The Face of Greed

[GOAT72]

Witness...

The new face of Greed in the classic car hobby.

The virtual Satan of Obese and Inflated Prices

http://www.millionaire.com/millionaire_interviews/photo_jackson.jpg

Hello!
I'm "Mr. Greed"!
Wanna buy an LS6 Chevelle for only $250,000?

What was fun for us regular guys has now become an investor's pie-in-the-sky.

It was fun while it lasted.

I won't bother debating it. It's just my opinion.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[DarrenX33]

How could you say that? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Belair62]

He only puts them up for auction Mac....

[Mr70]

How do you know a Nigerian didn't Bid? http://www.yenko.net/attachments/119811-tongue.gif

[DarrenX33]

Wait a minute. He's lining his pockets in the meantime. Not just putting them up for auction. You can't say that when a car goes up in the bidding and they pan over to him and he's wooping it up he's overjoyed for the seller?

But whatever it is nothing anyone can do about it but move on.

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
He only puts them up for auction Mac...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I was thinking...he just puts up a place to host the show....if no-one bid it would die out...that dont like it's going to happen this year....holy smokes

[Belair62]

Darren...next week tell your boss you are going to work for free !!!

[DarrenX33]

Ok. I'll step aside on this one.

[Belair62]

No you can't...you have to work a week for free....

[DarrenX33]

Ok I'm sorry. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Belair62]

OK you just have to come here every night and help me put a 66 Chevelle back together for free then.

[Jeff H]

Yup, and forcing everyone to list their cars with no reserve so they'll still make the 16% commission even if the seller has to buy it back himself. Private sales will be the only way to deal with musclecars from this point on. Why waste money dragging a car out to BJ and have them hit you up for the commission when you have to buy it back so you don't lose big $$$.

[hvychev]

After seeing this fiasco I would never sell a car at Barrett-Jackson.

The funniest part is when people start to clap and go crazy including Craig Jackson when a guy blows his brains out and spends stupid money on a car. Personally I would back off once I heard everyone start to clap and go crazy...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[JoeG]

Frank---It kinda gets like the O.K. CORRAL, but instead of guns a blazing, they whip out their bankrolls---The fella who dropped the 3mil on that Historic Olds kinda got in the face of the competition and really IMO, caused a very costly payment--the bidding kinda stalled at 2mil-if you can call that stalling ---He didn't have to have a poker face , it seems he had carte-blanche---At least the car will be available to be viewed by the public---

[budnate]

guy did appear like he was sent on a mission to get some cars...I plan to a make trip over there and check it out this summer..its only a state away..if he was collecting stuff like this at any cost I cant wait to see what they put together.....

[njsteve]

I'd just love to know what little BS lines the "auction elves" are whispering into the ears of the bidders to get them to go the next step. Gotta be something like used car salesmen and the old "whattul-it-take-to-getchoo-inna-dis-car-today" kind of crap.

If some foolish bozo or bozette grabbed me by the shoulder with that fake friend garbage I would have quite a bit of fun with them (hopefully on camera of course) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I'd fall down and fake a major injury (kinda like Rodney Dangerfield at the end of Caddyshack - "ogh my arm I thinks it's broken"

[JoeG]

Bring a camera---

[Mr70]

I'd pay someone to punch that high Screaming auction elf....
Amazing how the Muscle Car atmosphere has changed out there in the last 8 years,since the first B/J Scottsdale auction.
Those were the days..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[hvychev]

[ QUOTE ]
Gotta be something like used car salesmen and the old "whattul-it-take-to-getchoo-inna-dis-car-today" kind of crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif been there......done that......!

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pay someone to punch that high Screaming auction elf....


[/ QUOTE ]

Amy Sparks makes certain she puts her hands all over the bidders, and when the auction's over they get a hug and then she bolts-off to the next bidder.
She's a glorified lap dancer.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Anyone who thinks Craig Jackson is "just the auctioneer" or "middleman" oughta take a look at the application page. It costs $350 just to register to bid. Then you need a letter from your bank or a special MBNA auction credit card.
This is NO auction for the common work-a-day guy.

They also have an open bar for the high rollers - nothing like a few good pops to loosen-up the wallet, eh?
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I did a Google on Jackson-- he's appeared in a bunch of zillionaire's magazines this past year - preaching the benefits of "alternative investing."

These dudes are driving up the prices on our hobby.
Now, for example, you can't buy a basket case Challenger R/T 440 from a barn sale, because they'll want $15-20K for it!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Watch the market for '73-'77 GM A & F bodies over the next few years. They're cheap now, but the high-end auction boys are gonna wreck THAT too.

Mac

[zmanrc]

Funny satan picture though LOL

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Amy Sparks makes certain she puts her hands all over the bidders, and when the auction's over they get a hug and then she bolts-off to the next bidder.
She's a glorified lap dancer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it be great if someone slipped a dollar bill in her belt after he won the high bid? Is there anyone there we know, who can do that today??? I'll even pitch in the $1 bill. Hell, I'll match whatever bill (except Bill Clinton) you slip to her and donate it this site. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[GRB]

Yep, that open bar pays off in spades...just like Vegas. Whiskey loosens up babes and bidders....and both end up getting screwed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Ah, come on guys! The poor guy is only making 8% Off you and the other guy each WOW!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[whitetop]

[ QUOTE ]
Watch the market for '73-'77 GM A & F bodies over the next few years. They're cheap now, but the high-end auction boys are gonna wreck THAT too.


[/ QUOTE ]

The decal cars of the '70's are already taking off. The average guy can no longer afford a '55-65K z-28 so that's where they are heading.
77-79 Roadrunners type cars are getting hot.as with Pontiac Can ams, etc etc

[427TJ]

Greed? No one forces someone to sell their car at B-J. Craig Jackson's rules are up front for all to read beforehand. If you don't like his terms then sell it elsewhere. The greed is on both sides if you want to use that term. Greedy sellers want to cash-in for the max amount on their cars and Craig Jackson is their 'enabler.' If you had to haggle the price of a car you were selling in your driveway you probably wouldn't get as much for it as you could at B-J. I guarantee you that not one seller will ever tell a buyer: "You know what? 150,000 is just too much for this car so I'm going to let you have it for 100,000." C'mon guys! Craig Jackson is a business man just like millions of others. I think what's at play here is the emotion we all invest in our "hobby." Bidders yell out with all their emotion if they want a car bad enough. Don't agree? Look at Ferrari Guy bidding on the 3-million '54 Olds concept car. He was crying after the hammer dropped! So, that same emotion trickles down to the lowly TV viewers (like most of us) who will never be able to drop 155K on a '67 435 Corvette. It irks us that we can't just go out and buy one for what we think it should be worth.

There isn't one person on this forum who wouldn't hold out for as much as they could get for their car, especially at a place like B-J. In one breath we lament escalating prices, an in the next breath we expect to get similar money for our own car when we sell it. Craig Jackson isn't in this to be nice, he's in it to make money and he doesn't hide that. Don't like it? Don't play.

[Jeff H]

I think they said there were around 900 cars willing to sell at no reserve and 400 cars people wanted to sell with a reserve. They(BJ) chose to only allow the 900 cars with no reserve in the auction. So that's where the greed part comes in. I wonder how many sellers had to buy back their own car and pay the 16% commission on top of it. But it sure seems like it's more bogus cars, clones and street rods vs real documented musclecars.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think they said there were around 900 cars willing to sell at no reserve and 400 cars people wanted to sell with a reserve. They(BJ) chose to only allow the 900 cars with no reserve in the auction. So that's where the greed part comes in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps, but it's still Craig Jackson's show and if he wants to put on a good show then cars must sell. Yeah, it'd be nice to "troll" a car at B-J with no intention of selling just to see what it might be worth, but again, Craig Jackson isn't in this for trollers, he's in it to make a buck. Refusing the Reserve cars is his way of separating the wheat from the chaff and he doesn't hide that fact. As a pure business venture I don't blame him one bit.

Morality? Well yes, you could morally attack Craig Jackson all day long for wanting to make money but who among us doesn't like to make money? If you want to get on a moral high-horse then offer to work for free during the month of February. Your boss would jump on that deal, wouldn't he? Good business people aren't in the morals business and that's why the term "business ethics" usually results in snickers and replies of "yeah, right" from the crowd. If Craig Jackson did charity work he'd go broke.

It's a damn shame that I can't go out and buy the muscle car of my dreams for $5,000, but I sure as hell wouldn't sell that same car for any less than the maximum amount that I could get for it. Life is just unfair.

Is this horse dead yet?

[budnate]

......... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/120014-dedhorse.gif

[All American Racer]

I think what he's guilty of is commercializing the hobby we love. It's now sheik for rich guys to own a muscle car or two and guys like us are left in the dust drooling over pictures of cars we'll never own. JMHO

[MagicRatt]

[ QUOTE ]
I think what he's guilty of is commercializing the hobby we love. It's now sheik for rich guys to own a muscle car or two and guys like us are left in the dust drooling over pictures of cars we'll never own. JMHO

[/ QUOTE ]


I would agree with this and also add that these are the same cars that "we" gave up on and sold 20 years ago, not realizing that someday some rich and wealthy types would come along and snatch it right away. I owned my fair share of muscle cars over the last 24 years not knowing that I would see the same cars bringing in this kind of cash. Kinda gives me mixed emotions......

[Chris396]

There is nothing we can do about the prices. It's nice to know that the car in the garage could help pay for the garage in a pinch. I will say the hobby was a bit more fun when the prices were cheaper. I miss seeing the cars on the road with owners who weren't so anal and scared to drive. It's like going to see a good band in a small or medium sized club before they become really popular and the "me toos" get on the bandwagon.

[Chris396]

I'll also say that that is one reason to check the Supercar Reunion for anyone who hasn't. The cars get driven and the atmosphere is very relaxed without people worried about getting a plastic trophy. Events like this still make the hobby a lot of fun.

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]

It's a damn shame that I can't go out and buy the muscle car of my dreams for $5,000, but I sure as hell wouldn't sell that same car for any less than the maximum amount that I could get for it. Life is just unfair.

Is this horse dead yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,
When you're selling a car do you charge $350 per viewer to LOOK at it? Do you make others stand 150 ft. back and pay $100 to LOOK at it?
Do you have trained monkeys in the crowd who have been taught how to say the right things to increase your buyers' enthusiasm and heighten the emotion around the sale of your car?
Do you put it on a stage with bright lights and celebs in order to DRIVE the bids to an unbelievably inflated price?

Do you have a bunch of cheerleaders, including "Satan of the Car Hobby," screaming for the potential buyers to up their bids?

It's a bunch of smoke and mirrors, it's destroying our hobby and NO, the horse has not been beat to death because there are guys who refuse to believe it's "OK" to get as much as you can for a car.

This is why MOST of us have "asking prices." We try to sell our cars at fair market value.

How do we NORMALLY treat scheisters on eBay who try to sell cars at inflated value?
We make fun of them and call them crooks.
Or don't we?

Did you see the Dec. '04 issue of Hot Rod Magazine? (On Page 20 under "Royally Ripped Off".)
A guy in Omaha paid an elderly woman $200 for her '31 Ford, an Evinrude outboard and a Hiawatha Bike.
The guy had gloated over his windfall deal, but the reader's took issue with him and the fact that he took advantage of an 80+ yr old woman. They encouraged him to go back and give her a fair payment for her items!

Sure, this hobby is about our cars, but it's also about respect for one another. I have never been to any car shows or meets where the classic cars guys weren't simply the nicest, fairest people around.

So, isn't paying too little and being duped into paying too much EQUALLY as wrong? Isn't "honesty" a part of what we all desire in our hobby?

How do you think our hobby will look in 10 years if a bunch of snooty, self-indulgent, over-bearing, swingin' dicks - who've never turned a wrench in their entire lives - start trailer-queening their cars into our meetings?

It will become more and more presumptuous and cold... and I, for one, will protest this until the day I die.

This is a hobby of "good guys."
Not for a bunch of overpaid stockbrokers who will look down their noses at us as they take all their plastic trophies home.
(No offends to stockbrokers here, just an example!)

Again, though... this is ONLY my opinion!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Mac
..waiting to be slapped...
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
When you're selling a car do you charge $350 per viewer to LOOK at it? Do you make others stand 150 ft. back and pay $100 to LOOK at it?
Do you have trained monkeys in the crowd who have been taught how to say the right things to increase your buyers' enthusiasm and heighten the emotion around the sale of your car?
Do you put it on a stage with bright lights and celebs in order to DRIVE the bids to an unbelievably inflated price?

Do you have a bunch of cheerleaders, including "Satan of the Car Hobby," screaming for the potential buyers to up their bids?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mac, I think you're missing my point. Craig Jackson isn't making anyone play by his rules against their will . Again, if a seller didn't like the way the B-J is run then it's up to the seller not to participate. Think of the radio dial: If you don't like what's on then select another station. Can't find anything worth listening to? Switch it off. It's your choice whether you sit and listen or not.

I'm not necessarily defending B-J rules here. Yeah, I can see why some guys don't like Craig Jackson's auction hysterics for helping make our beloved cars unaffordable to us but all he's doing is taking advantage of normal market forces and then adding a little showmanship. High prices for muscle cars were unavoidable and Craig Jackson is merely the smart businessman who saw it coming and started the auction craze.

The Super Bowl is next weekend and one team is gonna' win and the other team is gonna' lose. Place your bets wisely!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Mac...people go to get the most $$$ for their car...it's a spectacle...much like going to Disneyworld etc....other than a few crazy things, a lot of cars were sold for what we would consider market value IMO...today was a pretty cool day to watch...less hubbubb and just regularish people buying cars for a decent price...the 58 convert was beautiful...100k...a lot of the cars that sold could not be duplicated if you went to restore one yourself...I'm glad I got my good stuff a few years ago...you can still buy beautiful Chevelles,GTO's,Road Runners,GTX's and that stuff for reasonable money...the very rarest and top HP cars are expensive but the last time I looked out in the yard...they weren't growing on trees !!!

[Jeff H]

Wrong, BJ is making people play by their rules. 900 cars with no reserve and 400 cars with a reserve. They chose not to offer the 400 cars on the auction block with a reserve. And now that quite a few people got hit pretty bad by listing with no reserve I think next year more people won't be willing to take that risk. It will turn into an auction of clones and fakes selling for $100K plus. I think most people here probably wouldn't list their car at BJ with no reserve when they could sell it for the same amount by word of mouth and not pay the fees. It's a business plain and simple. We try to figure out what the market is doing and it appears BJ is making it more cloudy. But what should we care, we still have our cars! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[mike s]

all sh*t aside barrett jackson does not have the best reputation and in my opinion in that picture craig jackson does look like a huge snake/crook

just my 2 cents mike

[GRB]

It's not always a pretty picture. But it IS the free mkt doing what it does best. Matching willing sellers and willing buyers at a price both MUST agree to. We love it when we are the seller and question it when we are the buyer. That's what makes us human. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[DaJudge]

They put on a good show. The only issue I see is that anyone who has a car that resembles one that went across the blocks at B/J and did a good number, they now believe that their car is worth the same amount. Private sellers should remember the sellers have a lot of expenses to get that 3 minutes of fame. Subtract out the shipping costs to get it there, hotel, meals etc, travel, and fees to get into the auction plus the 8% to B/J as you can see there are some real expenses that need to be subtracted out to get to your real price or profit. Your car really needs to do a moon shot to make it worth while.

[Keith Tedford]

Not to mention the cost of the restoration done on most of these cars. I'll bet many would be lucky to break even. It would scare a lot of people if they knew the actual costs involved in a top notch resto. The cars that are big dollar today were probably out of reach of most people in '69 as well when you looked at price AND insurance. When I bought our COPO Chevelle I didn't have to climb over a line of people to get to the front of the line. Same with the COPO Camaro that Nurse Chev-Olds had. It sat for quite a while. I was just fortunate to have a decent paying job and the bank was friendly. Last year we finished a '72 Lemans Sport 400 4 speed car. It has all the good muscle car options and gets more attention than our L78 Chevelle. Take the blinders off folks. There are lots of very nice alternatives out there, and the prices can be very attractive. As in the late '80s, it is a good time for investors to be in the Muscle Car business and they are. On the brighter side, it puts a lot of money back into circulation. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong, BJ is making people play by their rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the seller decides to play

If you don't like the rules then don't play the game. If you think Jackson is a crook then don't give him your money. But if you get "greedy" and want to take a chance at getting more money for your car at auction then go ahead and pay to play the auction game. If you pay to play at B-J then you must play by their rules.

[P.J.]

Hey Kieth
If you are getting more looks from your 72 Lemans
maybe you will sell the copo chevelle for a reasonable price EH!
Suprss70 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[P.J.]

I recently fully restored my L78 70 chevelle to the build sheet. I have had this car for almost 24 years and this project became an obsession to restore. I spent huge huge dollars and 7 months of full time work spent on the car
to totaly restore it. Yes Part of the reason that it scost so much is that I threw away many of the origional parts from the car not realizing
at the time how valuable they would become. Many car buyers at he BJ auction neither have the time or the
skill to take a car and rebuild it so they buy it all done
by one of us. Just look at the prices of last year to this year.If you had money to invest in an HP car last year
and then sold at BJ you would have made a great return
on your money. NOt like your stocks Too few rare clasics cars for many new found clasic lovers. How do you stop it! build more clasic
origionals again from the car companies. Or ??????.
Lets start with a copo 1970 Nova black on black 4 speed
with no council, got to be a 427 or a L78 for $ 3600.00 Canadian EH!
suprss70 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Stuart Adams]

I don't know about you guys, but I thought alot of cars were sold way under the cost to restore, did you?

[Hylton]

What's with all this Craig Jackson bashing? No doubt Scottsdale is THE place to sell a car. No other event will net a seller that much money for a car. If after commissions, you have more in your pocket than if you had advertised in Hemmings, who cares what Craig puts in his pocket?

These guys who are in the business of buying and selling classic cars will always attract the huge money. Let's look at this on a smaller scale - I could have my RS/Z advertised for 50k and get 20 tire kickers and 5 guys who want to try and beat me down to 45k. Peter Klutt (Legendary Motor Car) comes along and buys it off me for 50k, puts it in his showroom with a 100k price tag and sells it in a month.

Wealthy people who are not nearly as knowledgeable as us look for someone they can trust. Like it or not, Craig Jackson is one of them.

Hylton

[Mr70]

What's with the Peter Klutt bashing? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
What's with the Peter Klutt bashing? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is that damn Graemlin holding the Mr70 or Rick sucks sign? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[SS427]

Hey! Clarify the "Rick sucks" sign before we get carried away here!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif
Rick #1 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Belair62]

I kind of like the chubby guy with no vowels in his name...Hnchw or something like that....gazunteit

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I kind of like the chubby guy with no vowels in his name...Hnchw or something like that....gazunteit

[/ QUOTE ]

....you gotta ask yourself, do you need a website like this? Naaaaaah

But do you want a website like this? Ya....you do. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[DarrenX33]

This is what comes up when I type "Rick sucks".

http://www.usask.ca/psychology/forensic/PhotosPsychJam/PsychJam2004Photo2.jpg

[Belair62]

Hylton...you NEED thos place....Hnchw very much ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Motion Camaro]

[ QUOTE ]
......... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/120014-dedhorse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif --- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif---- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif---- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif---- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Canucklehead]

Consider this; and im sure many of you could agree, when you are in the market for a collector car of any kind the hunt for said car has alot of expenses attached. First of all you have endless hours of serching for the right car, and most of the time it's no where near you so you have to make travel arangements that may include flights, accomadations, rental cars, food, etc. Than when you see it you may find it's not what you wanted or not the right price and move on. You may have to do this several times before you find the right one. Once you do than it's the transportation, taxes, insurance, etc. that comes out of your pocket by the time you get it home. Than there is the enevitable WRONG things done to the car that you have to modify to your personal preferrences. So by the time you find that 100K car you might be into the car for more like $112k. So is that what it's worth now??, or just to you?
OR
You could go down to the auction where the sellers bring the cars to you. There you have a wide selections of many cars to choose from with some of the due dilligents work already done for you. The owners are there for you to talk to and compare cars, the transport, insurance, and various other car related companys are all right there, hotels, food, refreashments, etc are all right there, and if the right car is not there you only have to wait a few months for the next auction to come up. So you have to pay some added expenses for someone to set that up for you and he does this in a fun and entertaining package that makes an EVENT out of it for you and all your friends to boot, in the long run you would have spent that money anyways.
So whats the big deal???, if you don't see the big picture than don't go.

[Hylton]

You gotta ask yourself........do you need this thread to keep going? Naaaaah.

But do you want this thread to keep going? Naaaaah!

[Motion Camaro]

[ QUOTE ]
You gotta ask yourself........do you need this thread to keep going? Naaaaah.

But do you want this thread to keep going? Naaaaah!

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue">THANK http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif YOU !!!

ooops, I just added another ... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif ... SORRY </font>