Why was Zedders topic locked? I had a nice reply?

[hugger_69]

Zedder,

Don't know why your thread was locked, I had a lengthy reply for you but it was locked before I could post. Maybe one of the admins could chime in. I was the one who had the documents listed for sale and only the warranty manuals were copies. I bought them as real but saw where some overlooked the original marks on the staple holes when they most likely laser copied them. Other than that, they were nice. Its good to know that there are no copyrights listed within the pages so obviously nothing wrong with them being out there. They were bought off Hemmings to make for 2 complete sets and were offered for sale along with my other docs. The owners manuals are originals (hence the marks on the covers and freyed edges) and Data cards are NOS paper bought years ago in Portland.

Both sets were sold within an hours of the auction going up and sold to a guy out east who wants more paper for his already Cdn documented Chevelles. Wish I had more but no go. I do have one remaining original owners manual if you'd like to buy it at $100.00, and a think I have a couple 69 dealer catalogues left at 450.00 if your interested. I will likely list them on eBay once I dig them out. Sorry you took such offence to paper being sold Mark, but it's nothing new and is bought sold all the time. As a matter of fact, there isn't muich you can't buy in terms of paper. Maybe it's just that it's out on eBay that you took offence to it.

Sorry dude!

Graeme

[Belair62]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Wasn't me !!

[JChlupsa]

I closed is as the thread at TC was no longer good. So instead of others keep saying that its no longer there it was closed.

[hugger_69]

I see said the blind man. Thanks for the explanation Jeff. The link was killed within a couple hours of the items being offered as they sold quickly.

[Chevy454]

Jeff moves fast for a BIG guy!

[Jeff H]

I have some window sticker copies that the guy thought were real GM sheets. He was real nice and gave them to me. After I looked at them closely and compared to some real window stickers, you could tell they were not GM. But they smell nice and musty like they could be 30+ years old. I have no intention of doing anything with them and I can't even remember where I put them.

[hugger_69]

Sounds like an old Pre Delivery sheet a good friend gave me a couple years ago. It was sealed in a plastic sleeve and when I opened it, it had the same old smell and feel about it. I think it was real as I compared it with a fake one I had and the 2 were a world apart. Sadly, enough I can no longer find that one. One of these days it will show up with a world of other stuff I have locked away somewhere. Thats the bad part about being an old safe and vault guy. Too many places to lock things up and never enough time to look for the things you've lost.

[Zedder]

Graeme, I did not take offence personally to you selling blank, fake GM documents and I certainly would not be interested in buying any of them. My personal opinion is that no one should feel OK selling bogus paperwork, or bogus cars for that matter - whether they gift wrap it in BS quotes like "for novelty use only" etc. or not. Someone, someday will present those docs as original and potentially hurt an unkowing purchaser - even if by tarnishing a legitimate car with fake paper. Whether you care to associate yourself with selling fake items is your business. I just posted the link to forewarn other members of the level of BS that can be bought today (frankly, I did not know you were a member here until someone informed me of the fact).

As for copywrite infringement, think again...those docs had the GM trademark all over them and as such cannot be legally copied and sold.

If you are OK with selling this stuff, then good luck to you.

[Zedder]

I should also mention that Jeff PM'd me and explained why he locked the thread to make sure I understood...so no foul there.

Graeme, I'll also add that I found your ad shocking because I had never seen bogus GM of Canada docs before. I guess now I'll second guess every one of those I see! Thanks for the indirect heads up!

[hugger_69]

I guess you really weren't listening to what I was saying above Mark. Four out of the six pieces sold are GM originals Mark. Furthermore, the last couple pieces I have left are also originals and those were the ones I offered to you. Not blank clones or whatever you want to call them. There are not a lot of GM Canada clone documents floating around. These were 2 pieces Mark, not truck loads. All I set out to do was obtain 2 more originals so I could sell a couple nice sets to people I know, but the 2 I bought through another vendor turned out to be copies. With that bieng said, I decided to forego that quest and blew them off on eBay for what was still good money. They didn't cost me a lot so it's no big dealo and I wasn't the one who made them so i'm not gonna lose any sleep on the matter. I'm sure there will be more reproductions made in the years to come. With a pressing hobby that keeps escalating in dollars, it's inevitable.

Cheers!

[hvychev]

Zedder, Those docs look pretty new. I think they might be hard to pass off as real? I don't know cause I have never seen real Canadian ones. If someone was uneducated enough to believe they were real.... then??? Just a thought.

[hugger_69]

The owners manuals for Canada are extremely rare and are very hard to find. So much so that I have only ever seen 2 originals on eBay, and I bought them both beacuse they are that rare. One was 65.00 a few years ago, and the second one was real nice and I paid 145.00 for it. I have only ever seen one warranty manual which I also bought(40.00) but it has writing in it and came from an Impala. A couple years ago I bought a dozen NOS data cards (100.00)at the portland swap meet and two of the last three just sold with these sets. I'm going to work on my car for a few hours tonight and when I get back in, I will post some close up shots of the ones that I sold. That will clear up any misconception that they appear as new. Close ups without the flash will clearly show battle scars and old paper with stains. Hope that suffices for you.

[Zedder]

Thanks Hugger...I haven't owned a Canadian car in years, so I don't need any Canadian paperwork at this point. Thanks for the offer anyway. I guess the other part that caught me strange about your post was that the email address was something like "[email protected]", which lead me to beleive the seller was in the business of selling these pieces. Again, I did not know it was you or a member of this site.

Hvychvy: Yes, they looked new to me also, but as most know, the counterfieters can make those look aged quite easily with a little tea and sunlight. In the mid 90's I was more involved with NCRS judging in the Bow Tie (unrestored class) and the stories of how people were making new parts and paperwork look old were unbelievable!

I think I am particulary sensitive to this after the problems that arose last year with a car that I was looking to purchase. The car was real and the seller was being honest with me, but someone 20 years prior had made up a fake buildsheet and caused us all a lot of greif. As much as all of this comes with the teritory as these cars get more and more expensive, it doesn't make it any more acceptable to me. We all have different tolerance levels for fake paperwork, restamps, rebodies etc. and I guess I am just one of those who are not overly tolerant.

Thanks for explaining your point of view...

[camarojoe]

Hugger69, Are you talking about the standard owners manual that came in the glovebox? Wouldn't they have came in every car sold new in Canada? Maybe not as common as a US owners manual, but I wouldn't think they could be too extremely rare.

[Mr70]

I find the Canadian Literature facsinating.I have amased a bunch of owners manuals for all cars written in French,& also English,both available in Canada.
I have warranty folders that are half written in english,then turn it around to the other side to find it all in french.
I have 1968-71 Chevrolet Canadian dealer showroom posters,product previews,Dealer albums,all car brouchures,merchandising Catalogs,Window trim,Paint & fabric boards,ceiling danglers,all written in French,with artwork slightly different from the US version....Ay! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif