KPH speedo's

[rpoz11]

Had a short discussion over the weekend with some friends. I am aware of the "KPH" speedo's existing for 1969 Camaro's. Was there ever a real application for these speedo's in Canadian Vehicles, COPO Camaro's, Camaro's, and possibly other and or all other Chevrolet vehicles and if so, what was the year this began? Thanx! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[John Brown]

If you look at the face of a speedo out of the dash you will find part the # for MPH and KPH stamped near the edge of the face. Quite a few kilo speedo's used to turn up at the Detroit area swap meets. There were always 200 (and up) kph 57-58-59 Chevy speedos there 20 yrs ago. There were probably Kilo speedos in all Canadaian cars.

[JChlupsa]

European Exported and Antwerp Camaros/Chevys got the KPH speedos as well

[MrMotion]

No KPH Speedo's in 67, 68, 69 Camaros that came to Canada, and never seen one for sale.

[rpoz11]

I am understanding the point you offer; I am considering the COPO Camaro's built in Canada-for example; and in the event GM did use the "KPH", at what year was this procees started? I was looking at a KPH from another Chevy from 1969-1970 and I had never seen one in this configuration, thus my inquiry here to establish the pattern... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO PETE]

Canada did not start putting KPH in vehicles till around 1976. And after that for a few years they came with both MPH and KPH on the speedo. So no 1969 Camaro or otherwise would have that KPHspeedo in it.
Peter

[rpoz11]

Ok, if this is the actual procedure at THAT time, why do we see occasionally the KPH 69 speedo's for the Camaro that has been doc'd?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Keith Tedford]

Camaros weren't being built in Canada until quite a few years later. Never saw a kph speedo here in those days.

[nova7579]

I have a 77 thru 79 Nova tach dash with the KPH speedo.
Brian

[Zedder]

Pete's correct...no KPH stuff in Canada until '76 or '77.

[John Brown]

Remember the question about kilo speedos in Canadian cars?

Here's a guy in the Detroit area that has a 200 MPH?? KPH?? speedo for an early Chevelle.

200 MPH?? KPH?? Speedo (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33643&item=7983857 181&rd=1)

I saw lots of 200?? speedos at the Detroit area swap meets that sort of fell onto someones lunch box. I was sure it wasn't Alzheimers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Keith Tedford]

It was quite common for stray parts to fall into lunch pails and pockets too. It can sometimes be pretty obvious, at the local flea markets, that the stuff must have been falling like snow into certain pails and pockets. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[70CitrusZ]

The kilo speedos were only for export to europe from what I understand.
We were all MPH till mid 70's here in Canada,road signs,speedos all mph.

[sssteve]

In Canada we didn't even know what the metric system was until about 1975.It began with weather temperatures (farenheit/celcius)in the mid 70's then road signs and speed limits/speedos in 1977 and so on in a progressive way over several years.I still don't know what a kilopascal(instead of lbs/sq in.) is but some day I'll get there.Anyway even though ALL speedo's in 69 were MPH some companies made overlay decals you could install in your dash.Some were crude others were quite detailed.I once bought a tach/gauge/speedminder set up for a 1972 chev P/U with KPH and thought this is neat, but when I took it apart I discovered it was just a decal(and a very convincing one)

[jannes_z-28]

Here is how a KPH Speedo from a '69 Camaro looks. All Camaros sold new in Sweden came like this. Later imports (cars sold new in the USA) had new faces from stickers. In those cases the trippmeter still count miles. The original KPH-speedo counts km.

http://www.protouring.se/files/kph_speedo.jpg


Jan

[COPO_Anders]

Welcome Jan ! You have to tell these guys some stories about the musclecars you saw in Stockholm back in the seventies.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[camarojoe]

That KPH speedo is cool as heck... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I want one!

[69motion]

im looking for a 68 speedo anyone

[Steve Drueck]

This is a 67 KPH which I bought out in Pleasanton CA about 10 years ago. The sticker is worn but the speedo is mint.

[Steve Drueck]

sticker

[William]

Steve Drueck? I know you...

Didn't you work for that CPX joint in Milwaukee??

[Mr70]

He owns D&R Classic Automotive now.

[JChlupsa]

you mean this place

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/dr.JPG

as in one of our sponsors here!!!

Wonder if that got me an extre 5% off http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Steve Drueck]

CPX was Doug Martz in Milwaukee. I don't know if they are still operating , Doug retired a few years ago. BTW yenko.net 'ers all get 10% off most items just mention the website or order online. You guys are the best and helpful in more ways that can be described. Not too many of you folks are getting the proper credit IMO.

[Steve Drueck]

Ever since Bill Glowacki (the foremost expert in Camaro'ism)left CPX I think they tanked. Nice work Billy, I still have my Camaro Identifier from 1987.......

[William]

Having some fun here dudes; Stevie and I go 'way back to when he was selling parts out of a garage.

Ahh yes, the Camaro Identifier. Between D&R, CPX and The Generals' Store [aka Mainly Weatherstrips] gross sales must have been $100k. The check for my end must be lost in the mail.

I have a lot of warm memories of what it was like 20 years ago. At SC-Indy we had THE best spaces in the joint, directly behind the 1st stands [at that time] for which Doug would slip Schroeder a whole $400 for the 3 days. It would take hours to walk the swap; a nice Rosewood was $35. By 10 on Saturday the parking lots at IRP were full. And I still remember talking with the Sievers' boys; they just paid $65,000 for an 8,000 mile RS ZL-1.

All true.

[scuncio]

I used to buy a lot of stuff from CPX back in high school. Haven't been back to the store in probably 4 years...last time I stopped by, the early Camaro/Chevelle used stuff was pretty scarce.

[William]

All gone now. CPX no longer exists.

[Mr70]

I recently bought literature from Doug Martz who is selling items on Ebay today.
There is a guy right now that sells reproduction car parts indoors at Jefferson every year,named Brad,that handed me a CPX Auto Parts flyer revised with his name on it.
His address shows 7552 W.Appleton Ave.Milwaukee Wisc.,but the Phone number is disconnected. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[scuncio]

That's sad...CPX was a cool place. I remember unloading a couple of nice Chevelle cowl hoods to CPX for $150 a piece so it's obviously been a while.

[William]

I unofficially worked at "7552" from '85-'97, leaving when Doug moved to NV. He busies himself by going to about every swap around trolling for rare literature/promo items to peddle on ebay.

Everything reminds me of a story and this is no exception. In the '70s Doug had a wrecked '69 convert rebuilt as a Z11 [who cared in those days?] and set to collect all of the promo items related to it. An inveterate card player, he had a local promotional company manufacture hundreds of decks of cards with the Z11 post card photo on the back, many of which were sold through Old Cars. I've seen them displayed as "rare promotional items"; you would think the 1976 copyright on the carton would be a clue.

Many names familiar to the hobby passed through the doors: Normann, Drueck, Cunneen, Esse, Hampton, Bulaw, Dyer, Pearse, to name a few and in the summer there were always neat cars around in addition to the '67 Z/28 and ZL1 that lived there.

As I said, all gone now.

[vintagegz]

thought I should sneak in here, 1978 was the first year for metric speedometers in Canada. Before that time we built CKD (Complet Knock Down ) cars that were sent to Europe, South Africa , South America and Australia. These would of had metric speedometers from the factory. Domestic Canadian cars were labelled Drive 1, cars built in Canada for shipping to the U.S. were Drive 5, export overseas were usually Drive 3. Drive 3 cars would have a metric speedometer. Hope this helps, your friend in the archives.

[Belair62]

William...why would you let Normann and Bulaw in the building ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif........BTW I think it's great to have George Zapora contributing... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[William]

They agreed to pay triple-list price...

That's a joke BTW. Doug was so cheap Z&Z or Heartbeat would often buy our entire Hemmings ad for our asking prices.

Z&Z was an experience. Heaps of parts everywhere. We were in his office talking about Z11s and he mentions he has one, a BB/4-speed. It was parked about 20 feet away and you absolutely couldn't see it.

[Xplantdad]

William...where was Z & Z...? I vaguely remember a place like that in SoCal...it started out in Garden Grove...then moved to the city of Orange...same place? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[William]

When I was in contact with them they were in Orange County CA. We would pay a courtesy call when in CA shopping the Pick-A-Parts prior to Pomona. They asked murderous prices for stuff; don't know how he stayed in business. They are gone also; liquidated a couple years ago.

If you have been in the hobby a really long time you will remember Bob Wingate..

[Belair62]

Wingate ads in the old Cars & Parts were cool...he handled a lot of iron.

[Xplantdad]

Yep...it's the same place then...I got big block pulleys from him for my Nova way back when (circa 1979)...he WAS a ripoff...that's why I started going to pick your part, too! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Steve Drueck]

Billy they didn't stay in business, John would ask prices like $700 for a 67 plain console, back when they were worth $100, then keep accumulating stuff so deep it would get trashed. They were on Lemon ST in Orange CA. People would drive in rust free cars and sell them for a couple hundred dollars. Tow trucks would bring Camaros in on the hook. They got way behind on the money with the landlord (allegedly) and finally there was a liquidation auction where a lot of stuff got sold for cheap. Most of the cars and good stuff went to Dan Ruth in Perris before it went down, and he got posession of most of the cars and parts he moved up there eventually through another legal deal (allegedly) When John called me he was still asking heaps of money so it wasn't worth moving it all east. This was all many years ago. Last time I saw Dan Ruth he was tricking out Hummers. He sold most of the Camaro stuff. Dan's a good guy always tinkering with something. Z & Z had a lot of rare cool stuff, too bad it ended that way. Unfortunately there was a long string of customers over the years that were unhappy with the parts they received for the price they paid. I guess if they kept them until today, the prices would have caught up by now! I saw John a while ago at Pomona, he still sets up far down on Chevy row from us now and them. Dougie was very cheap on available parts, but you always told me they were "stolen" , say it ain't so! Maybe having no kids to feed and inheriting a GM store kept the overhead down a bit too! And those $30 rosewood wheels, and $100 12 bolt posi rears. well, as you say, all true. aaahhh the good ole' days!

[Xplantdad]

Steve...that's definitely the place. I ended up living close to Shaffer St. and Chapman Ave. in old town Orange. I would walk right by that place a couple of times a week... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Steve Drueck]

Bruce we may have met at Long Beach or Pomona if you went there. Do you have any photos of Z&Z ?

Z&Z Auto
C&C Classics
US Muscle Camaro
The Camaro Cannibal (Minneapolis)
National Camaro
Jerry's Classics
Chevy Parts Warehouse
Jack Coopers MuscleCars
Jerry Marmon (Carolina Camaro?)
Landmark Classics
Harold Young Camaro Classics
A&W Camaro
Thunder Road Classics Muscle Parts
Paddock West
Classic Reproductions (Jerry LaShure)
CPX (Camaro Parts Exchange)
Arizona GM Retail
American Classics (Div of Moroso)
American Chevelle and Camaro(Bill Harris)

All gone

[Xplantdad]

Steve,
We may have....Sorry I don't have any photos of Z&Z http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Mr70]

Forgive me for getting off topic here guys.
Wow Steve...That list is a timecapsule in it's self.
I was a weekly customer of Bill Harris who owned/ran American Chevelle here in Waukegan and later Zion,and then became Speed Sport Automotive.
He & I constantly did trading & selling.Is he still around?
I really liked him..I thought he told me he was a mechanic at Brigance Chevrolet too.

I still have all the old Business cards from those I visited/bought from in the Late 1970's early 1980's.
Some are still w/us,some are not:

*Dennis Dunlap-D&D Musclecars & Parts
*Brad Bradley-Rapid Transit Systems
*Bob Broome-A.B. Performance
*Ron Norman-McHenry Classic
*Chuck Schuster-Parts Finders in Menomonee Falls Wisc.
*Jerry Buller-Camaro Country
*Larry Gueths-Parts Finders in McHenry Il.
*Doug Lakosh-Gm Parts & Acc.
*Dan Leahy-GM Muscle
*Mike Walker-Camaros Unlimited
*Mike & Tom-N.O.S. Numbers Our Speciality locating Service.
*Jack Pustil-International Speedometer on Irving Park Rd.
*And you can't have a list like this w/o good Ole Loveable Ralph at Chicago Muscle Car Parts.I remember visiting his shop in the Winter full of space heaters when he was in the city an he's still out every local swapmeet at 6AM today. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[William]

Jerry LaShure set up at a Corvette swap in Milwaukee maybe around 1980 with a score he figured to make a pile on. He had a dozen or so NOS red line '67 Corvette Goodyear tires. The 'vette guys all had a good laugh-they were 7.35 x 15, not the 7.75s Corvettes used. No one knew what they really belonged on; he probably threw them out.

I believe Bill Harris recently passed away. Plenty of Billy Harris stories out there.

[Steve Drueck]

I bet there was a KPH somewhere in their inventories. (staying on subject??) Billy Harris ended up heading south to a place called Iuka, MS . He sold his trailer and goods way back when and left some tire tracks and a streak of red ink behind. He was exteremely good with Chevelles, and NOS parts. I remember him talking about his years in the service dept at Brigance or McInerny, remember in the day on Monday morning the 70 Chevelles would be lined up outside the service dept after a hard day at the track Sunday!! Lots of those engines were supposed to be hit with a sledge hammer to destroy them after warranty work, rather than return the cores. Wonder how many got a second life years later! Your list looks like a Vettefest in 1985 many are still with us, Ron, Chuck, Jerry, Doug , Dan and Mike some disappeared, Ralphie had the garage on Ottawa in Harwood Heights and drove a van he called the "Love Machine" I think it was held together by the rust! We used to run laps at the high school at midnight he is an encyclopedia of Firebirds and Pontiacs. Jerry LaShure re-surfaced about 8 years ago and sold me his literature collection and was making sports collectibles. His ex-partner Fred is still buying every big block Chevelle convert he can steal, and has lots of cool cars. Brad Bradley was running the CPX store.You can find him now at http://wcca.wicourts.gov the others I lost track of, you might know possibly. There also was a local shop that briefly sold GM perf stuff called Parts Performance, The Fiberglass Shop in Addison, and of course there still is the famous Chevy Shop on Cicero AV south of Addison Av. Wonder how many Nickey motors went through those doors at the time! And MSR (Motor Sport Research) didn't they always have a couple of Z28 crossrams in the display case) Madison Classics Gary Esse (king of NOS) and Mainly Vettes and Bill and Dale (the Pekin Boys) probably round out the bunch no wonder there are so many COPO's Yenko's and ZL-1's right here in the area. Its been very active since day 1 with dealers like Mr. Norms Nickey and Jack Douglass and Gibb Chevrolet in the area, not to mention Hult, Dale, Yunkers, and lots of others. zzzzzzzzzzzzz ok wake up everybody

[Xplantdad]

Wow Steve...Cool info! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Nobody is sleeping http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[scuncio]

I always figured the rumors about Brad B. were just rumors!

[Mr70]

"His ex-partner Fred is still buying every big block Chevelle convert he can steal,"
Ha!...He just bought George O's.

[William]

Vettefest '85: the good 'ol days!!

If the motoring public didn't know then they do now: Vendors got to be pretty good friends. This led to a certain amount of parts/customer/info sharing. Problem solving was also an issue. Maybe Stevie remembers who did this; I do not. But it is kind of funny.

In those days there were a lot of parts still available from GM and all of us had them on display, usually in the original packaging. Everyone knew someone that worked for a dealer so certain people would walk around with a notebook recording part numbers off your inventory. One vendor really tired of this and came up with a plan. He went throught the P & A price book and came up with a couple dozen non-returnable part numbers with huge prices. He then had labels printed with these numbers and pasted them on all his packaging. Some poor schmuck trying to save a few bucks on a rear view mirror would unwittingly order something really miserable like a school bus frame.

"That will teach 'em" said the vendor.

Don't know if anything like that ever happened but GMPD did change its ordering policy around that time.

[Mr70]

Don't know if he did that,but it sounds like a classic Chuck Voelker move to me.
May he rest in peace.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[William]

Don't believe so. He was exclusively NOS. I remember because he unloaded some Corvair parts for us, which most vendors avoided like the plague.

[John Brown]

Was the 1985 event still at Arlington Park or at the Amphitheater? Back in the early years Als' meets were really good buying meets, at least for me.

[William]

Whichever, we did 'em both. The Amphitheatre was in a rough neighborhood as I recall. We were sitting in a nearby restaurant about 5 am when some drunk rolls in. He gets obnoxious with the guy behind the register who immediately belts him a couple times, comes around the counter and drags him out the door. Guess he knew his clientele.

Ever go to La Porte or the swaps at Notre Dame?

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
The Amphitheatre was in a rough neighborhood as I recall

[/ QUOTE ]
William...that would be an understatement !

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever go to La Porte or the swaps at Notre Dame?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did LaPorte, at Notre Dame #2 I was the only one selling Camaro parts at a Corvette swap (really did good!!), Aurora, Alsip, St. Charles (in September), Wheaton, Belvidere, Grayslake early on, Sante Fe Speedway~wow!!, Iola, Jefferson, Elkhorn, Crown Point, Valpo, Maumee Oh, Wapokeneta Oh, Bowling Green Oh, Indy 500 Infield~BIG WoW!!, Super Chevy Indy from day one, LaSalle Illinois Speedway, Peotone (since 1979), and about everything else I could find since 1972. Started out selling my "obsolete" drag car leftovers. Found there was more joy in buying than selling. After all, it's not what you sell it for, it's all about what you bought it for. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Steve Drueck]

"His ex-partner Fred is still buying every big block Chevelle convert he can steal,"
"Ha!...He just bought George O's. "

George -O is Magnific-o !! that's a steal at any price, just wait 5 years and see. Hard to describe the perfection of George's work especially on a T-Bird, Camaro or Chevelle. Way to go Fred!

[Steve Drueck]

Billy I thought the bus frame was LaKosh's idea, especially cause it was non-returnable. Maybe Rudser. GM made many large items call-back items around that time, which meant they would call the dealer to confirm the accuracy and quantity of the order. At least in our zone. For folk's who don't know it, GM used to be the 98% supplier of resto parts in the mid 80's. So you could spend hundreds of hours in a parts dept poring over GM Master Parts books, Parts History books, and just plain ordering anything you could out of a group number to see what would fit or look OK for a Chevy. Often it was a tedious and expensive route as items got tossed and hundreds of hours might only yield a couple of good parts. Just because Chevy listed a part for a Camaro didn't mean it wasn't a "replacement" part that didn't resemble the original very much. Also at that time you could only order Chevy parts from a "Chevy" dealer, B-O-P Cad parts had to be ordered at their respective dealers. So you also had to connect with other GM lines to find acceptable parts to restore a 60's Camaro/Chevelle. It was a tedious task, I remember spending hours and hours in the parts dept at my nearest dealer Keystone Chev (formerly Nickey) they just let me look up and order all my own stuff. Some people thought I worked there. If you persevered, there were a few treasures to be found, like trim rings only sold by Olds, Caddilac smog pulleys, or horn contacts for Corvettes. Nowadays, GM has discontinued about 98% of workable parts, so Chevy dealers now have to call aftermarket suppliers for parts if they have a Camaro or Chevelle in the shop. In fact, GM part labels are now printed and stuck on aftermarket parts as GM still wants a piece of the revenue. But back then, between pushing a baby in a stroller (playing with a $30 Rosewood), nursing a leaky trans on a rusty tow vehicle, and trying to feed the kids and pay rent on 5 garages, the practice of razoring off part numbers or switching wrappers was a common practice for trying to squeak out a living. I remember a few of the people you mentioned that used to write down part numbers at swap meets, I bet they still have a few C10 Pickup bed assemblies in their garage that they got by accident. That was all in fun, but unfortunately yesterday and today, there was and still is rampant fraud in the markets with unscrupulous dealers trying to pass off fake cars and parts, today its Ebay that attracts the majority of them, so folks beware, if a dealer just popped up out of "nowhere" selling parts or cars, chances are they will soon return there, when you find out you've been had. This website is the most fantastic place that gives folks the help they it need. And the efforts and time involved mostly go unrecognized. That's why http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[Belair62]

I agree about George O...he freshened up the underside of my Y Camaro a couple years ago. Steve it's great to have such a well established and knowledgeable parts supplier sponsor this site. Thanks

[William]

Hoo boy, Rudser!! Aka Lo-Gross or Wholesale Larry, he was a character. I remember him circa January 1984 in line at Bill Jacobs. It's 15º and most of us have coffee; Larry has a Bud.

Speaking of GM parts availability I doubt the motoring public knew that GMPD Canada was not the same as GMPD US. Parts that were n/a here sometimes were still in the books there and vice versa. The real angle was prices were often different, sometimes dramatically. We used to buy 69-70 Chevelle exhaust tips by the dozen and parcel them out profitably to other vendors under US dealer net. There were all sorts of other angles: buying the $8 truck AM/FM antenna accessory kit that was mostly the same stuff used on cars, getting new 480 distributors direct from Delco for $100 less than GMPD, wheels direct from Kelsey. One odd part was the 69-70 deep groove alternator pulley. It was actually made for aviation use; buy direct for about 1/2 of GMPD wholesale. There was also some angle on COPO Camaro upper radiator hoses but I do not remember what it was. For a while we had a lot of them.

One of of my jobs was going through the P & A price book the day it arrived looking for parts that had gone non-returnable. That was a good indication they were still available but discountinued. Sometimes they just forgot the R which is how we ended up with 40 pair of 69 Chevelle front fenders.

But for every angle you found GMPD would have one for you. Order 69 Camaro 396 emblems and receieve 70 Nova 396 emblems, 1-piece rotors were sent under the 2-piece part number, 68 Z/28 rocker covers became chromed 69s, etc. If it fit and functioned that was good enough for GM. Although sheet metal was still available in the early 90s the fit was very poor, heard lots of complaints.

[John Brown]

Not only were the 1111480 distributors cheaper direct from Delco, they were still available after Chevy was sold out. (I was working for a warehouse at the time.) The last one I got from Delco was a restamp from the factory. Sold it in the blue stamped Delco (not a label) box as a core last year. I also had friends at several GM dealerships that were on different inventory systems who would give me a copy of their printouts or let me search on their computer system. I used to pull obsolete parts from dealer stock all over the country. Could buy Holley carbs cheaper from Roy Johnson than we could get them direct from Holley too. Not many people were aware of the date stamps back then either. Wish I had it all back to sell at todays prices!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[William]

The Delco piece I should have a case of is distributor housings-cheap and unstamped. We supplied them to someone..

All breaker point stuff went away one day, just like that.

[Mr70]

I remember over buying a lot of new GM parts between 1979-86 when driveway restoring a few Chevelles..I usually went back to Long Chevrolet or C&E in Elmhurst and got a full refund or credit and feeling good about it.
Seeing how much those same parts are selling for today..I feel sick. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[rpoz11]

[ QUOTE ]
William...where was Z & Z...? I vaguely remember a place like that in SoCal...it started out in Garden Grove...then moved to the city of Orange...same place? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Z&Z existed on Lemon street in Orange, Calif...Originally started by a family named Zinder(maybe it was Zander...anyways), thus Zinder and Zinder, Thus Z&Z. The boys went to a local college who knew this kid they schooled with and got a job there for some income needs, and eventually made a lease agreement to operate the place but still owned by the Zinder family...
In time, that guy made back door deals with the local yards to get the local F-Bodies into his warehouse, sort of a finders fee.
Well , in time, John let's say opperated the place inappropriately, and couldnt keep up with the local city chamber of commerce who were trying to close him down.
He hung on for a while, protected by local laws and eventually got caught up in all the debt accrued due to his opperating philosophies...
Today it is a brake replacement/supplier and the old building still stands as it is protected under an old building law due to it's age!

Quote:William...
"Z&Z was an experience. Heaps of parts everywhere. We were in his office talking about Z11s and he mentions he has one, a BB/4-speed. It was parked about 20 feet away and you absolutely couldn't see it...."

That car existed, and it was a REAL VN 396 car that was a few VIN #'s after mine, a 4-speed car. He would never sell it; don't know who ended up with it!



I used to work there one summer... Man the things he used to have in there!
One day I was climbing around the place, mind you that is EXACTLY how much stuff he used to have, and found a locker in the back.
I opened it and found about 30 Rosewood's in it, most were mint to slightly cracked!!!
He used to have stacks of interiors and one pile had about 5 sets of Deluxe Yellow interiors in it!
Even 2 sets of Orange interiors too!


I tried to buy a 1970 LeMans Blue 396 Camaro and I almost had it but he backed away at the very last moment!!!

There was a Cobra in the paint booth with a FibreGlass Body tool/die to make bodies with as well sitting right behind it in the booth. There was also another Cobra at his house under lock and key, cant remember what engine it had, I was only able to see it once!

Man O Man...alll the stuff he had would have made you cry! Stubbings probably would have bought it all had it been better known at the time...There was enough rare things in there to do many cars, or at least to repair broken items with....
Sad day to see that place go down!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Mr70]

This original KPH speedo topic has really evolved into another.
They are both excellent reading,so can I ask that a Moderator/Administrator seperate the two,and start a new topic begining with Williams reply #189940...Maybe renaming it "Past Parts Vendors and Stories"
You might want to cut & paste vintagegz's reply# 190638 into the KPH Speedo thread,but from then on we should be able to keep these two topics seperate for future reference..
THANK YOU! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

[Steve Drueck]

Billy good point ! Yes we too ordered Rally wheel centers and Chevelle exh tips by the dozens, it was more a situation where GM set the price and then forgot to make adjustment for the USD CAD currency changes. In 2002 if you swapped $100K into Canadian dollars and held them until today you would get back almost $140,000. (A tip of the hat to our friends up north!)
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=CAD&amt=1&t=5y The reality is that muscle cars and real estate aren't really going up in "value", your dollar is worth less, and it takes more to buy everything. This is why a lot of wealthy investors buy expensive classic cars, precious metals , and real estate, because if they sit on cash it loses value just sitting in a CD. Oh the days of $28 rally wheel center caps, now they are over $100 list at GM ....yikes!

[67hugger]

Hello Steve,
I'm the guy who sold you that 200 kph speedo in Pleasanton many years ago. I still have the export car it came out of. Do you still have the speedo? I'm wondering what it would take to get it back?

Thanks,
Len

[al8apex]

look what I still have in my card file ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/JimRohn/71cam/zzcard.jpg

[Xplantdad]

I could walk there in about 5 minutes from our Ca. residence <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif