Nova ID

[NovaPwr]

Hi guys, I joined this forum to help out an old friend with a 69 427 Nova. This was my car originally, purchased in 75 in Witchita Falls Texas while in jet fighter school. I sold it in 85 (after I pulled the engine)and when my friend retired from the military and came home, he stumbled across the car. I never thought it was a special car but recently he talked to some guy from the fall Carlisle show and within a week some guy showed up to look at it and asked all kinds of questions about the cars history, then made him a very generous offer. I found limited info about these cars on line and came here to see if the VIN or build sheet would help ID the car as he has both. When I bought it , it had a CE numbered 427. It was a 4-speed car. Snowflake intake and a great big three barrel Holley carb. Had a Mallory dual point distributor. Had a steel scattershield, factory bench seat but someone had changed it out for buckets. Had an L-88 fiberglass hood, 12 bolt, electric fuel pump, I was thinking it had two but one was bad when I bought it and I put on a Holley. Had the small block heater cover. It was 6 years old when I got it so who knows what it was to begin with. It had power discs and manual steering I do remember that too. I have a couple pics of it right after I bought it. It had no special markings or emblems other than the SS emblems. My friend does not have a computer so he asked me to research this for him. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dave

[GM-26]

If you have pictures of the car, I would post them. Possibly, someone here may have owned it before you and can provide some history about the car.

[Belair62]

Any idea what dealer it was sold new out of ?

[NovaPwr]

No, I bought it from an individual in Texas. Never asked where he got it from.

[NovaPwr]

I will do that tomorrow evening. Thanks for the reply.

[resto4u]

What does the buildsheet say? That should tell you the dealer and engine and anything you need to know. Please post pic of buildsheet and car. Roger

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nova's rarely have a formal buildsheet as seen in Chevelle's and LA Camaro's, however, they do contain a broadcast sheet in the passenger side rear seats. In '69 the Nova's still had the engine code on the broadcast sheet - usually, if it was a BB, then the code is almost always there. So, try to find the broadcast sheet, it's rather small, maybe 5" by 8", and full of numbers that don't appear to mean anything. If you find it, we'll decode it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[NovaPwr]

Here is a picture of the build sheet if I can figure out how to send it.

[Belair62]

It's very readable and clear to me.

[Mr70]

It looks like:
B55-Deluxe frt. seat cushion
B90-Door & window frame moulding
D34-Visor Vanity Mirror
L48-350 small block engine
N10-Dual Exhaust
ZJ1-Custom Interior
ZJ2-Custom exterior
Code 61 Burnished Brown
Code 732 Black Custom Vinyl Bench seat
Built March 28 1969

[Motion Camaro]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif <font color="blue"> Good read, Rick http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif </font>

[NovaPwr]

Thanks for the decode! Does that mean it is not anything special then?

[COPO]

I would suspect it is not an original Bladwin Motion car based on the fact that the car started as a small block. By 1969 the converted cars almost always started life an an L-78. This not only made the 427 swap easy, but also made the economics work as Baldwin Chev. would re-sell the L-78 short block that was removed. Of course you could send Joel Rosen your info along with a check and he will let you know, but at this point it might not be a good gamble, although the pay-off would be a big one if it is legit. Good luck and keep researching.

[NovaPwr]

Thanks guys.

[Pantera]

I have to agree with Copo, If it was a real Motion, it might/should have a sheet more like this one.

I find it strange that this one is so different than his. Was that a different plant that built it?

[Belair62]

Maybe another dealer converted it back then . Time to try and trace the pre-75 history...who knows.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

An NICB report would be useful too.

[Pantera]

The problem with dropping a BB in a SB car is that you have or should change too much to make it work like it should. Shocks, swaybar, front springs, radiator, heater outlets, and more, just make it foolish to start with a SB car when the cost is not that much more for a BB plus you have the old motor to resell.

He might want to look closer at the Hood? Motion hoods are distinctive! Not like anyone else ever used. If that is the correct one then just perhaps, the car could have been a hot SB from Motion and later got a BB transplant?

I agree with Belair, the NICB report will show the original dealer and if it was Baldwin or a close NY dealer to Motion then he just may have a winner there?

It would be great if he could trace the car back to a previous owner for more info. After all this time it is a almost impossible task. That I know for sure from my quest to locate any prior owners of my 69 Motion Vette.

[NovaPwr]

I don't know what a NCIB report is. Was it something located on the car somewhere like the buildsheet was?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nope, it's the National Insurance Crime Bureau or something like that. It's a piece of paper that tells you where your car was sold new, maybe more. It's also very hard to obtain, you usually need to know somebody pretty high up in law enforcement.

[smooth]

Joel used alot of small block cars in the 70s. they were cheaper base cars. Motion 1 has severalmotion cars and all but one started as a small block. all after 1970. TIM

[Belair62]

more digging is in order if it was my car !

[Pantera]

The use of SB cars seems strange to me. His dealer cost on a BB car would not be that much more of a difference over a SB. The main reason is that he could sell the L-78 motor to the boat racers and then his cost of the CE L-88 motor would be very little difference in cost if any at all.

Now you say after '70 he used SB cars? Perhaps after Baldwin Chev. closed in '74 that advantage was lost? Perhaps those SB car's are just Motion conversions done for someone and not a car he bought from a dealer and modified for sale.

After 1974 he was more into the Maco conversions and didn't make any more Phase III GT's unless someone really wanted one.

We just don't have enough data on these cars from Joel. There are very few pic of the "Baldwin GT" cars. Until I showed up with my '70 BM documented car nobody even knew it existed. Joel himself had thought it was totaled shortly after it was built becase the owner had called him and told him he wrecked it.




I know the two cars that I have were both original BB cars?
We can only hope with time that we gain more knowledge about what he did.

[COPO]

In '67 the first BM Camaro was a small block SS 350 car, thereafter, they seemed to all start as BB L-78 cars until the 70's. The '71 BM Camaro I owned started as a Z-28. My '69 BM Camaro and '67 BM Chevelle both started as L-78's.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I agree with Belair, keep digging. Nobody knows if there was logic to what Motion started with, either a SB or a BB. Switching over to a BB is not that big of a deal if the buyer is getting a lot of speed parts installed anyway. The biggest issue is usually the cooling system, the rad is an easy change, and the heater hoses will still fit. Anything is possible, I've seen SB conversions in some old Chevy Action mag's.

[Yellow 69 z28]

Ditto for me also! My 69 Daytona Yellow B/M started as a Z/28.

[COPO]

[ QUOTE ]
My 69 Daytona Yellow B/M started as a Z/28.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't heard about this car. Give us some details and let's see some pictures.