Baldwin/Motion Phase III GT Corvettes

[55chevy]

A friend and I are trying to timeline and sort out which Phase III GT Corvettes are of the original 9 Built "true" BALDWIN/MOTION GT cars between 1969 and 1971.. Not just "Motion converted" cars.. Joel and is crew made 10 B/M GT Vettes but one was destroyed in a fire when new as has been verified public knowlege.. so 9 "Should" still exist.. or did for a while anyway. we are pretty sure about 3-4 of them.. Any solid info anyone can chime in with will surely help figure this out.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Btw.. this is just to gain knowlege of these rare beasts and answer some persisting questions.. No monitary gain to be made in this endeaver for info at all.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[55chevy]

the Daryl Dodd blue/white 69 GT Vette.. Does this car have the slant back GT rear window?? I can't find a clear pic showing it.. Also, I know it started life as a B/M Phase III L71 car then converted later to a full GT LS6 car after an accident and blown engine.. Is this Vette considered one of the "original" B/M GTs?? Or is it an after the fact car like a few others are? Anyone know for sure? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JoeG]

HAPPY NEW YEAR--------- http://www.yenko.net/attachments/113550-v22222222222222222222.jpg

[55chevy]

So it DOES have the stock rear glass.. I'll be damned... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif THANKS JOE http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[55chevy]

Ed

Sent you a PM

[55chevy]

Ed, Feel free to post your Motion Info in additional posts below.

[Pantera]

Looking st the rear shot of the Orange/black car I feel it must be one that was made near time of the Yellow/Black car of Dan's. I base this on the size of the Taillights are the same as Dans car and bigger than George's or my 70 have.

I notice that as time passed, Joel, made each cars taillights just a little wider and taller.

Pantera

[55chevy]

I had the same thought.. Of course you are refering to the GT with the Dodge Charger fuel filler. .. Same thing about the Dodd blue/white converted-to-GT car.. We know it was done around mid 1970, likely after your white/gold 70 was built.. It has the same big slot tail lights. Could it be Joel had different people mod these cars at the different times they were made??? and that's just how they came out?? It doesn't look like there was any kind of set dimensions or stencils used to create the tailights.. Just an "idea" of what to make them look like??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

what are the tail lights out of ? or were they just cut in with red plastc behind them ...

[Pantera]

Mine has some old wavy surface red plastic in them. There is a old olds taillight bucket behind them for the bulbs to work in, at least that is what I have been told. ??? No way to know for sure at this time. I had to drill and put a screw into the plastic because it was slipping down out of place when I first got it.

Pantera

[55chevy]

Thats a good question and I think the cars owners or those who've gotten close up to inspect them are best to answer that but I'll give a shot with what I know. The gold/black car with pillar scoops looks to have 67/68 Firebird tail light lenses mounted in a custom tail panel.. I know the lenses on Pantaras White/Gold car are just clear/red plasic cut to fit the opening and installed with a flathead screw at either end.. I do not know what is "behind" the lenses though... I've heard 'rumors' that the panels were installed over top of the stock rear tail lights on some cars and illuminated that way.. but I have no idea if that is fact or just rumor.. I've not seen that with my own eyes.. I'm sure Pantara knows what is behind the lenses on his 70.. I didn't take the time to look and just plain didn't think to.. Dans Yellow/black 70 seems to have a much cleaner tail lense installation than Pantaras car. Though I don't know how they are attached.. Maybe he could let us know. The other cars I've only seen pics of so I don't know http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

Did the Local Brush do these cars ???

[55chevy]

Pantara and I were typing at the same time about these tail lights I guess and just had a good laugh about it on the phone.. I didn't know he put the screws in the lights and I never asked. They just looked to have been there so damn long I thought Joels boys did it that way.. He did tell me that the only thing other than that he has ever done to that car is remove the carb.. So other than the engine which was replaced I think 2 times due to the 2nd owner.. Pantara's White/Gold 70 is probably the most original and untouched GT in existance. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
Did the Local Brush do these cars ???

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no clue there..

[djunod]

Some of the Maco's used the '69 Firebird tail lights. Mine included (mine's a Motion kit, not Motion built).

I know that some of the Maco's were built in New Jersey for Joel. Perhaps some of the GT's were as well.

[69motionvet]

The tail light lens on the gold motion phase III GT are glued to the tail panel. The old light sockets are glued above that so that the light bulb reflects on the tail light lens. This allows you access to change the bulb. I agree the lens look like 68/69 firebird lights.
I'll look underneath the car and see if its the original tail panel or not and post later.

George

[Chevy454]

I'll rattle Darryl's cage and see if I can't get him to pop in with some info...

[Stefano]

I thought Joey Batafucco's dad was doing some of the body and paint for Joel?

[Pantera]

I don't think so. I think most were done by Butafco's body shop. If anybody knows his phone # I would like to chat with him about the cars.

Pantera

[MOTION1]

I will take a close look and let you guys know

Dan

[Pantera]

I am pretty sure that he did most of the bigger jobs. Gary did most of the extra special custom paint work. I have heard that he was not yet doing anything for Joel back in the eary days.

[JoeG]

I had contacted Gary about the PhaseIII GT Vettes--He said he did alot of them ,but not all of them----Custom Enterprises/Corvette Enterprises did the early ones---Thanks Gary-- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[P3GT]

My car was last documented as a Phase III on April 6,1970 with Motion in house service records. It was purchased from Motion on June 16,1970 as a Phase III GT.
I have pictures of the car, after the wreck, still as a Phase III with gold stripe and Torque Thrust wheels. The damage was limited mostly to the fiberglass tail light panel. The original 427 blew about a month after the wreck damage was repaired. Approx. May of 1970. This gives a window of 1-6 weeks to be converted to a GT. Maybe two months.
As far as Joel Rosen is concerned, my car is a real original documented Phase III GT, and his is the only opinion that matters to me. My thought is that it was owned, built and sold by Motion as a Phase III GT.
The car mentioned that burnt was actually parked next to another car that caught fire and the fire spread to the GT. This happened before the car was delivered to the customer so a duplicate car was built to fulfill the order. This is the same highly optioned yellow and black car Joel bought from Warner Brothers and restored a few years back.
My tail lights have six individual pieces of red plastic bonded to the rear panel and has the stock Corvette tail light housings crudely mounted to the frame about 4-5 inchs behind the plastic.
I wasn't old enough to drive when these cars were built and never lived in the northeast so everything I know about these cars is through research. I'm still not sure about the figure of 10 cars, and would not automaticly discount a car just because it turns up as number 11. I wasn't fortunate enough to be at the reunion when Joel was there so if he said definately 10.. then ten it is.
Hope this helps!
Darryl

[djunod]

What Joel says one time may not jive with another time or reality... I talked with him on the phone once and wrote down things as he said them... he told me things that I've since found to not be true... for example he said that Ray's Manta Ray was the only one he built, when we know that he built 3 of them. He also said that he built 3 Maco's, when there is evidence of 6.

[Pantera]

Darrel,

Great to hear from you. I have always wondered about your car. There are just a few pic of the car that I have seen and I have to say I love the colors.

I hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions about your car.

Was it always blue? So you are saying it came from Joel blue with a Gold stripe?

Your discription of the taillights sounds a great deal like my '70 that came from Joel. If they would have been a little brighter perhaps then you may not have gotten hit from behind. I know mine are not too easy to see when they are lit up.

I love the 200-S wheels you put on it. I have a set just like them that I used to run on my car way back when.


Please email me sometime so I can have a way to get in touch with you. I would love to chat on the phone sometime about the cars if you don't mind.

Pantera

[P3GT]

Pantera,

The 200S rims were on the car when I purchased it in 1988. I'm pretty sure they were put on it in 1970 by Motion when it was converted to a GT.

The original color is Lemans Blue and the Gold stripe was added to that when it was a Phase III. From the pictures it looks like it had Inglewood tires with the T.T. rims.

When I bought the car in 1988 it had just been repainted about a year or two before, but it was repainted faithfully to the way it was. So when it was converted to a GT it was changed from Blue/Gold to Blue/white. The shade of Blue is the only thing I'm not sure of.

By the way I need a set of mint original 200s center caps if anybody has some.

Pantera check your P.M.

[Pantera]

Blue and gold sound kinda neat together to me. I have to say that I sure do like the blue and white better.

Of course your color of Blue is one of my fav colors.

I remember when the 200S wheels first came out in 69 so that would be about right if they came on your car. I remember ordering them for a '68 Blue 400 hp cpe that I had at that time. I never heard of Motion until the Aug of 69 article came out on the newstand. I must have read it at least 3 time s right there in the store. I remember that they made me buy the magazine instead of letting me read it all afternoon. Man am I glad that I did. I would never have thought I would someday own the car on the cover though.

I think there is a chance that another one may pop up one of these days. I only hope that I get to live long enough to see all of them restored and together at a show someday.

Thanks for the PM. Talk to you tomorrow.

Pantera

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
The original color is Lemans Blue and the Gold stripe was added to that when it was a Phase III. From the pictures it looks like it had Inglewood tires with the T.T. rims.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Darryl. Glad you're here. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif The only thing we knew about your car was from the story on the monthly feature page. Does your car have the stock rear window or the GT slanted window? Thats been the biggest question since there isn't any real definitive pics of the rear top view of your car anywhere I can find online.. Can you post the old pics of it you have? I'd love to see how it used to look http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[P3GT]

Ed

It has the slanted GT window. In fact it has the complete GT body package, including the GT gas filler which you might not be able to see in the pics. The old pics of it were graciously sent to me by the original owner. All four as it was in 1969 as a Phase III. Two before the wreck and two of the wreck. Let me just clarify here, the wreck was when the car was sitting at a red light and someone didn't stop and hit it in the rear. Maybe 30-40 mph. The car was still drivable and it was mostly cosmetic damage. I'll have to get help posting them. If I can get it done I will.

Darryl

[Chevy454]

Darryl: if ya need to, email them to us and I'll post 'em for ya...

[55chevy]

Thanks for clearing that up Darryl.. I could have sworn it did by straining my eyes and adjusting the contrast on the pics I have of it. If you got others you can share I'd sure like to see those too. Can't ever see too many pics of any of these cars http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[MOTION1]

Ed-

Sorry I am so late in posting... this is a good view of the GT tail lights you have been discussing.

Dan

[55chevy]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif