about the picture of pictures but I couldn't scan them small enough for some reason? Here is a picture of the back of the block and on the right side it had a tall JJ in white paint aand a 26 on the drivers side of the block

[musclecarz]

Side of block

[musclecarz]

back of block

[musclecarz]

The day we got the car

[musclecarz]

One more from day we got it which I see yesterday was 5 years ago, There is a reflection on the rear quarter in the previous picture, The sheetsteel looks fine,

[musclecarz]

Chassis and drivetrain are ready to go!!

[Charley Lillard]

You got one of my Damn little dogs.................

[musclecarz]

Last one, The engine was standard bore and crank was Std/Std. Short block was removed in 1973 in favor of a LS6 bottom end, Exhaust manifolds,smog,were removed on day 2 so were in new condition, The valve covers are temorary, I need to find a plater to do them correctly??

[69L89RAG]

After my L-89 Convertible was dip stripped we had numerous markings show up on the stripped firewall. It was pretty suprising.

[JoeC]

did you notice if the markings were under the paint or on top of the paint?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Was the bellhousing completely orange like that when you pulled it apart? They seem to be everything from 1 inch of overspray to completely painted on original cars!

[musclecarz]

Hi, The markings on the block were under the original paint, The bell housing was oversprayed with about 3/4 of the surface covered in orange

[musclecarz]

Hi Marlin, Like I said the Bellhousing was almost completely painted, I decided to paint the whole thing 4 years ago, I think maybe I would do it different today? But it is the original part as was the flywheel suprisingly, I wonder about the fact that it had the JJ on the back of the block before it was painted? I know the engines were built in Generic lots; L78's, L35's and so on. But why were these L89's seperated to a specific car and trans before it was painted?? Were they not painted at Tonowanda?? Thanks Carl

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm assuming that the JJ was the engine application code? If so, it doesn't surprise me at all that it would be written on the engine under/over the orange paint.

This practice has been documented on a few Yenko Deuces, except that it's written on the sides, in yellow, and upside down. The location and color differences also do not surprise me, because your L89 engine was a Tonowanda engine for a Norwood car, and the Deuces have a Flint engine for a Willow Run car. So, I would expect some differences in the practice due to different engine & assy plants.

Additionally, we have found white 'X's on the ends of the cylinder heads, and blue paint on the head bolts. Both colors are under the orange engine paint, however, the CTB is on top of the orange.

[musclecarz]

Looking closer again I can say that we definately have a CO8 on the upper cowl for the vinyl top, The only unidentified marks are the 34 and the "V" 37 or 437? Any suggestions on having the original valve covers restored? I can send them out and replate them but I would like a OE appearing finish, More of a flash chrome finish, ??

[firstgenaddict]

I realize that most of the markings on the firewall were under the black out paint. Why do people put them on over the paint?
Other than they think it looks good? And makes onlookers go wow that is detailed.

[Jeff H]

Some of the marking on my JL8 car were still visible so they were not under any paint. In fact the dealer wrote the delivery date on the underside of the hood when the car arrived and that was still there. So a lot of these markings were pretty common, it just depends on who did them and when. My car also had the sequence number written on the firewall on the driver's side and it was hidden by the fender. That sequence number matches the sequence number on the broadcast sheet found on the gas tank. If the markings were painted over before delivery, then it should be restored with the markings painted over as well. It would be incorrect to show the markings. They just help document the car during restoration.

[musclecarz]

Hi Firstgen, I don't think it's common pratice to put all of these marks over the black paint, I think it's more of a reserch and documentation interest than anything, There are a few markings that will be over the paint though.. B T P stamps and the color callout T U R.

[musclecarz]

Jeff. I agree, We will put all the marks on the firewall as we found them and then apply the black paint as it was at the plant.

[All American Racer]

This might sound ridiculous but here it goes.....is there any chance that some unexplained numbers/letters could be an employees initials or ID number? I got to thinking about this at work today because we all carry stamps for our paperwork and many of the parts we work on have stamps/initials on them. Just a thought. Go Sox

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Not very strange at all! There are reports from line workers who claim to have written cryptic notes on specific areas of the cars to their buddies down the line.

I have some initials on my block as well, JH was very clear on the one side of my block, also written in Yellow except right-side-up. So, it's very possible that the codes don't really indicate anything about the car itself.

[1967Z28]

Speaking of line workers writing stuff on cars, I went through the Van Nuys plant a couple of times and on one of my trips ('92 I believe) there was a message painted on the side of a car which said "Lunch at Sizzler, Psycho buys". Obviously this was before the body color went on.

My thought on the V37 is it could be "437" which could correlate to the build sequence or it might be "V32" for rear bumper guards. Does your car have the rear guards?

-Jon

1967 Z28 original survivor
1967 Z28 Trans Am race car
1967 Z28 Registry

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
"Lunch at Sizzler, Psycho buys".

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Even funnier might be "This car was built on Monday"

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Exactly! The story I was referring to was a message from one line worker to another regarding where to meet at breaktime!

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Firstgen, I don't think it's common pratice to put all of these marks over the black paint, I think it's more of a reserch and documentation interest than anything, There are a few markings that will be over the paint though.. B T P stamps and the color callout T U R.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen many cars restored with these codes on top of the paint. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Most originals I've seen had the paint color (TUR in this case) under the firewall paint. Often visible since the letters (ie grease marker) seem to prevent the firewall paint from adhering correctly (and often allow minor surface rust).
Most common for being on top of the paint is the sequence / rotation # (used to track the car down the line) and TBP inspection stamps (NOR cars only).

[Jeff H]

My car also had "Mr Moto" painted in Hugger Orange on the transmission tunnel. You couldn't see it until you removed the console and carpet. I don't think that had much meaning. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[musclecarz]

Interesting.. Thanks Kurt, Now the codes and such left by the fisher plant were put on before the metal prep and sealer then obviously, Because as you strip the surface the TUR and the BTP were removed instantly and as the black was removed the rest appeared? The BTP and the color callout leave no "shadowing" as the rest of the codes did. The TUR was applied directly over were the D80 was written, And would have looked confusing, So the body was shot with Primer before it left the Fisher plant which would have covered the underlying codes.. The TUR was partially covered wih black paint when we go the car and I figured someone attacked the firewall with a rattle can years ago. And I did find the color code went under the heater box. A side note have seen several MOPARS with the name ROCK and ROCKY written in the trunk area on the wheelhouses, You never know what you will find!! Thanks again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

Not all BTP markings are on the firewall check out where these were found on the outer cowl areas along with other marks

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/HawaiianCamaro/Cars/Left20tulip20panel.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/HawaiianCamaro/Cars/PTB20marks202.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/HawaiianCamaro/Cars/PTB20marks.jpg

[musclecarz]

Hi Jon, I think the 37 code is a 437, Not written well but didn't need to be.. No bumper guards on the car.. The information and knowledge on this board is impossible to put a price on!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[All American Racer]

An old friend of mine worked at Dworin Chevrolet in East Hartford, CT. He was a young phenom when it came to drivability problems and he was given a new Corvette that the owner complained made a clunking noise when cornering. After many test drives he located the problem. A Coke bottle was left in the driver's side door. The note inside the bottle read "congratulations a$$hole-you found the noise.

[musclecarz]

Hi Jeff, I have seen these marks on Some of our F body Pontiacs, 1970-71 Trans am's, I have seen the markings on the forward face of the cowl as well as around the sides of the cowl. These cars obvoiusly were inspected with the fenders off the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[firstgenaddict]

I am not questioning the pictures and markings for documentation. I am all for that. I was questioning some restored cars use of grease / chalk marks over paint when originally they were under the paint merely for the appearance of a "highly detailed" ie percieved correct restoration. Even though the markings ahould be under the paint.

[William]

I agree with firstgenaddict. We did a '67 Z/28 years ago that was media blasted. I have several photos of the bare firewall with grease pencil stains all over it. "3L 2LG C08 Z-28 4L" are easily legible along with other markings that are not. The 2LG is partially obscured by the factory seam caulk. All of this was applied prior to any paint.

I have seen body color noted on the firewall after it was painted.

BTW the L89 in discussion was well known in the Milwaukee area when Pee Wee owned it. I sold him a VE3 bumper when the original was damaged.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I also agree with firstgen and William. Although sometimes guys put the markings on top of the black just out of error, not to deceive. It's not an easy thing to correct once the car is back together. Anyone have any suggestions?

[firstgenaddict]

Marlin you are right about it not being easy to correct after the car is complete.
Being that it is so hard to correct later makes the case for the research that needs to be done and the pictures that need to be taken before and during the dis-assembly process.

[musclecarz]

I'm with you 100%, I have seen a few cars that have way too many inspection marks and chalkings all over, To the untrained eye it is visually impressive, Great pictures of your 68 HO, car has alot of originality left, I like the black tint differences in your photo's, Different part vendors used different paint. alot of the components like inner fenders and core support look nice with a little contrast in color. tinted with a touch of red,green or blue.

[musclecarz]

Hi William, Awesome, Tht will explain the fact that we found Hugger orange paint on the bumper!! How long have you known of the car. I have pictures as far back as 74 when for insurance reasons they were taken to show damage caused by his disgruntled wife who took a baseball bat and smashed the windshield and beat the remote mirror right off the side of the car. I am told that he raced the car on a paved oval for a few years?? It also had 4.56 gears installed at the dealer when it was new, They are date code for the car original GM gears, The 4.10's are gone though. The car had 50 miles on it by the time the dealer sold it. Alot of test drives going on!! Invoise price on the car was a wopping $4930.00. We got all the GMAC paper work and service reciepts. We have the original HUMPHREY Diecast emblem for the rear panel but it is pitted, Any possibility of finding a nice one in your area!!

[William]

I first saw it around 1980. It had a light biff on a front corner that took out the bumper. At that time the L89 was not in it. The shop that repaired it added a ducted hood.

I don't think you bought it from Pee Wee but since he is circle track guy it wouldn't suprise me if it went around the track a few times. He has had a lot of Camaros, most recently a loaded '69 Z/28-RS, factory black with white houndstooth, VE3, N34, etc. Too messed with for me but striking nonetheless.

Humphrey Chev went out of business in the mid '70s so finding a nice emblem will be tough. They were a Hi-Perf dealership, sold Yenkos in '67 and many Corvettes. The building stood unused for years, finally razed about 10 years ago. Vacant lot now.

[musclecarz]

Great to hear from you William. I bought the car from a man in Michigan here named Dave Flores. He bought the car from Chris Gore in New Berlin where you live.. Pee Wee " Bob" sold the car in 1989 To Chris. He sold the car to Dave I believe in 1999, We purchased it that Fall. I have talked to Pee Wee but not Chris. It's awesome to be able to hear from people who have seen the car in it's early years, http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[hvychev]

Didn't Charley say once that he found a marijuana roach stuck in the padding of his carpet once in a Camaro? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chris396]

Sure he "found" it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[musclecarz]

Are you sure it wasn't that he got carpet pad stuck in the roach while in the Camaro?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Who's smoking carpet pad ?

[musclecarz]

Whew! Man,... I smell something???? Tell ya what it is.. A friend of mine a year ago bought the car that started the Indy 500 in 1989. A turbo Trans am. It was driven by Bobby Unser to start the race and awarded to Emerson Fidipaldi? Cars were built by PAS eng. Emersons wife didn't like the interior so they gave the car back to GM. Car was further modified and given to the Pres. of PAS. Then sold to the public. Anyways, He was driving the car the night before lasty and heard it ignite under the hood,, Always a bad sign!! Here is a pic of the actual starting and award car!! RIP

[resto4u]

That is one cooked bird. Any chances of bring it back? Roger

[musclecarz]

Hey Roger, Looking at it here in my driveway it would be seemingly impossible, But I know that anything can be fixed. Car only had 25,000 miles on it, It's a real shame,And I know years from now it will seem worse..

[resto4u]

That really sucks... Hope it was insured properly. Roger

[musclecarz]

Well Back into the car, We found a few small rust spots on the dash frame at the leading edge "typical spots", Well years ago we bought a NOS dash frame. So I take it into the shop and man This thing has way too many differences to even think about using it?? The speaker hole is not a square pattern like the original and the def. vents along the top are too long? It is a Camaro part but what the heck, Is this a late part or a Firebird also part?? Now I feel that I should have the original fixed?? Do I have the wrong part?? Any advise please!! Thanks Carl http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Supercar_Kid]

Wouldn't replacing the dash top require removing and reinstalling the VIN tag? I think I'd avoid doing that at all costs simply because it may raise eyebrows later on being that the car is an L-89. Purists will notice if the VIN rivets have been tampered with, and automatically assume the worst. My opinion is to get a good bodyman/welder to fix a little rust, and leave the original dash top intact.

[Nova Research Project]

musclecarz;

I have done some research on this. What is the part number?

Greg

[musclecarz]

Hi Greg, The part# is 8716458. What the heck is it!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[JoeG]

Very interesting post----I had to laugh when you said Mr Motto had signed your car---Last week was Peter Lorre week---showing all of his Mr Motto films--

[Nova Research Project]

musclecarz;

Believe it or not, it is listed in the 1962-1970 parts book as fitting the 69 Camaro. The 1965-1970 parts history does not show is as a replacement for anything.

Remember service parts are not always the same as assembly line parts.

[musclecarz]

Thanks , I cannot believe they made this part to replace what the cars came with!!, It is totally wrong, But would fit and function fine, I will post some pictures of the differences tonight.

[Mr70]

I show the same info.
And today is being repopped.
Modern Chevrolet has part #8716458 for $89.95.

[musclecarz]

Heres a quick idea of how it looks!!!

[musclecarz]

Note the different speaker hole perferation and the area in front of the passenger is cut completely out instead of cut out like a checkerboard? The vents are about a half inch longer at window base, Maybe all of these differences are for better def. function and crash safety??

[musclecarz]

Ok folks, I need your opinions, We will start shooting some paint in the next couple weeks and I wonder which way I should finish the bottom of the car, The bottom was blasted and primed some time ago so the original finish could not be photographed, I lean toward shooting the bottom totally with the Semi-black but have seen a few original primered shaft tunnels, Is this a product of haste in assembly and seldom seen?? Which would you consider more acceptable?? NOS chambered exhaust? Would you bolt it on or save it for the carand use the reproduction, Rivited sill plates? I don't want to take them out of the packages but save them for the car. I don't want the car to be a piece of furniture,And the thought of a "friend" dragging his or her feet across the sill plates is enough to make you cringe http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif When it's done we will enjoy the car and will most likely take it to the pure stock drags, The motor now has been balanced and got total seal rings. alot of attention to detail, Should run very strong!! I will use the NOS weaterstrip and wiskers and such as the repo just won't do on these cases.. What would you do !! Thanks Carl http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
When it's done we will enjoy the car and will most likely take it to the pure stock drags

[/ QUOTE ]

Now THAT is music to my ears! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[musclecarz]

You know it Rob, If there is one thing that has sparked a new excitment into the musclecar hobbie for us it is this race, We attended the first and have participated since!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif