ZZ code on 1969 Camaro Z/28 trim tag

[Speedrx]

Has anyone ever heard of a ZZ code on a 1969 Camaro?

Camaro (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=45200360 51&rd=1)

[DarrenX33]

Plenty of info in the auction about the car. The most interesting part is the trim tag and NO picture of it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

May be one of those questions that never gets answered if it is the real tag...

[JChlupsa]

theres one just small

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/116764-ZZ69trimtag.jpg

[DarrenX33]

Ah. Sorry I'm a little off today. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Mr. T]

I believe that one of the employees at Coast to Coast is a member here.

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
May be one of those questions that never gets answered if it is the real tag...

[/ QUOTE ]

So, is it the real tag? Anybody know for sure?

[Mark_C]

Its a real tag, the ZZ is done from behind, but it wasn't done on the same machine that did the rest of the trim tag data. The font is a little taller than the rest, and there was no provision in the tag machine to place characters in that location. The ZZ letters aren't as crisp as the rest of the tag info suggesting it was done either before or after the rest of the tag data was stamped on another fixture or by hand. Don't know what it means or when it was done.

In case you need a bigger image:
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/116808-tag_9N580022_NOR222631_X33_ZZ.jpg

[MosportGreen66]

Its an added JL-8 car too.
"The car was fitted with a very expensive JL8 brake package"

Interesting color... Endura bumper looks good! Vinyl top -- Killer on a maroon car!

No mention of documentation (that I can see) and with all the added options (X-ram, headers, flowmaster, JL-8) how do we know which factory appearing options are original to the car or restoration add ons?

The other thing I do not understand. Why are some engine parts dated late 69 (12/18/69) and others dated 1968? Typo??

[DarrenX33]

Mark, if it is stamped from behind then the letter "ZZ" is backwards? What sense would this make? Not really a letter then.. Just curious. Unless the stamp from behind was meant to be seen from the front of the tag.

[Mark_C]

Wouldn't be anymore backwards than all the other characters on the tag, as they are all stamped from behind. They were stamped into the back of the tag, meaning they are raised up on the front, just like all the other characters except the letters are a different size.

[DarrenX33]

God that's twice today. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I better sit back and watch for the rest of the day. Sorry Mark.

[Kurt S]

Darren,
That is a good point. That means it wasn't stamped by standard stamps or it would be backwards.

[Mark_C]

If you have a metal tag designed to be read from the front and you are making an impression in it from the rear using a digit or character, you are making an exact copy of that digit or character. So all the characters in the tag machine are normal, think of the trim tag as a paper credit card receipt (back in the day) and the trim tag machine as the old credit card machine. You put your credit card under the reciept and the machine rolls across it and makes an impression of your card in the reciept. All the info transferred over to the receipt by the raised letters on your card is perfectly legible on the paper copy (or the trim tag). If you were printing from the front you would need reversed characters, like they used to use when printing newspapers. You also would need to arrange the direction of the reversed stamps so that they read right to left (ie they would be legible in a mirror).

If you are stamping number in the surface of a material that is designed to be read from the same side, you need reversed characters like those used in the egg and gang stamps, used to place the partial VINs and engine suffix codes on the firewall and engine blocks.

[Kim_Howie]

Mark, think your last part over a little bit.

[Kurt S]

That's correct Mark. Most stamps are designed to read from the same side they stamp, ie they are reversed so that they stamp a surface 'unreversed'. This is the typical stamp.

It's atypical to have a unreversed stamp like this tag was stamped with. I don't have any stamps around like that in my pile of tools....
That was my only point.

[Mark_C]

I did think it over. Heres the engine gang stamp holder used to place the partial VIN and or the engine assembly codes on these cars. Note the characters (no the image is not reversed)
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/13522/EngStamper.JPG

I guess if you consider reversed stamp characters the ones people would have in their tool box, and "normal" character stamps would be the rare ones then it would appear unlikely someone made these Z's in their garage.

[Kim_Howie]

Never mind http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Kurt S]

I think the 'normal' stamps are rarer, but they do exist. But I doubt you can buy them at your local hardware store. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kurt

[x44d80]

Kurt or Mark, didn't the Pacer Camaro's used the "Z" character? Was it a larger font? I wonder if it came out larger because it was hand stamped? Also, I wonder if the guy who stamped it ordered the car and wanted a one off tag? Any other tags with unusal characters in them?

[rpoz11]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a real tag, the ZZ is done from behind, but it wasn't done on the same machine that did the rest of the trim tag data. The font is a little taller than the rest, and there was no provision in the tag machine to place characters in that location. The ZZ letters aren't as crisp as the rest of the tag info suggesting it was done either before or after the rest of the tag data was stamped on another fixture or by hand. Don't know what it means or when it was done.[ QUOTE ]

Ok, Ive seen 1969 Trans Am Trim Tags, Ive seen Z10 trim tags, Ive seen 70-up era Z28 trim tags, and of course the documented 04L Tags on 1969 Camaros....But I truly find this one hard to believe! If you are suggesting it was done on a seperate machine, Where and Why did this take place??? For all the tags Ive seen in over 25 years experience, Ive never seen this one ever! And they aren't even lined up correctly! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Someone here in the community should chime in here and give a final statement to this...please? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Z28DZ]

My 69 has black houndstooth and the tag reads TR X713; have no idea what the X is for if anything - error, slow day at the tag machine, etc.

[rpoz11]

On Your X713 on your trim tag, what is the date code from you tag?
Prior to this post, on the Z in the Z11 on trim tags, all that I have seen stay within the font size of the numericals on that line. The X codes Ive seen seem to move left and right of the NOR and on D80 cars, this seems to occur more often than I assumed!
Also, was looking at Stubbing's VN Pace Car and his P357 stamped on his trim tag is alike mine, where the P actually splits the N and the 3, and that continues for the 357 as well, splitting the spacing unlike most Norwood Tags Ive seen; The letter fonts and the numericals fall right under the letters above them, inline per se. Just caught my eye and I thought I'd toss this in.
And lastly, in that 67 Pace Car from LOS, that H that is up hi into the top row of beginning manufacturer's line of declaration.
I guess there must be more deviations with the strikings of these. From now on I will take more notice of this on the cars I look at! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mark_C]

I've got an image of an 08A X77D80 trim tag with a trim code of Z715. The font is identical to the rest of them on the tag in size and font, its just an extra character under the 9 in ST69. The TR code (the digits) usually starts one space to the right of the 9. It's a cowl tag from late in the 08A week (probably one of the last of that week), must have been a slow day on the cowl tag machine.